I have no problem at all with RFK Jr being on the ballot in all 50 states

[The Contrarian]

If we are going to be the party that defends and protects democracy, they we should support people having options and free will to make their own choices. Thats what democracy is all about. Even if the options and choices are ones we don't like.

An editorial comment.

[Freddie]

1. IMO he'll take more votes from TFG than our side

[WarGamer]

3. If polling can be believed... reality is the opposite.

[Freddie]

4. I don't know how many fellow Dems are anti-vax, if any

[Ocelot II]

7. Some are. Not many, but there's a lunatic fringe

that are suspicious of all established medicine - the woo crowd that's into crystals and homeopathic "medicine" and that still believe without any evidence that vaccinations cause autism.

[Polybius]

13. Oh, I know one

He's way to the left of me, but he believes in BS conspiracies.

[MagickMuffin]

103. That's one big broad brush you got there

I always vote for Democrats and I’m into the woo crowd and therefore on the lunatic fringe!

[Melon]

115. There some democrats that have been negatively affected by the vaccine

The numbers may not be high but it’s also not a myth. It doesn’t mean we aren’t democrat.

[Ocelot II]

117. There will always be a few people who have adverse reactions

to some vaccines. If you had a reaction, though, that doesn’t mean that vaccines are bad or even that particular one is. It was a rare individual reaction. Anti-vaxxers are opposed to all vaccines, for reasons that are ignorant and not based on science. Most Democrats are accepting of science.

[All Mixed Up]

11. Plenty of low-information Democrats too.

They may not even know he's anti-vax. They just see his name and what it's associated with and support him by default.

Or they know but vaccines aren't their top issue.

[LeftInTX]

18. Low info voters just see the name and think he's a good Democrat.

We had to set someone straight about him here.

[woodsprite]

37. That's why I absolutely hated his hijacking JFKs campaign ad.

People will only see the name and think he’s a new JFK.

[MorbidButterflyTat]

72. The Kennedy name won't mean much to younger voters

and people who remember the difference between John and Bobby Kennedy, know better.

[Diamond_Dog]

29. I know one

Lifelong Dem voter but he also has a major distrust of doctors and pharmaceuticals.

[Jose Garcia]

56. I suspect right now most of his support is from people who dislike both Trump and Biden and/or

have fond memories of JFK and RFK.

[karynnj]

53. Polling with reguard to third parties is almost always much higher than when people vote

I suspect that there might even be a difference between Democratic leaning RFK JR voters and Trump leaning ones.

[DemocraticPatriot]

30. Earlier polls seemed to show that result,

and that results would seem to make more sense, with Jr being an anti-vaxxer and all---

but more recent polls seem to show him taking more votes from President Biden, disturbingly enough...

[thucythucy]

2. If we are going to be a party that defends and protects democracy

we need to be sure that Donald Trump is defeated in November, and that the GOP is driven into political exile until it abandons its attempt to overturn the Constitution.

Anything that interferes with or compromises that effort is highly unwelcome.

Another editorial comment.

[jrthin]

5. With your reasoning, I guess you approve Ralph Nader running, allowing the

election going to Bush.

[Gore1FL]

9. SCOTUS gave FL to Bush. It wasn't Ralph Nader. nt

[edisdead]

14. Ahahahahahaha

ok.

[Gore1FL]

24. Gore got more votes than Bush in FL. Nader didn't stop them from counting. SCOTUS did.

"Ahahahahahaha," "ok."

[AZSkiffyGeek]

27. If he got more votes then why did he keep trying to get the votes recounted?

Gore DIDN'T get more votes, otherwise he would've won when SCOTUS shut down the counting.

[Gore1FL]

41. He tried to get FL to recount so the votes that he had more of would be counted.

The media recount demonstrated this.

[jrthin]

19. Ralph Nader helped to create the problem (hanging chads) that

forced the election into the hands of the Supremes.

[mcar]

22. Ralph Nader cause the crisis in the first place

After promising to not campaign in battleground states. He lied and did so anyway. Fck that guy.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

43. Nader had 90,000 votes in Florida

Without Nader, Gore would have won Florida easily

[karynnj]

55. In addition, Gore would have LIKELY have won NH without Nader on the ballot

That would have been enough even if FL cheated.

[Demsrule86]

61. No, Ralph Nader cos us that election without his candidacy it would not have ended up at SCOTUS.

It wouldn't have been that close.

[Gore1FL]

65. The problem with that narrative is that it disregards the literal GOP coup.

2020 differs from 2000 only in that they didn't get away with it in 2020.

[Celerity]

70. How Florida Democrats torpedoed Gore

Nader only drew 24,000 Democrats to his cause, yet 308,000 Democrats voted for Bush.

If the vice president had locked up his party's traditional base in the Sunshine State, the election wouldn't be tied up in the courts.

https://www.salon.com/2000/11/28/hightower/

PUBLISHED NOVEMBER 28, 2000

snip

How is the Democratic Party establishment dealing with this crisis of legitimacy and its own declining numbers? By blaming Ralph Nader. Partisans wail that Nader denied Gore the few hundred votes he needed to prevail on election night. Indeed, Nader polled some 95,000 votes in Florida, which prompted New York socialite and Hillary Clinton moneyman Harry Evans to blurt angrily, "I want to kill Ralph Nader." Hold your horses, please. Ralph's not the message -- he's only the messenger. Again, the politicos and pundits are ignoring another set of election statistics in Florida that are way more revealing about the core weakness of the corporate Democrats. I'm grateful to Tim Wise, a Nashville writer and activist who dug into the Florida tallies and exit polls to find some stunning results that refute the "Ralph did it" assault. Wise's full report will appear in a forthcoming issue of Z magazine, but the essence of it is that Gore was the problem, not Nader. Start with two constituent groups that Democratic nominees usually win in the Sunshine State:

1) Seniors. By a 51-47 percent margin, Gore lost the over-65 vote in Florida. Bush got 67,000 more senior votes than Gore did, even after all the Democratic scare talk about vanishing Social Security benefits. Had Gore simply broken even with this constituency, he would have won.

2) White Women. This group typically votes Democratic in Florida, or splits evenly. Gore lost them to Bush by 53-44 percent. Had he gotten 50 percent of these votes, he'd have added 65,000 votes to his total -- plenty enough to have put the state in his column election night.

Now it gets really ugly for the Gore campaign, for there are two other Florida constituencies that cost them more votes than Nader did. First, Democrats. Yes, Democrats! Nader only drew 24,000 Democrats to his cause, yet 308,000 Democrats voted for Bush. Hello. If Gore had taken even 1 percent of these Democrats from Bush, Nader's votes wouldn't have mattered. Second, liberals. Sheesh. Gore lost 191,000 self-described liberals to Bush, compared to less than 34,000 who voted for Nader.

Why would Democrats and liberals vote for (gag) Bush? Some Democrats may have been so appalled by Clinton's personal behavior and Gore's fundraising escapades that they flipped all the way to Bush, while others found no defining economic difference between Gore and Bush, so they voted on the basis of George W.'s (false) claim to be the integrity candidate. Some liberals noted that Bush actually has proposed less of an increase in the Pentagon's already-bloated budget than Gore did, and some were so angered by the vice president's atrocious record of selling out working families, environmentalists and farmers that they wanted to give him the double-whammy of taking a vote from him and giving it to Bush. In any event, Gore failed to close the deal with these voters -- a fact that has nothing to do with Nader.

snip

[uponit7771]

91. THIS!!!

[lapucelle]

109. Nader's campaign manager wrote that November 2000 Salon piece.

It would have helped if Jim Hightower had provided a link to his data.

I guess it was easier for Hightower to blame Democrats than to take responsibility and apologize for being an architect of Ralph Nader's third party vanity campaign. Nader and Hightower knew what was at stake.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

6. I strongly disagree

RFK Jr. is a tool of Bannon and company who is trying to re-elect TFG.

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

I do NOT support a dirty trick by Bannon to re-elect TFG

[Polybius]

15. Depending on the polls, he's polling anywhere between 7% and 18%

Can't stand the guy, but it's hard to argue that he shouldn't be on the ballot in all 50 states. He may even make the debates.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

17. RFK is a tool of Bannon/TFG. I remember Nader being used by Rove to defeat Al Gore

I will never forgive Nader. Rove funded Nader in 2000 and 2004 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/eric-zuesse/ralph-nader-was-indispens_b_4235065.html

Furthermore, Karl Rove and the Republican Party knew this, and so they nurtured and crucially assisted Nader’s campaigns, both in 2000 and in 2004. On 27 October 2000, the AP’s Laura Meckler headlined “GOP Group To Air Pro-Nader TV Ads.” She opened: “Hoping to boost Ralph Nader in states where he is threatening to hurt Al Gore, a Republican group is launching TV ads featuring Nader attacking the vice president [Mr. Gore]. ... ‘Al Gore is suffering from election year delusion if he thinks his record on the environment is anything to be proud of,’ Nader says [in the commercial]. An announcer interjects: ‘What’s Al Gore’s real record?’ Nader says: ‘Eight years of principles betrayed and promises broken.’” Meckler’s report continued: “A spokeswoman for the Green Party nominee said that his campaign had no control over what other organizations do with Nader’s speeches.” Bush’s people - the group sponsoring this particular ad happened to be the Republican Leadership Council - knew exactly what they were doing, even though the liberal suckers who voted so carelessly for Ralph Nader obviously did not. Anyone who drives a car the way those liberal fools voted, faces charges of criminal negligence, at the very least. But this time, the entire nation crashed as a result; not merely a single car.....

On July 9th, the San Francisco Chronicle headlined “GOP Doners Funding Nader: Bush Supporters Give Independent’s Bid a Financial Lift,” and reported that the Nader campaign “has received a recent windfall of contributions from deep-pocketed Republicans with a history of big contributions to the party,” according to “an analysis of federal records.” Perhaps these contributors were Ambassador Egan’s other friends. Mr. Egan’s wife was now listed among the Nader contributors. Another listed was “Nijad Fares, a Houston businessman, who donated $200,000 to the Bush inaugural committee and who donated $2,000 each to the Nader effort and the Bush campaign this year.” Furthermore, Ari Berman reported 7 October 2004 at the Nation, under “Swift Boat Veterans for Nader,” that some major right-wing funders of a Republican smear campaign against Senator John Kerry’s Vietnam service contributed also $13,500 to the Nader campaign, and that “the Republican Party of Michigan gathered ninety percent of Nader’s signatures in their state” (90%!) to place Nader on the ballot so Bush could win that swing state’s 17 electoral votes. Clearly, the word had gone out to Bush’s big contributors: Help Ralphie boy! In fact, on 15 September 2005, John DiStaso of the Manchester Union-Leader, reported that, “A year ago, as the Presidential general election campaign raged in battleground state New Hampshire, consumer advocate Ralph Nader found his way onto the ballot, with the help of veteran Republican strategist David Carney and the Carney-owned Norway Hill Associates consulting firm.”

It was obvious, based upon the 2000 election results, that a dollar contributed to Nader in the 2004 contest would probably be a more effective way to achieve a Bush win against Kerry in the U.S. Presidential election than were perhaps even ten dollars contributed to Bush. This was a way of peeling crucial votes off from Bush’s real opponent - votes that otherwise would have gone to the Democrat. That’s why the smartest Republican money in the 2004 Presidential election was actually going to Nader, even more so than to Bush himself: these indirect Bush contributions provided by far the biggest bang for the right-wing buck.

Why do you want TFG to be re-elected?

[Polybius]

20. That is irrelevant to my statement

I support democracy, even if that means putting people I can't stand on the ballot. He's polling on average over 10%, and you want him off the ballot? Did you want Ross Perot kicked off too? How about the Libertarian and Green candidates? If you answered yes to all, then I commend you for your consistence.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

33. Why do you want TFG to be re-elected?

The facts presented are indeed relevant to this thread. I believe in our democratic form of government and Bannon/TFG are out to destroy this form of government. Rove was able to use Nader in 2000 to defeat Al Gore and as a result we lost Section 5 of the Voting Rights Act, went to war in Iraq based on lies and had Citizens United become the law of the land.

Just as Rove funded Nader, Bannon and right wing sources are funding RFK Jr.

Link to tweet

No labels is a GOP/TFG scam to help TFG win. Rove used and funded Nader in 2000 and TFG was elected due to Jill Stein and Sarandon. The GOP uses third parties to steal elections.

Link to tweet

https://newrepublic.com/article/172059/no-labels-took-100000-clarence-thomas-buddy-harlan-crow

The New Republic obtained a document with figures showing that between 2019 and 2021, Crow donated over $130,000 to No Labels. Crow was considered a “whale”-level donor by the organization—an august status reserved for only the most generous donors. Crow referred other donors to No Labels, ones who earned the “whale,” “dolphin,” and lesser “minnow” status. By 2021, Crow had steered nearly two dozen other donors to No Labels, the information provided to The New Republic shows.

Officially, No Labels’ mission is to create a space for moderates on both the left and the right to come together and find solutions above the partisan fray. But the group has managed to anger Democrats at times by endorsing conservative candidates such as then-Representative Cory Gardner in Colorado, who was running for Senate against moderate Democrat Mark Udall in 2014. No Labels also labeled Donald Trump a “problem solver” in the early days of the 2016 campaign because he signed a piece of paper No Labels circulated supposedly committing to enacting certain reforms if elected.....

Crow is the Texas billionaire who was the subject of an extensive ProPublica investigation into his ties to Thomas. In secret, Crow had been giving lavish gifts to the high court justice and bought a home that Thomas owned with his mother and brother. Thomas did not disclose those gifts, which is most likely a violation of federal law......

There’s an important through line between No Labels and Crow, and it’s not a passion for bipartisanship. Rather, it’s indulging conservatives under the flag of bipartisanship. They both argue that the best solutions are ones born out of moderation, with both Democrats and Republicans involved. But Crow’s ardor for Thomas, who has been found to be the most conservative justice on the bench by one academic analysis, doesn’t exactly square with love of bipartisanship, and the actions by No Labels suggest that the group would rather create an opening for conservatives to thrive.

Bush won in 2000 due to Rove funding Nader. TFG won in 2016 due to Russia and Jill Stein. Harlan Crow is trying to help TFG in 2024 with this faux third party

Do you want to lose our democratic form of government? You may want to look at Project 2025 to see what will happen to our form of government if Bannon succeeds in using a patsy like RFK Jr. to re-elect TFG.

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

You may be comfortable with TFG being re-elected due to the use of third parties by Harlan Crow and Steve Bannon. I am not comfortable.

[Polybius]

45. Why do you want democracy suppressed?

If they are polling 10%+ nationally they deserve to be on the ballot period.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

66. So you want Harlan Crow and Steve Bannon to succeed in stealing the 2024 election?

Are you also in favor of the destruction of our democratic form of government and want to see TFG installed as a dictator? I like our democratic form government and would not want to see Bannon and Crow succeed in their efforts to install a dictator in the White House. Why do you want to reward Bannon's and Crow's efforts.

[Polybius]

90. So what would you do, take every candidate off the ballot except for Biden?

What about Trump, the Libertarian, and Green Party candidates? Should they be on the ballot? All three are bad.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

92. The issue is people like Karl Rove, Steve Bannon and Harlan Crow using third parties to elect people like W and TFG

You may have been happy to see Karl Rove fund the Green Party/Nader in 2000 in order to elect George W. Bush. see https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=18734238 Due to Rove's funding of Nader, we got Citizens United, the gutting of the Voting Rights Act and the invasion of Iraq based on lies.

Putin used Jill Stein to defeat Hillary in 2016.


Stein and Putin gave the GOP control of the SCOTUS and the overturning of Roe v. Wade. Now Bannon, Harlan Crow and right wingers are funding RFK Jr. and No Labels.

I object to cynical and unethical funding of third parties for the goal of subverting the election.

I am worried that RFK Jr. and No Labels may re-elect TFG and end our democratic form of government. Do you want TFG to be re-elected and do you want to see our Democratic form of government end?

[Demsrule86]

57. Putting a fake candidate on the ballot who' only purpose is to defeat the Democratic

candidate has nothing to do with democracy...Kennedy hangs out with Bannon and accepts money from Republican donors. I have no idea why you seem to support such things...but I do wonder.

[Polybius]

88. Re-read why and you'll understand perfectly n/t

[LetMyPeopleVote]

93. I reread and your arguments do not support your claims

Do you approve of Harlan Crow and Steve Bannon using RFK Jr. and No Labels to re-elect TFG and end our democratic form of government?

[Polybius]

96. No I don't

Do you think candidates with over 5% deserve to be on the ballot?

[LetMyPeopleVote]

97. So you do NOT care if Harlan Crow, Steve Bannon and others steal elections using third party candidates?

I have been volunteering in voter protection for many years. The use of third party candidates to steal elections is a real problem. Karl Rove funded and supported Nader in 2000. Putin supported and use Jill Stein in 2016 and now Bannon and Harlan Crow are busy. Why will not recognize the facts that people like Rove, Putin, Crow and Bannon are engaging in election fraud by supporting bogus candidates? Do you want Trump to be re-elected? Are you hoping to see our Democratic form of government end?

[Polybius]

98. You misread

My "No, I do not" answer was in response to the question asking "Do you approve of Harlan Crow and Steve Bannon using RFK Jr. and No Labels to re-elect TFG and end our democratic form of government?"

[LetMyPeopleVote]

99. Why are you defending Karl Rove, Putin, Steve Bannon and Harlan Crow?

You want to put RFK Jr. on the ballot in all 50 states in order to make Putin, Harlan Crow and Steve Bannon happy and aid their efforts to re-elect TFG. Why do you want to destroy our democratic form of government? Are you happy that Rove's funding of Nader in 2000 resulted in Citizens United, the gutting of the Voting Rights Act and the invasion of Iraq? Are you happy that Putin's efforts to aid Jill Stein resulted in the overturn of Roe. v. Wade and rape victims being forced to bear the children of their rapists? Are you happy that Bannon and Harlan Crow are going to use RFK Jr. to steal the 2024 election and destroy our Democratic form of government?

I am not in favor of allowing people like Rove, Putin, Harlan Crow and Steve Bannon using third party candidates to steal elections.

[Polybius]

101. Why do you keep lying about my record?

There's no post here where I ever defended any of those creeps.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

102. Why are you accusing people of hating democracy for not supporting Bannon's and Crow's efforts?

Your accusations that people who do not support Steve Bannon's and Harlan Crow's efforts to steal the 2024 election of not supporting democracy are so sad that they are funny. You continue to advocate that we need to support Bannon's and Crow's efforts to steal the next election and if we do not agree with these efforts, we are not supporting democracy.

RFK Jr. is the just the latest chapter of gop goons using third party candidates to steal election. In addition to the successful efforts in the 2000 and 2016 elections, TFG and Roger Stone tried this trick with Kanye West hoping to peel off African American votes in the 2020 election.

Link to tweet

In 2016, the GOP and their affiliates worked hard to get Kanye West onto the ballot to try to steal the 2020 election.

Link to tweet

https://www.npr.org/2020/08/13/901534846/heres-how-republicans-are-boosting-kanye-west-s-presidential-campaign

Here's a look at some of the efforts to get West on state ballots:

VERMONT
Republican Chuck Wilton originally signed on as one of the three electors for West in Vermont. He also was elected by the Vermont Republican Party months before to be a delegate for Trump at the Republican National Convention, along with his wife, Wendy, a Trump appointee......

WISCONSIN
Lane Ruhland, a former legal counsel for the Wisconsin Republican Party, was seen last week dropping off signatures for West to qualify in Wisconsin.

Ruhland, who did not respond to a request for comment, represented the Trump campaign in a lawsuit at the end of July......

OHIO
An attorney at the Ohio law firm Isaac Wiles filed West's paperwork in the state. That firm has reportedly received thousands of dollars in legal consulting fees from the state House and Senate Republican campaign committees since 2015.

COLORADO
ABC reported that of Colorado's nine electors for West, four are current or former GOP operatives, including a former Colorado Republican political director.

Vice News reported that Rachel George, a GOP strategist who runs her own communications firm and had worked for Republican Sen. Cory Gardner when he was in the House, sent an email to contacts asking them to sign up to support West.....

Gillespie said there are dimensions to establishment Republicans' support of West that go beyond political strategy.

"I'm actually really concerned about the ethics of it — not just the allegation of trying to support a third party candidate to play spoiler in an election, but just the exploitation of taking advantage of somebody who's obviously not gotten his mental illness under control," she said.

Bannon, Crow, TFG and Putin would all love to see RFK Jr. to be on the ballot in all 50 states. These groups are working hard to get RFK Jr and No Labels onto the ballot in a number of states. This trick did not work in 2020 and hopefully this tactic will not work this cycle.

Again, why are you supporting the efforts of Putin, Steve Bannon and Harlan Crow to steal the upcoming election? The GOP operatives who were assisting Kanye West in the 2020 election also claimed that they were supporting democracy.

Accusing me of not supporting democracy is amusing. I have been active in voter protection efforts since the 2024 election and just spent a couple of hours this week getting ready to work in a virtual war room on primary day. One thing about Democratic voter protection efforts, is that we do not care who we are helping but only that all persons who are eligible to vote get to vote. Over the years I have helped a number of republicans in getting their votes counted.

Again, your claims that anyone who does not support getting RFK Jr. on the ballot in all 50 states does not support democracy reminds of some comments made by Roger Stone and Steve Bannon.

[Polybius]

110. Why are you continuing to blatantly lie about me?

Wanting them on the ballot doesn't equal support.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

112. Why are you lying about people who oppose Bannon's efforts to steal the 2024 election?

You are claiming that people who have legitimate reasons for opposing the use of RFK Jr. to steal the 2024 election do NOT believe in democracy. I simply find the claim that anyone who disagrees with your position does not believe in democracy to be sad and wrong. I was headed to Florida in 2020 for the revised/additional recount when Bush v. Gore came down. I did go to Florida as part of the Kerry Edwards voter protection team and I have been working on voter protection ever since. I will be a war room captain for the primary on Tuesday.

I simply find the claims that democracy requires RFK to be on the ballot in all 50 states to be wrong and ignores that the only persons who are pushing RFK Jr. are people like Roger Stone, Steve Bannon, Michael Flynn and Putin.

Link to tweet

Any candidate backed by both Steve Bannon and Roger Stone has to be garbage.

In a surprise to exactly nobody, Robert F. Kennedy Jr. is going to announce that he's running as an independent.

Robert F. Kennedy Jr. has ZERO chance of winning.
A vote for him is a completely wasted vote.

I'll say it again: If you plan on voting for that conspiracy theory clown, you're voting for trump.

Don't make the same 2016 mistakes in 2024, please.

As has been pointed out on this thread, Karl Rove used Nader in 2000, Putin used Stein in 2016 and TFG attempted to use Kanye West to steal elections in the past. If you need further proof, look at who is funding RFK Jr.

Link to tweet

Again, I have trouble seeing why anyone who actually cares about democracy would support efforts to steal the 2024 election by supporting RFK Jr. You have presented no facts to support your claims and so it is difficult to understand how anyone who claims to care about democracy would want RFK Jr. on the ballot in all 50 states. I would love to see you try to support your claims.

[Polybius]

114. Ok, so you support having Biden run unopposed in the general election

You're free to have those beliefs.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

119. I believe in our democratic form of government and will oppose Bannon's and Stone's plan to destroy democracy

I believe in our democratic form of government, and I have been working to protect this form for a very long time. Our democratic form of government is under attack by Putin, Roger Stone and Steve Bannon who are, with your approval, using RFK Jr. to steal the 2024 election and destroy our democratic form of government. If Putin's, Stone's and Bannon's plan are successful, TFG will use Project 2025 to eliminate our democratic form of government. That is not acceptable to me which is why I am opposed to the plan to use RFK Jr. to steal the 2024 election. Under your definition of democracy, Putin's, Bannon's and Stone's plan is okay. I disagree.
 
President Biden is not running unopposed even if the primaries. President Biden will be running in November in a race that will determine if we get keep our democratic form of government. If President Biden loses in the November general election, we can kiss our democratic form of government goodbye. You may be happy with that result, but I and others will be fighting to preserve our democratic form of government.

I am still sad that you are pushing the lie that anyone who disagrees with your view that RFK Jr. needs to be on the ballot in all 50 states does not believe in democracy. I disagree with your "definition" of democracy. Roger Stone, Steve Bannon, Flynne and Putin are pushing RFK Jr. to try to steal the election just like Rove did in 2000 with Nader and Putin did with Stein in 2016. I was a Clinton delegate to the 2016 National Convention where Putin released hacked materials to help TFG. I saw first-hand how effective Putin's efforts were at the convention. In 2020, TFG tried to use Kanye West to take votes from President Biden. Luckily the 2020 attempt to steal the election failed.

This cycle, Steve Bannon, Roger Stone and company are pushing RFK Jr. to steal the election.

Link to tweet

It is sad that you are supporting the efforts of Bannon, Stone and Putin to steal the 2024 election. I actually believe in democracy and I want to defend out democratic form of government.

[Polybius]

120. Bannon is a big part of Trump too

Do you support Trump being on the ballot or not?

[LetMyPeopleVote]

122. If TFG is the nominee of the republican party, then he will be on the ballot

The 2024 election will be between President Biden who supports our democratic form of government vs. TFG who will destroy our democratic form of government. Putin, Bannon and Stone want to steal this election by using RFK Jr. as tool to steal this election. We saw this work in 2000 with Rove funding Nader and in 2016 with Putin supporting Jill Stein and otherwise working to steal the election.

I am shocked that any person who believes in democracy and protecting our democratic form of government would support Putin's, Bannon's and Stone's efforts to use RFK Jr. to steal this election.

Link to tweet

This election will be the most important election of our lifetime because democracy is on the ballot

My definition of democracy means that we should not support attempts to steal this election. You seem to have a very different definition of democracy.

[Polybius]

124. I know that Trump will be on the ballot if he's the nominee

I'm asking if you support Biden running unopposed.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

125. I believe in and support our democratic form of government and more importantly I understand how our system works

I both understand and support our democratic form of government. I have worked on voter protection efforts for year and right now I am the DNC LBJ voter protection database and a zoom call for statewide voter protection for the party. I have had a couple of poll watchers check in with me already.

Since you appear confused about our system, America has a two-party system which each major party being on the ballot in all 50 states and relevant territories. That means that the nominees of each party will be on the ballot without having to go through the ballot access process for non-major party candidates. Even if TFG drops out due to medical, legal or financial conditions, there will be a GOP on the ballot in November. Some are speculating that Nikki Haley has stayed in just in case TFG has to drop out so that she will be the heir apparent.

Unlike Bannon, Stone, Putin and others who are trying to use RFK Jr. to cheat, I support the two-party system. The Republican Party will have a nominee on the ballot in November in addition to a handful of minor/third/fringe parties. Given yesterday's ruling by the SCOTUS, it is clear that we cannot count on the courts to prevent TFG from being re-elected and must work hard to keep this election from being stolen such as what happen in 2000 with Nader and 2016 with Putin/Stein. That is one reason why I am in the statewide virtual boiler/war room right now.

The only persons who are pushing RFK Jr. to get onto the ballot in all 50 states are people who what to cheat the system such Putin, Roger Stone and Steve Bannon.

Link to tweet

I am sad that you are pushing for RFK Jr. to be on the ballot in all 50 states and that you are supporting the efforts of Putin, Stone, Bannon and TFG to steal this election.

Again, just because you are supporting Bannon's efforts to steal this election does not mean that I do. President Joe Biden is going to running against the GOP nominee and a couple of third party/minor/fringe candidates. I support President Biden running against other candidates. This is how our system is supposed to work.

Again, good luck with your efforts to help Bannon and company try to steal the election with RFK Jr.

[Polybius]

126. RFK Jr. is a terrible candidate with bad positions

But I prefer to "LetThePeople" vote for whomever they want.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

127. "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke

The only reason Bannon, Stone and Putin are supporting RFK Jr. is to try to steal this election and some big money is being used for this purpose . You may support these efforts but I will do my best to speak out against these attempts to steal this election.

Link to tweet

Bannon , Stone and the TFG donors supporting RFK Jr.'s efforts to get onto as many state ballots as possible appreciate your support.

Link to tweet

[Polybius]

129. I believe in LettingMyPeopleVote for whoever they want

Even if that choice stinks. Hey, it's democracy. It's not always pretty.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

130. Steven Bannon, Roger Stone and Putin thank you for your efforts to re-elect TFG and to destroy our democratic govt.

It was not pretty when Rove used and funded Nader in 2000. As a result of people like Michael Moore and Bill Maher, we got Citizens United, the gutting of the Voting Rights Act and the invasion of Iraq. In 2016, Putin funded Stein and used WikiLeaks to defeat Hillary Clinton and as a result of Susan Sarandon, Cornel West, the DSA and others we got TFG which in turn lead to the gutting of Roe and the most corrupt SCOTUS in history.

Putin, Bannon and Stone are counting of people not caring about democracy and are happy that there are people who will not opposed their evil plans. I am glad that you are happy doing nothing to oppose the efforts to destroy our democratic form of government. "I know you're tired, discouraged, and don't know the impact one person can make, but evil doesn't rest while you ignore it."

Link to tweet

[Polybius]

131. Tell them you're welcome

LetTheAmericanPeopleVote, and hopefully it will be Biden. I'm pretty confident that it will be.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

132. "But for Ralph Nader and Jill Stein, there would not have been a Republican elected president this century."

You should be happy that the plan to re-elect TFG may work using RFK Jr. and third party candidates. Steve Bannon must be happy to have your backing in his plan to re-elect TFG

Link to tweet

[Polybius]

133. That was a delayed response

Busy week?

[LetMyPeopleVote]

134. I was in the voter protection war room a couple of days

[Polybius]

135. After last night's speech, there's nothing to worry about

Biden will defeat Trump by at least 5 or 6 points.

[womanofthehills]

108. Kennedy said he cut off contact with Bannon.

I don’t think in a democracy we can tell people they can’t run.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

113. Follow the money. RFK JR. is being funded by TFG supporters

I do not believe RFK Jr. in part because Bannon/Stone and company are using TFG supporters to fund RFK Jr.

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/aug/02/robert-f-kennedy-jr-republican-donor-super-pac

A Super Pac affiliated with Robert F Kennedy Jr, the anti-vaccine conspiracy theorist running for president as a Democrat, owes half its cash to a longtime Republican mega-donor and Trump backer, according to campaign finance reports filed on Monday.

The group, American Values 2024, reported receiving $5m from Timothy Mellon, a wealthy businessman from Wyoming, according to NBC News and Politico. It registered with the Federal Election Commission (FEC) in April, days before Kennedy officially launched his campaign, according to FEC records.

Mellon, 81, is the grandson of Andrew Mellon, a former US treasury secretary who made his fortune in banking. The Texas Tribune reported that Mellon, a top donor to Donald Trump’s 2020 re-election effort, supported controversial immigration laws and was responsible for 98% of the contributions to the Texas governor Greg Abbott’s fund to build a border wall. Mellon, who twice gave $10m to the Trump-aligned America First Action Super Pac in 2020, also used racist stereotypes to describe Black people in an autobiography he self-published in 2015.

Bannon, Roger Stone and Flynne are supporting RFK Jr. just as Rove supported Nader in 2000 and TFG supported West in 2020.

Link to tweet

RFK Jr. is merely the tool of Roger Stone, Steve Bannon and TFG to try to steal the 2024 election

[womanofthehills]

85. Kennedy recently said he will not go on Bannon's podcast again

He said he loves Cheryl & Cheryl said she will divorce him if he goes on Bannon’s podcast again.

[womanofthehills]

86. Cheryl told Kennedy she would divorce him

If he ever goes on Bannon’s podcast again. Kennedy recently said he loves his wife - so he will never do a second podcast with Bannon.

[lame54]

32. I don't know if you have a point not but I do know...

He's a fake democrat

[Polybius]

46. Oh, he stinks

I'm not advocating for him, just that he has enough support to be on the ballot.

[lark]

35. Nope, not hard at all.

He would have to have enough signatures in all 50 state & I pray hard that never happens as it will give the election to tsf. Kennedy has to earn the right to be on the ballots, and it would tear down our democracy by allowing tsf to win - which is why he's being paid to do this.

[LeftInTX]

95. He's on the ballot in AZ and GA. He's working on MI. That's all that matters.

[womanofthehills]

106. He's also on the ballot in Hawaii, Utah & NH

And about to get on in MI and South Carolina. He has lots of volunteers who are getting him on the ballots.

[lees1975]

58. He's fallen to under 5%, at least among the 538 polls.

hasn't been at 7% for more than a month now. A fading fad.

[WarGamer]

71. HarrisX poll from yesterday he's at 14% in a 5 way race.

[Demsrule86]

59. Kennedy should not make the ballot and Biden should not debate him...he will receive no delegates

and is not a Democratic candidate. He is a has-been whose sole purpose is to defeat the Democratic candidate Joe Biden. Kennedy's so-called candidacy should not be supported by any Democrat.

I do not believe polls that show him with any sort of support (self-serving bullshit polls). Trump must lose...so spare me the high-minded rhetoric if you don't mind. I would appreciate it if some would stop inflating Kennedy's support and chances. He has neither support nor a chance to win the presidency. His only purpose is to hurt Joe Biden.

[womanofthehills]

107. Does anyone really think there will be debates?

I doubt it.

[The Contrarian]

63. So then you think he shouldn't be on the ballot?

Should Democrats actively work to keep him off the ballot?

[LetMyPeopleVote]

64. RFK Jr. is being used as a tool to facilitate the stealing of the 2024 election

Bannon and Crow are working hard to reelect TFG by using RFK Jr as a tool and these efforts should be opposed.

[sheshe2]

105. All you need to know about Jr...

Is that Bannon supports him and is embraced by tfg.

[bucolic_frolic]

8. Democracy is about electing leaders not wasting your vote on delusional charlatans

Contrarians are perverse, it's like the friendly side of paranoia.

[nevergiveup]

10. In a very recent Emerson poll

out of North Carolina Trump leads Biden 47% to 44%. When you add 3rd party candidates Trump defeats Biden 46% to 37% with 5% support going to Kennedy and 1% going to both West and Stein.....with 11% undecided. In this poll Kennedy appears to hurt Biden more than Trump. In the head to head without 3rd party candidates Biden is within the margin of error. I am not against 3rd party candidates but the reality is that Kennedy in a very close election could do great harm to Biden's chances. My x-wife (we still get along) who is in her 70's and a Democrat but doesn't follow politics closely emailed me a few weeks back and told me that she thought she would probably vote for Kennedy. When I explained to her he was an anti-vaxxer she quickly changed her mind.

[gab13by13]

12. A vote for RFK Jr is a vote for Trump.

[limbicnuminousity]

16. If a demented rapist can run for office

it only seems fair to allow a reality-denying moron an equal opportunity.

-on edit: if the country is so far gone as to elect either we have deeper problems than who runs.

[Silent3]

21. Please define "have no problem"

If that means "I will not try to improperly block access of any legally-qualified from the ballot", sure.

But have no qualms about, or distaste about, or arguments of any sort against? That's a fundamental misunderstanding of "defends and protects democracy".

[The Contrarian]

23. I find efforts to actively block RFK Jr. from access to the ballot distaseful

How can you on the one hand say "we want to protect and defend democracy" while at the same time saying "and by doing that, we're going to take steps to make sure this guy (RFK Jr.) isn't on the ballot". The hypocrisy of those two simultaneous positions is pretty stark.

[Silent3]

25. Where did I say anything about "take steps to make sure this guy (RFK Jr.) isn't on the ballot"?

How does that have anything to do with what I wrote, or even what you wrote in your OP?

Is there some back story here of improper efforts to get RFK Jr. off ballots somewhere that you're incorrectly assuming we're both talking about?

[Cha]

87. We Want to Protect Our Democracy From TSF & Fucking

Rat Fucker 3rd party jr wants to Fuck that up.

Politics isn't Bean Bags. We're Fighting Against All Forces of Evil and RFKjr is on one of the Fronts.

[JohnSJ]

26. Are you kidding me. He isn't running as a Democrat, he is running as a third party candidate

just like Cornell West, and only purpose will be to help trump

[The Contrarian]

42. So then he shouldn't be on the ballot?

People shouldn't have the option to vote for him? We should be protecting democracy by limiting the publics choices?

[JohnSJ]

47. I didn't say that. This is a forum to SUPPORT DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATES.

RFK jr is a jerk, just like Cornell West. They both know that our democracy is at stake, and what THEY ARE DOING is doing the same bullshit that was done in 2016. They are trying to con gullible people that they are viable, which they are NOT.

"we should be protecting democracy"

They sure aren't, just like what happened in 2016, and what that F***ING ASSHOLE NADER "there is no difference between Democrats and republicans" did in 2000.

In every critical swing state in 2016, Hillary received less than 1% of the vote, while Jill Stein receive 1% of the vote. It didn't take much.

So as far as I am concerned, they are not Democrats, so f**k em.

[MorbidButterflyTat]

73. Oh, please

[Cha]

83. RF Kjr is a GD 3rd Party Rat Fucker.. like Jill Stein in 2016

that GOT PUTIN'S PUPPET IN OUR WH.

This 2024 GE is Life Or Death and that Lying fucking Crazy Lying Weasel wants to Fuck it up.

[sop]

28. It's amazing how some folks will still argue "Nader didn't cause Gore to lose Florida, the Supreme Court did!"

Statements like that reveal a complete lack of understanding of how our current two-party system works. Sometimes I think people who make such statements aren't being honest about their true agenda.

[pinkstarburst]

31. Recent polling indicates he is taking more votes from us than the right

We need to be concerned about this. IMHO this is a product of voters not liking that:

1) the two major candidates on the ballot are a repeat from 2020
2) for dems, they had no say in the candidate
3) frustration, protest over the situation in the middle east
4) concern over the age of Trump/Biden

I am very concerned over polling in the swing states. We will have to hope that when we get to November, people smarten up and realize that a vote for Kennedy is throwing your vote away/voting for Trump and that will be infinitely worse than any problems they have with Biden.

[Quakerfriend]

36. FWIW, I know a woman who voted for Trump

and told me in Jan. she would likely vote for Haley.
This week she is considering Kennedy.

She is from Bucks Co., Pa.

Her primary concern seems to be the Covid vaccine. She was 2nd in command at the very highest level of one of the biggest pharmaceutical Co. in the world. And, …………she has never been vaccinated.

[MorbidButterflyTat]

74. How can you tell

from a poll who is taking votes from whom?

[womanofthehills]

82. Because- many polls have Biden vs Trump

And the same polls have a second poll where Kennedy, Stein & West are included. I think he’s taking from Trump too - as there is usually a 2 to 3 point difference when all are polled - and 2 points could be West & Stein.

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/polls/president-general/

[awesomerwb1]

34. Nah, hard pass

Fox news and the right wing have normalized stuff that was considered loony not too long ago.

Right now it's all about beating trump and the radicals. There will not be a democracy left to "defend and protect" if trump wins.

Big picture guys, big picture. (I won't tell you how I feel about Kennedy because it will lead to a ban).

[womanofthehills]

44. Kennedy is all over the internet- on many podcasts

He is doing hour long podcasts so his web presence is greater than Trumps or Biden’s. I think Biden should have done the Super Bowl for the publicity. We hear clips that are a minute to five minutes from Trump & Biden while Kennedy is speaking for hours many days on the net. He’s making the rounds of podcasts & even comedian podcasts. I wish Biden would get some in depth interviews. I would like to see something like an hour conversation & interview with Biden and Rachel Maddow.

This a a whole new ballgame with social media.

After Kennedy came out as against sending weapons to Ukraine he got a lot of anti war followers but then many left him when they realized he was pro Israel. Lately, he is totally avoiding talking about Israel after Crystal Ball of Breaking Points & comedian Dave Smith went after him when he was on their podcasts.

Many podcasts have larger audiences than cable news. The young rarely watch TV. Fox News has what? Like 2 million viewers while Rogan gets close to 40 million. Many independent journalists are now on podcasts - many getting way more views than Fox.

I wish Biden would step up his web presence. Trump is a horrible threat. We can’t blame everything on one person though.

[MorbidButterflyTat]

75. Everyone has a podcast

So Kennedy, Jr. is on Scabby Bannon and Joe Rogan's podcasts all day, saying, what? Anti-vax, anti-democratic, hateful, racist, sexist garbage?

President Biden has a job to do. He doesn't need to waste time on any one of several zillion podcasts, and the Dems' social media presence is darn impressive.

I don't know why any Democrat would bother with the poison spewing from Bannon/Rogan/Kennedy, etc.

"Crystal Ball"?

[Cha]

84. Fuck the GD Puttin Talking Points 3rd Party Asshole, Rat Fucker Kjr.

His own Family is AGIANST him.

[Bmoboy]

38. He will get some black votes

When I did home visits (retired nurse here) I would see pictures of Jesus (sometimes black Jesus), Martin Luther King Jr, and JFK.

RFK Jr is running on nostalgia for a dead uncle and a dead father.

[no_hypocrisy]

39. I threw away my vote in 1980 on a 3rd party

candidate, John Anderson. One less vote for Democrat, Jimmy Carter.

And you know who put Anderson up as a spoiler? ROGER STONE.

[LeftInTX]

94. I knew some people who supported him. Did not know Roger Stone was behind it.

Seriously, the Dems need to put a bunch of independent right wing candidates to funnel votes from Trump. How about Hulk Hogan?

[comradebillyboy]

40. No Labels is having trouble recruiting a candidate, maybe

they should pick RFK Jr.

[JohnSJ]

48. I support DEMOCRATS, not third party spoilers, and why should I fight for them to be on the ballot?

[emulatorloo]

54. Yeah agreed, that's kind of the point of Democratic Underground - to elect Democrats

Should be obvious why we are here, even to ‘contrarians.’

[W_HAMILTON]

49. You have no problem with him breaking election laws to do so?

Defending and protecting democracy also demands that our laws be abided by. Any court challenges to him being on the ballot stem from him skirting election law to get on the ballot. If a court finds that he broke the law to get on the ballot, then he should be disqualified, yes?

But, yeah, umm, welcome to DU or something!

[redqueen]

50. Same thing I thought!

Welcome to DU indeed!

[MineralMan]

51. Isn't That Nice?

Maybe he can get Jill Stein to be his running mate.

[MorbidButterflyTat]

76. But uh oh...

Isn't JFK, Jr. running as VP with the Orange Oozing Sore?

Decisions, decisions...

[emulatorloo]

52. At DU we support Democratic candidates, not Republican-backed Trojan Horses.

It is fine if RFK hr, and Cornell West are running, but DU isn't here to glorify, champion or otherwise promote anti-Democratic candidates who can notwin and whose purpose is to help Republicans win.

[mahina]

60. Do I remember that there are only a few states that split their electoral votes?

We can’t afford to lose even one

[LetMyPeopleVote]

67. Maine and Nebraska are the only states that split electoral votes

[Voltaire2]

62. Sure. Too bad our elections allow plurality winners.

We are stuck with an archaic 18th century system. It’s generally horrible and undemocratic, and ballot access barriers are just one of many problems.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

68. Bannon encouraged RFK Jr. to run so he could be a 'chaos agent' and 'stoke anti-vax sentiment.'

Link to tweet

[Sparkly]

69. Here we go again.

[Scrivener7]

77. .

[mzmolly]

78. Splitting the progressive vote is not defending

democracy. And I don't think anyone with the actual goal of defending democracy would suggest such a thing.

What about Nikki Haley as a third party candidate? You in?

[ornotna]

79. Mission accomplished

That's a no for me.

[Cha]

80. That is So Much Baloney.. RF Kjr is NOT a Democrat.. he's a GD

3rd Paty RF.

Remember jill Fucking Stein's LIES in 2016 in Swing States?!!

She got TSF in our WH.

[brooklynite]

81. Let's be clear; nobody is rigging the ballots to keep him off...

...but neither does he get to skip the filing requirements that every other candidate has to go through.

[Crunchy Frog]

89. One person, one vote, one time. n/t

[TexasBushwhacker]

100. What we need to do is fight for ranked voting nationwide

Obviously, Kennedy isn't going to win enough votes to win in the electoral college. Even in the 2 states that split their ECs, he's unlikely to win a single one. However, third party/independent candidates do have the ability to fuck things up. Remember Ross Perot? If we had ranked voting, a voter could choose their third party candidate on principle, and specify a second choice, which could be the D or the R.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

104. Remember when Kanye West had a FAKE third party in 2020 (run by the GOP) to siphon Black male voters?

Link to tweet

[Oopsie Daisy]

111. I'd rather "demand" the end of the Electoral College. And I'd also *

* demand the end of caucuses and "open-primaries". I'd also like to demand that the USSC be increased to 13 justices. And while I'm at it, I'd like to demand that voting-day be a national holiday, and that every state be required to offer mail-in voting. I want to demand that California's "recall" threshold be raised higher than it's ridiculously low 12%. I also demand that any candidate who cannot win the required number of delegates and who has no path to victory must withdraw and endorse the candidate who does have the primary delegate wins. I demand that for every two "self serve" checkouts at the grocery store, there should be at least one live cashier. I demand that loud MUZAK in public places be banned. Furthermore, I demand that loud mufflers and speeders on my street have their vehicles confiscated and licenses revoked. I demand the same punishment for people who unlawfully use handicapped parking spots. I demand the end of scannable "e-coupons" in the grocery store that only work if someone has the store's app on their smartphone and that it's properly associated with their shopper card. I demand the end of "shrinkflation" tactics. I demand no more robocalls. I demand the end of slow-service in drive-thru lanes. I demand that all cigarettes and tobacco products be banned.

[Baltimike]

116. NOPE. A vote not for Biden is a vote for Trump. RFK Jr is helping Trump. nt

Last edited Mon Mar 4, 2024, 02:00 PM - Edit history (1)

[angrychair]

118. I'm confused

This question is mute. After Super Tuesday this week it's pretty much over. Kennedy had the ability, like anyone else, to get himself on the ballot in any state he wanted. That he isn't is his fault, not anyone else.

[LetMyPeopleVote]

123. This makes me smile

[Kingofalldems]

128. Did you notice the support he got in the thread?

[John Shaft]

136. Oh so very "edgy!"

Contrarian? How precious.