Hamas uses civilians as human shields, Gazan journalist states

[Beastly Boy]

Gaza-based journalist Jehad Saftawi said on Tuesday that the Hamas terrorist organization indeed uses civilians as human shields in the war against Israel.

"Hamas terrorists used my family and hundreds of our neighbors as human shields. Hamas continues to hold the people of Gaza captive," Saftawi posted on X. "There should be no reconstruction of my family's home while a stockpile of weapons lies underneath.

"Goals rather than causes are what is behind Hamas's masterminds' wars. The case for removing Hamas is not to fuel escalation but to prevent it, which is why they should never be allowed to retake control of Gaza," he continued to say. Saftawi then admitted that it was the first time in more than 10 years that he's "been able to speak about this publicly," stating that it's "a cry for realignment for our Palestinian society as well as an appeal to the international community."

--snip--

Saftawi added that Gaza has been "dominated by terrorist chaos" since Hamas's takeover of the Strip, stating that the terrorist organization "has continued to normalize violence and militarization in every aspect of public and private life in Gaza."

https://www.jpost.com/israel-hamas-war/article-787028

[marble falls]

1. And IDF uses civilians as human targets. A curse on both their leaders' houses.

[madaboutharry]

2. That is a blood libel.

[marble falls]

3. Believing over 20,000 dead Gazans are Hamas is shear stupidity. Accusing me of blood libel is libel.

[Mosby]

7. You engaged in a false equivalence.

And in the process demonized Israelis and the IDF.

Do better.

[marble falls]

10. You think 20,000 plus dead civilians isn't enough? What's the equivelency of the deaths in October and the deaths ...

... that are increasing by the hundreds right now in Gaza?

[Beastly Boy]

20. There are at lest two false equivalencies in your post.

One, Israel doesn't TARGET civilians.

Two, Hamas is responsible for both starting this conflict and deliberately and by choice placing their military assets, which IDF legitimately targets, among civilians.

The third is just a false premise, not that it matters much but it is still on you. You are using Hamas numbers, and Hamas doesn't say how many dead are civilians and how many are militants. Their numbers have not been independently verified either.

[EX500rider]

23. What was enough for Pearl Harbor? The attack killed 2,403 U.S. personnel, including 68 civilians.

Just one bombing raid on one night:

On the night of 9–10 March 1945, 334 B-29s took off to raid with 279 of them dropping 1,665 tons of bombs on Tokyo.
Approximately 15.8 square miles (4,090 ha) of the city were destroyed and some 100,000 people are estimated to have died.

[The Magistrate]

31. Sometimes I Despair, Sir

War is not some sporting event, where dead people are points, and at some juncture 'enough' have been accumulated so the war ends. But that does seem to be how many guide their understanding of it.

War is the attempt of one party to a dispute to impose by violence what it cannot secure by purchase or reason. It ends when the party first resorting to violence secures its object against the violent objection of the other, or acknowledges its violence has failed to do so, and ceases to fight.

In war one does not so much strive to kill people in order to end their lives, as one kills people to convince other people they'll be next if they don't give up, or flee, or at the very least keep their heads down a while.

It is true that if one party to a war fields a soldiery who actively courts death, killing a good deal more is required than in the average run: such soldieries are not common to history.

It is also obvious that such a death-desiring soldiery, establishing itself in facilities and fighting positions beside, under, or over the dwellings of non-combatants, is going get a great many persons killed in course of war against them, who will suffer for no better reason than that they were in the way of people fighting the men here to fight till they died.

I suppose you might say that is worth it, if you favor the resolution of the dispute they are contending for, certainly no one opposed to it would agree.

If people do take up for a side which fields soldiery of this sort, and disposes them in that manner, they ought at least to be clear about what the goal actually sought by that side is.

That's something a good many people aren't at all clear on....

[TheKentuckian]

34. Enough is only defined by the goal.

If it took zero to incapacitate Hamas then that would be enough but that isn't so.

Instead they hide behind their women and children and willfully raise the death toll on their own people they supposedly are fighting for that they starve, steal from, and abuse in the process.

You know this. It isn't even debatable.

If you have a magic wand then waive it and speak the incantation that settles tens of thousands of operatives.

[Kid Charlemagne]

17. It's been 20,000 for like two months

Is that just the magic number we're going to be using forever or is it going to change?

[AZSkiffyGeek]

26. To be fair...

It was 28K this morning. Or was it 30K last week? Maybe 26K?
I know I saw one poster citing 67 and over 100 for the same incident, in the same thread.
Maybe if enough different numbers are thrown out, they'll get to the truth eventually...

[TheKentuckian]

35. The rate of casualties has slackened considerably

That seems to have no impact on the screeching.

[obamanut2012]

11. How is that a blood libel? That is not what blood libel means

[madaboutharry]

13. The meaning has evolved since the Middle Ages.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

15. To include all Israelis? Huh.

[The Magistrate]

16. I Expect The Connecting Thread Is the Accusation Jews Kill Goyims' Children For Sport

As opposed to just for making Passover matzohs.

If people are going to bang on pretending the chief object of Israeli military operations is to kill children and other innocents, it's a reasonable usage to my eye.

[Igel]

19. No, it's not quite.

It's still near the line that says, "Israeli Zionists just like targeting and killing innocent civilian non-Jews, esp. Muslim Arabs, for hate and jollies."

While it may be near the line, it's still on the wrong side of it--on the same side that blood libel resides (albeit farther from the line).

[GuppyGal]

4. Nice to equate Hamas with Israel

[marble falls]

6. I'm compareing the hatred and the murder from the leaders from both sides. Niether Israelis nor Gazans ...

... are being well served by their leadership.

[GuppyGal]

8. Sorry but you're comparing apples to oranges nt

[marble falls]

9. And you're minimizing the true depth of this bloodbath by comparing humans to fruit.

[GuppyGal]

12. I don't need any lectures about produce from anyone who says 20K dead is 'genocide' you have a great day !! nt

[yardwork]

24. Yes, but that's not what you said.

[The Magistrate]

14. But Of Course You Do Know What You Defend Here

You defend fighting men taking cover behind women and children, and would grant them immunity from any harm when they do.


"Now that is cool. A highwayman puts a pistol to my head and says 'Hand over your purse, or I shall have to shoot you, and then you will be a murderer.'"

[Cha]

32. No they don't... Your Whataboutism isn't Working.

[GuppyGal]

5. I hope to hear much much more of this and less about martyrs. nt

[The Magistrate]

18. It's One Of Those Odd Stitches Pressing Propaganda Lines Can Catch One In, Ma'am

People maintaining that Hamas does not represent the people of Gaza (who therefore should come to no harm when Hamas is assailed) ought to welcome such reports as confirming this view, that Hamas rules by fear and forces cooperation in its efforts, rendering all others innocent of its actions.

But this makes hash of the claim Hamas embodies Palestine's resistance to Israel, an endeavor the people of Gaza support unreservedly, and that we on the left here in the West ought to support just as staunchly.

It takes some mental agility to believe both, and few making the attempt here have what's necessary for doing so seamlessly.

[sarisataka]

21. There are two reasons this cannot be believed

1- it wasn't said by Hamas, therefore is not credible without verification
2- only Hamas can verify it is true, but we can't believe terrorists so the verification would not be credible.

[Fozzledick]

22. Nice to see some truth coming out of Gaza for a change.

But of course it's only become possible because Hamas has been so severely disrupted, otherwise he would still be in fear for his life.

[yardwork]

25. It seems that might be true.

He's calling for a Palestinian realignment, because the Hamas approach is clearly not working. At least, it's not working to the benefit of Palestinians.

[Voltaire2]

27. If a bank robber takes a hostage as a human shield

is it ok to shoot the hostage in order to kill the robber?

[Beastly Boy]

28. If a robber takes 240 hostages, the answer is yes.

And you full well know the reason. To save 239 hostages.

[NickB79]

29. Clearly you let the robber walk away unharmed, weapon in hand, towards that elementary school down the street

As he's screaming "I'll kill them all the moment I get chance!" And then when he shoots a bunch of children and takes another hostage, you let him walk away again towards that retirement home full of elderly people, and so on and so forth.

[The Magistrate]

30. Usual Application Of the Law, Sir, Is The Robber Draws A Murder Charge

If a death occurs in the course of your commission of a felony, you are responsible, and charged accordingly.

Doesn't matter how it happened. One cop shoots another in the affray, the robber is charged with murder. Somebody steps into the bank, sees what's going, turns to run, trips, cracks their skull on the steps, the robber is charged with murder. An officer shooting at the robber, who hits the hostage, that's something pretty straightforward: the hostage taker committed murder. The officer may well have violated department policy to shoot in the situation, he committed no crime: The murderer is the man with an arm around someone's neck holding them between him and police bullets.

[Cha]

33. What the hell does that have to do with the Fucking Butchers of HAMAS?

[keithbvadu2]

36. Certainly not the children of Hamas elite.

Hamas leader and family escape through their tunnels.

[mcar]

37. Kick!