I had the oddest encounter yesterday, and would welcome some feedback

[niyad]

Last edited Sun Mar 3, 2024, 10:39 PM - Edit history (1)

from my DU family.

I was going to a wine tasting at my favourite local bookstore/cafe/wine bar. As I was a bit early, I was about to grab the last table available when a young man sort of pushed ahead of me and claimed it. I asked if I could join him, since there were no other tables. He seemed, even at that point, not quite connected. I sat, and took out the book I am currently reading, "The Woman's Hour", by Elaine Weiss, about the incredible fight in TN to ratify the 19th Amendment.

After a couple of minutes, he asked me, apparently in reference to something he was watching on his phone, if I liked "The Office". I said that I was not familiar with it, not having a tv, which astounded him. Then he asked me about the book I was reading, so I told him. He did not know about 19A, had no idea why it was necessary, had never heard of ratification, or state legislatures. I tried several times to answer his questions, to explain things. Nothing seemed to sink in. He did not seem to know that women don't have equal rights in this country. We did not even get to reproductive rights. He seemed completely clueless. I kept wondering if he was deliberately trying to play me, but I continued to answer his questions as if he were serious.

I have encountered a great many low-information people in my time, but nothing like this complete lack of knowledge of even the most basic workings of government. As I said at the beginning, there were some indications that he was not entirely functional, but I do not know if it was real, or put on. It was truly one of the most bizarre encounters I have ever had.

Has anyone here exerienced something similar? If so, how did you handle it? I am seriously glad I had a wine tasting to take my mind off the weirdness! Any observations will be most welcome.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

1. He could have been neurodivergent. It's a big world.

[niyad]

2. This is true, and I know neurodivergence presents in many different ways,

even amoung my friends who are. But I still have never encountered anything like that.

[bucolic_frolic]

3. Some young people have been raised only on the sterility of digital media

If it's outside pop or streaming culture they are not aware. No depth of knowledge, no reference points, barely adequate logic and reasoning. But they know who wore what to the Emmy's, who dates who, and how to app.

[niyad]

4. Completely scary, and sad.

[SoFlaBro]

7. This is so spot on: they know jack shit about a fucking thing. Many eschew fucking knowledge and education.

[hlthe2b]

27. I can remember so many years ago at least 20% of my school class cared NOTHING about learning...

Not just bored but actively did everything possible not to learn anything. This is decades ago and I get the sense that the percentage has dramatically increased every year since. Then you factor in what is being taught (and NOT taught).

I see the leaders among the younger generations who are quite the opposite--well-informed and taking the mantle on guns, climate, and so many other issues and feel reassured. But they need the help of those who are decidedly NOT informed, not educated, and may never catch up enough to care--until it is too late. It is devastating to contemplate.

[Aristus]

5. One of the most dismaying things I've ever experienced in my life

is just how much intellectual incuriosity there is out there. People don’t know, and they don’t want to know. They’re content being passive receptacles for whatever nonsense unscrupulous people will pour into them.

I’ve never learned anything in my life that didn’t stimulate a desire to know more. I’ve been called a know-it-all before. But the truth is, the things I learn only serve to remind me how much I don’t know.

[niyad]

8. EVERYTHING you said!!! Just today, in addition to everything I learned here

on DU, I encountered three new subjects that I will be looking into more deeply.

I continue to give thanks for the internet. . .A whole world of knowledge at one's fingertips! Between that, and my libraries, and my bookstores. . endless possibilities!

[LoisB]

14. Yes!

[cachukis]

11. There is no such thing as boredom.

The human mind, when assuming it knows what's happening or overwhelmed with too much beyond its scope, will seek out something new within 3 to 4 seconds.
With ready made entertainment at its fingertips, the human mind fills itself with accomplishment with endorsing excitement. It is singular, searching for ratification.
Over time, that mind finds companions. The simple mind finds them faster.

[Sky Jewels]

17. I agree up to a certain point. I like to learn and I never feel "bored" ... BUT ...

I also know that humans evolved in a time when our brains were wired to take in our immediate surroundings, and maybe also have an inkling of what was going on with the tribe that live over the hill, or maybe with the people in the next village down the river. For the most part, we have absolutely no way to process the non-stop firehose deluge of information that mows us down each and every day thanks to the internet. I'm always torn between trying to "keep up" with what's going on globally and the reality that I can't possibly know everything, and it's just not good for my mental health to take in the details of every horrible, gut wrenching thing that's happening in this country and worldwide.

[róisín_dubh]

47. Seriously.

I used to teach college history and many students just could not GAF about anything unless it was directly related to something they were interested in.
Me? I can't read or watch anything without going down a rabbit hole trying to learn as much as I can.

[Deuxcents]

6. If he was in a bookstore, what kind of books was he interested in?

[niyad]

9. None, apparently. He only came in for a drink.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

51. He came in for a drink, and he got a drink.

Mission accomplished.

Maybe most of us at DU are a self-selected subgroup who are interested in politics and its inner workings. Not everyone cares, which might explain some of the Trump bumper stickers.

How was the wine?

[niyad]

58. The wines were excellent, as was the company.

[Rebl2]

10. Either

playing dumb or was a really poor student in high school. Or maga.

[niyad]

12. One of the first two, perhaps. I would think a magat would be completely

negative about 19A.

[LoisB]

13. Back in the early '70s, I tutored a young lady (19-20 years old) in History at a local community college

I made mention of the March on Washington and her response was "there was a march on Washington Boulevard?" (a street in L.A.). This was before cell phones so she didn't even have that distraction. I think there are some people who just have no curiosity about anything that doesn't directly impact them so they live in a very small world. I looked upon it as an opportunity to give her a little insight into the Civil Rights movement hoping she would want to know more but she never returned. I admit I was disappointed.

[niyad]

15. That is just so very sad, and disturbing.

[LoisB]

22. Yes; especially since she was a young Black woman.

Failure on the part of her parents and teachers through high school that she was in college and had no idea of such a significant, recent (at the time) historical event.

[SarahD]

16. Met some people in college.

I had a fun conversation with someone who didn't know what apartheid was and had no clue about what was happening in South Africa. I.knew this person, so I'm sure it was not an act.

[niyad]

31. That is disturbing.

[Joinfortmill]

18. Maybe he was 'on the spectrum' & uneducated.

Or some similar combination.

[niyad]

32. I had not thought about ASD, so thank you.

[SleeplessinSoCal]

19. Today I made a comment about millennials to a millenial.

He was told he looked like Laurel of Laurel and Hardy. He said he didn't know who they were. I quickly chimed in and said we boomers would ask "who is he?", if we didn't recognize a reference, whereas millenials say "I don't know who that is" or "never heard of them". I repeatedly hear from millenials that they don't know who some formerly famous person is with absolutely no curiosity. At first I thought they were trying to make me feel old/my age. Buy I'm more convinced that they think they know everything they need to know. No sense of curiosity or desire to learn about others. Scary.

[Sympthsical]

29. Or they just don't care

I'm a Millennial. Never bothered to find out who Laurel and Hardy were, and I've heard their names in passing all my life. I've pieced together through context over the years they're a comedy duo. Never had the spirit move me to look them up.

I'm a pretty curious person. My best friend calls me "a font of useless information" and I'd probably be decently suited to Jeopardy.

But there are just some things . . . I don't care. Laurel and Hardy, now that I've looked it up, are a pop culture reference that started out nearly a century ago. You might as well ask me for a list of favorite 19th Century theater actors. It's just not useful information outside of trivia night at the bar.

It's not a matter of thinking one knows everything. It's a matter of relevance. It'd be like talking with my nephew about Eve 6, Collective Soul, or the band Live. He may or may not know it. Huge to me in my 90s heyday. Meaningless to him. And even if told him about who they were, the chances of him rushing home to listen to their albums is roughly nil.

Actually, I could talk to Boomers about those bands and they'd probably not know them or be very interested either.

[SleeplessinSoCal]

48. Laurel and Hardy are actually still on TV.

Granted, there is a mountain of content on tv. My point is there is a kind of arrogance and lack of awareness that is palpable in most millenials i've encountered over the past 8 to 10 years. The same people who blame boomers for almost everything wrong in the world.

Btw, I'm not a fan of Laurel and Hardy, but recall there was a Steve Coogan and John C Reilly biopic in 2018.

"Stan & Ollie (2018)

The true story of Hollywood's greatest comedy double-act, Laurel and Hardy, is brought to the big screen for the first time. Starring Steve Coogan and John C. Reilly as the inimitable movie icons, 'Stan and Ollie' is the heartwarming story of what would become the pair's triumphant farewell tour. With their golden era long behind them, the pair embark on a variety hall tour of Britain and Ireland. Despite the pressures of a hectic schedule, and with the support of their wives Lucille (Shirley Henderson) and Ida (Nina Arianda)--a formidable double act in their own right--the pair's love of performing, as well as for each other, endures as they secure their place in the hearts of their adoring public."

[niyad]

34. That is a very telling observation. I am going to have to pay more

attention to my interactions with millenials, few though they are.

[Rebl2]

45. I am

not surprised they don’t know who they are. They don’t seem to watch old movies or tv shows. They just stream stuff. So do people my age I suppose. I don’t because I can’t afford it, and if I could I still wouldn’t. I do know who Taylor Swift is though 🙂!

[SleeplessinSoCal]

49. Congrats on being a 21st century Luddite!

I thought I was slow to the computer age. Now I'm the only one in my household who can get the TV working. We have two with cable and firestick streaming as well as soundbar with one and a receiver with the other. There are three remotes for one and four for the other. Massively difficult to keep working easily. Stay sane!!

[jmbar2]

20. I currently substitute in my local school district

I am sometimes shocked at how clueless the kids seem, and have been wondering if we were like that in high school and just didn't realize it.

In a high school health class the other day, the teacher asked what the difference was between prescription drugs, and over-the-counter medicines such as acetaminophen. They were unfamiliar with those words and he had to explain each term.

They cannot read cursive writing. It is no longer taught.

I could give many other examples, but it's too scary. I worry for the future of this nation.

But then I see kids like Maxwell Frost, David Hogg, and Olivia Juliana and think, wow the kids are alright. Maybe it is the socioeconomic class and the school district....

[niyad]

35. Wow, the first part of your post was, to say the least, disheartening

and discouraging. I know that I was always asking questions, always in the libraries (the school's and the public one), couldn't say for sure about my classmates.

But you are quite correct about the last part. So many amazing young people give me hope!

[PatSeg]

53. And the saddest part is

these young people have the answers right at their fingertips all the time. So essentially it appears that many of them just aren't curious. They are plugged in all the time, but it is to superficial, mindless clutter. That is really disturbing on so many levels.

[LudwigPastorius]

21. "If so, how did you handle it?"

I tend not to strike up conversations with strangers, just because so many of them are...strange. But then again, I am a natural introvert.

I'm much more likely to engage someone I don't know if they've been introduced to me by my friends.

[niyad]

36. As I pointed out, he actually started the conversation. But you are correct,

many people are strange. And many are interesting, but one never knows.

And you are in good company. A very famous literary character, Mr. Darcy in "Pride and Prejudice" says a very similar thing.

[DET]

23. Double Edged Sword

I am constantly amazed at how stupid people are now that we have virtually unlimited access to information. And it’s immediately available. The only source of information most of us had growing up was the library - and most of that information was dated, plus newspapers and magazines, as long as you paid for them. The internet is like a huge playground; there are so many things to learn and it’s impossible to be bored. But it’s a sink hole for stupid people who are easily manipulated, evil people who want confirmation of the supremacy of their vile instincts, and the terminally uninterested who just want their version of entertainment.

The person you encountered could have been mentally impaired, or he could have been one of the many brain dead zombies who walk amongst us.

[niyad]

37. You are quite correct about the negative side of the internet. I have

wondered how it is that, with so much actual information out there, an entire subset of our population only encounter the bs, the nonsense, the lies. Is it the algorithms?

And the braindead. how does that even happen??? I wish I knew.

[diva77]

24. It's possible he has "Electronic Screen Syndrome"

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/mental-wealth/201207/electronic-screen-syndrome-unrecognized-disorder

Electronic Screen Syndrome: An Unrecognized Disorder?
Screentime and the rise of mental disorders in children.

Posted July 23, 2012 | Reviewed by Ekua Hagan

SNIP
If you follow my other posts, you may know that I blame a lot of mental health woes on the effects of electronic screen media. I firmly believe that the unnaturally stimulating nature of an electronic screen—irrespective of the content it brings—has ill effects on our mental and physical health at multiple levels.

Screen-related effects can present in many shapes and forms. Although varied, many of the effects can be grouped into symptoms related to mood, cognition, and behavior. The root of these symptoms appears to be linked to repeated stress on the nervous system, making self-regulation and stress management less efficient.

Because of the complicated and varied nature of screens’ effects, I’ve found it helpful to conceptualize the phenomena in terms of a syndrome—what I call Electronic Screen Syndrome (ESS). ESS can occur in the absence of a psychiatric disorder and mimic it, or it can occur in the face of an underlying disorder, exacerbating it.

ESS is essentially a disorder of dysregulation. Dysregulation can be defined as an inability to modulate one’s mood, attention, or level of arousal in a manner appropriate to one’s environment.

Interacting with screens shifts the nervous system into fight-or-flight mode which leads to dysregulation and disorganization of various biological systems. Sometimes this stress response is immediate and pronounced (say while playing an action video game), and other times the response is more subtle and may happen only after a certain amount of repetition (say while texting). The mechanisms for screens causing a stress response are varied and are a topic for another day. In short, though, interacting with screen devices causes a child to become overstimulated and “revved up.”

SNIP

=============

Not necessarily just a diagnosis for children - may apply to adults as well.

=============

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5849631/

Intractable Rare Dis Res. 2018 Feb; 7(1): 69–71.
doi: 10.5582/irdr.2018.01007
PMCID: PMC5849631
PMID: 29552452
Early electronic screen exposure and autistic-like symptoms

Summary

Prevalence autism spectrum disorders (ASD) has been on rise, but many studies suggests over-diagnosed. Currently, children have more access to electronic media on the daily basis than those of previous generation. Some studies suggest that increases screen time is associated with melanopsin-expressing neurons and decreasing gamma-aminobutyric acid (GABA) neurotransmitter, and thus results aberrant behavior, decreased cognitive, and language development. Early exposure of electronic media in early life (< 2 years old) gives an impact on language, but it still inconclusive. We made a study aiming at revealing the impact of early exposure of electronic screen on language development and autistic-like behavior. Results showed that children who spent viewing ? 3 hours per day had language delay and short attention span, while children who spent viewing ? 3 hours per day had language delay, short attention span, and hyperactivity. While, we found that more than a half of children (66.6%) had no parents-child interaction during the exposure, speech delayed and short attention had been reported in all cases, and hyperactivity was found in 66.6% children.

[niyad]

38. Thank you so much. I had not heard of this before. Most interesting, so I

will be looking at it further.

[Prairie_Seagull]

46. Count me in. I definately need a deeper dive into this. Rec'd post. nt

[Silent3]

25. Perhaps cellphones and modern media have something to do with it, but I've seen general ignorance for a long time now

About 20 years ago, talking to a fellow software engineer at work, I discovered he had no idea about the vast difference in scale between out solar system and our galaxy. I can't remember the exact confusion he had, but I think he had wondered out loud how many galaxies there were in the solar system.

For me it was shocking that an adult, and a reasonably competent software engineer who had a college degree, would not know that a galaxy is hugely bigger than the solar system or any star system.

I remember 30 years ago being at a McDonald's when someone in front of me had placed an order worth around $4, handed the girl at the register a $20, and she tried to give him around $4 back as change for his $20. She must have keyed something in wrong, but since her register said the change was around $4, that's what it was as far as she was concerned. She had no sense whatsoever of the rough magnitude of the numbers involved, no ability to recognize she was short-changing the customer by a lot. A manager was required to sort out the problem.

For a long time now I've held a very dim view of what constitutes "common knowledge".

[niyad]

39. Your software engineer coworker is a shocking example, for sure. How

is such ignorance in an apparently educated person even possible??? ben carson is a perfect example. .supposedly a good neurosurgeon. .flat earther. WTAF???

And, sadly, your mcdonald's example is far too common. I remember reading years ago about a mcdonalds that had to close for a day because their registers, where everything was images, malfunctioned, and none of the staff could function manually. I actually just encountered something similar. Was at my Dollar Tree store getting just a few items, so I was paying cash. The bill came to 4.06. I did not want 94 cents in change, so I gave the clerk a five and a quarter. He stared at the money, confused. I said, " you owe me a dollar and 19 cents." He continued to stare, so I repeated it. He said, in apology, that he was not good with numbers. A cashier, not good with numbers. I just took my change and keft.

[PortTack]

26. Maybe high on something?

[niyad]

40. Had not thought of that.

[pfitz59]

28. I experience this daily

More than lack of education. A lack of curiosity, empathy and more. Too many folks, especially youth are disinterested.

[niyad]

41. I am fortunate that I do not encounter this often, other than reading

about the braindead magats.

[LeftInTX]

30. I see this all the time. There are people in Texas who think Joe Biden is "Greg Abbott's boss"

"Biden is the boss, he can stop Abbott any day, why doesn't he?".

These people were their 70's and were long time Democratic voters.

[niyad]

42. That is beyond sad.

[Hugin]

33. It's sad to say...

I believe the individual you encountered is more the rule than an exception in these times.

[niyad]

43. I guess I will have to get used to it, a truly depressing thought.

[Hugin]

44. ...

[shrike3]

50. Does not surprise me at all.

Last edited Mon Mar 4, 2024, 04:34 PM - Edit history (1)

People have no idea how their government works, and they don't want to know. They'd rather watch cat videos.

As for Americans' knowledge of history, let me tell you a story. I was at a gathering and started talking to a young man. He was expressing his astonishment at all the youtube videos (I know) of young people (his age) who didn't know who the American colonies fought against to win their freedom. "They were guessing, 'France, Japan.' How could they not know?" Then a middle-aged woman listening in -- I am not making this up -- said, "So, who was it? Germany?" The young man and I looked at each other. I said, "England. We won our freedom from England." She said, "Oh."

[PatSeg]

54. I've seen videos of relatively young people (not always though)

who had no idea who we fought in World War II or even who won. If nothing else, they should have picked this up from movies and television. Apparently, there isn't much world history being covered on Tik Tok.

[sarisataka]

55. " I have no clue"

most accurate statement ever

[niyad]

59. Oh dear, did I miss a troll?

[sarisataka]

62. Here today

and gone today

[niyad]

63. That is what I get for going to the store! I miss all the fun!

[Basic LA]

56. My neighbor asked if I was Republican.

I said no, I'm on Social Security & Medicare, given to us by Democrats. He shook his head, puzzled. I said, Well, you've
heard of Roosevelt and LBJ, haven't you?
He said No, he wasn't good at those things.
Now, this man is in his fifties and an avid Trumper.

[niyad]

60. That is just so sad.

[no_hypocrisy]

57. Recently, my friend's son never heard of Hitler

and thought he did some really good things for Germany.

Except that he’s 44 and his father’s family comes from Germany.

He was condemned for his foolishness

[niyad]

61. That is just appalling.

[LiberalFighter]

64. Wow!! Have to wonder about his family.

My ancestors all came from different parts of Germany.

They all came to the USA around 1860. Most if not all settled in German communities. Mostly in Wisconsin. Some went to Minnesota, Iowa or South Dakota.

Out of all the descendants of my ancestors over 1,000 served in the military from the Revolutionary to Vietnam. Many of them during World War II.

[ecstatic]

67. 44 and never heard of hitler? I call bullshit.

He was lying.

[no_hypocrisy]

68. Unfortunately no.

He enraged his uncle by texting a photo of Hitler.

He was being enlisted by a faction of The Proud Boys in his UPS warehouse.

Generally, this guy is fairly clueless about everything. Downright stupid.

[MOMFUDSKI]

65. BIL is very low info. He floats through his day.

No curiosity. Doesn’t read. When you try to impart some info he doesn’t want to engage. Seems he feels inferior to anyone that knows more than he. He is right!

[niyad]

66. He feels inferior, and yet, will do nothing to correct the situation? What

a friggin' waste!