Tesla Is Getting Absolutely Destroyed Right Now

[Tom of Temecula]

Tesla is having a horrible year. The Elon Musk-led company's future is uncertain as ever, CNN reports. As we approach the end of Q1, Tesla has remained the worst-performing stock on the S&P 500 for over a month now. The company is down almost 32 percent since January, hitting a ten-month low — and the forecast for the rest of the year isn't looking much better. According to a scathing new report by Wells Fargo analyst Colin Langan, Tesla is a "growth company with no growth."

Per Langan, Tesla's growth is expected to remain flat this year and start to decline in 2025. That's due to a number of factors, including a surge of competitors, particularly from China, eating up larger shares of the global EV market and undercutting the company's offerings.
Tesla is also struggling to keep up with orders, while resale values are dropping considerably.

Some of the company's woes also feel decidedly self-inflicted. The company's vehicles, for example, are among some of the worst depreciating vehicles on the market right now, making them a terrible investment — the polar opposite of what Musk predicted back in 2019, when he claimed the value of the company's cars would actually increase as their self-driving capabilities matured.

Meanwhile, Musk has been accused by shareholders of abandoning the company and has spent a lot of his time on X-formerly-Twitter spreading disinformation and furthering racist tropes.

https://futurism.com/tesla-is-getting-absolutely-destroyed

[marble falls]

1. An example of someone knowing little enough about auto engineering to believe he knew everything.

[Baitball Blogger]

23. He is a perfect example of the Moi personality disorder.

Picture a meeting of managers at an Awards ceremony for highest sales. He's the guy who prances to the podium and says it was Moi who made it happen, forgetting all of his subordinates who actually did the work.

[rubbersole]

24. A little orange spray tan and a pile of indictments...

...and add 75lbs - TSF 2!

[SergeStorms]

42. And the State of California....

who gave Musk over $600 million in clean air credits, which he sold (all the time falsifying Tesla's data to earn those credits) when Tesla was struggling to get off the ground.
Then he stiffs California and moves his entire operation to Texas. Abbott gave him extravagant tax incentives, and Musk pays Texas back by polluting southern Texas with his Space junk.
Yeah, Musk is a super guy. 🤥 If you see him poking around your area of the world, RUN AWAY!

[A HERETIC I AM]

105. What do you mean by "moves his entire operation to Texas"?

Are you saying the plant in Fremont doesn't build cars anymore, or the Giga Factory outside Sparks, NV has closed it's doors?

He didn't move his entire operation to Texas, not by a long stretch.

I'm not a huge fan of the man, but come on, let's try and stay honest here.

[SergeStorms]

115. Mea Culpa.

[Roy Rolling]

144. Be Honest Where Modern Obscene Wealth is Created

Where? Generous government tax welfare ordinary people don’t qualify for, and leverage from financial markets. Without financial market-created assets nobody would lend Musk a dime to fly a human to Mars and destroy Twitter—just because he can. He played the 2023 game well–and that game is Frankenstein capitalism. He’s a freak, not a genius…unless someone like Trump is considered genius for being a moron who inflames the hate of deplorables.

Here’s Musk’s Tesla, one more collapse away from becoming Chrysler stock. And the stock market is where the big boys and girls keep score, not the Fox-in-the-henhouse News.

[MichMan]

152. Have you invested in buying a lot of it on margin to sell short?

If you are convinced it will collapse, you should buy a significant amount on margin and sell short to make a killing.

Looks like it has a long way to go before it reaches 2019 levels based on the graph

[Roy Rolling]

154. First...

You don’t buy to sell short.

And yes, I’ve made a lot of money on the short side of overblown stocks like Tesla and indices. But selling near the top is the key, chasing prices at the end of a move is not where I trade.

[MichMan]

156. I used the word buy, but you are actually borrowing on margin hoping for a short position.

You promise to buy "x" number of shares by a certain time at a certain price. When it plummets, you buy immediately to satisfy the margin call and pocket all the profit.

Of course if it went up instead, you have to buy at the high price to satisfy the margin call and thus take a big loss. It is a gamble either way, but if you are certain the stock is going to plummet, you can make out big. You seemed pretty certain it was going to fall a lot further, so that is why I asked.

[Roy Rolling]

159. Yes...borrowed

But I’m not certain of any price move, my apologies if I appear less than humble. Tesla stock may be subject to gyrations, my comments reflect my lack of confidence in Tesla’s CEO.

He’s a welfare queen not a captain of industry. Of course, that’s only my opinion. If keeping score right now, the welfare queen is winning the game under the current rules. My opinion is the rules have been changed to accommodate people like Musk, Putin, and Trump.

They create no wealth as capitalists, they suck wealth from the system like parasites.

[yardwork]

2. Tesla's eccentric sales model is built on an assumption of trust.

Elon Musk's increasingly erratic, obnoxious behavior can't create a sense of confidence in the companies he leads. With other EV options available, there's no reason for most buyers to choose Tesla.

[Justice matters.]

28. He's a "lucky" punk freak who benefited, in part, from government subsidies.

The "freeloading" Socialist programs and sheer luck put him where he is.

Not a surprise from a Trump supporter...



That guy doesn't really know what he's doing in terms of running businesses successfully.

[former9thward]

38. The 2nd richest person in the world got there by "luck"?

And doesn't know how to run a business? I imagine there are tens of millions of business owners who wish they did not know how to run a business...

[thesquanderer]

66. Luck, smooth talk, and knowing how to game the system go a long way. n/t

[kcr]

71. I'd call being born into a wealthy family luck

to start with.

[ShazzieB]

79. Exactly.

I was just about to mention that. Dude was born with a silver spoon the size of a shovel in his mouth.

[Lucky Luciano]

142. Many millions of people started with similar wealth as Musk.

He definitely outperformed them all by orders of magnitude for the most part if you use wealth acquired as your benchmark for success.

[Roy Rolling]

145. Too Big to Fail

The world is one financial recession away from finding out what that means when multiple oligarchs compete in the same game of “murder” all smaller competitors.

Musk isn’t a capitalist competing in free markets, he’s a plutocrat seeking to torch his competition. He won’t go hungry if his business loses billions like they do, a small business owner’s kids don’t eat when Frankenstein capitalism wipes them out.

[Lucky Luciano]

149. Sure, he's a monumental asshole who deserves his comeuppance...

…but I don’t see him in the too big to fail category because the failure of his companies (unlike all the major banks in 2008) won’t torch the entire country.

As much of an asshole as he is, it’s hard to just simply assign his exponential growth in wealth to being born with a silver spoon in his mouth. If that’s all it took, there would be many more like him.

[TimeToGo]

83. Well, luck and a lack of shame

[BannonsLiver]

87. You probably won't find a lot eloon fans here.

Try Reddit’s r/bros

[MurrayDelph]

127. No, he became the "2nd richest person in the world" all by his own action

He became the richest person by luck.

[LudwigPastorius]

106. Emo Elon...

LOL!

[OMGWTF]

37. I've been a happy Chevy Volt driver for ten years

and used to aspire to own a Tesla Model S, but Eloon ruined the brand for me. NFW will I ever buy one now. I read about a new Toyota EV that goes 900 miles and charges in ten minutes.

[former9thward]

41. That is years away, if ever.

EV companies are always promising great things "in the next few years". Those next few years never seem to get here.

Toyota Touts Solid State EVs With 932-Mile Range, 10-Minute Charging by 2027

The Japanese automaker says it has found a new material that will help commercialize the elusive, long-awaited solid state battery, but it's light on details.

https://www.pcmag.com/news/toyota-touts-solid-state-evs-with-932-mile-range-10-minute-charging-by

[OMGWTF]

63. It's all good. My Volt only has 36K miles on it, so I'm good for a while longer.

[SunSeeker]

131. One of the dumbest things Chevy ever did was discontinue the Volt. nt

[beaglelover]

47. One area where Tesla is far superior to their competitors is their supercharger network.

The other public charging networks are woefully inadequate. It will be years before they catch up to Tesla.

[Fritz Walter]

78. Maybe they should tell their car-owners

Because a lot of them sure seem to enjoy hogging the public car chargers, keeping them plugged in all-day long. Important distinction: their cars are compatible with the standard plug-in connector. However, the “super chargers” are compatible only with Tesla cars.

[Voltaire2]

101. Most of the us ev market is shifting to tesla

charging compatibility. Teslas network is open to non tesla vehicles. ‘Wrong plug’ is becoming a non issue.

[cab67]

120. This wasn't true for the Chevy Bolt we rented this past December and January.

[Quanto Magnus]

122. I have a Bolt, you are correct they have non-Tesla connector

However, GM will be offering an adaptor that owners will be able to get. I'm not sure when they will be available though.

I'm all for standardizing. It makes a whole lot more sense to have one connector type for cars.

[Voltaire2]

128. Right. Only newer vehicle models.

And I don’t know the timeframe.

[cab67]

140. This was a brand-new Bolt this past December.

[Voltaire2]

143. Ford and Gm have both announced nacs support.

Nacs being the tesla charging standard for the us and Canada

As I said I don’t know the timeframe.

[jmowreader]

88. Tesla fucked that up all by themselves

Yes, it used to be that if you wanted to use the Tesla Supercharger network you had to buy a Tesla.

After all the deals they’ve made with the other automakers that’s no longer the case. There are MANY Muskism-free EVs compatible with it now.

[orthoclad]

92. That quick-charge feature is dangerous; it places

a very high instantaneous load on the power grid. Imagine if millions of quick-charge cars plugged in at the same time. We'll have major grid failures.

Privatize the profit, socialize the cost.

Hydrogen fuel cells would be a better solution to the fill-her-up-now habit.

[NickB79]

99. It also shortens battery life if overused

Quick chargers should be secondary to slow charging overnight at home. Using quick chargers exclusively has been known to wreck Teslas, like this guy who used it twice per day:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brookecrothers/2023/11/12/experts-address-excessive-use-of-tesla-supercharger-after-model-3-dies/?sh=10f67e24473c

[Historic NY]

113. Dealers should hve been required to have installed chargers or a charging network

Gas stations sell gas who sells charging. In my town units are popping up at historic sites and selective housing complexes.

[joshcryer]

116. Tesla's problem is that half the cost of the car is the battery.

And they are a pain in the ass to replace. And they don't let third parties work on them easily. All of that whole Apple-style reliant architecture just kills them as cars worth buying long term. In theory they should outlast any gas driven vehicle by decades if not longer (properly taken care of). But the batteries will always need replacing.

Nevermind Musk himself just trashed the companies image by being a dumbshit right winger. He could have still been a right winger and been fine, but he had to announce his stupid right winger shit.

[Biophilic]

3. Saw my first Tesla truck in person a few days ago.

I just sort of stared at it. So amazingly ugly and the so called cargo area yeah right that’s not going to be useful. Maybe a bale of hay, two if you squeeze them in. Good grief.

[dutch777]

13. Other than exotic (I think ugly) styling, I wondered if it would actually function as a truck. Guess not.

Will quickly be in the pantheon of not so great automotive ideas parked next to the DeLorean. At least the DeLorean was cool with the gull wing doors.

[Irish_Dem]

29. I recently posted the same thoughts.

Two weeks ago I rode in a Tesla car for the first time. A friend of mine bought one.

I immediately noticed how basic and unattractive the interior appointments are
for a luxury vehicle.

Another friend owns an Audi, a luxury vehicle which is stunning in its interior.
I would take an Audi over a Tesla any day.

[donte]

75. A common

Complaint about the tesla. Too much plastic!

[Irish_Dem]

96. I think my Honda CRV has a nicer interior.

[KidContra]

90. Was it a Model S or an X?

Model 3 and Y are not sold as luxury vehicles nor priced as such. A Hyundai Kona EV starts at ~$33k and the tesla Y at ~$36k. A similar SUV Audi etron is like $55k so yeah luxury.

[Irish_Dem]

98. It must have been the budget Tesla.

I will find out.

I cannot imagine this was the high end model.

The only thing noticeable was the big nav screen.

But I was also shocked that the nav was not voice activated, addresses had to be typed in
on the keyboard. My 2019 Honda CRV has a voice activated nav system.
I was just SMH the whole time.

[Rstrstx]

123. No, Tesla has a voice activated navigation system

On my Model 3 you just press in on the right scroll wheel on the steering wheel and say “Navigate to (fill in the blank)”.

[Irish_Dem]

125. That is really weird.

Maybe the owner did not know about the voice activated system.
Or how to use it.

We had to pull over a couple of times so the driver could type in the addresses of
the locations we were headed for. It was time consuming and dangerous I thought.
To keep pulling over to get directions.

I was trying to be polite, so did not ask why an expensive ass car did not have a voice
activated NAV like my 2019 Honda.

If I am in the car again with the owner, I will ask about the voice activated system nav.

[moniss]

108. I agree with you about the interiors

and yes Audi is way ahead of the game compared to some others.

[Irish_Dem]

111. A friend of mine has an Audi.

The interior is amazing. The indirect lighting, the plush leather seating.
We were going to a restaurant to eat and I told her just to bring me a doggy bag
I was going to stay in the car.

[ShazzieB]

81. Yeah, calling that thing a truck is ridulous.

And don't even get me started on the "hideous" part!

[Voltaire2]

102. While Plutobrat had Tesla focus on that POS

instead of a low cost vehicle, BYD built the low cost vehicle instead. Globally BYD is positioned to capture a lot of the ev market. Domestically the block on ev credits for Chinese cars will shield Tesla for a while. The cybertruck was an idiotic mistake.

[Celerity]

117. The $10k Chinese EV that could blow away the competition.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=18783681

[moniss]

107. When I first saw it on that stage

years ago I gave it a nickname. The Tedsel. Those old enough to remember a certain previous boondoggle in the automotive world may appreciate that.

[druidity33]

146. Add one letter. Tedsela. nt.

[Rstrstx]

130. Me too, though I didn't think "ugly"

I thought more like, mmm, well it kind of looks like a giant kitchen appliance rolling down the road. Definitely interesting and a head turner, the pictures I’ve seen of ones wrapped in black matte look more attractive. For me it does most of what I would want a truck to do, though a pass-through from the bed to the back seat would have been excellent.

The one big drawback though is the current price. Tesla originally set out to build a truck that was cheaper and easier to manufacture, and that is not proving to be the case.

[True Dough]

137. What if it looked like this?

Any more endearing?

[Biophilic]

139. Yes it does. 😆

Although that looks like it has a lot more cargo space than the one I saw.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

4. Watch for the Egoloon to proclaim all it needs is to be renamed 'X'.

[dalton99a]

6. +1. X stands for golden

[erronis]

14. as in "golden showers"

Eloon's rainy days

[bucolic_frolic]

5. Internal combustion engine vehicles have legacy advantages

Availability of parts, trained personnel both dealership and private to service them, aftermarket parts, testing equipment. EV's are the new kid on the block and the expertise, equipment, and parts are tightly held. Going to be that way for awhile.

[erronis]

15. And of course, much greater range

Especially in cold weather. They have to turn off their heaters in the winter.

Reminds me of my family's Corvair whose windshield wipers wouldn't work if it was raining....

[cayugafalls]

77. My old '96 dodge ram is easy to work on, has cheap parts and runs like a champ.

It is an Analog dinosaur and I love it because I can work on it.

I don't need a team of specialist to tell me I need a computer controller...

[SCantiGOP]

7. I wouldn't buy a $5 bill from Musk

If he were selling it for $2.99.

[Demovictory9]

129. Me either..thought he was a genius until the twitter thing atarted

Now i know hes a bigot racist sexist anti lgbt nut

[mahina]

136. Plus he didnt start Tesla. The two founders loathe him.

[MichMan]

151. What was Tesla's market value when they sold it vs what is it now?

Musk was the one in charge while it experienced a significant amount of growth.

[mahina]

155. Immaterial.

It’s lost what, 23% this year is it?

How many times has he said he founded Tesla? Dozens that I heard myself…that is a lie.

He is helping Putin against Ukraine and is a shitbag. In my opinion.

[MichMan]

157. According to the chart in post #144, the stock has gone up nearly 700% since 2019.

The fact that it went down 23% this year is a small blip. Clearly Tesla has done quite well since he was named CEO in 2008. In 2008 they delivered 147 cars and last year they produced 1.8 million. Just because you think he is a shitbag doesn't change that fact.

[mahina]

158. And a liar.

Bye now.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

8. This makes me smile

Link to tweet

[edisdead]

40. Why though?

We don’t actually want companies to fail. There are workers that mean more to the company than Musk does, who need jobs and their company is part ofnour economy. Rooting for and being pleased at the failure is moronic in my opinion. I even don’t want the mypillow guys company to fail because that effects a lot of workers here in MN.

[llmart]

54. Agree.

I think there's a lot of sour grapes re: Tesla cars because those people are bitter about it being out of reach in price for them. I'd rather see someone buy a Tesla than a big ass, gas guzzling Chevy Tahoe or Cadillac Escalade or Suburban. My son has owned a Tesla Model S for a decade and I've rode in it several times. There's been very little maintenance and he loves never having to go to a gas station. However we feel about Musk, he has generated lots of jobs in our country including through Space X.

[BannonsLiver]

84. Oh yeah, it's totally sour grapes

I mean it couldn’t possibly be that it’s because the guy that owns the company is a racist Bond villain and nut ball who runs his mouth on every subject imaginable, or the bad engineering, or the incidents, or the fact that they look the same every year with no real design changes with the styling. Nope, it’s just a bunch of jealous people who long for the day when they too can join the Tesla bro-hood and be made whole and until that happens they are resentful of other testicle tanning bros who drive these magical life affirming vehicles.

I’m case it’s needed

[ProfessorGAC]

62. The Stock Is Grossly Overvalued

Even with the fall in value (market cap) the total stock value is still >5x assets.
The excuse of course, is potential. But, Tesla is clearly in an early maturity phase & are mostly functioning in a durable goods sector. By contrast, GM has an asset base of $273 billion but a market cap of only $47 billion. That makes Tesla exhibiting 32x the business performance of GM.
Is it remotely reasonable to expect tesla will be 32 times the company? Oh, and GM had $80 billion more revenue.
No company in that sector or in any phase of corporate maturity has ever been at 5x assets in market value, and a year ago it was much higher than 5.
This is a market correction, still incomplete. Tesla dropping to s value more connected to financial performance does not mean corporate failure or lay-offs.
So, that concern doesn't seem warranted.

[edisdead]

74. None of that addresses what I said

Why do people desire to see a company of many workers fail because of one man? It is stupid.

[ProfessorGAC]

82. That Doesn't Address What I Said

I clearly stated that this market correction us not going to cause the company to fail or cost people their jobs.
As long as revenue continues to exceed cost, the company will be successful, people will keep their jobs & the only people stung will be those that bought a clearly overvalued equity.
In fact, I specifically addressed your point.
People can root for the stock value to drop biting into Musk's net worth without worrying about people losing their income.

[GregariousGroundhog]

85. Agreed

Tesla earned $4.30 per share in 2023 and is current priced at $163.57. That's a price/earnings ratio of 38, whereas the S&P averages a price/earnings ratio of about 23. Analysts expect Tesla's EPS to fall to slightly above $3/share in 2024. While not preferable, it doesn't look like they are about to run into any cashflow issues.

[orthoclad]

112. There is plenty of demand for

experienced EV workers and engineers. The demand for labor is there.

Droll thought: since all of the Mux enterprises are dependent on the public dollar, should we nationalize them and then provide better working conditions and better quality control? Then we won't privatize space.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

135. Tesla is a poorly managed company that overpaid Musk

The decline in the Tesla stock price is reflecting these facts. I am amused that Musk is trying to move Tesla out of Delaware because Musk keeps getting his butt beat in the Delaware Chancery Court.

[Javaman]

9. Musky suffers from billionaire know it all disease. nt

[JohnSJ]

10. One of the major problems is the infrastructure isn't there, and the upfront expense of all electric

vehicles is still more expensive than their hybrid or ICE comparatives.

A lot of people live in facilities that don't have access to charging stations, such as those who live in apartments, and there isn't enough charging stations to serve the general public in parking lots and other places.

[Sympthsical]

16. That played a role in our thinking as well

My partner and I both wanted to switch over to electric vehicles, but it honestly became a matter of practicality. There aren't easily accessible charging stations where we typically go. At home, PG&E, with their faux incentives, would just be adding costs we weren't particularly interested in bearing. "The best time to charge your vehicle is on the second night of the full moon when Jupiter is in Capricorn . . ." It was like, ugh, no.

Now that we have our own solar, it's become a thought. I'm not getting a car for another two years, so we'll see what's what by then. And PG&E is being even more squirrelly than usual about their rates.

I dunno what happened with California. They're wrecking the solar industry and letting the utilities run roughshod over everyone.

Lobbying gets you a lot of mileage in this state.

[genxlib]

11. I wish Tesla and Musk would go ahead and divorce

Musk deserves every bit of bad karma coming his way.

But I have a hard time celebrating his karma dragging Tesla down with him.

At a time when we need every tool in the toolkit to combat climate change, it pains me to see Tesla become a pariah to the very group of people who are willing to buy for the planet.

Say what you will about Musk, but there was a time when Tesla really moved the needle on the EV revolution. While other EV cars did it first and more cost effectively, those cars were largely aimed at the ultra-crunchy amongst us. Tesla made it cool to own an EV and broadened the market for more upscale vehicles to a wider range of customers. Not to mention, the investment in infrastructure that made owning an EV more practical beyond basic commuting.

Musk is single handedly destroying that position by pissing off his likely buyers and sucking up to people who would rather have a giant gas guzzling pick-up. Sure his design decisions on the cybertruck are ridiculously ill advised but that pales in comparison to pissing on your primary customer base as a dumbass way to run a company.

I realize the EV market is more diverse now and there are other options. But I just think it is bad for the industry to set fire to the reputation of the best known brand. It will inevitably have a trickle on effect to the industry as a whole.

I wish they would just push him out already At this point, he only owns about a fifth of the company so he works at the mercy of the board and shareholders. I would love to see him sent packing so there could be at least a possibility of rescuing their cache in the market.

[flying_wahini]

17. Yes, yes and yes. Musk is a lot like TFG in that he is his own worst enemy. Big mouth and bad ideas.

Cuts his nose off to spite his face.

[Shermann]

26. Musk has demonstrated mostly good ideas with Tesla

He astutely determined that lithium batteries, despite their limitations and sluggish improvements, were good enough to build a viable EV on. He put his money where his mouth was, before anybody else. He was also correct that "hydrogen is dumb".

The verdict is out on Cybertruck. Personally, I think it looks hideous. That said, it is sold out until 2027.

[SergeStorms]

121. Correction.

"He put his money where his mouth was."

The State of California (and its taxpayers) put their money where Eloon's idea was. Without the saleable clean air credits (to the tune of $600+ million) Tesla would never have gotten off the ground. Throw in a free Toyota plant not being used, and Eloon put very little of his own money where his mouth was.

Eloon knows how to use other people's money in making his fortune.

[Shermann]

132. Did California buy him that 13 percent stake in Tesla?

I assure you this man has skin in the EV game.

[LisaM]

46. After reading what happened to Angela Chao....

I'm pretty sure the "cool" factor (if it ever existed) is gone.

I don't understand, I mean, truly don't understand, why anyone would want a car with a giant computer screen instead of things like gear shifts. And I also don't understand why people want a high performance vehicle but don't seem to take any joy in driving it or even want to drive it.

[beaglelover]

48. She backed her car into a pond. Sounds like user error to me.

[LisaM]

57. Other people have reported problems with the touch screen shifter.

It seems like a pretty serious design flaw. You shouldn't be able to accidentally go into reverse.

[orthoclad]

89. Touch screens suck!

There is no tactile or kinetic feedback to tell if you hit the right thing - key, gearshift, radio button, whatever. This means you have to have eyes-on for feedback. That means eyes-off the road. Modern cars have too many distractions to be safe to operate. You're surrounded by distracted drivers looking at screens, talking on phones, and texting. I prefer to be looking at the real world around me when I'm operating heavy machinery.

Also, touch screens rely on body capacitance coupled in a predictable way with the screen. They're calibrated for a certain range of skin conditions. If you have calloused fingertips or dry, thick skin, they don't work well. Sometimes I have to use 3,4 stabs to get a touch screen to react. VERY bad design element, despite their "coolness". But they're cheap to manufacture compared with physical controls.

edit: They're ok for non-essential things like radio (tho I still prefer old-fashioned radio buttons, which don't require eyes-on) but for critical features like gear shift? No way.

[Disaffected]

104. No argument with any of that.

I don't understand why EV drivers poking their touch screens while driving are not charged with distracted driving as one would be, at least where I live, if you are, for instance, fiddling with a GPS screen or phone.

And, to make things worse, the VW EVs have touch "buttons" on the steering wheel which also apparently have the same issues as a touch screen.

[orthoclad]

110. It's not EVs, it's all modern cars

Although EVs may be more gadget-crazy than most, all modern cars have lots of screens and distractions that make driving more dangerous - to the driver and everyone around them. Makes me want to just walk.

Radio buttons were the best driving design. By feel, you could push a button and get your desired station without taking your eyes from the road. I keep thinking of the scene in the King book where the guy glances down to change stations and hits a kid.

I frankly can't imagine needing or wanting any more than half a dozen stations per band. I once went all the way thru all 500 stations on Sirius, and didn't find a single one worth listening to besides NPR. The specialized stations all played the absolute worst of their genres. Sirius might be a plus in an extremely remote area, but two public, two popular, a traffic, and a classical station are plenty here.

Cops won't enforce distracted driving laws because they're all busy texting.

[beaglelover]

119. Any car can be accidentally put into reverse, even a manual one.

[LisaM]

138. Of course, but not that easily.

I have now read reports that it may have been a switch on the steering wheel. I still don't understand why anyone would design it either way. As a driver, I want to be connected to the automobile a little more organically.

[kcr]

72. If user error happens because of poor design

then it is a design error.

[KidContra]

94. It didn't have that shifter

It's been reported that the car was a 2020 model with regular column shifter. How about just don't drink and drive even if it's only on your estate.

[lostnfound]

51. 100% agree

Tesla owner here. Bought before he took the red pill. So I don’t have to pay for charging. Tesla charging network is great.
Disappointed former twitter user, too

[GiqueCee]

12. Couldn't happen to a nicer asshole...

... who basically stole the company out from under the guys that actually invented the Tesla. Musk is a miserable turd of a man.

[jimfields33]

35. I'm sure he'll be just fine.

[GiqueCee]

43. I'm sure you're right...

... but he is, was, and always will be, an asshole.

[Joinfortmill]

18. Guy is such a dick.

[efhmc]

80. My own favorite line about him on Twitter: a racist, a misogynist and a bad engineer. I would add business man.

[Midnight Writer]

19. It's OK. Elon still has a couple hundred billion dollars to fall back on.

He's "revolutionized" our transportation, our satellite communications, our social platforms.

So what if his investors, his shareholders, his customers are losing out?

He's got his. He will get even more, as he "revolutionizes" our healthcare and our society and our government. Investors will line up to give him more money.

As long as he gets those government contracts from the government he derides and destabilizes, he'll do great.

What a great country! An immigrant with a family fortune can come to our teeming shores, become a citizen, court rich investors with his vision of untested but superior technologies, get lucrative government contracts, work from within to destroy our social structure and democratic traditions, hobnob with dictators and insurrectionists, and become the richest boy in the whole wide world!

Only In America!

Remember, this one guy is more valuable than millions of us regular folks. Satisfying him is our priority.

[doc03]

20. Consumer Reports reliability ratings and the fact the infrastructure does

exist for EVs tells me all I need to know. Then consider Elon Musk and the car's
resale value, no thanks. A hybrid maybe but an EV at this time, no way.

[kimbutgar]

33. Brought a hybrid last October

You can get 500 miles on it before you have to get gas. There infrastructure is just not there in many places and don’t get me started on high electricity bills people are incurring with Teslas.

[doc03]

50. AEP raised their rates 30% last year, if we go to

EVs they will continue to raise prices. Cost
wise EVs will not be any less than an ICE.

[pazzyanne]

21. Looks like Musk is using tfg's business plan.

[Ohioboy]

22. Elon panders to right-wingers who tend to hate electric cars

[tanyev]

53. Yep, it's a curious business model.

[Shermann]

148. Hardly pandering, he's not endorsed either candidate and has been critical of Trump

He does appear to have an ideological alignment with the GOP on issues like unions and corporate taxation, but that doesn't get to "pandering".

[Ohioboy]

150. Maybe not total pandering

But he sure bent toward them with his Twitter file nonsense.

[mackdaddy]

25. There have been a lot of reports of people dying in them, including Mitch McConnell's billionair sister in law.

She lurched backward into her estate's pond and drowned. No real explanation of what happened as far as her operation of the vehicle. Apparently some use the touch screen to change directions.

I have seen quite a few stories of the self driving mode being misused or going haywire too, resulting in bad or fatal crashes.

And many of these vehicles have so many sensors that even a minor fender swipe could cost tens of thousands to repair.

Also when the main battery pack fails it is very expensive to repair.

Then you have Musk going all X or Q or what ever right wing crazy when the customer base for EV are probably majority Progressives he is alienating.

I taught alternative energy for a few years at the local tech college and run my house from solar. EVs have their place but I am not sure turning everything into a rolling computer is a good idea.

[Shermann]

27. Sweden and Norway didn't get the memo

Outlier to be brushed off or indicator of things to come?

[Ford_Prefect]

55. Buyer's Remorse will get them yet. Tesla is poorly engineered in several ways which will severely undercut their long

term ownership. In particular they have very poor assembly design. The chassis is made of far too many small sections welded together which make them weak as a platform and subject to many possible points of failure in the longer term. The battery packs are not well protected from water incursion which has caused more than a few fires, especially if it is salt water. European buyers expect a higher quality standard than Tesla has so far delivered as a product line. No one spending what Tesla's current offerings cost is going to be willing to put up with frequent and sometimes brand-wide recalls for safety, performance, and reliability issues. There may even be government interference if there are safety issues such as we have seen here.

It is possible that the new factory operators and workers will address these and other issues in time. But they won't get far by disrespecting the people whose hands are making the vehicles.

Tesla are already losing market share to less complicated platforms from other makes with better reliability history and will likey continue to do so.

Understand that I am not bashing the brand. I am reporting known problems which the market has acknowledged cause doubt about Tesla's long term potential. Anyone starting from scratch to build a new kind of vehicle would face some of these issues. To survive Tesla needs to do as other manufacturers have done in terms of engineering and quality control. Elon hyping them is no substitute for genuine product development, and responsible awareness of how vehicles of any motivation system operate in the real world.

100 years ago, in America and Europe, there were dozens of car makers offering innovative versions of personal and commercial transportation. They faced some of the same issues regarding building a reliable and functional product. Some of them fell to economic forces, poor management decisions, or misplaced optimism. Those who survived did so because their cars delivered at least the quality of the day and evolved to continue that trend.

They also eventually had to acknowledge the unionization of labor as a part of the manufacturing process which produced quality product.

[Shermann]

61. Tesla is making significant investments in Giga Press

This will reduce the number of parts and is employed on the Model Y and Cybertruck. So, they are going to be out in front on that issue.

The Tesla product quality criticisms always seem to be based on anecdotes or fallacious comparisons with ICE's. Apples-to-apples comparisons with other EV manufacturers don't seem to show a statistically significant issue. EV's are cutting edge and will be a step backwards from mature ICE technology in many ways. They may never catch up, look at CRT's. They are generally more reliable than the LCD's which we currently use, but there are bigger picture (no pun intended) issues there.

Since we are dragging in other considerations like unions, I'll say that only Tesla and BYD are focused entirely on EV's. Detroit is equivocating between EV's and ICE's and can't be entrusted to drive the market forward on their own.

[IronLionZion]

69. Very small markets compared to US and China

[NickB79]

86. Norway taxes the crap out of ICE vehicles

Something that won't fly in the US for the foreseeable future.

[ArkansasDemocrat1]

30. "worst depreciating vehicles on the market right now" I saw one yesterday at a 'buy-here, pay here' used lot lol

[brewens]

31. Pissing off millions of potential customers is not good marketing. Musk may have noticed that MAGAts

are not very enthusiastic about EVs. I'm not in the market for one but if I was, I would buy anything but a Tesla because of Musk's politics.

[kimbutgar]

32. You'd ever know it in SF

The city is loaded Teslas. On the street I live has at least 6 Teslas. And a large amount of drivers are a holes on the road. My neighbor had one that was in a body shop that got flooded and the water ruined the battery and the car was considered totaled. Luckily my neighbor got the full purchase price back in insurance. And they brought another Tesla.

[apnu]

34. The Cybertruck rust issue hurts too.

Its a publicity nightmare on a vehicle and company that is plagued with publicity nightmares.

[Disaffected]

45. The Cyberdruck body is made of stainless steel.

Where is the "rust issue"?

[Pluvious]

59. I recall something about that...

The post explained that there's two kinds of stainless steel, one is prone to rusting - the other not

Tesla used the wrong one (cheaper?)

[Disaffected]

100. This may more be a matter of semantics than anything else.

One can say the metal is "rusting" while another may characterize it as "surface "corrosion" or "staining". It is apparently also associated with air borne sea salt, as well as sap and insect deposits. Bottom line is I believe this is more an blemish/appearance issue rather than the more damaging form of rust that occurs with conventional steel body panels. An alternative is apparently to get a $5K clear coat.

[IronLionZion]

68. Stainless steel still stains and rusts, it's a common misconception

https://www.wired.com/story/this-is-why-teslas-stainless-steel-cybertrucks-may-be-rusting/

It's not a good material for car exteriors unless it's covered in clear coat or Tesla's $5,000 urethane film.

[Mersky]

70. Where? Anywhere rain hits the uncoated body

This Is Why Tesla’s Stainless Steel Cybertrucks May Be Rusting
Who knew stainless steel might not be such a good idea for the exterior of an electric SUV? The entire automotive industry, that’s who.

Carlton Reid
GEAR
FEB 16, 2024 4:05 PM

DURING THE CYBERTRUCK'S unveiling in 2019, Tesla CEO Elon Musk claimed that the electric vehicle's "ultra-hard stainless steel" body might be "literally bulletproof." However, the Tesla truck's exterior panels appear to be defenseless against water pistols. They apparently rust, as some owners claim.

Posting on the Cybertruck Owners Club forum, a user named Raxar risked the wrath of the Tesla faithful—already exercised by the Cybertruck's numerous alleged design flaws—by stating that when they collected the $61,000 truck, "the advisor specifically mentioned the Cybertrucks develop orange rust marks in the rain."

https://www.wired.com/story/this-is-why-teslas-stainless-steel-cybertrucks-may-be-rusting/

___
So, the urethane wrap is a $5,000 option. Maybe if Musk wasn’t so X-ed out or whatever, he would have made the coating standard and literally protected the image of the new ‘truck.’ I mean, he’s committed to courting wingers, nazis, and tech bro/incel malcontents, ya know, low tolerance for novelty guys — I don’t see them accepting rust buckets anytime soon.

[donte]

76. Yeah but

It goes 0 to 60 in 3 seconds/S!

[melm00se]

36. When Tesla enjoyed the big run up

they, effectively, were the only game in town in the EV game (with the exception of a few other niche players).

For all their new revolutionary technology, they really weren't really well assembled (some of the welds I have seen look like they were done by a drunken, day 2 welding student) and if you are paying $60,000+, you want a car that is well assembled and looks really good (even in the parts you don't normally see).

Google Tesla welds to see.

When the big players got into the market, they knew/know how to build a cars foundation really well. They adapted their existing designs to accept the redistribution of weight and drivetrain to make the car go and away they went.

The other thing that has happened is the glow is wearing off EVs and reality is setting in:

- They are heavy, heavier than the equivalent sized vehicle, which burns up things like tires (and high end cars have high end tires and replacing those can be really spendy) and brakes
- Heating and cooling the car (as well as operating in hot and cold climes) really hits the mileage.
- Cars break. Mainstream car manufacturers have a huge supply chain infrastructure for things like spare/replacement parts. Teslas are getting totaled out for (relatively) minor damage because it will take a long time to get parts (granted this is a recent occurrence with some mainstream companies as well).
- Cars break II - if you lose your brakes or you overheat or a senor goes bad on a mainstream car, you can get it fixed in pretty short order. Almost any mechanic can fix a Ford or Toyota or Mazda or Lexus and get you back on the road quickly. Your Tesla goes south? Not a lot of mechanics would know what to do if it didn't involve brakes or tires.
- The early adopters are saturated but the next waves in the adoption curve are not convinced that this is the thing.

Fan boys tend to ignore, overlook or excuse these real world issues but the market is figuring it out and these new EV companies are going to have to figure out how to address these and quickly or they'll end up like Tucker, Studebaker, Saturn and the like.

[liberalgunwilltravel]

49. Brakes are not an issure with most EVs

Tire wear on the long range models can be an issue. However, regenerative braking reduces brake wear substantially. Additionally, overall reduced maintenance costs, if you don't get a lemon, more than make up for the cost of high quality tires. And if you have sufficient solar panels that can handle most of your charging needs, the savings are quite considerable. EVs aren't the panacea but they are certainly a step in the right direction as we move toward more renewable power, better battery technology, and more tech training for repair services.

[lonely bird]

39. Eloon is Trump

Eloon is a salesman, first and foremost, of himself.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elon_Musk

He is not the genius that some seem to think he is. Yes, he has made some good decisions. He has also made some bad decisions. The culture of celebrity especially in this country has allowed him to further enhance his “genius” image.

He did not start PayPal. He did not start Tesla. In the case of Tesla his bombast combined with his celebrity allowed him to push Tesla forward as some child of his genius. He is product architect for Tesla and the truck shows his ignorance. He is chief engineer for SpaceX which, imo, is a title only. It enhances his image. The real work is done by the engineering department.

[liberalgunwilltravel]

44. Hoping

I am hoping that Elon is forced to sell Tesla to a real car company. The Model 3 & Y have the potential to be great vehicles. The RWD 3 is among the most efficient of all EVs. The engineers at Tesla, when not being harangued by Musk know what they're doing. But egos destroy everything.

[riversedge]

52. Well this part is certainly true.......

I know little about his car company, but Musk has increase his presence on twitter.......



......Meanwhile, Musk has been accused by shareholders of abandoning the company and has spent a lot of his time on X-formerly-Twitter spreading disinformation and furthering racist tropes.

[sellitman]

56. I'd walk before buying a NAZI-Mobile from him.

I also will never charge my car with his charging system, so I guess my next car will be another Prius.

Good luck, Eloon. I wonder how many MAGA dipshits will buy your cars. My guess is not enough.

[LittleGirl]

64. We loved our 3 Prius cars so far.

We are moving to CA and will not import our 2 Priuses. Unfortunately. Great reliable cars and about 300 miles per fill up. Oil change once a year, do the 20k, 50k maintenance was worth every penny. Never been stranded since ‘09.

We were in SF CA last week and had a EV Ford Mustang Mach and it was new. Had two hundred miles on it and our hotel had charging stations so free to us. Loved that and would never purchase a Tesla from one of the worst persons in the world. My sIL has a stripped down 2023 Tesla and it’s not nice to drive at all. The Mustang was great. We will probably purchase a Ford EV over Tesla, for sure.

Musk is a creep. I love that a couple of his spawn have disowned him. Serves that nasty guy for sure.

[Ping Tung]

58. Maybe he could overestimate Tesla's value and sell it to his pal Trump.

Then Trump could go bankrupt and make a killing.

[liberalla]

60. Aww... this is so sad for poor elon...

[IronLionZion]

65. Musk is a brilliant super genius like Trump

Earth is too woke for them. They should both get on a rocket to Mars and stay there.

[SouthernDem4ever]

67. I had to laugh at the last line of the snippet....

Meanwhile, Musk has been accused by shareholders of abandoning the company and has spent a lot of his time on X-formerly-Twitter spreading disinformation and furthering racist tropes.

Even though it's true amd really not funny just made me laugh where it was placed.

[PortTack]

73. All this and he picked a non winnable union strike with the Finnish countries

Not only have they shut production down, mail carriers won’t deliver parts, parts places won’t manufacture parts, Tesla dealers are refusing to sell the cars , dock workers won’t unload anything tesla.

It’s a sight to behold!

[BannonsLiver]

91. Judging by a few of the responses in the thread

We still have some posters who just don’t seem to be getting it with regard to Elmo. What does he have to do for the spell to be broken? Where’s the red line? 🤷?♂️

[chouchou]

93. I certainly hope that The Elon Musk-led company's future is going to be very bright!

I also hope I'll be the leading Lady in the new ":Gone with the wind Part II movie... ....and inherit Fort Knox.

[Submariner]

95. Always call it MAGA-Tesla to make stink stick to Musk like glue

there will be better EV's from manufacturers who didn't enjoy Paul Pelosi's beating at his home. Who wants a QAnon mega-tesla anyway.

[Doodley]

97. Tesla stock price doubled last year and sales up 35%. .

Okay there's a correction, but all EVs are being hammered down. Tesla is in a very strong position compared to the competition. Musk is a jerk, but Tesla is in great shape. Too much wishful thinking here.

[Snackshack]

103. I don't think

I would categorize this as maybe reality being injected back into the market, perhaps by that invisible hand or some other way because there is no logical, or reasonable explanation for Tesla stock price… same for Berkshire but that is a different post.

It still up 827% over 5 yrs….

[budkin]

109. i used to want a Tesla before I knew who Elon was

Now I wouldn't consider it.

[WarGamer]

114. I don't know where to start...

I guess I 'll start here.

When people criticize the quality of a Tesla... there seem to be folks calling them LUXURY cars. They're not. The Model Y is the best selling car in THE WORLD.

A nice 2024 Model Y is around $44k (-7500 tax credit)

LOWER than the US Average New Car cost of 48k

And a 2024 Audi Q8 E-tron is around 80k (-7500 tax credit)

A new 2024 Mercedes EQE is around 85k (-7500 tax credit)

So the reason a Tesla looks like a Nissan Altima/Toyota Camry inside... is because it's not a luxury car.

2) Ferrari and Tesla are the most profitable car mfg in the world, and it's not even close.

Right now Tesla is being aggressive with pricing and the margins are dropping... to claim market share.

Call me when Tesla profit margin is down to Ford or GM levels...

3) Resale values are only dropping because the same model in 2022 cost more than the new model... because of price decreases. Drive a new Tesla today and the depreciation over the next 5 years is still better than Ford, GM, etc...

Mostly... STOP thinking of Musk when you think of Tesla and SpaceX.

He's really just a carnival barker who has little to nothing to do with daily operations...

These cars and space vehicles have and will change society. Just don't give Musk the credit or the blame.

[Shermann]

153. Unfortunately, your logic requires looking past the shiny object. nt

[cab67]

118. I don't doubt this. But...

...in the two cities I inhabit, the number of Teslas on the road keeps increasing. So does the number of recharging stations.

If I ever rent another electric vehicle, it'll be a Tesla. We had to abandon the Bolt we rented over the winter holidays because we were unable to find a recharging station. Most of the apps intended to find recharge stations for vehicles that aren't Teslas are loaded with false information, and we wasted precious battery power driving between empty lots and ordinary streets with nothing but buildings.

I have no use for Musk, but all issues of depreciation aside, I see no evidence that sales are decreasing. The trend seems to be in the opposite direction.

[edhopper]

124. Tesla stock has alway been overpriced

It sells like a Tech company at a high PE rather than a car companynlikecGM or Toyota.
It is due to come down to Earth.

[NYC2ATL]

126. Couldn't happen to a nicer guy.

[GenThePerservering]

133. What is up with these click-baity headlines

Everything is "absolute!", "destroyed!", "epic!", etc. etc.

Yes, Musk is a garbage human, and there are actual teams at his companies to manage him so he doesn't interfere with operations. Particularly Space-X where an unsung CEO is running everything and when Musk shows up they practically lock him in the bathroom so he doesn't screw things up.

[RipVanWinkle]

134. Tesla has an obnoxious CEO.

I own a Tesla. I love the car. I will never buy another ICE car ever again.

In future car purchases, I will avoid dealers. My buying experience from Tesla was like a walk in the park compared to the typical car buying experience at a car dealer.

It's not unusual for automobile manufacturers to have down years, in terms of sales and stock performance. Ford has had them. GM has had them. Chrysler had to be bailed out by the government twice.

I have never owned Tesla stock and I never will. I am neutral toward Elon; I neither like him or dislike him. I am not on X-formerly-Twitter.

To Tesla's credit, the company disrupted the automobile market. Nissan also deserves credit for the disruption as well. But, if it weren't for Tesla and Nissan, where would the U.S. car market in terms of electrification be now?

I did not read the article. However, in reading the OP, the overall tone of this post seems highly negative.

It's too bad that Tesla has such an obnoxious CEO. It's a good car company. Tesla won't dominate the EV market in the U.S. market forever, but I believe the company will make the right choices and adjustments to remain competitive.

[Joinfortmill]

147. Yup, dragging the S&P 500 down.