Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

Beastly Boy

(9,461 posts)
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 09:53 AM Feb 9

I am perplexed, troubled, and yet unsurprised by all the vitriol being directed at Garland and Hur

over the Biden investigation report. Here we have a record of a thorough and exhaustive investigation examining serious allegations against a POTUS, leaving no stone unturned, no facts varnished, no details overlooked, no room for for doubt and completely exonerating POTUS of all the unfounded charges.

Isn't this the definition of "no one is above the law" and "justice being served"? Isn't this the reason why an AG is strictly bound by the laws that define the grounds for appointing a special counsel and an SC is strictly bound by the scope of the responsibilities he receives from an AG?

If Garland were to appoint, say, Hillary as SC and she were to come up with an identical report, she would no doubt be praised to high heaven for it, and so would Garland for choosing her.

Instead, every Garland basher across the political spectrum, each pushing their peculiar talking points that often conflict with each other, is lamenting Garland (more so than Hur, BTW) as an existential threat to democracy. And the grievances that are presented to justify the branding of Garland as a threat to democracy are often, upon closer examination, trivial, partisan, tendentious and antithetical to democratic principles themselves.

... What is going on here???

I see neither the purpose nor the pleasure in portraying Garland as a comic strip villain. Doing so undermines the authority of the Office of the US Attorney General and, perhaps ironically, is contrary to the fundamentals of democratic principles of our government.

240 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
I am perplexed, troubled, and yet unsurprised by all the vitriol being directed at Garland and Hur (Original Post) Beastly Boy Feb 9 OP
Okay. Scrivener7 Feb 9 #1
Hur did a political hack job on Biden. Going after his age? His memory? LeftInTX Feb 9 #2
Thank you for saying it for me Ferrets are Cool Feb 9 #7
In bad taste, gab13by13 Feb 9 #14
Well, my brain hasn't been working too well because I haven't slept at all last night. LeftInTX Feb 9 #20
Exactly what Andrew Weissmann said. gab13by13 Feb 9 #26
It was a clear violation of department norms and regulations redqueen Feb 9 #32
I don't understand why either. Demsrule86 Feb 9 #56
Isn't what you say Hur should have done exactly the same as what Hur has done? Beastly Boy Feb 9 #42
No, when charges are not filed that is what you say...you don't need to write a book and Demsrule86 Feb 9 #58
Spot On yankee87 Feb 9 #84
Actually, it is the investigation that determines whether the charges are filed or not. Beastly Boy Feb 9 #158
I've defended Garland in the past but... Bibbers Feb 9 #229
It certainly took Dr. Jill's breath away. soldierant Feb 12 #240
This is what I responded to: Beastly Boy Feb 9 #223
Funny how you leave out what else Hur did Doc Sportello Feb 9 #65
This may sound like a downer, but Beastly Boy Feb 9 #224
This may sound like reality Doc Sportello Feb 9 #230
Its not that simple. ShazzieB Feb 9 #212
Yes, but without right wing editorializing about Biden's so-called memory lapses. brush Feb 9 #214
But we weaponized the DOJ according to them. Arthur_Frain Feb 9 #67
Claudia The Bitch Tenney BlueKota Feb 9 #228
I am not usually angry either. And those who know me, understand I have supported Garland and Demsrule86 Feb 9 #35
Actually, there is excellent logic, especially in retrospect behind appointing a Trumpster Beastly Boy Feb 9 #47
Biden was not exonerrated...he was attacked with bullshit that helps Trump...again, I don't Demsrule86 Feb 9 #64
If he wasn't exonerated, was Biden charged? Beastly Boy Feb 9 #163
He was purposely made to look weak and foolish. tavernier Feb 9 #169
The way Hur explains it, it was a not so sly hit job to prove absence of malicious intent on Biden's part. Beastly Boy Feb 9 #177
The problem is JustAnotherGen Feb 9 #188
You are faulting Hur on ethical grounds, not legal ones. Beastly Boy Feb 9 #194
I'm where you're at MorbidButterflyTat Feb 9 #160
Finding no grounds for any charges is a political hack job? Beastly Boy Feb 9 #36
What does my good buddy Joe (not Biden) think? gab13by13 Feb 9 #82
Slanderous charges of being "painfully slow?" vanlassie Feb 9 #153
+1 (except the part about not usually being mad.) yardwork Feb 9 #123
Unpopular question: Polybius Feb 10 #236
Indeed. Many people say it is a beautiful and perfect report dalton99a Feb 9 #3
Big strong men with tears in their eyes are saying "sir" when they read it . . . hatrack Feb 9 #4
+1. "Sir, please remind me strongly that you have the world's greatest memory" dalton99a Feb 9 #8
The ones from Meal Team 6 who killed Obama Biladen? limbicnuminousity Feb 9 #193
Thank you for giving me a much-needed laugh! yardwork Feb 9 #125
Wow - am I on DU? NewHendoLib Feb 9 #5
Can I ask where you get your news? gab13by13 Feb 9 #22
I get my news here. I just spend less time and have less to post NewHendoLib Feb 9 #24
Stephanie Miller wryter2000 Feb 9 #132
Are you agreeing with the OP or the entire REST Of DU that is horrified by this unethical, immoral hlthe2b Feb 9 #25
of course I don't - hence my main line of wondering if this is DU NewHendoLib Feb 9 #29
The OP is ONE poster... 'Curious what other positions you've noted lately that seem out of place... hlthe2b Feb 9 #34
Yes, primarily that. But the world in general just seems like it is coming apart at the seams NewHendoLib Feb 9 #37
I can fully appreciate what you are saying... hlthe2b Feb 9 #43
Only so many hours in the day - NewHendoLib Feb 9 #44
I miess you! Cha Feb 9 #201
The entire rest of DU? brooklynite Feb 9 #48
I refrained from name-checking you and your broken record. (Are you going to go after Al Franken again hlthe2b Feb 9 #51
Well said obamanut2012 Feb 9 #62
Nah, he's going to be making more predictions about the primaries Doc Sportello Feb 9 #69
I haven't expressed an opinion at all. brooklynite Feb 9 #70
ROFL hlthe2b Feb 9 #71
brooklynite seems to want to burnish his non-radical credentials quite often BootinUp Feb 9 #77
Really? SocialDemocrat61 Feb 9 #91
This feels like a sitcom sometimes. yardwork Feb 9 #140
I don't deny that I engaged in BootinUp Feb 9 #141
I appreciated it, too! yardwork Feb 9 #142
Don't worry, I am sure the 'rest of DU' did not include you and some others as well. Demsrule86 Feb 9 #79
Spend more time...we need you here to combat those who would defend this attack on Biden. Demsrule86 Feb 9 #39
. NewHendoLib Feb 9 #41
That is adorable...but I mean what I said! Demsrule86 Feb 9 #80
Ditto here. For different reasons, perhaps Beastly Boy Feb 9 #50
I see it exactly the opposite way. yardwork Feb 9 #127
there are always apologists Skittles Feb 10 #234
You don't even mention Hur's political axe to grind. Wow. BootinUp Feb 9 #6
Let's mention it, then Beastly Boy Feb 9 #53
These are dangerous times. We have people in positions BootinUp Feb 9 #57
That should give you comfort in seeing no sighns of Garland not following the fucking rules of his job. Beastly Boy Feb 9 #61
No, lets focus on Hur. the DOJ is supposed to make an effort to appear politically neutral, True of False? BootinUp Feb 9 #68
The answer is yes and yes. Beastly Boy Feb 9 #165
No, his uncharitable personal digs aimed at Pres. Biden sprinkleeninow Feb 9 #189
The goal of this report and its timing DUgosh Feb 9 #9
The headlines I am reading gab13by13 Feb 9 #10
Instead of headlines, I am reading the Code of Federal Regulations Beastly Boy Feb 9 #60
Sublime satire. nt LexVegas Feb 9 #11
Only She Would Not Produce That Report, Sir The Magistrate Feb 9 #12
The editorial commentaries, objectionable as they are, change nothing of the end result, Beastly Boy Feb 9 #63
They Give An Official Color To A Line Sure To Feature In The Coming Campaign The Magistrate Feb 9 #75
Comey's insinuation that Hillary was crooked and needed an investigation tipped the scales Arazi Feb 9 #139
There were no senility/dementia claims in the report. Beastly Boy Feb 9 #168
I'm not. The only thing that surprises me is that it's taken this long for eyes to open. That report was the Autumn Feb 9 #13
You are right Autumn, and I was wrong. Demsrule86 Feb 9 #46
I posted that and figured when I got home I would have a message in my inbox. This is not the one I was expecting. Autumn Feb 9 #148
Would the report recommending charges against Biden not be more disgraceful? Beastly Boy Feb 9 #66
He took two or three years so. Clearly, he was looking for charges. Pence was exonerated with Demsrule86 Feb 9 #94
"Slander" has a specific meaning in law. Beastly Boy Feb 9 #176
Justice? Since when is a political hack job justice? Autumn Feb 9 #149
Define "political hack job" in legal terms, Beastly Boy Feb 9 #172
Try selling that justice BS to Harris and Biden. Pretty sure with their statements they don't see it as justice Autumn Feb 9 #174
That's your legal definition of "political hack job"? Beastly Boy Feb 9 #180
Why on earth would you think that my response has any type of definition in it? Autumn Feb 9 #182
Is that how you evaluate a serious and consequential action vanlassie Feb 9 #157
No, this is how I evaluate the definition of "disgrace". Beastly Boy Feb 9 #171
Are you deliberately ignoring the part vanlassie Feb 9 #184
I sincerely do not know how ANY DUer could see this--actually read the report or at least through, unbiased hlthe2b Feb 9 #15
I read the report, at least the parts of it that are currently making the news. Beastly Boy Feb 9 #73
Are you kidding? You think saying Biden can't remember shit and willfully took the documents Demsrule86 Feb 9 #105
In the context of the report, no, it is not damaging. Beastly Boy Feb 9 #133
He's a very weak man. nt GuppyGal Feb 9 #16
I wouldn't bet on him winning a boxing match against Tyson either. Beastly Boy Feb 9 #74
cool story bro Blues Heron Feb 9 #17
You're right, Merrick deserves respect for bending over backwards really far so as not to appear biased. sop Feb 9 #18
Right so he hired a Trumper guy who was actually appointed in Trump's administration by Demsrule86 Feb 9 #54
And the guy he hired, Trump appointment notwithstanding, rendered a fair decision. Beastly Boy Feb 9 #76
No he did not...it took years and he used a loaded term 'willfully'. Next, he attacked him with Demsrule86 Feb 9 #108
The terms he used notwithstandidn, do you think finding no criminal wrongdoing on Biden's part Beastly Boy Feb 9 #126
He went well beyond that, though.... Happy Hoosier Feb 9 #146
This MustLoveBeagles Feb 9 #150
Garland did exactly what he was supposed to do, agingdem Feb 9 #72
Ever hear of the phrase "Just the facts, ma'am"? LuckyCharms Feb 9 #19
In this case, their choice of being pissed at to such extent, is rather questionable. Beastly Boy Feb 9 #78
You're going to have to dumb that down for me. LuckyCharms Feb 9 #81
And invoking his son's death? MorbidButterflyTat Feb 9 #166
No need to argue. Lunabell Feb 9 #131
I am perplexed and troubled that you don't see what this Trumper attempted to do. Demsrule86 Feb 9 #21
This message was self-deleted by its author redqueen Feb 9 #23
Hopefully Garland will have a talk with Hur, gab13by13 Feb 9 #27
I doubt he will. How is that even helpful anyway? I gave Garland the benefit of the doubt. Even Demsrule86 Feb 9 #28
A lawyer explains: muriel_volestrangler Feb 9 #30
It's not like Garland didn't have clue what was coming. gab13by13 Feb 9 #31
Oh, I suspect Garland had a very good idea whhat was coming. Beastly Boy Feb 9 #83
No, Hur just gave them a new and more lurid story to flog ms liberty Feb 9 #217
Well, my argument resembles yours, only in reverse. Beastly Boy Feb 9 #225
"Ben" Hur is supposed to decide if prosecution is needed or not. GreenWave Feb 9 #33
So Hur decided that the prosecution was not needed. Beastly Boy Feb 9 #85
It is far from the singular. GreenWave Feb 9 #124
This is not surprising. Beastly Boy Feb 9 #128
Was this a hit and run? I note you are not responding to your fellow Duer's questions/comments... hlthe2b Feb 9 #38
Pay attention to the thread. Beastly Boy Feb 9 #87
Hardly. At the point I posted this you had not reponded even once to anyone. hlthe2b Feb 9 #98
At the point you posted. Which is not the case now, that I responded to your post in due time Beastly Boy Feb 9 #103
I most certainly am and THIS is what I say to you: hlthe2b Feb 9 #107
Here is what YOUR LIKE-MINDED "friends" want to do with the "ammo" from this report you so love: hlthe2b Feb 9 #112
And shit like this never happened before the report came out, right? Beastly Boy Feb 9 #119
No It has not. This gave them the ammo, just like the COMEY press conference became the hlthe2b Feb 9 #120
You've got to be kidding. Beastly Boy Feb 9 #122
It gave them what they need to do what I just provided you evidence of. Not done previous. hlthe2b Feb 9 #129
You appear to concede that the right wingers never needed an excuse to attack biden, and at the same time Beastly Boy Feb 9 #159
Your feigned cluelessness on this is ridiculous. hlthe2b Feb 9 #161
Complete absence of the consequences that you insist occurred because of the report are impossible to feign. Beastly Boy Feb 9 #170
I note that EVERYONE on this thread has been very civil/cordial in their vehement disagreement with hlthe2b Feb 9 #173
I offer Hur's report in its entirety and Hur's statements in the context of his report. Beastly Boy Feb 9 #178
I'm sure your reverence for Hur and his report will be welcomed at Breitbart or other RW forums. hlthe2b Feb 9 #179
I disagree... Think. Again. Feb 9 #40
It is not appropriate. So is focusing on appearances rather than the substance of the report. Beastly Boy Feb 9 #88
But that is what the media is doing edhopper Feb 9 #95
The substance of the report is... Think. Again. Feb 9 #104
Overlooking the substance of Hur's report is a choice. Beastly Boy Feb 9 #154
The substance of the report... Think. Again. Feb 9 #156
An expectation of a crime not being committed is not the guiding principle Beastly Boy Feb 9 #167
Wow. Think. Again. Feb 9 #221
I dont get why Garland has all these doc03 Feb 9 #45
None of which addresses the substance of the report. Beastly Boy Feb 9 #90
What is going on here is this maxrandb Feb 9 #49
Is Jack Smith a Retrumplican? Beastly Boy Feb 9 #92
I am glad you bring up Jack Smith maxrandb Feb 9 #106
meanwhile the traitor still walks amongst us almost 4 years after his crimes samsingh Feb 9 #52
So the issues having to do with the due process of law exclusive to the courts Beastly Boy Feb 9 #93
Sorry. I know a lot of Democrats want Garland to be the poster child for McConnell's obstructionism. lees1975 Feb 9 #55
This is not what I am testy about. Beastly Boy Feb 9 #97
What Hur did was wrong Jarqui Feb 9 #59
Finding no grounds in accusations against Biden is wrong? Beastly Boy Feb 9 #100
That is not what I was saying or he was saying Jarqui Feb 9 #102
That's a very free-form of paraphrase. Beastly Boy Feb 9 #111
Nonsense Jarqui Feb 9 #134
Now do the worst quotes awesomerwb1 Feb 9 #147
388 page report Jarqui Feb 10 #233
Hillary was exonerated too...but attacked in much the same way, and it cost us the election. Demsrule86 Feb 9 #109
Don't get me started on reasons Hillary lost the elections. Beastly Boy Feb 9 #121
Now I'm worried about your memory! You believe Comey's announcement on the email investigation hlthe2b Feb 9 #136
I disagree. Hardly a shock to either of us I am sure. Celerity Feb 9 #86
Not bringing charges is not the same as exonerated. Hur found President Biden "willfully retained and disclosed kelly1mm Feb 9 #89
Exonerated of criminal wrongdoing. Beastly Boy Feb 9 #101
With even that Hur couldn't help but twist the knife. Part of the rational kelly1mm Feb 9 #155
Here's what I emailed my local radio wingnut talk show UTUSN Feb 9 #96
We're buying into the right-wing narrative on the report. TwilightZone Feb 9 #99
The report contained a gratuitous suggestion that Biden's memory is bad, Ocelot II Feb 9 #110
A single paragraph in a 300+ page report. Beastly Boy Feb 9 #114
Yup. If everybody would just keep repeating that *the report found no crime* Ocelot II Feb 9 #115
Then why appoint a special counsel? gab13by13 Feb 9 #204
It isn't a mere "mention" sans consequences, Ocelet II. It was quite clearly intentional, leading to: hlthe2b Feb 9 #118
That's the point. They pounced on that single comment, Ocelot II Feb 9 #144
I'll take Biden's position and move on. From Bigtree's post, without attribution. sinkingfeeling Feb 9 #113
You (or rather Bigtree) put your finger on what gets me so pissed. Beastly Boy Feb 9 #116
Garland can't do a damn thing at this point. This guy should never have been appointed. Demsrule86 Feb 9 #117
Are you perplexed about the attacks against Hur? wryter2000 Feb 9 #130
I'm perplexed by your post. There was no reason to stray beyond the decision not to bring Vinca Feb 9 #135
Understandable, you have been a Garland cheer leader since he was appointed, is that not true. republianmushroom Feb 9 #137
removed by poster republianmushroom Feb 9 #138
If there are no charges being brought the report should not oldmanlynn Feb 9 #143
On the contrary. Beastly Boy Feb 9 #190
Hur is an unprofessional goober. Happy Hoosier Feb 9 #145
Have you read anything in Hur's report that relates to your rant? Beastly Boy Feb 9 #186
Then you would be wrong. Happy Hoosier Feb 9 #203
None of tis is gratuitous, let alone deliberately malicious. Beastly Boy Feb 9 #215
Glad you're happy with it senseandsensibility Feb 9 #151
I agree that Hillary would have been more diplomatic with her accounts of the investigation, but Beastly Boy Feb 9 #185
I am perplexed, troubled, and surprised at your surprise at the outrage niyad Feb 9 #152
Yeah MorbidButterflyTat Feb 9 #162
Easy. Barr's conclusion on Mueller's report. Durham's report on Trump's Russia involvement. Beastly Boy Feb 9 #183
So you're saying the Hur report is as bad as Barr's spin on Mueller? muriel_volestrangler Feb 9 #199
No, I am meeting a challenge. Beastly Boy Feb 9 #205
You didn't say anything about "far more closely" muriel_volestrangler Feb 9 #206
Oh please... get serious! Beastly Boy Feb 9 #216
Political hit piece KYBlue Feb 9 #164
Any references from the report about what you are talking about, or how they resemble Fox News or Breitbart? Beastly Boy Feb 9 #181
It's the spin JustAnotherGen Feb 9 #191
My point exactly. Beastly Boy Feb 9 #197
Seems Pretty Silly ProfessorGAC Feb 9 #175
Hur's report lacked the professional decorum JustAnotherGen Feb 9 #187
I happen to agree with Harris' retrospective judgement. Beastly Boy Feb 9 #192
Lack of integrity dpibel Feb 9 #219
My advice... get over yourself. XRubicon Feb 9 #195
Thank you. I will try my best. Beastly Boy Feb 9 #198
No. Just look at the whole thread from arms length. XRubicon Feb 9 #202
Ok. How does any pattern create in me an obligation to get over myself? Beastly Boy Feb 9 #207
LOL. XRubicon Feb 9 #209
I thought you would get a kick out of this one! Beastly Boy Feb 9 #218
Your user name is great XRubicon Feb 9 #231
No wrong doing due to being too old and out of it to TheKentuckian Feb 9 #196
That, if you read the report, is by far the least of the reasons why Hur didn't press charges. Beastly Boy Feb 9 #200
It was media catnip Sympthsical Feb 9 #208
Based on their statements, Biden and Harris weren't pleased. Gore1FL Feb 9 #210
Respectfully, I've defended Merrick Garland Joinfortmill Feb 9 #211
WWRD? (What would repugnantcans do?) Conjuay Feb 9 #213
Recommended. H2O Man Feb 9 #220
So, you're "perplexed" and "troubled" that some of us are upset about an ageist, unprofessional, unethical hit job? Goodheart Feb 9 #222
When some of the most astute legal minds in the country... GiqueCee Feb 9 #226
Why is Garland responsible TexasDem69 Feb 9 #227
'Confidential' in name only: Merrick Garland's delicate decision to release the Hur report LetMyPeopleVote Feb 9 #232
a reference to the death of Biden's son was included? Skittles Feb 10 #235
Well, you decide Beastly Boy Feb 12 #239
Did you get your answer Beastly Boy ? republianmushroom Feb 12 #237
No, but you did. Beastly Boy Feb 12 #238

LeftInTX

(25,567 posts)
2. Hur did a political hack job on Biden. Going after his age? His memory?
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 09:57 AM
Feb 9

All of the commentary was not part of his job.

I fault Garland for poor judgement. (I have never gone after Garland before. He seems to be doing a good job to me. There is more to the job than going after Trump and Biden etc) However, he may not have known how bad Hur would be.

Hur's report was totally in bad taste.

I'm mad.
You usually don't see me mad on DU

gab13by13

(21,412 posts)
14. In bad taste,
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 10:19 AM
Feb 9

you have got to be kidding? Andrew Weissmann called it shameful and a violation of DOJ protocol.

Look what the hell happened because of the Comey report. Thank goodness Hur didn't wait any longer to issue this report, it was due out last year.

What the fuck Hur should have done was state that he thoroughly investigated President Biden and decided there was not sufficient evidence to bring a conviction against President Biden.

Where was the special counsel to investigate Mike Pence?

LeftInTX

(25,567 posts)
20. Well, my brain hasn't been working too well because I haven't slept at all last night.
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 10:25 AM
Feb 9

This was such a shock to me that I couldn't sleep all night.

I agree, Hur should have just done this:

What the fuck Hur should have done was state that he thoroughly investigated President Biden and decided there was not sufficient evidence to bring a conviction against President Biden.

redqueen

(115,103 posts)
32. It was a clear violation of department norms and regulations
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 10:37 AM
Feb 9

I don't know why OP is trying to whitewash it

Demsrule86

(68,696 posts)
58. No, when charges are not filed that is what you say...you don't need to write a book and
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 10:59 AM
Feb 9

attack an innocent person. You are wrong...both of these guys must go and should never be supported by Democrats again.

Beastly Boy

(9,461 posts)
158. Actually, it is the investigation that determines whether the charges are filed or not.
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 03:06 PM
Feb 9

And the SC is expected to write a book that fully accounts for his investigation This was never considered an attack on an innocent person before, and I am wondering what changed and when.

Bibbers

(5 posts)
229. I've defended Garland in the past but...
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 06:30 PM
Feb 9

Did you read the language in Hur's report? It doesn't strike you as a really below-the-belt kick to accuse Biden of not being able to remember the year his son died? I mean, that's so nasty it takes my breath away.

soldierant

(6,934 posts)
240. It certainly took Dr. Jill's breath away.
Mon Feb 12, 2024, 07:47 PM
Feb 12

Her lengthy response (which has been posted here)included the pot that anyone who has experienced such a loss knows that from thet moment time is not measured in years, but in grief.

And yes, I'm angry too. But I really don't know what should have been done, only that if there is anything which should have been done, it wasn't, and the reality is what we need to deal with. I need all my energy for hat, so I'm trying to save it.

Beastly Boy

(9,461 posts)
223. This is what I responded to:
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 06:04 PM
Feb 9

"What the fuck Hur should have done was state that he thoroughly investigated President Biden and decided there was not sufficient evidence to bring a conviction against President Biden."

Isn't this what Hur did? No?

And he was required to write a book that thoroughly accounted for his investigation. that was his job.

Doc Sportello

(7,531 posts)
65. Funny how you leave out what else Hur did
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 11:06 AM
Feb 9

As if the perjorative and, as pointed out by numerous legal scholars and DOJ veterans, unprofessional remarks about Biden's age and memory aren't relevant. Well, we'll find out in the next few months how relevant they are to Biden's re-election as the repubs ramp up their ageist and unfair attacks on Biden. But maybe you are one of those who thinks Comey was "just doing his job" tanking Clinton a few weeks before the 2016 election.

Beastly Boy

(9,461 posts)
224. This may sound like a downer, but
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 06:09 PM
Feb 9

there is no way Republicans can ramp up their ageist and otherwise unfair attacks on Biden. There is no "up" left in their ramping. Their outrage is so worn out, it is no longer making the news cycle. You have to look elsewhere for reasons why this issue is staying in the news.

Doc Sportello

(7,531 posts)
230. This may sound like reality
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 06:30 PM
Feb 9

But yes there are ways. The outrage isn't even the point, to anyone but a few who think it is. It's about playing to voters' psyches. This issue will be one they hit over and over, and it might work in part thanks to Hur's words and the same human failing that has led other fascists to power. Ignoring or minimizing may make you feel better but it is foolish to do so.

ShazzieB

(16,541 posts)
212. Its not that simple.
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 05:47 PM
Feb 9

Yes, Hur did "state that he thoroughly investigated President Biden and decided there was not sufficient evidence to bring a conviction against President Biden." That part was fine. The problem is that he didn't stop there. He threw in a bunch of extraneous comments about Biden's age and memory that were insulting, inappropriate, and unnecessary.

Personally, I am sick and tired of the Garland hate that has been exploding all over DU since the report was released, but I completely understand why people are angry at Hur.

I hope this helps clarify what people are upset about.

brush

(53,896 posts)
214. Yes, but without right wing editorializing about Biden's so-called memory lapses.
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 05:48 PM
Feb 9

Come on, you still don't get that?

Arthur_Frain

(1,862 posts)
67. But we weaponized the DOJ according to them.
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 11:09 AM
Feb 9

For all the kerfuffle, that’s my pushback to anyone who brings this up. As usual, it’s nothing more than projection on the part of the rethugs, an opportunity to distract from their frenzied, ham handed efforts to do it first, and do it harder. This is proof that they do exactly what they accuse us of.

Republicans twist everything and their version of the golden rule is “do unto others before they do unto you”.

BlueKota

(1,796 posts)
228. Claudia The Bitch Tenney
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 06:20 PM
Feb 9

is using that report in a request to Garland to invoke the 25th ammendment against President Biden. So why shouldn't we be mad about the unprofessional bastard Hur? I have heard no former prosecutors defending what he did.

He knew he had no evidence of criminal conduct by President Biden, but he had to go down on his knees to please his orange lord and master Dick head Donny somehow.

I am not saying Garland will grant Tenney's request, but Hur gave her the ammunition to even attempt it. F him.

Demsrule86

(68,696 posts)
35. I am not usually angry either. And those who know me, understand I have supported Garland and
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 10:41 AM
Feb 9

defended him against complaints from fellow DU'ers. Well they were right and I was wrong. Garland is a disaster and has appointed Trumpers for some reason known only to him. I am livid about this report.

Beastly Boy

(9,461 posts)
47. Actually, there is excellent logic, especially in retrospect behind appointing a Trumpster
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 10:48 AM
Feb 9

to exonerate Biden.

How much more powerful of a message this is coming from a Trumpster?

Demsrule86

(68,696 posts)
64. Biden was not exonerrated...he was attacked with bullshit that helps Trump...again, I don't
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 11:06 AM
Feb 9

understand how you miss that. This Trumper attacked Biden and Garland did nothing. This guy should never have been appointed. He attempted to 'Comey' Biden. He can't indict him so he attacks him. I absolutely disagree with this thread and honestly think it should be deleted. There were better choices than this guy. I suppose some will say Garland couldn't interfere with the report being released or the Trumper would have leaked it. No doubt that is true. But he never should have been hired. Garland needs to go ASAP. I can't see him going before the second term-day one.

Hur did damage which was his intention. I hope to fuck this doesn't cost us the election. I leave you with a NBC report that shows what we are up against.

'WASHINGTON — President Joe Biden sidestepped any criminal charges as the investigation into his handling of classified documents concluded, but the political blowback from the special counsel’s report Thursday could prove even more devastating, reinforcing impressions that he is too old and impaired to hold the highest office.

'Special counsel Robert Hur’s portrait of a man who couldn’t remember when he served as Barack Obama’s vice president, or the year when his beloved son Beau died, dealt a blow to Biden’s argument that he is still sharp and fit enough to serve another four-year term.'

Merrick Garland's desire to be perceived as 'fair' hurt us. I hope it didn't cost us the election.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=edit&forum=1002&thread=18666348&pid=18666583

Beastly Boy

(9,461 posts)
163. If he wasn't exonerated, was Biden charged?
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 03:17 PM
Feb 9

Or is there a nebulous void between one and the other that I can't find in any legal manuals?

tavernier

(12,407 posts)
169. He was purposely made to look weak and foolish.
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 03:45 PM
Feb 9

It was a not so sly hit job to try to convince people that he is not suitable for the presidency. It’s one thing to use cutesy little suggestions to make people think that he is decrepit and addled. But to blatantly lie about his words and actions is a criminal act. Hur’s job was to find the truth; not to devise his own version of the facts. He couldn’t make up crap about the investigation itself, so he had to make up crap about the man himself.


Beastly Boy

(9,461 posts)
177. The way Hur explains it, it was a not so sly hit job to prove absence of malicious intent on Biden's part.
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 04:07 PM
Feb 9

I think people are buying it. But apparently, not unanimously.

JustAnotherGen

(31,911 posts)
188. The problem is
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 04:40 PM
Feb 9

He exonerated him - but then couched it in ageism and despicable accusations about his ability to lead due to his age.

I'm not seeing much difference between Hur and Comey today.

Beastly Boy

(9,461 posts)
194. You are faulting Hur on ethical grounds, not legal ones.
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 04:58 PM
Feb 9

It is up to Garland to determine whether any DOJ etical standards were violated and to what extent, but so far I see no evidence that such violations took place.

As far as his prosecutorial skills, I don't see anything I could fault him with.

Notwithstanding the inexplicably popular sentiment, the sky is not falling.

MorbidButterflyTat

(1,855 posts)
160. I'm where you're at
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 03:13 PM
Feb 9

I don't think Garland's been a total washout but what the ever loving fuck with this bullshit report?? Has anyone come out to rightfully lambaste Hur? Prez Biden should not have to be the only one calling out this crap and cheap shots against him.

I won't hold my breath waiting for the suck up media to do its job. Hunter Biden's genitals on the House floor not bad enough? These fuckers are goddamn ghouls!

Beastly Boy

(9,461 posts)
36. Finding no grounds for any charges is a political hack job?
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 10:42 AM
Feb 9

Bad taste is not identical with bad judgement, and is a ridiculous reason to claim a threat to democracy threat to democracy.

vanlassie

(5,691 posts)
153. Slanderous charges of being "painfully slow?"
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 02:50 PM
Feb 9

Out of context. Are you serious? Painful to whom? …Gratuitous and slanderous. Malicious.

Polybius

(15,497 posts)
236. Unpopular question:
Sat Feb 10, 2024, 05:54 AM
Feb 10

What if it was true? Should it have been redacted, or should we have been told like we were?

yardwork

(61,712 posts)
125. Thank you for giving me a much-needed laugh!
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 12:42 PM
Feb 9

Last edited Fri Feb 9, 2024, 01:22 PM - Edit history (1)

I was up in the middle of the night about this and that hadn't happened since the orange shit gibbon last befouled the White House.

edit: spelling. Damn autocorrect.

NewHendoLib

(60,022 posts)
5. Wow - am I on DU?
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 10:06 AM
Feb 9


Just another example on why this place seems pretty foreign to me lately and I spend far less time here.

gab13by13

(21,412 posts)
22. Can I ask where you get your news?
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 10:26 AM
Feb 9

DU is my #1 go to source, many people disagree with my opinions, disagree with me personally, but calling DU foreign is foreign to me.

I got my news from Nicolle Wallace, now I click on msnbc and see who the guests are, if I like the guests I will watch for their opinions not for the cable news anchor's opinion. I watch Stephanie Miller and Thom Hartmann and a few other social media sites.

Where do you go?

NewHendoLib

(60,022 posts)
24. I get my news here. I just spend less time and have less to post
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 10:29 AM
Feb 9

I don't watch any TV news. I get Sunday NYT.

hlthe2b

(102,382 posts)
25. Are you agreeing with the OP or the entire REST Of DU that is horrified by this unethical, immoral
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 10:31 AM
Feb 9

commentary (with clear political aims) included as the very FOCUS of an official legal report whose findings GRUDGINGLY must admit to a lack of evidence against Biden? Your post does not make it clear one way or another.

I could not agree more with Andrew Weissman:




NewHendoLib

(60,022 posts)
29. of course I don't - hence my main line of wondering if this is DU
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 10:36 AM
Feb 9

I've been here 20 years and haven't changed from my Dem/strong liberal standing

but the infighting here, and odd reads on things - I feel like lots of DU has moved away from where my politics reside.

hlthe2b

(102,383 posts)
34. The OP is ONE poster... 'Curious what other positions you've noted lately that seem out of place...
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 10:38 AM
Feb 9

The IP infighting undoubtedly drove off a lot of posters regardless of sides/positions--very ugly time here. Was it more than that?

NewHendoLib

(60,022 posts)
37. Yes, primarily that. But the world in general just seems like it is coming apart at the seams
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 10:42 AM
Feb 9

At this point in my life, I spend much much more time in my family/dogs/cats/hobbies/arts bubble.

hlthe2b

(102,383 posts)
43. I can fully appreciate what you are saying...
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 10:45 AM
Feb 9

Most days the most inciteful conversations I have in this time of turmoil--come from those with my beloved dog.

NewHendoLib

(60,022 posts)
44. Only so many hours in the day -
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 10:47 AM
Feb 9

I am working on book 3 (will be self published) and have 25 speaking garden events, a second garden to help tend...hiking - kayaking - as the years pass by, one can only be pulled in so many directions!

hlthe2b

(102,383 posts)
51. I refrained from name-checking you and your broken record. (Are you going to go after Al Franken again
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 10:53 AM
Feb 9

too? )

brooklynite

(94,748 posts)
70. I haven't expressed an opinion at all.
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 11:15 AM
Feb 9

I’m traveling and haven’t read the report. I just don’t like baseless “we all agree” hyperbole.

Not clear what any of this has to do with Al Franken.

SocialDemocrat61

(640 posts)
91. Really?
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 11:47 AM
Feb 9

I thought it was about bragging about being a big shot, smarter than everyone here and defending rich white guys & media corporations. 😉

Demsrule86

(68,696 posts)
39. Spend more time...we need you here to combat those who would defend this attack on Biden.
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 10:42 AM
Feb 9

And I like you and enjoy your posts. Heart to you!!!

yardwork

(61,712 posts)
127. I see it exactly the opposite way.
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 12:45 PM
Feb 9

I see one or two people defending Garland and Hur and a strong majority of DUers expressing outrage about this report.

DU seems like a comfortable cozy place to me, right now.

Beastly Boy

(9,461 posts)
53. Let's mention it, then
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 10:55 AM
Feb 9

Despite his presumed collection of axes to grind, he found no legal fault in Biden's retention of classified documents.

How consequential is that? Or are his axes take precedent over his decision?

BootinUp

(47,197 posts)
57. These are dangerous times. We have people in positions
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 10:59 AM
Feb 9

of power to conduct official business of the government, who don't want to follow the fucking rules of their job. Either they have been influenced by propaganda and think they must break the rules to save something, wrongly, or they are fishing for billionaire gifts.

BootinUp

(47,197 posts)
68. No, lets focus on Hur. the DOJ is supposed to make an effort to appear politically neutral, True of False?
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 11:10 AM
Feb 9

I am saying that is a requirement of the job.

Followup , is whether you think he was following that requirement or not.

As far as Garland is concerned, I find him to be a political dunce, who should have known better but take no other issue with him.

Beastly Boy

(9,461 posts)
165. The answer is yes and yes.
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 03:24 PM
Feb 9

Yes, Hur was supposed to make an effort to be politically neutral, and yes he did just that.

I would argue that ageism, while not exactly commendable, is very much politically neutral. You are welcome to disagree.

sprinkleeninow

(20,267 posts)
189. No, his uncharitable personal digs aimed at Pres. Biden
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 04:43 PM
Feb 9

were in the realm of 'not politically neutral'.

His bogus personal character assessments of our President weren't professional, was out of order and now all the cable news, etc. are yapping about this presently plus being consumed by it.

DUgosh

(3,058 posts)
9. The goal of this report and its timing
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 10:10 AM
Feb 9

Were to give red states the justification to leave Joe off the ballot. However the SC will rule against removing candidates and they never saw that coming.

gab13by13

(21,412 posts)
10. The headlines I am reading
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 10:13 AM
Feb 9

the narrative that I see the MSM pushing is that Congressional Magats are calling for invoking the 25th Amendment on Presideent Biden.

Didn't Hur's boss even read the despicable report before it was released?

Andrew Weissmann stated that he worked in the justice department for 20 years and wrote numerous reports and what he saw from the Hur report not only violated DOJ protocol and policy, but it was misleading and shameful.

Not my words, words from someone who most likely wrote hundreds of reports.

I do not understand for the life of me why you are praising such a misleading report. Weissmann said it was just like the Comey report.

Beastly Boy

(9,461 posts)
60. Instead of headlines, I am reading the Code of Federal Regulations
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 11:00 AM
Feb 9

And it appears the right wing narrative you are reporting on hasn't changed one bit since the report came out.

Good to know.

The Magistrate

(95,255 posts)
12. Only She Would Not Produce That Report, Sir
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 10:14 AM
Feb 9

She would not inject editorial commentary which will feature in attack ads during the campaign.

Hur's political bias was clear from his resume.

Selecting him was a mistake at best.

They are made, you know. Even by High Poo-Bahs in Democratic administrations.

Beastly Boy

(9,461 posts)
63. The editorial commentaries, objectionable as they are, change nothing of the end result,
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 11:04 AM
Feb 9

other than leave a bad taste in one's mouth. Hardly a threat to democracy.

The Magistrate

(95,255 posts)
75. They Give An Official Color To A Line Sure To Feature In The Coming Campaign
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 11:21 AM
Feb 9

It's a common enough ploy:

But it's not just the candidate saying this, let's look at this hard-hitting spot....The words will be flashed over whatever image is displayed, in quotes, with attribution to 'special counsel's report' in nice clear letters the while.

Marketing works; repetition lodges things in people's minds.

Arazi

(6,829 posts)
139. Comey's insinuation that Hillary was crooked and needed an investigation tipped the scales
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 01:22 PM
Feb 9

It solidified in many minds that all the rumors about her scamming taxpayers was true

It certainly tipped the scales and resulted in a massive threat to our democracy.

The senility/dementia claims against Biden act in the same way, especially codified into an official DOJ report. The impact can’t be understated

Beastly Boy

(9,461 posts)
168. There were no senility/dementia claims in the report.
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 03:37 PM
Feb 9

There were passing mentions of observations in the course of the investigation of Biden's forgetfulness, which are presented as evidence of absence of intent to commit a criminal offense. Intent is a pivotal element in any investigation

Autumn

(45,120 posts)
13. I'm not. The only thing that surprises me is that it's taken this long for eyes to open. That report was the
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 10:15 AM
Feb 9

most disgraceful thing I have ever seen.

Demsrule86

(68,696 posts)
46. You are right Autumn, and I was wrong.
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 10:47 AM
Feb 9

I gave Garland the benefit of the doubt and I shouldn't have done so. Hearts for you!!!

Autumn

(45,120 posts)
148. I posted that and figured when I got home I would have a message in my inbox. This is not the one I was expecting.
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 02:28 PM
Feb 9
We are first of all Democrats, and we have seen this before. Several times if memory serves me. The last time with devastating consequences. Thank you for the hearts

Beastly Boy

(9,461 posts)
66. Would the report recommending charges against Biden not be more disgraceful?
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 11:07 AM
Feb 9

That didn't happen, did it?

Justice was done, perhaps not in the way you would have preferred. Is this so disgraceful?

Demsrule86

(68,696 posts)
94. He took two or three years so. Clearly, he was looking for charges. Pence was exonerated with
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 11:54 AM
Feb 9

no snark in no time with no snark. It is not an either-or. And yes, this is disgraceful. A person who faces no charges should not be slandered. First of all, it is against policy. And secondly, it screams partisan bullshit.

Beastly Boy

(9,461 posts)
176. "Slander" has a specific meaning in law.
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 04:02 PM
Feb 9

Tell me what specific comments Hur made that amount to slander.

Please quote him, if you are familiar with what he actually said. And if you are not aware of any statements Hur made, by all means, feel free to claim entitlement to your opinions.

Autumn

(45,120 posts)
149. Justice? Since when is a political hack job justice?
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 02:35 PM
Feb 9

Disgraceful lies and innuendos all approved by Garland. Yeah he had a lot of information, in his personal papers. That happens when you move out of the White House or VP residence in just a few hours and someone does all the packing for you.

I will send a nice campaign donation to the first Democrat who calls for Garlands resignation.

Beastly Boy

(9,461 posts)
172. Define "political hack job" in legal terms,
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 03:57 PM
Feb 9

so I can understand better how in hell it relates to your understanding of justice, and I just might be able to contrast one with the other for you.

Autumn

(45,120 posts)
174. Try selling that justice BS to Harris and Biden. Pretty sure with their statements they don't see it as justice
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 04:01 PM
Feb 9

either.

Beastly Boy

(9,461 posts)
180. That's your legal definition of "political hack job"?
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 04:16 PM
Feb 9

I am pretty sure Biden is personally offended by Hur's remarks. I as hell would be too, and I would react in a very similar manner.

A personal offense, however, does not amount to a political hack job.

Autumn

(45,120 posts)
182. Why on earth would you think that my response has any type of definition in it?
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 04:25 PM
Feb 9

I commented on one aspect of your post. If you want a definition of what I said a couple of posts ago try Google.


Reply to Beastly Boy (Reply #172)
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 08:01 PM
Try selling that justice BS to Harris and Biden. Pretty sure with their statements they don't see it as justice
either.


As you can see my comment was on "justice" and what the President and the VP think of the doj's findings.

vanlassie

(5,691 posts)
157. Is that how you evaluate a serious and consequential action
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 03:05 PM
Feb 9

such as this- “It could have been worse?” False and misleading, insulting and demeaning unprofessional comments?
As far as I am aware, this guy Hur IS NOT A MEDICAL OR MENTAL HEALTH EVALUATOR. Correct me if I’m wrong.

Beastly Boy

(9,461 posts)
171. No, this is how I evaluate the definition of "disgrace".
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 03:55 PM
Feb 9

And Hur was not evaluating any medical conditions. He was evaluating absence of intent in Biden's actions. Very much a legal concept, which he is fully qualified to comment on.

vanlassie

(5,691 posts)
184. Are you deliberately ignoring the part
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 04:32 PM
Feb 9

of the report in which Hur indulged in a personal judgement of the “painfullness” of Biden’s responses? As if he had any right to judge inconsequential demeanor? I could just as well say Biden’s answers were painfully slow because he was playing 3-D chess in his mind regarding what to do about Hamas, Bibi and documents left in his garage a few years ago. And, in what world is it noteworthy that ANY detail of a beloved son’s tragic death was forgotten?

hlthe2b

(102,383 posts)
15. I sincerely do not know how ANY DUer could see this--actually read the report or at least through, unbiased
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 10:21 AM
Feb 9

reporting on it and then come here to defend it--and that includes Hur and Garland. Clearly, 99% of DU feels quite differently than you. Maybe there is an answer to your question examining the reasons for THAT? Perhaps you've forgotten the context of Comey. I would suggest you think about the grotesque similarities in what happened then and yesterday.

Beastly Boy

(9,461 posts)
73. I read the report, at least the parts of it that are currently making the news.
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 11:17 AM
Feb 9

The report is consequentioal, and the commentaries on its trivial details are not.

I don't see how anyone can think of a report, from a Republican SC no less, that fully exonerates Biden of any wrongdoing, as anything other than good news.

This kind of not seeing the forest from the trees is what perplexes me the most.

Demsrule86

(68,696 posts)
105. Are you kidding? You think saying Biden can't remember shit and willfully took the documents
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 12:08 PM
Feb 9

is not damaging? Well, I have worked elections my entire life and I am telling you that is not true. Pence was exonerated in no time with no special prosecutor appointed. Biden got 'Hillary via Comey' treatment.

Beastly Boy

(9,461 posts)
133. In the context of the report, no, it is not damaging.
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 12:53 PM
Feb 9

What Hur actually reported is this:

We have also considered that, at trial, Mr. Eiden would likely present himself to a jury, as he did during our interview of him, as a sympathetic, well-meaning, elderly man with a poor memory. Based on our direct interactions with and observations of him, he is someone for whom many jurors will want to identify reasonable doubt. It would be difficult to convince a jury that they should convict him-by then a former president well into his eighties-of a serious felony that requires a mental state of willfulness.



under the paragraph stating "there are other innocent explanations for the documents that we cannot refute."

A side note blown out of all proportions by the spinmeisters.

sop

(10,267 posts)
18. You're right, Merrick deserves respect for bending over backwards really far so as not to appear biased.
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 10:24 AM
Feb 9

He should be congratulated for not wanting to give the impression he's acting as Biden's "personal lawyer," like Barr and Trump. And I guess Garland's just doing his job by selecting a special prosecutor, a guy appointed by Trump in 2018, to produce a report that reads like it was written by a social worker in a nursing home.

Demsrule86

(68,696 posts)
54. Right so he hired a Trumper guy who was actually appointed in Trump's administration by
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 10:55 AM
Feb 9

Trump, surely there were better choices...how about a fair person? And then Garland didn't even supervise him...all that needed to be said was no charges would be filed. Fuck both of them. President Biden dump Garland on day one of your second term.

Beastly Boy

(9,461 posts)
76. And the guy he hired, Trump appointment notwithstanding, rendered a fair decision.
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 11:22 AM
Feb 9

Or do you think exonerating Biden is not fair?

Demsrule86

(68,696 posts)
108. No he did not...it took years and he used a loaded term 'willfully'. Next, he attacked him with
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 12:12 PM
Feb 9

superfluous bullshit...about memory ETC. But the thing that really stands out is the comment about Beau Biden...how dare he? This was not an exoneration...that would have been simply 'no criminal charge ' This report was a hit job and damaging. Defend it if you choose. I will not.

Beastly Boy

(9,461 posts)
126. The terms he used notwithstandidn, do you think finding no criminal wrongdoing on Biden's part
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 12:42 PM
Feb 9

is an unfair decision?

Happy Hoosier

(7,397 posts)
146. He went well beyond that, though....
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 02:20 PM
Feb 9

Determiningf that charges should not be leveled is where it should have ended. His political attack on Biden has no place in the report. At all.

agingdem

(7,861 posts)
72. Garland did exactly what he was supposed to do,
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 11:17 AM
Feb 9

something that has been done decades past prior to Trump, appear unbiased and appoint a special counsel of opposite party...Garland is not Bill Barr (put in office to cover Trump's stinking ass)...Garland is the people's lawyer...and no he does not have control over what goes into the report and he shouldn't...Biden asked the report be presented in it's entirely with no redactions...Biden and his team knew what was coming and prepared for it..that's why the swift pushback..the onus is on Robert Hur, revealing himself to be not a lawyer of integrity but another Trump ass-kissing hack...

.

LuckyCharms

(17,460 posts)
19. Ever hear of the phrase "Just the facts, ma'am"?
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 10:24 AM
Feb 9

Investigative reports should contain just the facts, not conjecture.

That's why people, including myself, are pissed.

But you know that.

Beastly Boy

(9,461 posts)
78. In this case, their choice of being pissed at to such extent, is rather questionable.
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 11:27 AM
Feb 9

Are they pissed at the report or the attitude of the SC expressed in the report?

What is consequential and what is not in their choice of the target being pissed at?

When there is a will, there is no report ever made that one cannot find something to be pissed at.

LuckyCharms

(17,460 posts)
81. You're going to have to dumb that down for me.
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 11:30 AM
Feb 9

I have no fucking idea what you just typed.

Again, I am pissed at the conjecture related to president Biden's memory.

Capiche?

Demsrule86

(68,696 posts)
21. I am perplexed and troubled that you don't see what this Trumper attempted to do.
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 10:25 AM
Feb 9

He was appointed by Trump and the thing I find unforgivable is the remarks he made about Biden's not remembering the day his son died. How dare he. He was appointed by Trump in his administration and should never have been selected by Garland. At the very least, Garland should have read the report. Mike Pence got a no-charge period with no added garbage analysis.

This guy wrote a book in this report about Biden's memory and the rest of crap he added to the report. He asked questions about 40-year-old shit...doing a favor for his former boss I suppose. The only thing that was needed was 'no charges filed'. The rest is yet again the 'comeying' of yet another Democrat. I hold Garland responsible for hiring this guy and I assume not reading his report. If he read it and allowed it to go out...that's even worse.

I believe the he only reason we got charges filed against Trump is the work done in the House and Jack Smith's efforts. Garland surely did little in two years. The only good thing he did was to hire Jack Smith as special counsel. Garland even allowed the FBI to miss two locked rooms because of lack of supervision. He knew the FBI didn't want to do it and and had to be ordered to search Trump's shitty house. I have supported Garland until now. Even though his so called 'bipartisan concerns' delayed bringing Trump to justice. I was always troubled about Garland's inaction on this matter. but gave him the benefit of the doubt. No more, Biden should fire Garland on day 1 of his second term.

Response to Beastly Boy (Original post)

gab13by13

(21,412 posts)
27. Hopefully Garland will have a talk with Hur,
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 10:34 AM
Feb 9

in private of course, about how his report violated DOJ norms and protocol.

That would assume though, that garland never read the report before it was issued.

Demsrule86

(68,696 posts)
28. I doubt he will. How is that even helpful anyway? I gave Garland the benefit of the doubt. Even
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 10:36 AM
Feb 9

though his inaction and actions troubled me. But no more. He needs to go on day one of Biden's second term.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,378 posts)
30. A lawyer explains:
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 10:36 AM
Feb 9
It’s difficult to overstate what an absolutely astonishing own goal Merrick Garland scored by appointing Robert Hur to lead the Biden documents case.

Hur was nominated by Donald Trump to be the US Attorney for the District of Maryland. US Attorney positions are extremely important POLITICAL appointments. It’s routine for all or nearly all the USAs appointed by one presidential administration to resign their offices within a few weeks after a new administration comes into office, assuming of course that the new administration represents the other major party. That’s because it doesn’t make any more sense for a Republican USA to keep his job under a Democratic president than for a Republican head of an administrative agency to keep his job when a Democrat takes office.

Again, these are POLITICAL positions, that involve making POLITICALLY charged judgments, because as various observers have noted in recent centuries, there’s a close relationship between law and politics at all but the most routine levels of legal decision making.
...
Merrick Garland should be fired immediately. He has one of the most important jobs in the United States, and he’s absolutely terrible at it, which is a bad combination, especially when there’s a little light sedition in the air. Yes I get it that Biden would take a big political hit in the short term for doing this absolutely warranted a thousand times over thing, but first, the public has the attention span of a fruit fly, and second, riddle me this:

https://www.lawyersgunsmoneyblog.com/2024/02/elite-lawyer-brain-is-killing-us

gab13by13

(21,412 posts)
31. It's not like Garland didn't have clue what was coming.
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 10:37 AM
Feb 9

Garland also appointed special counsel Weiss who is also a Trump nominee.

Beastly Boy

(9,461 posts)
83. Oh, I suspect Garland had a very good idea whhat was coming.
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 11:35 AM
Feb 9

With the nearly certain likelyhood of the report finding no fault in Biden's conduct, it made good sense to appoint a Republican to issue the report. As we can see, Garland's gambit paid off big time. A Republican exonerated Biden.

This alone is going to shut a good portion of Biden detractors up.

ms liberty

(8,601 posts)
217. No, Hur just gave them a new and more lurid story to flog
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 05:55 PM
Feb 9

The language in the report was biased. There are far less salacious and derogatory ways to have said the exact same thing, but he didn't take them. That's not just my opinion as some rando on the internet, it's the opinion of Andrew Weissman and others who actually do know what they're talking about.
The fact that Hur exonerated Biden is buried by the smear he perpetrated in his deliberately demeaning choice of words. He knew how it would land, and if Merrick Garland didn't, then he's far stupider than I ever would have believed - or too naive for DC.

Beastly Boy

(9,461 posts)
225. Well, my argument resembles yours, only in reverse.
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 06:13 PM
Feb 9

Nobody is paying attention to Hur exonerating Biden. And I keep asking why. That's the big news, and it is being disregarded in favor of the more salacious over the top accusations that keep Hur and Garland in the news.

WTF?

GreenWave

(6,766 posts)
33. "Ben" Hur is supposed to decide if prosecution is needed or not.
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 10:38 AM
Feb 9

After that, go home. But he could not shut his mouth and went off on Biden with his amateurish assessment of Biden's mental abilities.

Beastly Boy

(9,461 posts)
85. So Hur decided that the prosecution was not needed.
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 11:40 AM
Feb 9

As he made his decision, he made an inappropriate comment, a comment that didn't affect his decision one it.

So let's ignore the consequences of his decision in favor of making objections to things of no consequence.

GreenWave

(6,766 posts)
124. It is far from the singular.
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 12:39 PM
Feb 9

The RW media and pseudo central had a field day yesterday focusing on the negatives., as they ignored the finding.

Beastly Boy

(9,461 posts)
128. This is not surprising.
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 12:45 PM
Feb 9

It is the decidedly non-right wingers having a field day focusing on the negatives and ignoring the findings that disturbs me.

hlthe2b

(102,383 posts)
38. Was this a hit and run? I note you are not responding to your fellow Duer's questions/comments...
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 10:42 AM
Feb 9

I'd think you'd want to counter our collective "confusion," "errors," or 'failure to understand the issues' per your POV?

hlthe2b

(102,383 posts)
98. Hardly. At the point I posted this you had not reponded even once to anyone.
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 11:58 AM
Feb 9

So, perhaps pay attention to your OWN thread. You won't change minds with this rudeness.

Beastly Boy

(9,461 posts)
103. At the point you posted. Which is not the case now, that I responded to your post in due time
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 12:07 PM
Feb 9

I am payinf attention. Are you?

hlthe2b

(102,383 posts)
107. I most certainly am and THIS is what I say to you:
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 12:10 PM
Feb 9
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100218666842#post2
2. EXACTLY how I feel. To those handful of posters defending Hur and this report, where is your humanity?
Reply to gab13by13 (Original post)
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 09:07 AM

(I do not believe for one minute they are unaware of this direct line of attack on Biden and his purported memory problems-- nor the intentional disregard that the five-hour interview occurred IMMEDIATELY after the October 7 Hamas attack on Israel. This was as savage a misdirected political attack delivered under the guise of "investigation" as you could get. And for some to defend this--well, I fear for our collective future if that is what we are all to become.


in response to:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100218666842

I Have One Last Thing To Say About Hur's Report

Robert Hur wrote in his report that President Biden couldn't even remember when his son died.

What a horrible, despicable thing to say. Everyfuckingbody should be condemning Hur for putting that lie in his report.

If Merrick Garland read that line in Hur's report and allowed it to be made public, then Garland is complicit.

No President Biden can't fire Garland, it is way too late, besides, I'm not sure that incompetence is legal grounds for firing someone.

I'm going grocery shopping, maybe I will buy a chunk of big fat bologna.

hlthe2b

(102,383 posts)
112. Here is what YOUR LIKE-MINDED "friends" want to do with the "ammo" from this report you so love:
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 12:17 PM
Feb 9

and fully defend.

GOP lawmaker calls on Cabinet to ‘explore’ removing Biden under 25th Amendment

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/4457661-gop-lawmaker-calls-cabinet-explore-removing-biden-25th-amendment/

Rep. Claudia Tenney (R-N.Y.) called on members of the Biden administration to “explore” removing President Biden under the 25th Amendment after a special counsel cleared him of wrongdoing but painted him as an elderly man with a failing memory.

In a letter obtained by The Hill, Tenney wrote to Attorney General Merrick Garland on Thursday night to share her “grave concerns.”

“After concluding that President Biden knowingly and willfully removed, mishandled, and disclosed classified documents repeatedly over a period of decades, Mr. Hur nevertheless recommended that charges not be brought against him,” her letter said. “Special Counsel’s reasoning was alarming.”


How damned predictable (at least for those of us paying attention)

hlthe2b

(102,383 posts)
120. No It has not. This gave them the ammo, just like the COMEY press conference became the
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 12:31 PM
Feb 9

entire media story days before the '16 election. Same BS tactic.

hlthe2b

(102,383 posts)
129. It gave them what they need to do what I just provided you evidence of. Not done previous.
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 12:47 PM
Feb 9

NO WHERE EVER did I or anyone else on DU ever say the RW had not been attacking Biden on his age prior. So, too have some of our own (Dems) with poorly-concealed ageist bigotry masked as "concern." So, perhaps that is why some are not bothered by this report and the fact it has damaged Biden in a way that could be disastrous to us all.

Rather than defend him, though some feel the need to defend the highly partisan SC and the media whose focus has been solely on the ageist memory issues--including the accusation that Biden couldn't even remember the DEATH OF HIS OWN SON. How damned inhumane! Do YOU DEFEND THAT TOO?

Beastly Boy

(9,461 posts)
159. You appear to concede that the right wingers never needed an excuse to attack biden, and at the same time
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 03:11 PM
Feb 9

say that the report gave them the opportunity to attack Biden. So what changed because of this report?

hlthe2b

(102,383 posts)
161. Your feigned cluelessness on this is ridiculous.
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 03:13 PM
Feb 9

and the key word is "feigned." YOU KNOW BETTER. And I am done with the act.

Beastly Boy

(9,461 posts)
170. Complete absence of the consequences that you insist occurred because of the report are impossible to feign.
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 03:49 PM
Feb 9

They are self-evident.

And the tempest in the teacup being stirred over a nothingburger of a passing observation is on the agenda-driven interpreters of the report, not the prosecutors that generated it. And I have yet to hear the outrage over the relentless spin that followed.

hlthe2b

(102,383 posts)
173. I note that EVERYONE on this thread has been very civil/cordial in their vehement disagreement with
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 04:00 PM
Feb 9

you, but now, having gone after the same feigned clueless talking points for hours, I can only conclude you are trying to bait some into being less civil.

You be you, but for me, I will simply IGNORE your further nonsense. I support President Biden. That you seemingly don't--to the point where you offer nothing but defense for the political attacks against him-- has been made unbelievably clear to me.

Beastly Boy

(9,461 posts)
178. I offer Hur's report in its entirety and Hur's statements in the context of his report.
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 04:11 PM
Feb 9

That is far more civil than the judgemental responses I received, yours included.

hlthe2b

(102,383 posts)
179. I'm sure your reverence for Hur and his report will be welcomed at Breitbart or other RW forums.
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 04:13 PM
Feb 9

Why waste your time here? You clearly have nothing but disdain for your fellow DUers, nor our President.

Think. Again.

(8,443 posts)
40. I disagree...
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 10:43 AM
Feb 9

I do not believe that subjective personal opinion on non-criminal topics is appropriate in a criminal investigative report.

Evidence of criminality is what should be included, nothing more.

edhopper

(33,627 posts)
95. But that is what the media is doing
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 11:54 AM
Feb 9

that is what the GOP is doing. And Garland has not pushed back.
You fail to see the damage this unprofessional report is doing.

Think. Again.

(8,443 posts)
104. The substance of the report is...
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 12:08 PM
Feb 9

...being overlooked acroos the board due to the unprofessional and personally cruel content that should never have been in the report in the first place, and that's why it should not be there.

It is appropriate for the public to call out misdeeds of the special counsel.

Beastly Boy

(9,461 posts)
154. Overlooking the substance of Hur's report is a choice.
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 02:53 PM
Feb 9

And not a good one. A more damning comment about personal choices than it is of Hur's report.

Think. Again.

(8,443 posts)
156. The substance of the report...
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 03:02 PM
Feb 9

...is not anything new to the people here.

Biden did not commit any crimes with his documents, duh. That doesn't deserve any special attention. Not committing crimes is expected.

However, the import of the report is that a Special Counsel wrongly abused his position for partisan gain. That does deserve attention.

Beastly Boy

(9,461 posts)
167. An expectation of a crime not being committed is not the guiding principle
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 03:32 PM
Feb 9

in conducting an investigation. Evidence of the same is.

Of course examination of evidence deserves special attention. This is the whole purpose of conducting an investigation, isn't it? And I don't see how the content of the report hints at anything resembling abuse of power on Hur's part. Granted, I didn't read it in its entirety, but perhaps you can quote the passage(s) that make you suspect abuse of power for partisan gain.

doc03

(35,382 posts)
45. I dont get why Garland has all these
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 10:47 AM
Feb 9

defenders. He sat on the Jan 6 for two years before appointing Jack Smith. He assigns a SC
to Hunter Biden after he was cleared of gun charges. Now he makes an ad for the Trump campaign. The guy goes so far right to not appear political he just as well be Bill Barr.

maxrandb

(15,360 posts)
49. What is going on here is this
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 10:49 AM
Feb 9

Every...EVERY Special Counsel that has been appointed in the last 50+ years has been a Retrumplican.

If they are appointed to investigate a Retrumplican, the Special Counsel is a "lifelong" Retrumplican.

If they are appointed to investigate a Democrat, the Special Counsel is a "lifelong" Retrumplican.

If they are appointed to investigate an Independent, the Special Counsel is a "lifelong" Retrumplican.

If you pulled names out of a hat you couldn't get the same appointment record, unless every name in the hat was a lifelong Retrumplican.

I guess it would be fine if both sides were truly honest brokers, but the Retrumplican Party hasn't believed in the rule of law for at least 50-60 years.

So, instead of getting a "just the facts ma'am" report, you get political hatchet jobs like this, and the reports on both Clintons.

My Gawd Man! The Retrumplican Party views and uses law and justice as nothing but a political weapon.

The better question would be to ask why "you" aren't fucking pissed off about it?

Beastly Boy

(9,461 posts)
92. Is Jack Smith a Retrumplican?
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 11:51 AM
Feb 9

I am not fucking pissed at the report because it found no reason to go after Biden. Good reason to not be pissed, no?

And I am pissed about side issues being blown out of proportions because, well, they are side issues blown out of proportion that do not address the essence of the report.

maxrandb

(15,360 posts)
106. I am glad you bring up Jack Smith
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 12:09 PM
Feb 9

He is described as unaffiliated, but it's pretty apparent that he is NOT a Democrat.

A better analogy for you to site would be to simply look at the appointment of Hur in comparison.

Hur was appointed to this DOJ job by Donnie Dipshit. Hur is a lifelong Retrumplican and a member of the Reich-Wing Federalist Society. Hur chose to clerk and work for folks to the EXTREME right of the political spectrum. What you can find of Hur's political positions show him to be full-on MAGAt.

So, while Jack Smith appears to be apolitical, if Garland appointed such a hugely partisan person as Hur to investigate President Biden, why not Eric Holder to investigate Donnie Dipshit.?

Could you imagine the howling if that has happened?

But, Democrats are supposed to just suck-it-up when clear partisans are appointed to investigate them and produce clear political hatchet-job reports against them.

It's the 50 year double-standard that is infuriating.

samsingh

(17,601 posts)
52. meanwhile the traitor still walks amongst us almost 4 years after his crimes
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 10:53 AM
Feb 9

nothing garland has done has held him to account. In fact, the special council investigating trump is stuck with a judge who is pro-trump like she's worshiping a dictator.

Beastly Boy

(9,461 posts)
93. So the issues having to do with the due process of law exclusive to the courts
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 11:54 AM
Feb 9

are now Garland's fault too.

And he has control over it... how?

lees1975

(3,880 posts)
55. Sorry. I know a lot of Democrats want Garland to be the poster child for McConnell's obstructionism.
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 10:56 AM
Feb 9

But it's ok to be unhappy with the manner in which he has handled the job as Attorney General. With the evidence laid out, a special counsel in place a year prior to when it actually happened, Trump would be irrelevant and behind bars by now.

Let him finish out his term. But don't get testy when people criticize his mistakes.

Beastly Boy

(9,461 posts)
97. This is not what I am testy about.
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 11:58 AM
Feb 9

It is the usual "sky is falling" attitude embedded in this criticism.

Garland an agent of destruction of America's democracy?

Frankly, he gets too much credit from his detractors.

Jarqui

(10,130 posts)
59. What Hur did was wrong
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 10:59 AM
Feb 9

Garland picked him and allowed the report to go out, so he wears a hunk of the blame. Period.

Bring up the most horrific loss: the death of his son, which Joe obviously took vary, very hard & it still wounds him - never heals, and expect him to function normally immediately after? And then tarnish him for it in a report. How much lower can somebody go?

Something stinks big time here.
It is very much like the Comey hit job

Jarqui

(10,130 posts)
102. That is not what I was saying or he was saying
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 12:05 PM
Feb 9

More or less (paraphrased) "he's too elderly and fucked up mentally to charge"

That is a hell of a thing to say months before an election.
where did he get his medical degree?

Beastly Boy

(9,461 posts)
111. That's a very free-form of paraphrase.
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 12:16 PM
Feb 9

What Hur actually reported is this:

We have also considered that, at trial, Mr. Eiden would likely present himself to a jury, as he did during our interview of him, as a sympathetic, well-meaning, elderly man with a poor memory. Based on our direct interactions with and observations of him, he is someone for whom many jurors will want to identify reasonable doubt. It would be difficult to convince a jury that they should convict him-by then a former president well into his eighties-of a serious felony that requires a mental state of willfulness.


under the paragraph stating "there are other innocent explanations for the documents that we cannot refute."

A side note blown out of all proportions by the spinmeisters.

Jarqui

(10,130 posts)
134. Nonsense
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 12:55 PM
Feb 9

More quotes from the report:

"Mr. Biden's memory was significantly limited, both during his recorded interviews with the ghostwriter in 2017, and in his interview with our office in 2023."

"Mr. Biden's memory also appeared to have significant limitations-both at the
time he spoke to Zwonitzer in 2017, as evidenced by their recorded conversations, and
today, as evidenced by his recorded interview with our office. Mr. Biden's recorded
conversations with Zwonitzer from 2017 are often painfully slow, with Mr. Biden
struggling to remember events and straining at times to read and relay his own
notebook entries.
"

"In his interview with our office, Mr. Biden's memory was worse. He did not
remember when he was vice president, forgetting on the first day of the interview
when his term ended ("if it was 2013 - when did I stop being Vice President?" ) , and
forgetting on the second day of the interview when his term began ("in 2009, am I
still Vice President?" ) . He did not remember, even within several years, when his
son Beau died.
And his memory appeared hazy when describing the Afghanistan
debate that was once so important to him
. Among other things, he mistakenly said
he "had a real difference" of opinion with General Karl Eikenberry, when, in fact,
Eikenberry was an ally whom Mr. Biden cited approvingly in his Thanksgiving memo
to President Obama."

"Mr. Biden's apparent lapses and failures in February and April 2017 will likely appear consistent with the diminished faculties and faulty memory he showed in Zwonitzer's interview recordings and in our interview of him. "

"A former executive assistant to Mr. Biden confirmed that at times Mr. Biden
committed talking points to memory by writing them down, sometimes multiple
times."


This is over the top.

There is no crime unless the DoJ could prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Biden knowingly took these documents.

Demsrule86

(68,696 posts)
109. Hillary was exonerated too...but attacked in much the same way, and it cost us the election.
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 12:16 PM
Feb 9

Defend this biased shitty report if you want. I won't. I clearly see that is was a partisan hit job.

Beastly Boy

(9,461 posts)
121. Don't get me started on reasons Hillary lost the elections.
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 12:33 PM
Feb 9

More to the point, Hillary's exoneration came after the elections were over, and played no role in the bipartisan Hillary bashing that was going on prior to that.

hlthe2b

(102,383 posts)
136. Now I'm worried about your memory! You believe Comey's announcement on the email investigation
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 01:14 PM
Feb 9

had no impact? REALLY?

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/comey-announced-reopening-clinton-email-probe-days-election/story?id=54470601

James Comey’s acknowledgement that he may have subconsciously expected Hillary Clinton to win the presidency when he disclosed days before the 2016 election the reopening of a probe of her emails shows that the then-FBI chief was driven by political motivation and self-interest, a White House spokesperson said.

“The guy knew exactly what he was doing,” White House spokesperson Sarah Sanders told ABC News Chief Anchor George Stephanopoulos on “This Week” on Sunday. “He thought that Hillary Clinton would win, and he thought that this would give him some cover. He made these decisions based on the political landscape and not the facts of the case,” White House spokesperson Sarah Sanders told ABC News Chief Anchor George Stephanopoulos on “This Week” on Sunday.

Sanders was responding to a video excerpt from Comey's exclusive interview with Stephanopoulos that will air tonight at 10 p.m. ET.

In the excerpt aired on "This Week," Stephanopoulos asks Comey whether his choice to reveal that he was reopening the investigation into Clinton’s emails days before the election may have been influenced by his belief that Clinton would become president.

Comey, then the FBI director, sent a letter to Congress announcing the reopening of the email probe on Oct. 28, 2016, 11 days before the Nov. 8 election.

Celerity

(43,550 posts)
86. I disagree. Hardly a shock to either of us I am sure.
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 11:42 AM
Feb 9

I remained neutral on Garland for a very long time, but on balance, I am sad to say I now find him to be likely the worst of Biden's cabinet choices, with most of the others having been splendid ones.

His hiring of Trumper Hur was a dire mistake, for but one example.

kelly1mm

(4,735 posts)
89. Not bringing charges is not the same as exonerated. Hur found President Biden "willfully retained and disclosed
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 11:46 AM
Feb 9

classified materials,”

Does that sound like an exoneration to you?

kelly1mm

(4,735 posts)
155. With even that Hur couldn't help but twist the knife. Part of the rational
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 02:54 PM
Feb 9

for not bringing the charges was the difficulty a potential jury would have of convicting (in Hur's view) 'a well intentioned elderly man with memory issues'.

Basically the SC did not bring or recommend criminal charges which is good for sure. But they seem to have taken every opportunity to malign President Biden in so doing.

TwilightZone

(25,485 posts)
99. We're buying into the right-wing narrative on the report.
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 11:59 AM
Feb 9

We're focusing on exactly what they would want us to focus on - the pointless, personal, gratuitous nonsense that was added. We should be focusing on the big picture, but that's really not how we operate.

That being said, these things are not mutually exclusive. It's possible to both focus on the end result of the report - no charges and little evidence of anything - while still objecting to the seemingly political injection of irrelevant information into the report.

Ocelot II

(115,869 posts)
110. The report contained a gratuitous suggestion that Biden's memory is bad,
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 12:16 PM
Feb 9

furthering the narrative that he's too old and infirm. That, of course, is what everyone is pouncing on, when the facts that should be shouted to the rooftops is that he did nothing that warrants prosecution. My own opinion, for what it's worth, is to stop carrying on about the report except to point out that Biden - unlike Trump - has been exonerated for his handling of documents, and that retaining them was inadvertent and not deliberate. No search warrants or months of negotiations were needed to get the documents back. Biden didn't try to conceal them or claim he was entitled to keep them. Was Hur a holdover Trump loyalist who couldn't find a crime so he decided on an insult instead? Maybe, but so what? The important thing - the only important thing - is that the report found no crime. Period. The end. And bashing Garland certainly serves no purpose. All of this is a small tempest in a much larger teapot with much more serious tempests going on; Biden will continue to show the world that he's not senile and the report will be forgotten. But the more we jaw and whine about it, the longer that will take.

Beastly Boy

(9,461 posts)
114. A single paragraph in a 300+ page report.
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 12:21 PM
Feb 9

Under the paragraph that states "there are other innocent explanations for the documents that we cannot refute."

A single paragraph that changes not a single conclusion in the report. Blown out of all proportion to the essence of the report by the bipartisan chorus of Garland detractors.

Ocelot II

(115,869 posts)
115. Yup. If everybody would just keep repeating that *the report found no crime*
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 12:24 PM
Feb 9

maybe that's what would stick.

hlthe2b

(102,383 posts)
118. It isn't a mere "mention" sans consequences, Ocelet II. It was quite clearly intentional, leading to:
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 12:26 PM
Feb 9
GOP lawmaker calls on Cabinet to ‘explore’ removing Biden under 25th Amendment

https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/4457661-gop-lawmaker-calls-cabinet-explore-removing-biden-25th-amendment/

Rep. Claudia Tenney (R-N.Y.) called on members of the Biden administration to “explore” removing President Biden under the 25th Amendment after a special counsel cleared him of wrongdoing but painted him as an elderly man with a failing memory.

In a letter obtained by The Hill, Tenney wrote to Attorney General Merrick Garland on Thursday night to share her “grave concerns.”

“After concluding that President Biden knowingly and willfully removed, mishandled, and disclosed classified documents repeatedly over a period of decades, Mr. Hur nevertheless recommended that charges not be brought against him,” her letter said. “Special Counsel’s reasoning was alarming.”


The headline of every newspaper front page I've seen today reflects the "memory" meme--not one focused on the report's findings that failed to support charging Biden.

Ocelot II

(115,869 posts)
144. That's the point. They pounced on that single comment,
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 01:40 PM
Feb 9

which very well may have been deliberate and intended to harm Biden's credibility, since they couldn't find any evidence of a criminal act. But the House GOP tries to weaponize everything, and if it wasn't that it would be something else. What I'm saying is that all that shit needs to be ignored and keep pointing out that the report exonerated Biden. As Biden continues to do his job competently and disproves the claim by his actions - and as all the Trump trials and the mind-boggling incompetence of the House GOP keep grabbing the news - it will blow over. Obviously the 25th Amendment bullshit won't go anywhere; it's just more political theater like the fake impeachments.

sinkingfeeling

(51,474 posts)
113. I'll take Biden's position and move on. From Bigtree's post, without attribution.
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 12:20 PM
Feb 9

"And, as for "any extraneous commentary, they don't know what they're talking about. It has no place in this report."

"The bottom line is the matter is now closed, and we can continue what I've always focused on, my job of being President of the United States of America."

...as for calls to remove Garland, or discipline Hur, or do something to change the report... all of that is up to the person the report was directed at, and the president isn't running around with his hair on fire like some folks supposedly defending him with all sorts of nonsense this morning.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100218666724

Beastly Boy

(9,461 posts)
116. You (or rather Bigtree) put your finger on what gets me so pissed.
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 12:25 PM
Feb 9

I can see this essentially inconsequential dead horse of an issue beaten to a pulp for months on end. We've been through this before.

Demsrule86

(68,696 posts)
117. Garland can't do a damn thing at this point. This guy should never have been appointed.
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 12:25 PM
Feb 9

Garland made a huge mistake appointing MAGA Republicans. I suppose he expected fairness but that was never going to happen.

wryter2000

(46,082 posts)
130. Are you perplexed about the attacks against Hur?
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 12:49 PM
Feb 9

I'm not. They're richly deserved. He has neither the expertise nor any valid reason to discuss Biden's age as it relates to his memory. There wasn't any reason to mention Trump's case in this report, either.

Vinca

(50,311 posts)
135. I'm perplexed by your post. There was no reason to stray beyond the decision not to bring
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 01:05 PM
Feb 9

charges and give his neurological assessment of Biden's acuity or lack thereof. It was reminiscent of James Comey and we know what that led to.

oldmanlynn

(111 posts)
143. If there are no charges being brought the report should not
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 01:34 PM
Feb 9

Go on an add the special counsels opinion on why charges would not be accepted as “because Biden is to old and can’t remember”

This is a republican talking point.

Many people say they cant recall when asked things that happened years ago.

Attorneys will typically tell their clients to say you dont recall.

Beastly Boy

(9,461 posts)
190. On the contrary.
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 04:47 PM
Feb 9

It is of utmost importance to a prosecutor to anticipate every possibility, including the hypothetical jury's reaction to the hypothetical defendant's demeanor.

And just a reminder: this was the least among the far more serious considerations that prompted Hur not to press charges.

Happy Hoosier

(7,397 posts)
145. Hur is an unprofessional goober.
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 02:18 PM
Feb 9

It was his mandate to determine if Biden or his aides are likely to have committed a crime and if so, if the evidence supports a prosecution. THAT'S IT!

Hur's amateur medical diagnosis is FAR from his mandate. It's constitutes an attack on Biden that is entirely based on opinion, and can be asserted without any evidence whatsoever.

Not only am I not interested in his opinion of Biden, given his political inclination, but it ss grossly inappropriate to express those opinions when he is in no way an expert on the subject at hand. It was meant as a political swipe at Biden, and garland tolerated it. He shouldn;t have. He should have noted that it is not Hur's place to express such opinions. His only job was dtermine if a crime was likely committed and if so, if the evidence would support a probable convinction.

Hur knew that at the least the answer to second part was a resounding NO, but he didn't like that answer, so he decided to inflict what political damage he could.

Understand now!?

Happy Hoosier

(7,397 posts)
203. Then you would be wrong.
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 05:19 PM
Feb 9

"In addition. Mr. Biden's memory was significantly limited, both during his recorded interviews with the ghostwriter in 2017, and in his interview with our office in 2023. memory was significantly limited, both during his recorded interviews with the ghostwriter in 2017, and in his interview with our office in 2023. And his cooperation with our investigation, including by reporting to the government that the Afghanistan documents were in his Delaware garage, will likely convince some jurors that he made an innocent mistake, rather than acting willfully-that is, with intent to break the law-as the statute requires." p.9

The use of "memory was signficantly limited" is a deliberate and condescending use of words.... not too unlike you wrong assumptions about my position.

"We have also considered that, at trial, Mr. Biden would likely present himself to a jury, as he did during our interview of him, as a sympathetic, well-meaning, elderly man with a poor memory. Based would likely present himself to a jury, as he did during our interview of him, as a sympathetic, well-meaning, elderly man with a poor memory. Based on our direct interactions with and observations of him, he is someone for whom many jurors will want to identify reasonable doubt." p. 10

Again "elderly man with poor memeory" is condescending. Biden could easily argue that he was simply unaware that the documents were there, not that he is an "elderly man with poor memeory"

"In his interview with our office, Mr. Biden's memory was worse. He did not remember when he was vice president, forgetting on the first day of the interview when his term ended ("if it was 2013 - when did I stop being Vice President?&quot , memory was worse. He did not remember when he was vice president, forgetting on the first day of the interview when his term ended ("if it was 2013 - when did I stop being Vice President?&quot , and forgetting on the second day of the interview when his term began ("in 2009, am I still Vice President?&quot .839 He did not remember, even within several years, when his son Beau died.81rn And his memory appeared hazy when describing the Afghanistan debate that was once so important to him. Among other things, he mistakenly said he "had a real difference" of opinion with General Karl Eikenberry, when, in fact, Eikenberry was an ally whom Mr. Eiden cited approvingly in his Thanksgiving memo to President Obama."

Uh huh. So there ya go.

Unless, of course, you want to argue that Biden really does have a problem?

Beastly Boy

(9,461 posts)
215. None of tis is gratuitous, let alone deliberately malicious.
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 05:50 PM
Feb 9

It is a prosecutor's job to asses the accuracy of the testimony under consideration of a decision to press charges or not.

Probably distasteful (at least I think so) but arguably necessary to form an accurate assessment.

BTW, what were Hur's other, far more significant considerations in not pressing charges? There are over 300 pages in his report. Surely there is more to it than the three short paragraphs you cited.

senseandsensibility

(17,146 posts)
151. Glad you're happy with it
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 02:44 PM
Feb 9

Most people on this board disagree, but you gave your reasons and I read them carefully. I disagree that if Hillary was the SC and wrote the exact same report it would be positively received. That's naive. The corporate media loves to attack Biden and Clinton and would at the least present it as a Dem catfight. You are very protective of Garland and I don't think I've ever written a negative word about him. He was beyond reproach in how he handled this. For most of us, that act is getting old though. Follow the law? Sure. But this bending over backwards to appear fair in every way possible to appease a party that literally wants to end our democracy is not the way to handle an authoritarian movement. Allowing the double standard that requires only our morals to be exemplary is dangerous. So add me to the others who disagree with your post.

Beastly Boy

(9,461 posts)
185. I agree that Hillary would have been more diplomatic with her accounts of the investigation, but
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 04:33 PM
Feb 9

the thoroughness of the investigation and the detailed analysis of evidence leading to the identical conclusion would hardly differ.

niyad

(113,587 posts)
152. I am perplexed, troubled, and surprised at your surprise at the outrage
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 02:48 PM
Feb 9

people are expressing over hur's hatefilled, nasty, completely unprofessional, completely republican, hatchet job on President Biden, and your defense of him. Could you please point me to any other special report written in such a manner?

Beastly Boy

(9,461 posts)
183. Easy. Barr's conclusion on Mueller's report. Durham's report on Trump's Russia involvement.
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 04:29 PM
Feb 9

These were not mere accounts of personal observations related to the investigation, they were, in their entirety, documents insulting, if not undermining the rule of law itself.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,378 posts)
199. So you're saying the Hur report is as bad as Barr's spin on Mueller?
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 05:06 PM
Feb 9

The weight of argument in this thread has finally got you to change your conclusion?

Beastly Boy

(9,461 posts)
205. No, I am meeting a challenge.
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 05:27 PM
Feb 9

I am pointing to reports that resemble the description of "hatefilled, nasty, completely unprofessional, completely republican, hatchet job" far more closely than Hur's report ever will.

It is the weight of the interpretation you favor that creates the false perception of me changing my conclusion, a conclusion which is only being reinforced by the futility of the challenge I responded to.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,378 posts)
206. You didn't say anything about "far more closely"
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 05:31 PM
Feb 9

You were asked to point to a special report written in the manner of Hur's. You suggested Barr's spin.

KYBlue

(26 posts)
164. Political hit piece
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 03:21 PM
Feb 9

The special counsel's report sounded like it could have been written by someone from Fox News or Breitbart. It was a political hit piece against Biden and was released a year after it was supposed to be released, and was released during an election year to specifically help Trump and get him elected.
I think they should have stopped using special counsels, after what happened with Bill Clinton with Ken Starr, and Hillary who had multiple special counsels trying to ruin her good name, and ultimately helped Trump win the presidency

Beastly Boy

(9,461 posts)
181. Any references from the report about what you are talking about, or how they resemble Fox News or Breitbart?
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 04:19 PM
Feb 9

JustAnotherGen

(31,911 posts)
191. It's the spin
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 04:52 PM
Feb 9
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/nikki-haley-says-biden-lacks-the-mental-capacity-to-serve-as-president-after-hur-report/ar-BB1i3fIH

I do not want that evil woman anywhere near the White House. She's playing a good game of Pretend I didn't Kiss Trump's Ass to be the Ambassador. What you permit you promote.

She permitted Trump - she promoted him. . . she's just as rotten as him.

Beastly Boy

(9,461 posts)
197. My point exactly.
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 05:03 PM
Feb 9

There is the report, and then there is spin, and the two are worlds apart. I pay attention to the report, not the spin.

JustAnotherGen

(31,911 posts)
187. Hur's report lacked the professional decorum
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 04:39 PM
Feb 9

I would accept.

VP Harris, herself a fierce former prosecutor has spoken:

Vice President Kamala Harris on Friday defended President Joe Biden after the release of a special counsel report that questioned the president’s memory, calling the report “gratuitous, inaccurate and inappropriate.”

Speaking at a community violence prevention program at the Eisenhower Executive Office Building, Harris condemned Special Counsel Robert Hur’s claim that Biden's memory is “poor.” As a former prosecutor herself, Harris said, the special counsel should have had more “integrity.”

“The way that the presidents demeanor in that report was characterized could not be more wrong on the facts and clearly politically motivated,” Harris said in response to a question at the end of her remarks. “And so I will say that when it comes to the role and responsibility of a prosecutor in a situation like that, we should expect that there would be a higher level of integrity than what we saw.”



https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/gratuitous-harris-slams-hur-report-defends-biden/ar-BB1i3arc

I trust his former opponent's judgment. As well - I'm old enough to remember certain segments of America disqualifying her because of the excellence she showed in her Prosecutor Role.

Beastly Boy

(9,461 posts)
192. I happen to agree with Harris' retrospective judgement.
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 04:52 PM
Feb 9

However, lack of tact and professional decorum doesn't amount to professional malpractice, which is how many responses in this thread characterize Hur's (and for some reason Garland's) handling of the investigation.

dpibel

(2,854 posts)
219. Lack of integrity
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 05:58 PM
Feb 9

That's what Harris said.

If you think that's the same as "lack of tact and professional decorum," well, that makes me think that this is not a serious discussion you're carrying on.

But congrats on the big thread!

Beastly Boy

(9,461 posts)
198. Thank you. I will try my best.
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 05:06 PM
Feb 9

In the mean time, any comments that do not involve advice on what I should do about myself?

Beastly Boy

(9,461 posts)
207. Ok. How does any pattern create in me an obligation to get over myself?
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 05:32 PM
Feb 9

I am not as easily swayed by popular sentiment as you think I should be. Sorry to disappoint.

TheKentuckian

(25,029 posts)
196. No wrong doing due to being too old and out of it to
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 05:03 PM
Feb 9

be responsible is a hit job.

The commentary is out of scope and provided to damage Biden.

Beastly Boy

(9,461 posts)
200. That, if you read the report, is by far the least of the reasons why Hur didn't press charges.
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 05:10 PM
Feb 9

How it became the exclusive measure of judging Hur's (and, inexplicably, Garland's) competence, is way beyond me.

Sympthsical

(9,121 posts)
208. It was media catnip
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 05:36 PM
Feb 9

And Hur would have been fully aware that the lede would be buried under it. He used loaded language that was impossible to ignore. There is no universe operating under gravitational laws where the media don't pick that up and put it on the front page the next day.

I'm probably one of the more sedate DUers and tend to operate under the axiom, "Never apply to malice that which can be explained by incompetence." And if cable news is at an 11, I take that as holy dictum that I should be reacting at about a 3.

I've read the report. This isn't incompetence. This was willful. There is no way Hur did not know precisely how this would land.

Now, look, do you have a point that we're a largely reactive media culture where everything on tv is the WORST THING EVER until next week when we'll have forgotten about it because another WORST THING EVER has come along? Sure, absolutely. People need to shut cable news off for ten seconds. It's making this country worse. It's an incubation chamber for mania.

But this was pretty damn bad. I have no charitable explanation for both Hur's report and Garland's allowance of that language. President Biden's mental acuity is a very sore and vulnerable political spot - it's one of the Republicans' main lines of attack against him. And Hur delivered a haymaker straight at it.

Special counsels should at least pretend to aspire to be neutral. And most of the report was fine . . . right up until that point where it nakedly wasn't.

Gore1FL

(21,152 posts)
210. Based on their statements, Biden and Harris weren't pleased.
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 05:41 PM
Feb 9

I don't feel out-of-place joining them in their assessments.

Joinfortmill

(14,468 posts)
211. Respectfully, I've defended Merrick Garland
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 05:46 PM
Feb 9

many times, but this report is, at best, tinged by politics. I think Mr. Garland made an error when he appointed this particular prosecutor. I don't know how he addresses this or even if he can.

But. Kamala addressed it and she rocked. We are lucky to have both Joe and Kamala. VOTE.

Conjuay

(1,409 posts)
213. WWRD? (What would repugnantcans do?)
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 05:47 PM
Feb 9

If it was a Democrat saying Trump had the mental capacity of a dishrag, (which is actually TRUE, BTW) He would be doxxed, swatted, and all the rest of that bullshit - and not have a moments peace all the rest of his life.
Bob Hur should be out on his ass, or in the very least, facing some sort of Disciplinary Action.

Murky Garland should be out selling pencils in the street- preferably too close to the traffic. But because of some actual cases pending, we will have to put up with him in the interim.

Goodheart

(5,345 posts)
222. So, you're "perplexed" and "troubled" that some of us are upset about an ageist, unprofessional, unethical hit job?
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 06:04 PM
Feb 9

On our candidate?

Um, OK. I'll stash that indictment where it belongs.

GiqueCee

(642 posts)
226. When some of the most astute legal minds in the country...
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 06:16 PM
Feb 9

... express their strongly worded disagreement with, and disdain for, Mr. Hur's blatantly partisan personal attacks and insults, I, for one, am inclined to defer to their judgement. And many of them, like Hur, are registered Republicans. The remark about remembering the date of Beau's death cannot be defended or excused, and had zero relevance to the basic purpose of Hur's investigation. It was pure, unadulterated malice, and should never have allowed to see the light of day. The fact that it did says nothing good about Garland's judgement or character. He should never have let it happen. But then, he, too, is a Republican, and maybe just a bit too concerned about "appearing partisan". He doesn't seem to understand that his pretzel logic has made it obvious that he is, in fact, exceedingly partisan, in that he has repeatedly given undue deference to Trump's sideshow.
But then, that's just me.

LetMyPeopleVote

(145,619 posts)
232. 'Confidential' in name only: Merrick Garland's delicate decision to release the Hur report
Fri Feb 9, 2024, 09:29 PM
Feb 9

In theory, the attorney general could have kept the report secret. In practice, he had only one option. If AG Garland did not release the Hur report, it was going to be either leaked or disclosed by the GOP in a hearing which would give the report far greater exposure and coverage.



https://www.politico.com/news/2024/02/09/garland-decision-release-hur-report-00140806

The White House is livid over the Justice Department’s release of a special counsel report that painted a devastating portrait of Joe Biden. But Attorney General Merrick Garland’s decision to release it was a foregone conclusion — and anything short of publicizing the full report would have been worse.....

In practice, though, burying or censoring the report would have been untenable, former Justice Department leaders say.

They described a high-stakes calculus for both Garland and Hur informed by previous politically sensitive investigations: Special counsel reports have always been made public in recent years, and Garland would have been slammed by Republicans and the press if he tried to keep this one under wraps. Hur, meanwhile, clearly understood that political reality, so the harsh language he included was exactly what he expected the public to see.....

While the DOJ regulations used to appoint special counsels call for their final reports to be confidential and Hur labeled his as such, in recent years it has become customary for attorneys general — facing political pressure — to vow to release them publicly to the extent the law allows.

Despite the caterwauling from the White House this week, the conclusion of Hur’s probe was sure to draw a flurry of Freedom of Information Act requests and lawsuits from news organizations and Biden’s political foes. House Republicans could also have subpoenaed the report and related records. The letter Biden’s lawyers sent to Hur indicates transcripts exist of the prosecutor’s interviews with Biden, so the memory lapses Hur cited may have become public whether Hur had colorfully characterized them or not......

And while some Justice Department veterans said the buck stops with Garland, others argued that the attorney general had no choice but to release the report Hur delivered. Hur and his team likely would have understood that their words would become public, even though the report was labeled “confidential.”

“Mr. Hur’s report had to be released unedited lest the attorney general were to be accused of protecting President Biden,” Rossi said.

Even if the full report was not leaked, the report would had eventually come out when Comer or Gym Jordan subpoenaed Garland, Hur and the report itself. Disclosure of the full report would have been a bigger deal than releasing the report in full this far in advance of the general election.
Latest Discussions»General Discussion»I am perplexed, troubled,...