General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsI am perplexed, troubled, and yet unsurprised by all the vitriol being directed at Garland and Hur
over the Biden investigation report. Here we have a record of a thorough and exhaustive investigation examining serious allegations against a POTUS, leaving no stone unturned, no facts varnished, no details overlooked, no room for for doubt and completely exonerating POTUS of all the unfounded charges.
Isn't this the definition of "no one is above the law" and "justice being served"? Isn't this the reason why an AG is strictly bound by the laws that define the grounds for appointing a special counsel and an SC is strictly bound by the scope of the responsibilities he receives from an AG?
If Garland were to appoint, say, Hillary as SC and she were to come up with an identical report, she would no doubt be praised to high heaven for it, and so would Garland for choosing her.
Instead, every Garland basher across the political spectrum, each pushing their peculiar talking points that often conflict with each other, is lamenting Garland (more so than Hur, BTW) as an existential threat to democracy. And the grievances that are presented to justify the branding of Garland as a threat to democracy are often, upon closer examination, trivial, partisan, tendentious and antithetical to democratic principles themselves.
... What is going on here???
I see neither the purpose nor the pleasure in portraying Garland as a comic strip villain. Doing so undermines the authority of the Office of the US Attorney General and, perhaps ironically, is contrary to the fundamentals of democratic principles of our government.
Scrivener7
(51,022 posts)LeftInTX
(25,567 posts)All of the commentary was not part of his job.
I fault Garland for poor judgement. (I have never gone after Garland before. He seems to be doing a good job to me. There is more to the job than going after Trump and Biden etc) However, he may not have known how bad Hur would be.
Hur's report was totally in bad taste.
I'm mad.
You usually don't see me mad on DU
Ferrets are Cool
(21,110 posts)gab13by13
(21,412 posts)you have got to be kidding? Andrew Weissmann called it shameful and a violation of DOJ protocol.
Look what the hell happened because of the Comey report. Thank goodness Hur didn't wait any longer to issue this report, it was due out last year.
What the fuck Hur should have done was state that he thoroughly investigated President Biden and decided there was not sufficient evidence to bring a conviction against President Biden.
Where was the special counsel to investigate Mike Pence?
LeftInTX
(25,567 posts)This was such a shock to me that I couldn't sleep all night.
I agree, Hur should have just done this:
gab13by13
(21,412 posts)redqueen
(115,103 posts)I don't know why OP is trying to whitewash it
Demsrule86
(68,696 posts)Beastly Boy
(9,461 posts)Demsrule86
(68,696 posts)attack an innocent person. You are wrong...both of these guys must go and should never be supported by Democrats again.
I couldn't agree with you more.
Beastly Boy
(9,461 posts)And the SC is expected to write a book that fully accounts for his investigation This was never considered an attack on an innocent person before, and I am wondering what changed and when.
Bibbers
(5 posts)Did you read the language in Hur's report? It doesn't strike you as a really below-the-belt kick to accuse Biden of not being able to remember the year his son died? I mean, that's so nasty it takes my breath away.
soldierant
(6,934 posts)Her lengthy response (which has been posted here)included the pot that anyone who has experienced such a loss knows that from thet moment time is not measured in years, but in grief.
And yes, I'm angry too. But I really don't know what should have been done, only that if there is anything which should have been done, it wasn't, and the reality is what we need to deal with. I need all my energy for hat, so I'm trying to save it.
Beastly Boy
(9,461 posts)"What the fuck Hur should have done was state that he thoroughly investigated President Biden and decided there was not sufficient evidence to bring a conviction against President Biden."
Isn't this what Hur did? No?
And he was required to write a book that thoroughly accounted for his investigation. that was his job.
Doc Sportello
(7,531 posts)As if the perjorative and, as pointed out by numerous legal scholars and DOJ veterans, unprofessional remarks about Biden's age and memory aren't relevant. Well, we'll find out in the next few months how relevant they are to Biden's re-election as the repubs ramp up their ageist and unfair attacks on Biden. But maybe you are one of those who thinks Comey was "just doing his job" tanking Clinton a few weeks before the 2016 election.
Beastly Boy
(9,461 posts)there is no way Republicans can ramp up their ageist and otherwise unfair attacks on Biden. There is no "up" left in their ramping. Their outrage is so worn out, it is no longer making the news cycle. You have to look elsewhere for reasons why this issue is staying in the news.
Doc Sportello
(7,531 posts)But yes there are ways. The outrage isn't even the point, to anyone but a few who think it is. It's about playing to voters' psyches. This issue will be one they hit over and over, and it might work in part thanks to Hur's words and the same human failing that has led other fascists to power. Ignoring or minimizing may make you feel better but it is foolish to do so.
ShazzieB
(16,541 posts)Yes, Hur did "state that he thoroughly investigated President Biden and decided there was not sufficient evidence to bring a conviction against President Biden." That part was fine. The problem is that he didn't stop there. He threw in a bunch of extraneous comments about Biden's age and memory that were insulting, inappropriate, and unnecessary.
Personally, I am sick and tired of the Garland hate that has been exploding all over DU since the report was released, but I completely understand why people are angry at Hur.
I hope this helps clarify what people are upset about.
brush
(53,896 posts)Come on, you still don't get that?
Arthur_Frain
(1,862 posts)For all the kerfuffle, thats my pushback to anyone who brings this up. As usual, its nothing more than projection on the part of the rethugs, an opportunity to distract from their frenzied, ham handed efforts to do it first, and do it harder. This is proof that they do exactly what they accuse us of.
Republicans twist everything and their version of the golden rule is do unto others before they do unto you.
BlueKota
(1,796 posts)is using that report in a request to Garland to invoke the 25th ammendment against President Biden. So why shouldn't we be mad about the unprofessional bastard Hur? I have heard no former prosecutors defending what he did.
He knew he had no evidence of criminal conduct by President Biden, but he had to go down on his knees to please his orange lord and master Dick head Donny somehow.
I am not saying Garland will grant Tenney's request, but Hur gave her the ammunition to even attempt it. F him.
Demsrule86
(68,696 posts)defended him against complaints from fellow DU'ers. Well they were right and I was wrong. Garland is a disaster and has appointed Trumpers for some reason known only to him. I am livid about this report.
Beastly Boy
(9,461 posts)to exonerate Biden.
How much more powerful of a message this is coming from a Trumpster?
Demsrule86
(68,696 posts)understand how you miss that. This Trumper attacked Biden and Garland did nothing. This guy should never have been appointed. He attempted to 'Comey' Biden. He can't indict him so he attacks him. I absolutely disagree with this thread and honestly think it should be deleted. There were better choices than this guy. I suppose some will say Garland couldn't interfere with the report being released or the Trumper would have leaked it. No doubt that is true. But he never should have been hired. Garland needs to go ASAP. I can't see him going before the second term-day one.
Hur did damage which was his intention. I hope to fuck this doesn't cost us the election. I leave you with a NBC report that shows what we are up against.
'WASHINGTON President Joe Biden sidestepped any criminal charges as the investigation into his handling of classified documents concluded, but the political blowback from the special counsels report Thursday could prove even more devastating, reinforcing impressions that he is too old and impaired to hold the highest office.
'Special counsel Robert Hurs portrait of a man who couldnt remember when he served as Barack Obamas vice president, or the year when his beloved son Beau died, dealt a blow to Bidens argument that he is still sharp and fit enough to serve another four-year term.'
Merrick Garland's desire to be perceived as 'fair' hurt us. I hope it didn't cost us the election.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=edit&forum=1002&thread=18666348&pid=18666583
Beastly Boy
(9,461 posts)Or is there a nebulous void between one and the other that I can't find in any legal manuals?
tavernier
(12,407 posts)It was a not so sly hit job to try to convince people that he is not suitable for the presidency. Its one thing to use cutesy little suggestions to make people think that he is decrepit and addled. But to blatantly lie about his words and actions is a criminal act. Hurs job was to find the truth; not to devise his own version of the facts. He couldnt make up crap about the investigation itself, so he had to make up crap about the man himself.
Beastly Boy
(9,461 posts)I think people are buying it. But apparently, not unanimously.
JustAnotherGen
(31,911 posts)He exonerated him - but then couched it in ageism and despicable accusations about his ability to lead due to his age.
I'm not seeing much difference between Hur and Comey today.
Beastly Boy
(9,461 posts)It is up to Garland to determine whether any DOJ etical standards were violated and to what extent, but so far I see no evidence that such violations took place.
As far as his prosecutorial skills, I don't see anything I could fault him with.
Notwithstanding the inexplicably popular sentiment, the sky is not falling.
MorbidButterflyTat
(1,855 posts)I don't think Garland's been a total washout but what the ever loving fuck with this bullshit report?? Has anyone come out to rightfully lambaste Hur? Prez Biden should not have to be the only one calling out this crap and cheap shots against him.
I won't hold my breath waiting for the suck up media to do its job. Hunter Biden's genitals on the House floor not bad enough? These fuckers are goddamn ghouls!
Beastly Boy
(9,461 posts)Bad taste is not identical with bad judgement, and is a ridiculous reason to claim a threat to democracy threat to democracy.
gab13by13
(21,412 posts)I listen to his opinions.
vanlassie
(5,691 posts)Out of context. Are you serious? Painful to whom? Gratuitous and slanderous. Malicious.
yardwork
(61,712 posts)Polybius
(15,497 posts)What if it was true? Should it have been redacted, or should we have been told like we were?
dalton99a
(81,599 posts)hatrack
(59,593 posts).
dalton99a
(81,599 posts)limbicnuminousity
(1,405 posts)yardwork
(61,712 posts)Last edited Fri Feb 9, 2024, 01:22 PM - Edit history (1)
I was up in the middle of the night about this and that hadn't happened since the orange shit gibbon last befouled the White House.
edit: spelling. Damn autocorrect.
NewHendoLib
(60,022 posts)Just another example on why this place seems pretty foreign to me lately and I spend far less time here.
gab13by13
(21,412 posts)DU is my #1 go to source, many people disagree with my opinions, disagree with me personally, but calling DU foreign is foreign to me.
I got my news from Nicolle Wallace, now I click on msnbc and see who the guests are, if I like the guests I will watch for their opinions not for the cable news anchor's opinion. I watch Stephanie Miller and Thom Hartmann and a few other social media sites.
Where do you go?
NewHendoLib
(60,022 posts)I don't watch any TV news. I get Sunday NYT.
wryter2000
(46,082 posts)I find Stephanie Miller quite reliable in covering news. And the humor keeps me sane.
hlthe2b
(102,382 posts)commentary (with clear political aims) included as the very FOCUS of an official legal report whose findings GRUDGINGLY must admit to a lack of evidence against Biden? Your post does not make it clear one way or another.
I could not agree more with Andrew Weissman:
Link to tweet
Link to tweet
NewHendoLib
(60,022 posts)I've been here 20 years and haven't changed from my Dem/strong liberal standing
but the infighting here, and odd reads on things - I feel like lots of DU has moved away from where my politics reside.
hlthe2b
(102,383 posts)The IP infighting undoubtedly drove off a lot of posters regardless of sides/positions--very ugly time here. Was it more than that?
NewHendoLib
(60,022 posts)At this point in my life, I spend much much more time in my family/dogs/cats/hobbies/arts bubble.
hlthe2b
(102,383 posts)Most days the most inciteful conversations I have in this time of turmoil--come from those with my beloved dog.
NewHendoLib
(60,022 posts)I am working on book 3 (will be self published) and have 25 speaking garden events, a second garden to help tend...hiking - kayaking - as the years pass by, one can only be pulled in so many directions!
Cha
(297,733 posts)brooklynite
(94,748 posts)Are you sure of that?
hlthe2b
(102,383 posts)too? )
obamanut2012
(26,142 posts)Doc Sportello
(7,531 posts)brooklynite
(94,748 posts)Im traveling and havent read the report. I just dont like baseless we all agree hyperbole.
Not clear what any of this has to do with Al Franken.
BootinUp
(47,197 posts)at the underground.
SocialDemocrat61
(640 posts)I thought it was about bragging about being a big shot, smarter than everyone here and defending rich white guys & media corporations. 😉
yardwork
(61,712 posts)BootinUp
(47,197 posts)Silliness. Call it stress reliever.
yardwork
(61,712 posts)I thought your comment was right on.
Demsrule86
(68,696 posts)Demsrule86
(68,696 posts)And I like you and enjoy your posts. Heart to you!!!
Demsrule86
(68,696 posts)Beastly Boy
(9,461 posts)yardwork
(61,712 posts)I see one or two people defending Garland and Hur and a strong majority of DUers expressing outrage about this report.
DU seems like a comfortable cozy place to me, right now.
Skittles
(153,202 posts)yup
BootinUp
(47,197 posts)Beastly Boy
(9,461 posts)Despite his presumed collection of axes to grind, he found no legal fault in Biden's retention of classified documents.
How consequential is that? Or are his axes take precedent over his decision?
BootinUp
(47,197 posts)of power to conduct official business of the government, who don't want to follow the fucking rules of their job. Either they have been influenced by propaganda and think they must break the rules to save something, wrongly, or they are fishing for billionaire gifts.
Beastly Boy
(9,461 posts)BootinUp
(47,197 posts)I am saying that is a requirement of the job.
Followup , is whether you think he was following that requirement or not.
As far as Garland is concerned, I find him to be a political dunce, who should have known better but take no other issue with him.
Beastly Boy
(9,461 posts)Yes, Hur was supposed to make an effort to be politically neutral, and yes he did just that.
I would argue that ageism, while not exactly commendable, is very much politically neutral. You are welcome to disagree.
sprinkleeninow
(20,267 posts)were in the realm of 'not politically neutral'.
His bogus personal character assessments of our President weren't professional, was out of order and now all the cable news, etc. are yapping about this presently plus being consumed by it.
DUgosh
(3,058 posts)Were to give red states the justification to leave Joe off the ballot. However the SC will rule against removing candidates and they never saw that coming.
gab13by13
(21,412 posts)the narrative that I see the MSM pushing is that Congressional Magats are calling for invoking the 25th Amendment on Presideent Biden.
Didn't Hur's boss even read the despicable report before it was released?
Andrew Weissmann stated that he worked in the justice department for 20 years and wrote numerous reports and what he saw from the Hur report not only violated DOJ protocol and policy, but it was misleading and shameful.
Not my words, words from someone who most likely wrote hundreds of reports.
I do not understand for the life of me why you are praising such a misleading report. Weissmann said it was just like the Comey report.
Beastly Boy
(9,461 posts)And it appears the right wing narrative you are reporting on hasn't changed one bit since the report came out.
Good to know.
LexVegas
(6,103 posts)The Magistrate
(95,255 posts)She would not inject editorial commentary which will feature in attack ads during the campaign.
Hur's political bias was clear from his resume.
Selecting him was a mistake at best.
They are made, you know. Even by High Poo-Bahs in Democratic administrations.
Beastly Boy
(9,461 posts)other than leave a bad taste in one's mouth. Hardly a threat to democracy.
The Magistrate
(95,255 posts)It's a common enough ploy:
But it's not just the candidate saying this, let's look at this hard-hitting spot....The words will be flashed over whatever image is displayed, in quotes, with attribution to 'special counsel's report' in nice clear letters the while.
Marketing works; repetition lodges things in people's minds.
Arazi
(6,829 posts)It solidified in many minds that all the rumors about her scamming taxpayers was true
It certainly tipped the scales and resulted in a massive threat to our democracy.
The senility/dementia claims against Biden act in the same way, especially codified into an official DOJ report. The impact cant be understated
Beastly Boy
(9,461 posts)There were passing mentions of observations in the course of the investigation of Biden's forgetfulness, which are presented as evidence of absence of intent to commit a criminal offense. Intent is a pivotal element in any investigation
Autumn
(45,120 posts)most disgraceful thing I have ever seen.
Demsrule86
(68,696 posts)I gave Garland the benefit of the doubt and I shouldn't have done so. Hearts for you!!!
Autumn
(45,120 posts)Beastly Boy
(9,461 posts)That didn't happen, did it?
Justice was done, perhaps not in the way you would have preferred. Is this so disgraceful?
Demsrule86
(68,696 posts)no snark in no time with no snark. It is not an either-or. And yes, this is disgraceful. A person who faces no charges should not be slandered. First of all, it is against policy. And secondly, it screams partisan bullshit.
Beastly Boy
(9,461 posts)Tell me what specific comments Hur made that amount to slander.
Please quote him, if you are familiar with what he actually said. And if you are not aware of any statements Hur made, by all means, feel free to claim entitlement to your opinions.
Autumn
(45,120 posts)Disgraceful lies and innuendos all approved by Garland. Yeah he had a lot of information, in his personal papers. That happens when you move out of the White House or VP residence in just a few hours and someone does all the packing for you.
I will send a nice campaign donation to the first Democrat who calls for Garlands resignation.
Beastly Boy
(9,461 posts)so I can understand better how in hell it relates to your understanding of justice, and I just might be able to contrast one with the other for you.
Autumn
(45,120 posts)either.
Beastly Boy
(9,461 posts)I am pretty sure Biden is personally offended by Hur's remarks. I as hell would be too, and I would react in a very similar manner.
A personal offense, however, does not amount to a political hack job.
Autumn
(45,120 posts)I commented on one aspect of your post. If you want a definition of what I said a couple of posts ago try Google.
Reply to Beastly Boy (Reply #172)
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 08:01 PM
Try selling that justice BS to Harris and Biden. Pretty sure with their statements they don't see it as justice
either.
As you can see my comment was on "justice" and what the President and the VP think of the doj's findings.
vanlassie
(5,691 posts)such as this- It could have been worse? False and misleading, insulting and demeaning unprofessional comments?
As far as I am aware, this guy Hur IS NOT A MEDICAL OR MENTAL HEALTH EVALUATOR. Correct me if Im wrong.
Beastly Boy
(9,461 posts)And Hur was not evaluating any medical conditions. He was evaluating absence of intent in Biden's actions. Very much a legal concept, which he is fully qualified to comment on.
vanlassie
(5,691 posts)of the report in which Hur indulged in a personal judgement of the painfullness of Bidens responses? As if he had any right to judge inconsequential demeanor? I could just as well say Bidens answers were painfully slow because he was playing 3-D chess in his mind regarding what to do about Hamas, Bibi and documents left in his garage a few years ago. And, in what world is it noteworthy that ANY detail of a beloved sons tragic death was forgotten?
hlthe2b
(102,383 posts)reporting on it and then come here to defend it--and that includes Hur and Garland. Clearly, 99% of DU feels quite differently than you. Maybe there is an answer to your question examining the reasons for THAT? Perhaps you've forgotten the context of Comey. I would suggest you think about the grotesque similarities in what happened then and yesterday.
Beastly Boy
(9,461 posts)The report is consequentioal, and the commentaries on its trivial details are not.
I don't see how anyone can think of a report, from a Republican SC no less, that fully exonerates Biden of any wrongdoing, as anything other than good news.
This kind of not seeing the forest from the trees is what perplexes me the most.
Demsrule86
(68,696 posts)is not damaging? Well, I have worked elections my entire life and I am telling you that is not true. Pence was exonerated in no time with no special prosecutor appointed. Biden got 'Hillary via Comey' treatment.
Beastly Boy
(9,461 posts)What Hur actually reported is this:
under the paragraph stating "there are other innocent explanations for the documents that we cannot refute."
A side note blown out of all proportions by the spinmeisters.
GuppyGal
(1,748 posts)Beastly Boy
(9,461 posts)Blues Heron
(5,944 posts)sop
(10,267 posts)He should be congratulated for not wanting to give the impression he's acting as Biden's "personal lawyer," like Barr and Trump. And I guess Garland's just doing his job by selecting a special prosecutor, a guy appointed by Trump in 2018, to produce a report that reads like it was written by a social worker in a nursing home.
Demsrule86
(68,696 posts)Trump, surely there were better choices...how about a fair person? And then Garland didn't even supervise him...all that needed to be said was no charges would be filed. Fuck both of them. President Biden dump Garland on day one of your second term.
Beastly Boy
(9,461 posts)Or do you think exonerating Biden is not fair?
Demsrule86
(68,696 posts)superfluous bullshit...about memory ETC. But the thing that really stands out is the comment about Beau Biden...how dare he? This was not an exoneration...that would have been simply 'no criminal charge ' This report was a hit job and damaging. Defend it if you choose. I will not.
Beastly Boy
(9,461 posts)is an unfair decision?
Happy Hoosier
(7,397 posts)Determiningf that charges should not be leveled is where it should have ended. His political attack on Biden has no place in the report. At all.
MustLoveBeagles
(11,636 posts)agingdem
(7,861 posts)something that has been done decades past prior to Trump, appear unbiased and appoint a special counsel of opposite party...Garland is not Bill Barr (put in office to cover Trump's stinking ass)...Garland is the people's lawyer...and no he does not have control over what goes into the report and he shouldn't...Biden asked the report be presented in it's entirely with no redactions...Biden and his team knew what was coming and prepared for it..that's why the swift pushback..the onus is on Robert Hur, revealing himself to be not a lawyer of integrity but another Trump ass-kissing hack...
.
LuckyCharms
(17,460 posts)Investigative reports should contain just the facts, not conjecture.
That's why people, including myself, are pissed.
But you know that.
Beastly Boy
(9,461 posts)Are they pissed at the report or the attitude of the SC expressed in the report?
What is consequential and what is not in their choice of the target being pissed at?
When there is a will, there is no report ever made that one cannot find something to be pissed at.
LuckyCharms
(17,460 posts)I have no fucking idea what you just typed.
Again, I am pissed at the conjecture related to president Biden's memory.
Capiche?
MorbidButterflyTat
(1,855 posts)These fuckers are damn ghouls.
Lunabell
(6,112 posts)Some people just double down when contradicted. Even with facts.
Demsrule86
(68,696 posts)He was appointed by Trump and the thing I find unforgivable is the remarks he made about Biden's not remembering the day his son died. How dare he. He was appointed by Trump in his administration and should never have been selected by Garland. At the very least, Garland should have read the report. Mike Pence got a no-charge period with no added garbage analysis.
This guy wrote a book in this report about Biden's memory and the rest of crap he added to the report. He asked questions about 40-year-old shit...doing a favor for his former boss I suppose. The only thing that was needed was 'no charges filed'. The rest is yet again the 'comeying' of yet another Democrat. I hold Garland responsible for hiring this guy and I assume not reading his report. If he read it and allowed it to go out...that's even worse.
I believe the he only reason we got charges filed against Trump is the work done in the House and Jack Smith's efforts. Garland surely did little in two years. The only good thing he did was to hire Jack Smith as special counsel. Garland even allowed the FBI to miss two locked rooms because of lack of supervision. He knew the FBI didn't want to do it and and had to be ordered to search Trump's shitty house. I have supported Garland until now. Even though his so called 'bipartisan concerns' delayed bringing Trump to justice. I was always troubled about Garland's inaction on this matter. but gave him the benefit of the doubt. No more, Biden should fire Garland on day 1 of his second term.
Response to Beastly Boy (Original post)
redqueen This message was self-deleted by its author.
gab13by13
(21,412 posts)in private of course, about how his report violated DOJ norms and protocol.
That would assume though, that garland never read the report before it was issued.
Demsrule86
(68,696 posts)though his inaction and actions troubled me. But no more. He needs to go on day one of Biden's second term.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,378 posts)Hur was nominated by Donald Trump to be the US Attorney for the District of Maryland. US Attorney positions are extremely important POLITICAL appointments. Its routine for all or nearly all the USAs appointed by one presidential administration to resign their offices within a few weeks after a new administration comes into office, assuming of course that the new administration represents the other major party. Thats because it doesnt make any more sense for a Republican USA to keep his job under a Democratic president than for a Republican head of an administrative agency to keep his job when a Democrat takes office.
Again, these are POLITICAL positions, that involve making POLITICALLY charged judgments, because as various observers have noted in recent centuries, theres a close relationship between law and politics at all but the most routine levels of legal decision making.
...
Merrick Garland should be fired immediately. He has one of the most important jobs in the United States, and hes absolutely terrible at it, which is a bad combination, especially when theres a little light sedition in the air. Yes I get it that Biden would take a big political hit in the short term for doing this absolutely warranted a thousand times over thing, but first, the public has the attention span of a fruit fly, and second, riddle me this:
https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2024/02/elite-lawyer-brain-is-killing-us
gab13by13
(21,412 posts)Garland also appointed special counsel Weiss who is also a Trump nominee.
Beastly Boy
(9,461 posts)With the nearly certain likelyhood of the report finding no fault in Biden's conduct, it made good sense to appoint a Republican to issue the report. As we can see, Garland's gambit paid off big time. A Republican exonerated Biden.
This alone is going to shut a good portion of Biden detractors up.
ms liberty
(8,601 posts)The language in the report was biased. There are far less salacious and derogatory ways to have said the exact same thing, but he didn't take them. That's not just my opinion as some rando on the internet, it's the opinion of Andrew Weissman and others who actually do know what they're talking about.
The fact that Hur exonerated Biden is buried by the smear he perpetrated in his deliberately demeaning choice of words. He knew how it would land, and if Merrick Garland didn't, then he's far stupider than I ever would have believed - or too naive for DC.
Beastly Boy
(9,461 posts)Nobody is paying attention to Hur exonerating Biden. And I keep asking why. That's the big news, and it is being disregarded in favor of the more salacious over the top accusations that keep Hur and Garland in the news.
WTF?
GreenWave
(6,766 posts)After that, go home. But he could not shut his mouth and went off on Biden with his amateurish assessment of Biden's mental abilities.
Beastly Boy
(9,461 posts)As he made his decision, he made an inappropriate comment, a comment that didn't affect his decision one it.
So let's ignore the consequences of his decision in favor of making objections to things of no consequence.
GreenWave
(6,766 posts)The RW media and pseudo central had a field day yesterday focusing on the negatives., as they ignored the finding.
Beastly Boy
(9,461 posts)It is the decidedly non-right wingers having a field day focusing on the negatives and ignoring the findings that disturbs me.
hlthe2b
(102,383 posts)I'd think you'd want to counter our collective "confusion," "errors," or 'failure to understand the issues' per your POV?
Beastly Boy
(9,461 posts)Then, you may edit your post as you find appropriate.
hlthe2b
(102,383 posts)So, perhaps pay attention to your OWN thread. You won't change minds with this rudeness.
Beastly Boy
(9,461 posts)I am payinf attention. Are you?
hlthe2b
(102,383 posts)Reply to gab13by13 (Original post)
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 09:07 AM
(I do not believe for one minute they are unaware of this direct line of attack on Biden and his purported memory problems-- nor the intentional disregard that the five-hour interview occurred IMMEDIATELY after the October 7 Hamas attack on Israel. This was as savage a misdirected political attack delivered under the guise of "investigation" as you could get. And for some to defend this--well, I fear for our collective future if that is what we are all to become.
in response to:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100218666842
Robert Hur wrote in his report that President Biden couldn't even remember when his son died.
What a horrible, despicable thing to say. Everyfuckingbody should be condemning Hur for putting that lie in his report.
If Merrick Garland read that line in Hur's report and allowed it to be made public, then Garland is complicit.
No President Biden can't fire Garland, it is way too late, besides, I'm not sure that incompetence is legal grounds for firing someone.
I'm going grocery shopping, maybe I will buy a chunk of big fat bologna.
hlthe2b
(102,383 posts)and fully defend.
GOP lawmaker calls on Cabinet to explore removing Biden under 25th Amendment
https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/4457661-gop-lawmaker-calls-cabinet-explore-removing-biden-25th-amendment/
In a letter obtained by The Hill, Tenney wrote to Attorney General Merrick Garland on Thursday night to share her grave concerns.
After concluding that President Biden knowingly and willfully removed, mishandled, and disclosed classified documents repeatedly over a period of decades, Mr. Hur nevertheless recommended that charges not be brought against him, her letter said. Special Counsels reasoning was alarming.
How damned predictable (at least for those of us paying attention)
Beastly Boy
(9,461 posts)hlthe2b
(102,383 posts)entire media story days before the '16 election. Same BS tactic.
Beastly Boy
(9,461 posts)Dated two and a half years before the Hur report was ever conceived:
https://news.yahoo.com/republicans-calling-bidens-removal-amid-185900530.html?fr=yhssrp_catchall
They don't need the fucking ammo.
hlthe2b
(102,383 posts)NO WHERE EVER did I or anyone else on DU ever say the RW had not been attacking Biden on his age prior. So, too have some of our own (Dems) with poorly-concealed ageist bigotry masked as "concern." So, perhaps that is why some are not bothered by this report and the fact it has damaged Biden in a way that could be disastrous to us all.
Rather than defend him, though some feel the need to defend the highly partisan SC and the media whose focus has been solely on the ageist memory issues--including the accusation that Biden couldn't even remember the DEATH OF HIS OWN SON. How damned inhumane! Do YOU DEFEND THAT TOO?
Beastly Boy
(9,461 posts)say that the report gave them the opportunity to attack Biden. So what changed because of this report?
hlthe2b
(102,383 posts)and the key word is "feigned." YOU KNOW BETTER. And I am done with the act.
Beastly Boy
(9,461 posts)They are self-evident.
And the tempest in the teacup being stirred over a nothingburger of a passing observation is on the agenda-driven interpreters of the report, not the prosecutors that generated it. And I have yet to hear the outrage over the relentless spin that followed.
hlthe2b
(102,383 posts)you, but now, having gone after the same feigned clueless talking points for hours, I can only conclude you are trying to bait some into being less civil.
You be you, but for me, I will simply IGNORE your further nonsense. I support President Biden. That you seemingly don't--to the point where you offer nothing but defense for the political attacks against him-- has been made unbelievably clear to me.
Beastly Boy
(9,461 posts)That is far more civil than the judgemental responses I received, yours included.
hlthe2b
(102,383 posts)Why waste your time here? You clearly have nothing but disdain for your fellow DUers, nor our President.
Think. Again.
(8,443 posts)I do not believe that subjective personal opinion on non-criminal topics is appropriate in a criminal investigative report.
Evidence of criminality is what should be included, nothing more.
Beastly Boy
(9,461 posts)edhopper
(33,627 posts)that is what the GOP is doing. And Garland has not pushed back.
You fail to see the damage this unprofessional report is doing.
Think. Again.
(8,443 posts)...being overlooked acroos the board due to the unprofessional and personally cruel content that should never have been in the report in the first place, and that's why it should not be there.
It is appropriate for the public to call out misdeeds of the special counsel.
Beastly Boy
(9,461 posts)And not a good one. A more damning comment about personal choices than it is of Hur's report.
Think. Again.
(8,443 posts)...is not anything new to the people here.
Biden did not commit any crimes with his documents, duh. That doesn't deserve any special attention. Not committing crimes is expected.
However, the import of the report is that a Special Counsel wrongly abused his position for partisan gain. That does deserve attention.
Beastly Boy
(9,461 posts)in conducting an investigation. Evidence of the same is.
Of course examination of evidence deserves special attention. This is the whole purpose of conducting an investigation, isn't it? And I don't see how the content of the report hints at anything resembling abuse of power on Hur's part. Granted, I didn't read it in its entirety, but perhaps you can quote the passage(s) that make you suspect abuse of power for partisan gain.
Think. Again.
(8,443 posts)doc03
(35,382 posts)defenders. He sat on the Jan 6 for two years before appointing Jack Smith. He assigns a SC
to Hunter Biden after he was cleared of gun charges. Now he makes an ad for the Trump campaign. The guy goes so far right to not appear political he just as well be Bill Barr.
Beastly Boy
(9,461 posts)And that was the point in the OP.
maxrandb
(15,360 posts)Every...EVERY Special Counsel that has been appointed in the last 50+ years has been a Retrumplican.
If they are appointed to investigate a Retrumplican, the Special Counsel is a "lifelong" Retrumplican.
If they are appointed to investigate a Democrat, the Special Counsel is a "lifelong" Retrumplican.
If they are appointed to investigate an Independent, the Special Counsel is a "lifelong" Retrumplican.
If you pulled names out of a hat you couldn't get the same appointment record, unless every name in the hat was a lifelong Retrumplican.
I guess it would be fine if both sides were truly honest brokers, but the Retrumplican Party hasn't believed in the rule of law for at least 50-60 years.
So, instead of getting a "just the facts ma'am" report, you get political hatchet jobs like this, and the reports on both Clintons.
My Gawd Man! The Retrumplican Party views and uses law and justice as nothing but a political weapon.
The better question would be to ask why "you" aren't fucking pissed off about it?
Beastly Boy
(9,461 posts)I am not fucking pissed at the report because it found no reason to go after Biden. Good reason to not be pissed, no?
And I am pissed about side issues being blown out of proportions because, well, they are side issues blown out of proportion that do not address the essence of the report.
maxrandb
(15,360 posts)He is described as unaffiliated, but it's pretty apparent that he is NOT a Democrat.
A better analogy for you to site would be to simply look at the appointment of Hur in comparison.
Hur was appointed to this DOJ job by Donnie Dipshit. Hur is a lifelong Retrumplican and a member of the Reich-Wing Federalist Society. Hur chose to clerk and work for folks to the EXTREME right of the political spectrum. What you can find of Hur's political positions show him to be full-on MAGAt.
So, while Jack Smith appears to be apolitical, if Garland appointed such a hugely partisan person as Hur to investigate President Biden, why not Eric Holder to investigate Donnie Dipshit.?
Could you imagine the howling if that has happened?
But, Democrats are supposed to just suck-it-up when clear partisans are appointed to investigate them and produce clear political hatchet-job reports against them.
It's the 50 year double-standard that is infuriating.
samsingh
(17,601 posts)nothing garland has done has held him to account. In fact, the special council investigating trump is stuck with a judge who is pro-trump like she's worshiping a dictator.
Beastly Boy
(9,461 posts)are now Garland's fault too.
And he has control over it... how?
lees1975
(3,880 posts)But it's ok to be unhappy with the manner in which he has handled the job as Attorney General. With the evidence laid out, a special counsel in place a year prior to when it actually happened, Trump would be irrelevant and behind bars by now.
Let him finish out his term. But don't get testy when people criticize his mistakes.
Beastly Boy
(9,461 posts)It is the usual "sky is falling" attitude embedded in this criticism.
Garland an agent of destruction of America's democracy?
Frankly, he gets too much credit from his detractors.
Jarqui
(10,130 posts)Garland picked him and allowed the report to go out, so he wears a hunk of the blame. Period.
Bring up the most horrific loss: the death of his son, which Joe obviously took vary, very hard & it still wounds him - never heals, and expect him to function normally immediately after? And then tarnish him for it in a report. How much lower can somebody go?
Something stinks big time here.
It is very much like the Comey hit job
Beastly Boy
(9,461 posts)No comment.
Jarqui
(10,130 posts)More or less (paraphrased) "he's too elderly and fucked up mentally to charge"
That is a hell of a thing to say months before an election.
where did he get his medical degree?
Beastly Boy
(9,461 posts)What Hur actually reported is this:
under the paragraph stating "there are other innocent explanations for the documents that we cannot refute."
A side note blown out of all proportions by the spinmeisters.
Jarqui
(10,130 posts)More quotes from the report:
"Mr. Biden's memory was significantly limited, both during his recorded interviews with the ghostwriter in 2017, and in his interview with our office in 2023."
"Mr. Biden's memory also appeared to have significant limitations-both at the
time he spoke to Zwonitzer in 2017, as evidenced by their recorded conversations, and
today, as evidenced by his recorded interview with our office. Mr. Biden's recorded
conversations with Zwonitzer from 2017 are often painfully slow, with Mr. Biden
struggling to remember events and straining at times to read and relay his own
notebook entries."
"In his interview with our office, Mr. Biden's memory was worse. He did not
remember when he was vice president, forgetting on the first day of the interview
when his term ended ("if it was 2013 - when did I stop being Vice President?" ) , and
forgetting on the second day of the interview when his term began ("in 2009, am I
still Vice President?" ) . He did not remember, even within several years, when his
son Beau died. And his memory appeared hazy when describing the Afghanistan
debate that was once so important to him. Among other things, he mistakenly said
he "had a real difference" of opinion with General Karl Eikenberry, when, in fact,
Eikenberry was an ally whom Mr. Biden cited approvingly in his Thanksgiving memo
to President Obama."
"Mr. Biden's apparent lapses and failures in February and April 2017 will likely appear consistent with the diminished faculties and faulty memory he showed in Zwonitzer's interview recordings and in our interview of him. "
"A former executive assistant to Mr. Biden confirmed that at times Mr. Biden
committed talking points to memory by writing them down, sometimes multiple
times."
This is over the top.
There is no crime unless the DoJ could prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Biden knowingly took these documents.
awesomerwb1
(4,268 posts)Selective quotes, this is a joke right?
Jarqui
(10,130 posts)I grabbed the memory ones.
I'm sure there are more.
Demsrule86
(68,696 posts)Defend this biased shitty report if you want. I won't. I clearly see that is was a partisan hit job.
Beastly Boy
(9,461 posts)More to the point, Hillary's exoneration came after the elections were over, and played no role in the bipartisan Hillary bashing that was going on prior to that.
hlthe2b
(102,383 posts)had no impact? REALLY?
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/comey-announced-reopening-clinton-email-probe-days-election/story?id=54470601
The guy knew exactly what he was doing, White House spokesperson Sarah Sanders told ABC News Chief Anchor George Stephanopoulos on This Week on Sunday. He thought that Hillary Clinton would win, and he thought that this would give him some cover. He made these decisions based on the political landscape and not the facts of the case, White House spokesperson Sarah Sanders told ABC News Chief Anchor George Stephanopoulos on This Week on Sunday.
Sanders was responding to a video excerpt from Comey's exclusive interview with Stephanopoulos that will air tonight at 10 p.m. ET.
In the excerpt aired on "This Week," Stephanopoulos asks Comey whether his choice to reveal that he was reopening the investigation into Clintons emails days before the election may have been influenced by his belief that Clinton would become president.
Comey, then the FBI director, sent a letter to Congress announcing the reopening of the email probe on Oct. 28, 2016, 11 days before the Nov. 8 election.
Celerity
(43,550 posts)I remained neutral on Garland for a very long time, but on balance, I am sad to say I now find him to be likely the worst of Biden's cabinet choices, with most of the others having been splendid ones.
His hiring of Trumper Hur was a dire mistake, for but one example.
kelly1mm
(4,735 posts)classified materials,
Does that sound like an exoneration to you?
Beastly Boy
(9,461 posts)Hope you find this more agreeable
kelly1mm
(4,735 posts)for not bringing the charges was the difficulty a potential jury would have of convicting (in Hur's view) 'a well intentioned elderly man with memory issues'.
Basically the SC did not bring or recommend criminal charges which is good for sure. But they seem to have taken every opportunity to malign President Biden in so doing.
UTUSN
(70,744 posts)TwilightZone
(25,485 posts)We're focusing on exactly what they would want us to focus on - the pointless, personal, gratuitous nonsense that was added. We should be focusing on the big picture, but that's really not how we operate.
That being said, these things are not mutually exclusive. It's possible to both focus on the end result of the report - no charges and little evidence of anything - while still objecting to the seemingly political injection of irrelevant information into the report.
Ocelot II
(115,869 posts)furthering the narrative that he's too old and infirm. That, of course, is what everyone is pouncing on, when the facts that should be shouted to the rooftops is that he did nothing that warrants prosecution. My own opinion, for what it's worth, is to stop carrying on about the report except to point out that Biden - unlike Trump - has been exonerated for his handling of documents, and that retaining them was inadvertent and not deliberate. No search warrants or months of negotiations were needed to get the documents back. Biden didn't try to conceal them or claim he was entitled to keep them. Was Hur a holdover Trump loyalist who couldn't find a crime so he decided on an insult instead? Maybe, but so what? The important thing - the only important thing - is that the report found no crime. Period. The end. And bashing Garland certainly serves no purpose. All of this is a small tempest in a much larger teapot with much more serious tempests going on; Biden will continue to show the world that he's not senile and the report will be forgotten. But the more we jaw and whine about it, the longer that will take.
Beastly Boy
(9,461 posts)Under the paragraph that states "there are other innocent explanations for the documents that we cannot refute."
A single paragraph that changes not a single conclusion in the report. Blown out of all proportion to the essence of the report by the bipartisan chorus of Garland detractors.
Ocelot II
(115,869 posts)maybe that's what would stick.
gab13by13
(21,412 posts)Why was Pence treated differently?
hlthe2b
(102,383 posts)https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/4457661-gop-lawmaker-calls-cabinet-explore-removing-biden-25th-amendment/
In a letter obtained by The Hill, Tenney wrote to Attorney General Merrick Garland on Thursday night to share her grave concerns.
After concluding that President Biden knowingly and willfully removed, mishandled, and disclosed classified documents repeatedly over a period of decades, Mr. Hur nevertheless recommended that charges not be brought against him, her letter said. Special Counsels reasoning was alarming.
The headline of every newspaper front page I've seen today reflects the "memory" meme--not one focused on the report's findings that failed to support charging Biden.
Ocelot II
(115,869 posts)which very well may have been deliberate and intended to harm Biden's credibility, since they couldn't find any evidence of a criminal act. But the House GOP tries to weaponize everything, and if it wasn't that it would be something else. What I'm saying is that all that shit needs to be ignored and keep pointing out that the report exonerated Biden. As Biden continues to do his job competently and disproves the claim by his actions - and as all the Trump trials and the mind-boggling incompetence of the House GOP keep grabbing the news - it will blow over. Obviously the 25th Amendment bullshit won't go anywhere; it's just more political theater like the fake impeachments.
sinkingfeeling
(51,474 posts)"And, as for "any extraneous commentary, they don't know what they're talking about. It has no place in this report."
"The bottom line is the matter is now closed, and we can continue what I've always focused on, my job of being President of the United States of America."
...as for calls to remove Garland, or discipline Hur, or do something to change the report... all of that is up to the person the report was directed at, and the president isn't running around with his hair on fire like some folks supposedly defending him with all sorts of nonsense this morning.
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100218666724
Beastly Boy
(9,461 posts)I can see this essentially inconsequential dead horse of an issue beaten to a pulp for months on end. We've been through this before.
Demsrule86
(68,696 posts)Garland made a huge mistake appointing MAGA Republicans. I suppose he expected fairness but that was never going to happen.
wryter2000
(46,082 posts)I'm not. They're richly deserved. He has neither the expertise nor any valid reason to discuss Biden's age as it relates to his memory. There wasn't any reason to mention Trump's case in this report, either.
Vinca
(50,311 posts)charges and give his neurological assessment of Biden's acuity or lack thereof. It was reminiscent of James Comey and we know what that led to.
republianmushroom
(13,704 posts)republianmushroom
(13,704 posts)oldmanlynn
(111 posts)Go on an add the special counsels opinion on why charges would not be accepted as because Biden is to old and cant remember
This is a republican talking point.
Many people say they cant recall when asked things that happened years ago.
Attorneys will typically tell their clients to say you dont recall.
Beastly Boy
(9,461 posts)It is of utmost importance to a prosecutor to anticipate every possibility, including the hypothetical jury's reaction to the hypothetical defendant's demeanor.
And just a reminder: this was the least among the far more serious considerations that prompted Hur not to press charges.
Happy Hoosier
(7,397 posts)It was his mandate to determine if Biden or his aides are likely to have committed a crime and if so, if the evidence supports a prosecution. THAT'S IT!
Hur's amateur medical diagnosis is FAR from his mandate. It's constitutes an attack on Biden that is entirely based on opinion, and can be asserted without any evidence whatsoever.
Not only am I not interested in his opinion of Biden, given his political inclination, but it ss grossly inappropriate to express those opinions when he is in no way an expert on the subject at hand. It was meant as a political swipe at Biden, and garland tolerated it. He shouldn;t have. He should have noted that it is not Hur's place to express such opinions. His only job was dtermine if a crime was likely committed and if so, if the evidence would support a probable convinction.
Hur knew that at the least the answer to second part was a resounding NO, but he didn't like that answer, so he decided to inflict what political damage he could.
Understand now!?
Beastly Boy
(9,461 posts)I doubt it.
Happy Hoosier
(7,397 posts)"In addition. Mr. Biden's memory was significantly limited, both during his recorded interviews with the ghostwriter in 2017, and in his interview with our office in 2023. memory was significantly limited, both during his recorded interviews with the ghostwriter in 2017, and in his interview with our office in 2023. And his cooperation with our investigation, including by reporting to the government that the Afghanistan documents were in his Delaware garage, will likely convince some jurors that he made an innocent mistake, rather than acting willfully-that is, with intent to break the law-as the statute requires." p.9
The use of "memory was signficantly limited" is a deliberate and condescending use of words.... not too unlike you wrong assumptions about my position.
"We have also considered that, at trial, Mr. Biden would likely present himself to a jury, as he did during our interview of him, as a sympathetic, well-meaning, elderly man with a poor memory. Based would likely present himself to a jury, as he did during our interview of him, as a sympathetic, well-meaning, elderly man with a poor memory. Based on our direct interactions with and observations of him, he is someone for whom many jurors will want to identify reasonable doubt." p. 10
Again "elderly man with poor memeory" is condescending. Biden could easily argue that he was simply unaware that the documents were there, not that he is an "elderly man with poor memeory"
"In his interview with our office, Mr. Biden's memory was worse. He did not remember when he was vice president, forgetting on the first day of the interview when his term ended ("if it was 2013 - when did I stop being Vice President?" , memory was worse. He did not remember when he was vice president, forgetting on the first day of the interview when his term ended ("if it was 2013 - when did I stop being Vice President?" , and forgetting on the second day of the interview when his term began ("in 2009, am I still Vice President?" .839 He did not remember, even within several years, when his son Beau died.81rn And his memory appeared hazy when describing the Afghanistan debate that was once so important to him. Among other things, he mistakenly said he "had a real difference" of opinion with General Karl Eikenberry, when, in fact, Eikenberry was an ally whom Mr. Eiden cited approvingly in his Thanksgiving memo to President Obama."
Uh huh. So there ya go.
Unless, of course, you want to argue that Biden really does have a problem?
Beastly Boy
(9,461 posts)It is a prosecutor's job to asses the accuracy of the testimony under consideration of a decision to press charges or not.
Probably distasteful (at least I think so) but arguably necessary to form an accurate assessment.
BTW, what were Hur's other, far more significant considerations in not pressing charges? There are over 300 pages in his report. Surely there is more to it than the three short paragraphs you cited.
senseandsensibility
(17,146 posts)Most people on this board disagree, but you gave your reasons and I read them carefully. I disagree that if Hillary was the SC and wrote the exact same report it would be positively received. That's naive. The corporate media loves to attack Biden and Clinton and would at the least present it as a Dem catfight. You are very protective of Garland and I don't think I've ever written a negative word about him. He was beyond reproach in how he handled this. For most of us, that act is getting old though. Follow the law? Sure. But this bending over backwards to appear fair in every way possible to appease a party that literally wants to end our democracy is not the way to handle an authoritarian movement. Allowing the double standard that requires only our morals to be exemplary is dangerous. So add me to the others who disagree with your post.
Beastly Boy
(9,461 posts)the thoroughness of the investigation and the detailed analysis of evidence leading to the identical conclusion would hardly differ.
niyad
(113,587 posts)people are expressing over hur's hatefilled, nasty, completely unprofessional, completely republican, hatchet job on President Biden, and your defense of him. Could you please point me to any other special report written in such a manner?
MorbidButterflyTat
(1,855 posts)Beastly Boy
(9,461 posts)These were not mere accounts of personal observations related to the investigation, they were, in their entirety, documents insulting, if not undermining the rule of law itself.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,378 posts)The weight of argument in this thread has finally got you to change your conclusion?
Beastly Boy
(9,461 posts)I am pointing to reports that resemble the description of "hatefilled, nasty, completely unprofessional, completely republican, hatchet job" far more closely than Hur's report ever will.
It is the weight of the interpretation you favor that creates the false perception of me changing my conclusion, a conclusion which is only being reinforced by the futility of the challenge I responded to.
muriel_volestrangler
(101,378 posts)You were asked to point to a special report written in the manner of Hur's. You suggested Barr's spin.
Beastly Boy
(9,461 posts)Sorry to disappoint, but I am not playing your games.
Enjoy the monologue to follow.
KYBlue
(26 posts)The special counsel's report sounded like it could have been written by someone from Fox News or Breitbart. It was a political hit piece against Biden and was released a year after it was supposed to be released, and was released during an election year to specifically help Trump and get him elected.
I think they should have stopped using special counsels, after what happened with Bill Clinton with Ken Starr, and Hillary who had multiple special counsels trying to ruin her good name, and ultimately helped Trump win the presidency
Beastly Boy
(9,461 posts)JustAnotherGen
(31,911 posts)I do not want that evil woman anywhere near the White House. She's playing a good game of Pretend I didn't Kiss Trump's Ass to be the Ambassador. What you permit you promote.
She permitted Trump - she promoted him. . . she's just as rotten as him.
Beastly Boy
(9,461 posts)There is the report, and then there is spin, and the two are worlds apart. I pay attention to the report, not the spin.
ProfessorGAC
(65,213 posts)Comes off as sanctimonious pearl-clutching.
JustAnotherGen
(31,911 posts)I would accept.
VP Harris, herself a fierce former prosecutor has spoken:
Speaking at a community violence prevention program at the Eisenhower Executive Office Building, Harris condemned Special Counsel Robert Hurs claim that Biden's memory is poor. As a former prosecutor herself, Harris said, the special counsel should have had more integrity.
The way that the presidents demeanor in that report was characterized could not be more wrong on the facts and clearly politically motivated, Harris said in response to a question at the end of her remarks. And so I will say that when it comes to the role and responsibility of a prosecutor in a situation like that, we should expect that there would be a higher level of integrity than what we saw.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/gratuitous-harris-slams-hur-report-defends-biden/ar-BB1i3arc
I trust his former opponent's judgment. As well - I'm old enough to remember certain segments of America disqualifying her because of the excellence she showed in her Prosecutor Role.
Beastly Boy
(9,461 posts)However, lack of tact and professional decorum doesn't amount to professional malpractice, which is how many responses in this thread characterize Hur's (and for some reason Garland's) handling of the investigation.
dpibel
(2,854 posts)That's what Harris said.
If you think that's the same as "lack of tact and professional decorum," well, that makes me think that this is not a serious discussion you're carrying on.
But congrats on the big thread!
XRubicon
(2,212 posts)Beastly Boy
(9,461 posts)In the mean time, any comments that do not involve advice on what I should do about myself?
XRubicon
(2,212 posts)There seems to be a pattern.
Beastly Boy
(9,461 posts)I am not as easily swayed by popular sentiment as you think I should be. Sorry to disappoint.
Beastly Boy
(9,461 posts)Happy to oblige!
XRubicon
(2,212 posts)I am a huge Beastie Boys fan.
TheKentuckian
(25,029 posts)be responsible is a hit job.
The commentary is out of scope and provided to damage Biden.
Beastly Boy
(9,461 posts)How it became the exclusive measure of judging Hur's (and, inexplicably, Garland's) competence, is way beyond me.
Sympthsical
(9,121 posts)And Hur would have been fully aware that the lede would be buried under it. He used loaded language that was impossible to ignore. There is no universe operating under gravitational laws where the media don't pick that up and put it on the front page the next day.
I'm probably one of the more sedate DUers and tend to operate under the axiom, "Never apply to malice that which can be explained by incompetence." And if cable news is at an 11, I take that as holy dictum that I should be reacting at about a 3.
I've read the report. This isn't incompetence. This was willful. There is no way Hur did not know precisely how this would land.
Now, look, do you have a point that we're a largely reactive media culture where everything on tv is the WORST THING EVER until next week when we'll have forgotten about it because another WORST THING EVER has come along? Sure, absolutely. People need to shut cable news off for ten seconds. It's making this country worse. It's an incubation chamber for mania.
But this was pretty damn bad. I have no charitable explanation for both Hur's report and Garland's allowance of that language. President Biden's mental acuity is a very sore and vulnerable political spot - it's one of the Republicans' main lines of attack against him. And Hur delivered a haymaker straight at it.
Special counsels should at least pretend to aspire to be neutral. And most of the report was fine . . . right up until that point where it nakedly wasn't.
Gore1FL
(21,152 posts)I don't feel out-of-place joining them in their assessments.
Joinfortmill
(14,468 posts)many times, but this report is, at best, tinged by politics. I think Mr. Garland made an error when he appointed this particular prosecutor. I don't know how he addresses this or even if he can.
But. Kamala addressed it and she rocked. We are lucky to have both Joe and Kamala. VOTE.
Conjuay
(1,409 posts)If it was a Democrat saying Trump had the mental capacity of a dishrag, (which is actually TRUE, BTW) He would be doxxed, swatted, and all the rest of that bullshit - and not have a moments peace all the rest of his life.
Bob Hur should be out on his ass, or in the very least, facing some sort of Disciplinary Action.
Murky Garland should be out selling pencils in the street- preferably too close to the traffic. But because of some actual cases pending, we will have to put up with him in the interim.
H2O Man
(73,623 posts)I agree.
Goodheart
(5,345 posts)On our candidate?
Um, OK. I'll stash that indictment where it belongs.
GiqueCee
(642 posts)... express their strongly worded disagreement with, and disdain for, Mr. Hur's blatantly partisan personal attacks and insults, I, for one, am inclined to defer to their judgement. And many of them, like Hur, are registered Republicans. The remark about remembering the date of Beau's death cannot be defended or excused, and had zero relevance to the basic purpose of Hur's investigation. It was pure, unadulterated malice, and should never have allowed to see the light of day. The fact that it did says nothing good about Garland's judgement or character. He should never have let it happen. But then, he, too, is a Republican, and maybe just a bit too concerned about "appearing partisan". He doesn't seem to understand that his pretzel logic has made it obvious that he is, in fact, exceedingly partisan, in that he has repeatedly given undue deference to Trump's sideshow.
But then, that's just me.
TexasDem69
(1,840 posts)For a report issued by an independent prosecutor?
LetMyPeopleVote
(145,619 posts)In theory, the attorney general could have kept the report secret. In practice, he had only one option. If AG Garland did not release the Hur report, it was going to be either leaked or disclosed by the GOP in a hearing which would give the report far greater exposure and coverage.
Link to tweet
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/02/09/garland-decision-release-hur-report-00140806
In practice, though, burying or censoring the report would have been untenable, former Justice Department leaders say.
They described a high-stakes calculus for both Garland and Hur informed by previous politically sensitive investigations: Special counsel reports have always been made public in recent years, and Garland would have been slammed by Republicans and the press if he tried to keep this one under wraps. Hur, meanwhile, clearly understood that political reality, so the harsh language he included was exactly what he expected the public to see.....
While the DOJ regulations used to appoint special counsels call for their final reports to be confidential and Hur labeled his as such, in recent years it has become customary for attorneys general facing political pressure to vow to release them publicly to the extent the law allows.
Despite the caterwauling from the White House this week, the conclusion of Hurs probe was sure to draw a flurry of Freedom of Information Act requests and lawsuits from news organizations and Bidens political foes. House Republicans could also have subpoenaed the report and related records. The letter Bidens lawyers sent to Hur indicates transcripts exist of the prosecutors interviews with Biden, so the memory lapses Hur cited may have become public whether Hur had colorfully characterized them or not......
And while some Justice Department veterans said the buck stops with Garland, others argued that the attorney general had no choice but to release the report Hur delivered. Hur and his team likely would have understood that their words would become public, even though the report was labeled confidential.
Mr. Hurs report had to be released unedited lest the attorney general were to be accused of protecting President Biden, Rossi said.
Even if the full report was not leaked, the report would had eventually come out when Comer or Gym Jordan subpoenaed Garland, Hur and the report itself. Disclosure of the full report would have been a bigger deal than releasing the report in full this far in advance of the general election.
Skittles
(153,202 posts)what kind of sick fucking shyte IS that?
Beastly Boy
(9,461 posts)It sounds different when you reed the book rather than the reviews.