I'm watching the vote in Michigan and watched protests at lunch. I can't decide if I'm angry or simply worried.

[TomSlick]

I understand the "uncommitted" movement is a protest vote but it is counterproductive. The "uncommitted" push is patently anti-Democratic and anti-Biden.

I heard a woman saying on MSNBC earlier that she regretted voting for Biden against Trump because Biden hadn't done something about Israel's actions in Gaza. The protester I saw at noon with a sign that read "Genocide Joe Must Go" sent me over the edge.

Politics is a zero-sum game. Anything that weakens Biden strengthens Trump, even if it only means that Democratic voters stay home. If the protesters are unhappy with Biden, do they think things would be better under Trump?

[Irish_Dem]

1. I wonder who is funding this well planned and organized protest?

Who benefits.

Yes it is pro Trump and anti Democratic.

[TomSlick]

2. I don't doubt these people are sincere. They are just misguided.

A vote for "uncommitted" is a vote for Trump. It's really that simple.

[Irish_Dem]

3. Yes that is why I question the sincerity or motives.

It is simple and clear. They are working for Trump.

[ITAL]

8. They're sincere

I have talked to several and they're absolutely committed. Arguing with them is like bashing your head into a wall.

[lees1975]

34. They are mostly people who have very little understanding of how Democracy works.

They're not all that familiar with it and it doesn't really fit well with their culture, or their religion. So they think that if they have a single issue, they can demand that it go their way and if it doesn't, then they don't participate.

I get it. But do they get that what will happen, if they sabotage the re-election of the President, things will get much worse for the people of Gaza, and I mean much worse. Do they not understand that they lose their own political voice if the orange headed buffoon wins the election? He will not only make sure Gaza is destroyed, but he will come after them. Representative Tlaib will be among the very first victims of his vengeance.

How can they be told that?

[TomSlick]

12. Single issue voters are their own kind of dangerous.

For them, nothing - NOTHING - is more important than their issue. They are perfectly content to burn down the house to advance their grievance.

They have a point, Bibi's actions in Gaza are reprehensible. However, no US President is going to cut off all aid to Israel. The protesters are unwilling to let Biden to work out of sight to actually accomplish something. They want dramatic action NOW. If they don't get what they demand now, they are prepared to see Trump elected just to show their resolve.

[Irish_Dem]

18. It is folly.

Foolish and short sided.

They have fallen for the PutinGOP propaganda hook, line and sinker.

Biden has a line to walk and things take time.

[dalton99a]

20. Their movement is a virulent hate campaign against Joe Biden

[Irish_Dem]

24. That is why I keep asking who is funding them.

And who is organizing and working with them?

This all happened way too fast to be just organic grass roots.

[dalton99a]

30. Hamas, using the Russian social-media playbook

[Irish_Dem]

33. Has Putin's fingerprints on it.

Hamas is getting a lot of help.

Putin wants Biden distracted by a war in the Middle East.
Causes Biden to lose votes.
And dilutes Ukrainian funding.

No wonder Putin has been so emboldened and happy lately.

[dalton99a]

41. Yep.

[Think. Again.]

9. Please keep in mind that the 'uncommitted' vote is...

...so far just for the primary, in which Biden has a very strong lead. These voters are, so far, uncommitted to any of the Democratic candidate nominee. The fact that they are voting at all in the primary shows some level of interest in voting.

We are not yet facing whether these voters will choose to not vote, or to vote for a republican candidate.

[TomSlick]

15. The "Genocide Joe Must Go" protestor would suggest the contrary.

Such nutcases aside, it is a short step from voting for "uncommitted" in February to being uncommitted in November.

[TheKentuckian]

35. It shows an interest in punching holes in the only lifeboat.

[Cha]

14. Sincere in getting TSF back in the WH?

Link to tweet

[dalton99a]

17. +1. The Genocide Joe propaganda started right after the Oct 7 massacre

[TomSlick]

4. The "Listen to Michigan" spokesperson just said on MSNBC

that if Trump wins in November, it will be Biden's fault for not doing what the pro-Palestinian protesters demand and somehow force a permanent ceasefire.

[Cha]

16. Yeah.. So Neener Neener Neener to OUR DEMOCRACY.

Fuck their Anti-Democracy Propaganda.

[msongs]

5. the protestors could go to gaza and join hamas if they are so concerned nt

[MOMFUDSKI]

6. I want one host/hostess on my TV machine

to remind these uncommitted voters that they will be the first tossed out of the country or put in a camp when TSF wins. I am not holding my breath. Nuts

[JI7]

7. It is not just a protest vote

many were already not going to support Biden becsuse of lgbt issues.

They will not vote Biden in November either.

[Think. Again.]

13. Wow... that's almost absurd...

...first of all, I haven't heard of ANYone choosing not to vote for Biden against trump over any LGBT 'issues'.

[Mosby]

53. Muslim Americans are encountering LGBT+ issues in new spaces

And for some it's a bridge too far.

In heavily Democratic Dearborn, Mich., protests last year over LGBTQ+-themed books nearly shut down school board meetings. More recently, Muslim activists have tried unsuccessfully to get the Pride flag banned from city property.

Pride is not a religion, it is not something everyone has to celebrate or respect,” said Hassan Aoun, a Muslim Uber driver in Dearborn. “I respect people who are gay. They can do what they want. It’s a free country. ... But that doesn’t mean we have to put up a flag or shove it down people’s throats. It is clearly against Islam and we make up a lot of this community.”

Aoun, 42, said he usually voted for Democrats until gradually switching sides over the last decade over LGBTQ+ issues.

This summer was the first that, for weeks on end, our Friday khutbah [sermon] was focused on LGBTQ+ questions,” said Chouhoud. “I have never seen that before.”

That was in part spurred by an open letter that hundreds of American imams signed, titled “Navigating Differences,” a rare coming together of the biggest names in American Islam in an attempt to course-correct followers.

“We refuse the false choice between succumbing to social pressures to adopt views contrary to our beliefs or facing unfounded charges of bigotry,” the 1,289-word essay said.

Yasir Qadhi, a widely followed Islamic scholar who serves at the East Plano Islamic Center in Texas, was a lead writer of the notice.

“We have as Muslims been relatively quiet on LGBTQ topics because we thought there were bigger fish to fry, so to speak,” said Qadhi. “But then the issue was coming directly to our communities and involving schools and children.”

https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2023-09-25/lgbtq-muslims-evangelical-republican-christians

[Think. Again.]

58. Anti-LGBT people are not exactly our base.

[TomSlick]

22. That's inane.

It's a binary choice. Do they really think Trump will be better on LGBT issues?

This may be a Darwinian election. Protest voters may be the death of the republic.

[JI7]

25. You misunderstand. They are against lgbt rights

They are protesting against schools teaching anything about the issues.

It's not just right wing white christians protesting drag queens.

[TomSlick]

26. Yes, I misunderstood.

[blm]

10. Trump sides with Netanyahu

against the Palestinians and against Jewish progressives seeking peace.

Netanyahu wants Trump back.

[dalton99a]

11. The Genocide Joe smear is having an effect beyond the Palestinian community

Exhibit A:

Aaron Bushnell, 25, died in the hospital after setting himself on fire outside the Israeli Embassy in Washington, D.C., on Sunday in what he said on social media was an act of protest against Israel's war in Gaza.

Bushnell was an active duty member of the U.S. Air Force and based in San Antonio, Texas, the D.C. Metropolitan Police Department said. He was pronounced dead at 8:06 p.m. ET Sunday.

[JI7]

28. Yup , the guy had no problem joining the US armed forces

after what we have done. Especially with Iraq which we started.

But is angry over Israel going after those that attacked them and are still holding their people hostage.

[betsuni]

55. +1

[GuppyGal]

19. Fuck these bullshit 'one issue' voters. nt

[elleng]

21. The 'uncommitted' group is intended to protest against Netanyahu's current Gaza stance which,

at the moment/so far, appears to be/has been followed by President Biden, NOTHING MORE. STOP the killing.

[TomSlick]

23. To protest Netanyahu, they effectively vote for Trump, Netanyahu's biggest supporter.

[elleng]

27. They are NOT voting for tmp, this is the DEMOCRATIC PRIMARY.

[JI7]

29. They aren't voting Biden in November either

[elleng]

31. Wanna bet?

[JI7]

36. yes

[All Mixed Up]

49. Some will vote Biden. Some won't.

We don't have a breakdown of the 15% or so uncommitted but based on comments online and through the media (which I guess is hard to take at face value), there are a decent amount of people who won't vote for him. Will it be enough to cost him Michigan? Who knows?

[DemocraticPatriot]

37. Some of them will, some of them won't

but I think women voting for their reproductive freedom in this state,
will make up the difference and THEN some....

I sympathize for what is happening in Gaza,
but what is happening in our OWN country is more important

[TomSlick]

39. Again, politics is a zero-sum game.

Weakening Biden now strengthens Trump in November. Wittingly or unwittingly, they are voting for Trump.

[lees1975]

43. What would you expect the President to do that he isn't already doing?

There was October 7th, which he cannot ignore, but which the Michigan uncommitted voters seem to ignore.

He cannot unilaterally change American foreign policy. He's pushing, as hard as possible, for a cease fire, for getting hostages out, and for stopping the war. What most of them are asking is unrealistic and politically impossible. Joe Biden is not responsible for what's going on in Gaza, but his remaining in office is the best hope the Palestinians have for a workable resolution to a problem no one who is alive now had anything to do with.

[DemocraticPatriot]

32. In another week or two, no one will remember this.

And Trump will say something about his mother having given birth to the entire human race,
because he was sent here by God as a replacement for Jesus--

(or his people will say that)

[TheKentuckian]

38. Pepperidge Farms will remember

I won't forget for a good while.

[DemocraticPatriot]

42. Who ?

[Lemonwurst]

44. Family Guy reference...

A very funny and unexpected cutaway - as many of them are!

[DemocraticPatriot]

45. My best friend would probably have known that....

unfortunately, he died a few years ago. I miss him much.....

he was a big fan of that show

[Silent Type]

40. The protest vote gave us trump in 2016.

[DemocraticPatriot]

46. The general election protest vote, you mean....

[Silent Type]

48. Yes. Thanks for clarification.

[Wounded Bear]

47. Not angry, not worried...

Uncommitted is currently running at about 15% with Biden at around 80%. I'll take it.

trump is at 65% of his party, that sucks. Much worse.

If it ends up like this, I'm good. It's a primary, not the general.

[TomSlick]

50. People voting against Biden in a Democratic primary is worrying and angering.

If I hadn't seen the "Dump Genocide Joe" protester, I might have been ok. Whether or not it is their intent, these "uncommitted voters" are providing aid and comfort to Trump and the MAGAts.

[Wounded Bear]

52. I don't buy that uncommitted is a vote against Pres Biden...

If they were truly against, they would vote Phillips or repub. They had those choices and didn't.

Most of them will come home in November, when things like women's healthcare are on the ballot.

You do you, I'm not gonna sweat this.

[TomSlick]

59. I hope you are correct.

The people I saw interviewed who said they would never vote for Biden were outliers - right?

[Wounded Bear]

60. I guess it depends on how many voters define "outliers" for you...

We won Michingan 2020 with soft support from these groups, and I think we can win again. trump is losing 20-30% of his support in every primary so far. Their schism is far deeper than ours. Biden is pulling 80-90% of the base, trump is running 60-70%. Hard to win elections when your base is that soft. Women's issues alone should get us a majority of the undecideds, even more among women.

I'm not advocating complacency in any way here. We still have much work to do this summer to GOTV among an electorate with trump fatigue. Part of that is not allowing us to get discouraged by minor "setbacks" over reported by the press.

[TomSlick]

61. Not discouraged but I have decided that I am angry at these short sighted people.

I don't know what to do about my anger. The people is Gaza are not responsible. Netanyahu is not responsible for the protest vote, although he is certainly happy that Trump may benefit.

President Biden will continue to work quietly do so something about Netanyahu's genocide in Gaza. However, Netanyahu will continue to resist so that he can continue in his genocide. The best hope lies with the people of Israel to move to salvage what is left of Israel's international standing.

Relying on the victims of a criminal attack to show restraint is not a strong position. Fortunately, President Biden is smarter and more experienced than I.

[Cha]

56. They're Idiots for that Sign. Yeah, "Dump genocide

Joe" For Genocide Dictator Putin Puppet TSF.

Link to tweet

And, we know this is Not Exaggeration.

[All Mixed Up]

51. If it ends like this, you're right...

But Wayne County has barely reported and the results that have been reported show uncommitted at 24%, so, ten-points or so more than the overall state totals. That could inch it above 20% statewide once Wayne starts to report (assuming it remains at 24% there).

[DBoon]

54. I'm think it is Germany 1932 and the Communist Party is attacking the Social Democrats as "Social Fascists"

Soon leaders of both the Communists and the Social Democrats will both be sent to concentration camps.