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But there was no question in Jungs mind that psychology had replaced theology. Indeed, he believed that twentieth-century man had devised a psychology precisely because theology no longer provided any explanation of the world or any comfort for the soul. Jung
― Vine Deloria Jr., C.G. Jung and the Sioux Traditions
I pretended to start to shovel the snow from my driveway. Within a minute, my sons came out and said, "Get inside you old fool!" Thus, sitting inside and watching them the wondows, my mind reverted back to some thoughts I had last night, while reading DU.
It was one OP/thread in particular, where there was a clear difference of opinion between members of two sides. Because I like and respect a number of people from both sides, it made interesting reading. I thought there were a number of valid points raised by each. My issue was the hostility some had with others' opinions, for that prevents a good conversation from progressing to higher ground.
At the same time, I recognized that maybe I owned the problem. I tend to prefer serious and respectful conversations, where the good people here do not insult others or their opinions. This is not to say that I have not at times obnoxious and snarky, as well as wrong numerous times during the now 20+ years I have participated here.
This reminded me of Deloria's last of 22 books, quoted above. As with Jung, I have respect for Deloria's insights on the human condition. How different people interpret the world around them in very different ways, with most thinking their perceptions are right. And that there is a right and wrong in virtually everything.
Reading the thread, I was wondering why no one mentioned the amygdala? Would that not have resulted in someone mentioning psychologist Daniel Goleman's book, "Emotional Intelligence: Why It Can Matter More Than IQ.," (1995) The amygdala is the part of the brain that causes the fight, flight, or freeze response in human beings. It goes way back, and in the natural world helped make sure our species survived.
Now, in what the prophet Bob Marley called the "concrete jungle," one can debate if that response system serves as functional a purpose as it did when we were on the savanna. Now add first television, and then the internet. The sub-species of humanity know as teenagers, for example, do not have full development of the part of the brain found in their foreheads, which has the potential to keep the species going.
More, we all grow up in different circumstances. We develop different talents. Young people today invest a great deal of time on the internet andor playing various games due to technologies that were not around when I was growing up. Some young people appear to be addicted to their electronic devices. So again, we are looking at brain chemistry.
If, for sake of discussion, we take the example of a girl less than 16 (as in the OP/thread noted), who is on the "metaverse." I had to ask my boys what that is. Now, there are significant differences between, say, a girl at 12 and 15. But let's say she is inhabiting the metaverse, and to avoid meanigless arguing, let's say in her mind's eye, she is attacked by a bear.
The attack is unexpected. Thus, the girl's amygdala will release the same chemicals as if it were a real bear. She will experience the fight, flight, or freeze response. There is no bear, making it distinct from those events where a real bear attacks someone. But the girld's brain will produce the same chemical reaction as it initially would if the bear was real. And it will not process it the same afterwards as an adult's brain would.
Even within the adult population, brains respond differently to "danger." Those with previous successful experience with threatening situations tend to process them by way of the prefrontal cortex. For example, I was outstanding when it came to crises in the mental health clinic and in community crisis response. I was on the phone talking with an attorney one afternoon, when a co-worker told me someone with a knife was in the building, saying he was going to kill the director of community services. Bring a knife, and I'll hold you down for the five minutes it takes law enforcement to get there. (I remember calling the lawyer back, and his asking, "You did what?"
I only had one fellow call the clinic to tell me he planned to shoot me when I walked to my vehicle that evening. Gracious! He kept saying, "I'm crazy!" This resulted in my bringing forth my inner- Liam Neeson and explaining that not only was I crazy, too, but that I had a very particular set of skills. (Note: I'm alive, and he is in state prison for trying to carbomb his wife and children.)
Having a gun -- especially pointed at me -- and "flee" kicked in. I wasn't that stupid. This may come as a surprise to many in the DU community. There are still marks on a wall in the county office building from when two freaks with a shotgun were holding workers hostage. Let law enforcement deal with that.
As I've noted, adult brains operate differently, depending upon a wide variety of things. So there are differences of opinion within something as large as the Democratic Party. We are not a flock of sheep like the republican party. We see how easily moral rabies has spread among the mono-party.
It's said that our diversity is our strength. But that isn't so, when we do not recognize and respect that others in the party gold very different views. We need to be aware that when the danger of darkness is the greatest -- and watching an hour of the news suggests we are there now -- individuals seek out their own kind. We need to move beyond the amygdala, and use our frontal cortex so that we do not become divided.
I'm tempted to go into a discuss of group rights, that Vine Deloria spoke of in his second-to-the-last book, "We Talk, You Listen." As he notes, group rights are mentioned in the Constitution, though it requires a very close reading of the great document. But this essay, in response to a message an old friend sent this morning, is too long already. If anyone has read this far, it is equal to climbing to the top of Mt. Everest.
pandr32
(11,625 posts)It made me laugh.
I am reading the rest of your post again to make sure I got it all.
Thank you.
H2O Man
(73,627 posts)the power has come back on -- quite a windy storm here -- I can read & respond here!
When I moved here, I enjoyed shoveling the driveway after a good storm. Soon, all of my children joined in the fun. I noticed my driveway got longer in the winter, and it continues to get longer every year.
pandr32
(11,625 posts)At least that's what you tell yourself while you shovel.
What gets me is how a city snow plow can come by and leave a fresh wall of snow at the entrance to your driveway after you got all that exercise and you have to dig through that too.
H2O Man
(73,627 posts)cachukis
(2,277 posts)The amygdala plays such a large role in the transactional mind. Transformation is an attack. Buddhists seek transformation, capitalists live for the transaction.
Capitalists rule in our world.
Intellectual heaven is lonely.
H2O Man
(73,627 posts)Thank you for that!
It can be a strange thing, being a human being. It seems more so in recent years.
cachukis
(2,277 posts)Pound, Yeats, Eliot and the like could really use language in an intellectual, philosophical way that I envy.
Had a chance in college to do so, but that ended.
Have friends of over fifty years who stayed at home, but our conversations became distanced. They didn't keep up the curiosity and settled into comfort zones.
This method of conversation cannot replace that repartee, but it is what we have. We talk to ourselves and share a moment of commiseration.
We are lucky to have introspection, like yours, to ponder.
Sleep well.
I have friends that go back over 50 years, too. Including some who live fairly close by. I see a few of them every so often, and discuss political/ social issues. Still others I only see at funerals. I'm most comfortable being a hermit these days, and live far enough in the sticks to do that. A couple of my friends have asked me if it doesn't get boring? I understand that some people would get bored here, but I really haven't ever been bored. Too many things to think about, too many books to read, too many documentaries to watch. And this phase of life allows me those opportunities.
cachukis
(2,277 posts)Maraya1969
(22,506 posts)with rude and hurtful words to express their disagreement. I have responded improperly in the past and I have had other people treat me like I was an idiot for something that I said. It is not necessary and does not make the person change or learn something any more than does responding in a courteous and kind manner.
I don't think most of these need to be reported. A short, "That sounded kind of rude" would suffice in most instances.
H2O Man
(73,627 posts)"Arrogant, pompous, vain, cruel, verbose, a show-off. I have been called all of these. Of course, I am." In being aware of these qualities, it is my job to try to rise above them. And that has included here on DU.
Another of my frequent errors in thinking is in thinking that what seems obvious to me, may not be so clear to others. As if they have the same genetics, childhood & youth, life experience, and formal & informal education that I have had. I own that error in thinking dairly often.
Thus, while it is sometimes tempting to say something, I hesitate to address people individually. And I recognize these are tense days. People tend to react, rather than respond. We should make a community effort to do better, as 2024 requires unity.
Saoirse9
(3,684 posts)Now I don't know the nature of the disagreements you witnessed here. But I will say this ~
Between now and the election in November, I officially have no complaints about the Biden administration. NOT ONE. Ever.
After Biden wins in November, I might occasionally have a minor gripe.
There is no complaint, and no excuse, for not supporting the Biden administration because the alternative will mean the end of this country. You and I Patrick will have to move to Ireland. Nice for you because it never snows. No more slipping on the ice. For me it will be insufferably cold though. As much as I adore all things Irish it will be hard for me to live in a cold place.
So whoever reads this, please support the Biden administration so I don't have to suffer in the cold. Thanks in advance!!
H2O Man
(73,627 posts)the republican party will nominate the defendant, despite his very likely being convicted in the DOJ's DC case. I do not think any person besides President Biden could beat him this year. There are some very strong up and coming Democrats now, for sure, but timing is important. None could beat Joe in the primaries this year. He will be our candidate. So I'm not concerned with how much, on a scale of one to ten, people might like him. It is essential that we support him, and crush the defendant and his party. That should be all of our focus right now.
Hermit-The-Prog
(33,467 posts)Warpy
(111,367 posts)That's the problem with climbing Everest, no snack bar at the top.
Hermit-The-Prog
(33,467 posts)H2O Man
(73,627 posts)I'm sorry ..... I ate your cookie. There were only two, and I wanted to save mine for later.
Actually, there should be some sort of reward for anyone who reads through my nonsense.
usonian
(9,909 posts)Try to control what you can control, influence people who are open-minded, and think and do good things.
I tell my daughter that I am a pacifist. A pacifist does not take sides in a war, only the side of people.
In recent times, though I am sure there were plenty of episodes in the past, war on civilians has become "normalized".
Think Dresden, Hiroshima and Nagasaki, other cities attacked in WWII, and it only got worse since then.
Two wrongs do not make a right. They only set up more wrongs.
Nothing will get better until people drop the idea of vengeance for grievance.
Sounds impossible, but it's a choice that each of us can make.
🪷
limbicnuminousity
(1,405 posts)There's a lot of grace in your words.
Regarding the amygdala -- and this may already be implicit in your wording -- I suspect the challenge is in fostering communication between the amygdala and the frontal cortex. "Moving beyond" the amygdala, if I'm reading your words correctly, does not mean "leaving it behind?"
malaise
(269,201 posts)Lovely read - climbed all the way