Anonymous are Criminals, according to the Far Right Wing! Lol!

[sabrina 1]

Last edited Tue Nov 20, 2012, 03:26 PM - Edit history (1)

Googling the reaction on the Far Right to Anonymous' letter is hilarious.

Regardless of what they did or did not do, just the claim from Anonymous that they stopped Karl Rove from stealing Ohio has driven Right Wingers out of their minds.

So where's the crime here or the 'threat to national security'?

1) Right Wingers say they are lying. So if they are lying, it's just a prank. Where is the threat to NS in lying about Karl Rove? Wouldn't that make HIM a threat to NS? Has there ever been a bigger liar than Rove?

2) It's possible they are reacting so viscerally because they secretly suspect it might be true. But wouldn't that make Anon eligible for a Medal of Honor, or in their case a Medal of Freedom?

We have given Medals of Honor to people far less deserving, eg Gen Sanchez! Saving Democracy from election fraud seems like a much more honorable reason to receive a Medal of Honor, or as pointed out in the comments by Stevenleser, a Medal of Freedom assuming Anon are civilians.

It's hilarious watching them try to defend Rove from the accusation of Election Fraud, while at the same time they are furious at him for the total failure of ORCA.

Very clever of Anonymous to force them into such an untenable situation regardless of whether it is true or not.

We know Rove is capable of stealing elections. Which is what makes Anonymous' claims believable. Maybe even to the Far Right which is why they are so angry?

Poor Karl, my heart goes out to him! Lol!


Has he denied it btw? Lol!

Nothing more successful than getting the Far Right all riled up and on the defensive over charges of Election Fraud.

22 votes, 0 passes | Time left: Unlimited
	I believe Anonymous stopped Rove from stealing Ohio!
	11 (50%)
	No, I do not believe them!
	5 (23%)
	I don't care whether they did or not, but it's fun watching the reaction from the Far Right!
	6 (27%)
	0 DU members did not wish to select any of the options provided.
Show usernames Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll

[Ohio Joe]

1. No option for 'Techno-babble does not fool me'?

With over 25 years programming experience, I am not going to sign on to stupid.

[sabrina 1]

3. Call it playing chess then.

They certainly got everyone talking about Rove and Election Fraud.

His Baghdad Bob moment on Fox did help with the perception even before Anonymous's claims, true or false.

[Ohio Joe]

5. False

He had nothing... Zero... Zip to do with ORCA, His melt down is very rationally explained by the repugs getting their ass kicked. A fantasy based on bullshit makes anyone buying into it look stupid... True or false?

[sabrina 1]

7. No, his meltdown is not explained by Republicans getting their asses kicked.

They've had their asses kicked before without him reacting the way he did on election night. Even his Fox buddies were surprised by his reaction. We are all entitled to our opinions and way before Anon's claims, a whole lot of people viewed his reaction as very strange with many assuming he was expecting a different result regardless of the actual numbers.

[Ohio Joe]

9. You are entitled to your opinion... The facts do not change however...

rove had a melt down on faux, who was forced to come in line and admit defeat... The repugs biggest defender on their biggest TV outlet melts down at this... A shocking surprise he would defend them to the bitter end... or not.

And the evidence what Anonymous claims?

oh... Nothing... And a bunch of techno-babble that makes no sense... Very believeable... or not.

True or false?

[RobertEarl]

12. Techno babble? Or cyber-crime?

Do you believe in cyber-crime?

E-vote theft is cyber-crime.

[Ohio Joe]

18. And that explains the non-sense put out by Anonymous... How?

I do not deny cyber-crime but... Explain how the non-sense put out could happen... In our reality.

[RobertEarl]

30. It was just cyber-crime type stuff.

Rove set out to steal and Anonymous stopped him. Duh! Happens everyday in cyber-space.

Look, Obama won the election. Just like Kerry did in 2004. Only this time.....

[sabrina 1]

17. Well, I really don't care if it was true or not. But it was a great way

to remind people that Rove and far right operatives are criminals and that they have stolen elections. Too bad if THIS time they are innocent, although the word 'innocent' and 'Rove' do not go well together.

I like seeing the reaction, the total outrage, that they would even think of stealing an election!

Flushing them out is always a good thing imho.

[Ohio Joe]

21. Yay! Lets create a false reality

Do facts not matter anymore?

[randome]

25. No.

This kind of stuff belongs in the Creative Speculation forum. It's past its shelf life.

[Ohio Joe]

31. Agreed

A shame the Hosts do not agree.

[sabrina 1]

45. Well, why don't you alert. I know you don't like anything

or any organization that is for the people v corporations for some reason. Which is your right I suppose.

I consider most of what you post here to be very creative speculation btw.

I'm sure any post supporting OWS, Anonymous, Wikileaks, or any other left wing 'people v corporate takeover of our government' will always be alerted on in the new DU. The old DU, before most Progressive Dems left, was very different.

Don't worry, soon you will have it all to yourselves. The Social Media provides a much greater opportunity for real discussion among Progressives without the constant attempts to silence them that forums like this are full of sadly.

Interesting how disturbing all this is to you, yet you are in every thread, once again, claiming it's all so 'not interesting'.

Very interesting.

[sabrina 1]

33. What false reality? Rove has stolen elections. Are you saying

he's just a poor innocent who would never do such a thing?

And Anon HAS outed a whole lot of people and proved it.

So we have a crook who has helped to steal two elections AND a group that have actually exposed some very nefarious behavior. To reach the conclusion that it is possible that 1) Rove tried to do it again and 2) Anon did it again is not beyond the realm of possibility at all.

How about Rove, poor innocent guy, proves Anon wrong?

[Ohio Joe]

36. oh... I saw something else so this must be true...

What does it not being possible have to do with it... Fuckin-A

[sabrina 1]

46. But you didn't answer the question. You have provided nothing but speculation

because you cannot prove it didn't happen, making your opinion as worthless as everyone else's. But one fact remains, Rove is a criminal who has participated in the theft of elections and Anon has revealed some pretty damaging information about some shady characters.

Why do you care of Rove is accused of something we know he did anyhow?

[Ohio Joe]

51. I care about facts

Let us accuse someone of a different crime then one we cannot prove... It is all good. Facts matter.

I can not condone bullshit in the name of justice.

"because you cannot prove it didn't happen"

One can not prove a negative. Evidence is required. Give me more them techno-babblle that makes no sense... Give me what you need for your claim to be true.

Is that to much to ask?

[sabrina 1]

57. Do you think that the 2000 and the 2004 elections were stolen?

[Ohio Joe]

60. What does that have to do with this fantasy?

Anon did not stop a phone app from stealing the election with a firewall... Please face reality.

[sabrina 1]

75. Who cares if it's a fantasy? It has created a huge reaction though from a lot of people making me

wonder why? It was fun poking at Rove, surprised you failed to see the humor in dragging Rove's criminal past into the spotlight re election fraud in such a creative way?

Why do you care about Rove being mocked and accused of what he actually has done in the past but got away with?

Call it Karma. If he got away with election fraud in the past, and let's say for the sake of argument, he was innocent this time, (Lol!) then it would appear that Karma actually works. And it's even more fun watching Right Wingers who for the first time no longer view him as 'God', now having to defend him anyhow.

It's all great fun. Too bad you don't see it that way.

[Coyotl]

71. Actually, your presumption is your logical downfall

You presume that this has anything whatsoever to do with the REAL Anon is based on what evidence?

This is a "complete fraud" from beginning to end, albeit built around facts like past election history.

Yes, there was an election in 2004. Yes, there is an Anonymous. Yes, any smuck can make a bad video tape impersonating Anon. Those are the real facts of the case. Oh, and Obama beat the crap out of Romney without the help of cyber crimes.

Please stop feeding into the meme that Obama won because someone committed a crime and hacked the Republican computers. Trust me, the details won't matter in a week, after you successfully entrench the meme.

[sabrina 1]

73. Actually my position has been that I don't know or care whether they are telliing the truth

or not. Anything that shines a spotlight on Rove and his crimes is fine with me. If you had read my posts, you would have known that.

But now, like so many others, the huge reaction to even mentioning this, what was really just a fun side show, has caused me to wonder 'why'? Why the intense push back and energy going into trying to shut down any conversation about it all? And now that I see Kos on the job, I am doubly interested, way more than I was initially, as to why this is such a big deal?

[Pbs1914]

81. +1

[Fawke Em]

66. The Republicans have been creating false realities for years now.

From Wiki:

The aide said that guys like me were "in what we call the reality-based community," which he defined as people who "believe that solutions emerge from your judicious study of discernible reality." I nodded and murmured something about enlightenment principles and empiricism. He cut me off. "That's not the way the world really works anymore." He continued "We're an empire now, and when we act, we create our own reality. And while you're studying that reality—judiciously, as you will—we'll act again, creating other new realities, which you can study too, and that's how things will sort out. We're history's actors ... and you, all of you, will be left to just study what we do."

Suskind, Ron (2004-10-17). Faith, Certainty and the Presidency of George W. Bush. The New York Times Magazine.
Danner, Mark (2007). "Words in a Time of War: On Rhetoric, Truth and Power". in András Szántó. What Orwell Didn't Know: Propaganda and the New Face of American Politics (First edition ed.). Philadelphia, PA: PublicAffairs Reports. pp. 17. "... the unnamed official speaking to Suskind is widely known to be none other than the self-same architect of the aircraft-carrier moment, Karl Rove ..."

[madokie]

15. Personally I think you are wrong as wrong can be

My question is why are you so adamant in denying this when you have no earthly idea if they did or didn't. Other than what you think. Which begs the question of just how do you know what you think you know that you're trying so hard to push on us

[randome]

28. Um, do YOU have an 'earthly idea' that they did or didn't?

Do you know something the rest of us do not? Because no one has seen any evidence. None.

[whatchamacallit]

39. Good thing you're an atheist

[madokie]

63. Yep no evidence either way

except for the statement that is contributed to Anonymous of which I find to be a more truthful story than not. A lot more credible than someone here, you and the others, have to say concerning this.
You believe what you want and if you want me to believe it you will have to show me some verifiable evidence. I read the report that anonymous gave and it sounds more plausible than what you're saying.
Nothing personal on my part.

[Ohio Joe]

29. But I do know

"My question is why are you so adamant in denying this when you have no earthly idea if they did or didn't."

But I do know... Stringing tech words together that do not make sense tells me it is bullshit... Claiming rove is behind it when he had nothing to do with it tells me it is bullshit... Trying to convince me a phone app is somehow changing the vote and that a firewall blocked it tells me it is bullshit... Saying you implemented a magical firewall and yet were neither able to get a copy of the app nor able to release said app tells me it is bullshit.

It is bullshit.

Why are you trying so hard to make me believe bullshit?

[sabrina 1]

47. That's what I'm wondering too.

Working very hard at it also. Why take it so seriously too? I would think most Democrats would get a kick out of seeing Rove squirm after all these years and still not under arrest.

[Coyotl]

72. Fantasy based on bullshit makes EVERYONE on the forum buying into it look stupid... True or false?

Not to mention there is that little problem of the stupid part. Might there not be some motive to fix STUPID where one can?

[madokie]

84. Sorry but you're not proven any thing except that you think you know it all

I mean really what proof do you have to back up what you're saying.

Zilch,

Because you say so is not proof in my world

[Coyotl]

87. I mean really what proof do they have to back up what they're saying. Zilch.

Because they say so is not proof in my world.

Sorry but you're not proven any thing just like them

[madokie]

89. You see the deal is you are to provide proof not one of us

You're the one who is calling bs so where is your proof of their bs. I know where it isn't, you don't have any.

Why don't you give this a rest until you have some proof.

[whatchamacallit]

40. What part of your "25 years of programming experience" has you

denying the possibility of a cybercrime?

[Ohio Joe]

41. I do not deny cyber crime... Never said that....

I deny stupid... I deny techno-babble put together to fool those that do no know.

[whatchamacallit]

42. What part of "25 years of programming experience" trained you to deny stupid?

lol.

[Ohio Joe]

43. My first class... Computer Logic

I was taught how to understand how the machine works. Impossible things can not happen.

[sabrina 1]

49. And I have a friend who is also an expert on Computers and he disagrees

with you. He says it's possible. So I guess all we can say is you are entitled to your expert opinion, and he is entitled to his expert opinion. It's kind of like a Criminal Trial when both sides bring in their experts. And amazingly both sets of experts totally contradict each other.

[Ohio Joe]

54. Please... Have him tell us how a phone app cheats votes...

And how someone who had nothing to do with that app made it so nobody who got the app could keep a copy... And how a "firewall" blocked that appp... And how... FFS, this is stupid.

[sabrina 1]

56. What do you know about how it was set up? Have you seen the code?

You have no more of a clue what was in that program than we do.

[Ohio Joe]

58. So... Nothing...

Yes, yes, could be... Can't telll you how but... yes...

Bullshit.

[sabrina 1]

86. So you don't know.

Okay ....

[phleshdef]

80. Yea, it is stupid. Its so stupid, its hard to articulate WHY its so stupid.

This might be the most frustrating phenomena I've witnessed on DU.

[phleshdef]

79. If your friend thinks ORCA has any connection to vote tabulation systems, then he is no expert.

ORCA was a voter strike list database put together by the Romney campaign. They compiled the list of names and emailed a 60 page pile of bullshit to their volunteers. This in no way has any connection whatsoever to voter tabulation systems, at all, period.

[sabrina 1]

82. That's what they told us!

[phleshdef]

83. And thats what it was. The damn PDFs were mailed out. The website that hosted the data existed.

This is all verifiable, unlike the bullshit letter allegedly from Anonymous.

[sabrina 1]

85. You're right, I sooo trust Karl Rove and his minions!

[phleshdef]

88. Stop it with the damn strawman arguments. No one said that and you know it.

But theres nothing wrong with calling an apple an apple and an orange an orange. Its better for us to stick with facts and solid evidence and stay away from nonsense like this. It gives us more credibility when something really DOES happen.

[Coyotl]

68. Good to see how easily people are fooled

on the right too

And I thought it was only 2/3rds of DUers going bonkers over some unidentified smuck posting some inauthentic idiocy online.

[randome]

69. I don't think it's that many.

DU has, what, 100,000 members? Most of them don't post, they peruse. And I have 'faith' (as much as I dislike using that word) that most of them would want to see evidence before jumping on one side over another.

[phleshdef]

78. I've been basically saying what you just said for 2 days now, to no avail.

I've got 15 years experience myself but that doesn't seem to hold any sway with people who would rather believe some schmuck in a Guy Fawkes mask posting unverifiable, meritless, strung together techno-jargon on the Internet. Its really, really, really sad. We are suppose to be the group that holds science, evidence and facts above all else, but that claim is looking really fragile when it comes to this Anonymous thing (and for the record, I'm pretty sure whoever wrote that letter isn't even an authentic Anonymous hacker).

Theres a bubble on the liberal side too and we are not getting through it.

[On the Road]

2. If 4Chan Actually Hacked into ORCA

then they should be able to produce some proof of its sinister intentions, at least if the hackers are any good. If it was just a denial of service attack (as they have done on other occasions), then their knowledge of Rove's plans is hearsay.

If that is the case, their actions would at the very least seem to fall into the category of election-day dirty tricks. If someone brought down Democratic election-day software, I would certainly have a problem with it.

[sabrina 1]

4. Well, Rove has the option of addressing the issue.

He's never been beyond wrongfully accusing people of things they did not do, so I'm not shedding any tears for him.

He has the option of proving ORCA was what he said it was also. He sure forced a lot of people to have to defend themselves against his nasty lies. I don't think it's a lot to ask him now to prove he has nothing to hide.

[On the Road]

93. It's Not About Sympathy for Rove

It's about a self-confessed attempt to take down one party's election-day efforts. With what appears to be no basis other than rumor.

And more importantly for this community, it's about widespread support on DU for an illegal effort that might have changed the election if it's really what they say it is. Based on nothing but suspicion.

[OhZone]

37. OHMY! I don't think 4chan is 100% equivalent to anon!

I guess some of the anon group (and others) occasionally post there. I guess a lot of people from different walks of life visit that site for porn, various discussions (including some very innocent ones like cute animals), trolling and the like. But it's just an image posting site not a hacking group itself. Oh well.

BTW: I heard ebaums did it.

[On the Road]

91. You May be Right

I've always heard that Anonymous was a subset of 4Chan posters, but I guess they should not be used synonymously.

[Fumesucker]

6. An opinion shared by some on DU..

Surprisingly enough.

Or not.

[sabrina 1]

13. Yes, well, there are always a few!

[ProSense]

16. You mean the people who kept

insisting to me that Anonymous couldn't reveal the evidence because they obtained it "illegally"?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021842950

[randome]

20. A 'maybe' to support a 'possibly' to support a 'could be'.

Nothin' there. It's time to move on and win some more elections, not engage in this childish wish fulfillment.

[sabrina 1]

24. Are you saying they didn't obtain it illegally, assuming they did what they

said? Of course it would be illegal. Most whistle blowers get their info illegally but if it exposes crimes they are supposed to be protected. SUPPOSED to be are the operative words.

We know the fate of whistle blowers in this country so I would definitely not encourage them to present any evidence if they have it.

[randome]

32. If they can send an anonymous email, they can send a printout of the code they found.

But they didn't because nothing happened on election night except Democrats kicked some ass.

[sabrina 1]

44. Has Karl Rove sent out any statement contradicting them? How about

he reveal the code himself and put this all to rest?

[Fumesucker]

26. Eh, I'm an agnostic atheist on that..

I don't think it's possible to know and I don't believe either way.

But I do enjoy watching the issue smoke out the authoritarians on DU, they really can't help themselves from bashing Anonymous, just like Occupy.

[randome]

27. Who's bashing? There is no evidence. None. It's wish fulfillment.

[Fumesucker]

34. That's what I said..

And that's why I'm an agostic atheist on the issue.

But the reaction from some here makes it clear they can't abide Anonymous or Occupy, I enjoy watching them get steamed about it.

Oddly enough it's almost always people I find myself in conflict with here on DU about other stuff that also exhibit the negative reaction to Anonymous and Occupy.

[sabrina 1]

50. True. I wonder why all these left leaning organizations bother some

people so much? Especially since most of them are on our side?

[longship]

8. I prayed to the liberal gods.

That's why Obama won!

Bullshista!!!

Obama won because he has the better program; he has an idea that the opponents haven't yet figured out. Graham and McCain haven't a clue. It is their Waterloo. Buh-bye.

[madokie]

23. No one is saying that he won not because of the reasons you gave

whats being said is that rove and company were stopped from stealing this election. Big difference

[longship]

62. Rubbish! The only people who say Rove can steal elections...

are those who think space aliens are probing their...

This conspiracy theory of Rove being this omnipotent, omniscient entity is rubbish.

He's merely an asshole idiot.

Other than some "anonymous" stupid Internet idiot saying he stopped Rove from blowing up the universe, what other evidence do you have?

None?

That's just what I thought.

[mick063]

10. I don't believe in Big Foot

and I don't believe a hacker group infiltrated the GOP on election night.

[sabrina 1]

11. I'm not sure they wanted people to believe it. But it sure psyched out

the Far Right. Guilty consciences do often react that way.

[randome]

14. Who says they're psyched out? You?

[sabrina 1]

19. All you have to do is look around. It's been the most fun

watching it all. I have a feeling that is all they wanted. Not that I doubt their abilities if they were needed. Just ask HB Gary eg.

[randome]

22. Yes, well, you go on and believe that.

Whenever Democracy is in trouble, we can safely assume that Anonymous will swoop from the skies and save us all! So that means you really don't have to do anything from now on.

[sabrina 1]

55. Well, they have put a dent in the 'evil doers' a number of times. Surely

you remember that? Since they exposed those crimes, as they have been called by some members of Congress, and exposed that it was NO CONSPIRACY THEORY when we suspected there was a smear campaign going on regarding left leaning Writers like Glenn Greenwald, I look at those now who go after some of the people named in that exposure, like Greenwald, in a whole different light. Iow, who might they working for?

So thank YOU Anonymous for proving us to have right. It wasn't the first nor will it be the last time people have accused the Left of being CT only to have been proven wrong. We were right, and they proved it for us.

How come you don't share the thrill the left felt when Anonymous proved them right about those smear campaigns etc.? What a great moment of victory that was. One of several so far.

[gollygee]

35. I don't believe anonymous did anything

but write a hilarious letter and send the Republicans into another tantrum. Which is valuable in and of itself.

[xfundy]

38. I saw no gnashing of teeth on FreeRepigs

None.

If those turds can see how easy it is to hack an election, especially one not in their favor, they might stand up against the voting machines and get the nation back to free and fair elections.

Those calling it CT are missing the value of CT.

[flvegan]

48. I take my usual stance: If Anonymous is/are criminals, then charge them.

And do it right, lest you get shown up in court. Laughably, I might add.

Otherwise...

Shut the fuck up.

[sabrina 1]

52. Well, remember the last guy who tried to expose them and get them

arrested? Lol, they took him OUT and his company and revealed all their secrets, even ones they had no idea were there. Like revealing the fact that it was not a CT to think there were groups going around smearing writers, like Glenn Greenwald eg (who was on the list of 'left' writers to smear, making me always very wary of people do that now btw).

So I think that taught any Right Winger who might have dreamed of exposing Anonymous, that it might not be a great idea.

That was the most fun we had in a long, long time and proved that Anonymous is not fooling around! Poor HB Gary!

[nadinbrzezinski]

53. I have been beyond entertained by people here

You telling me I need to broaden my horizons?

[sabrina 1]

59. It's all been great fun that's for sure. I also remember when some of the

same people did not believe that Anon could hack into HB Gary's system and reveal all of their secrets AFTER they boasted about what experts they were also!

That was a spectacular take down of an obnoxious know-it-all who was willing to turn in people just for the money. He too thought Anon were all talk!

[greyl]

61. "I really don't care if it was true or not." - sabrina 1

.

[zappaman]

64. All these threads prove that RWers aren't the only ones who will embrace any CT

that pumps up their own partisanship.

[sabrina 1]

77. All these threads have revealed something else.

I wonder why something that was merely a fun sideshow, has so many people so 'concerned'?

And Rove could prove his innocence by revealing the code himself. I think that should our next demand.

It's all so much fun I am surprised to see that so many people missed the whole point and feel the need to defend poor, sad, Karl Rove. I'm willing to go with any flow that highlights his past criminality regarding our elections. The Rule of Law didn't get him, so whatever highlights his treasonous behavior is okay with me.

Kudos to Anon for making him the focus of election fraud. Doesn't matter if they are serious or playing with his head.

[Ganja Ninja]

65. I believe it's possible they stopped him but without proof who knows.

[Coyotl]

67. Congratulations. You proved one thing for sure

At least 1/3 of the DUers polled are wrong, likelier 2/3rds.

[stevenleser]

70. Agree with everything you said except about the Medal of Honor, which is only for military. Civilian

equivalent is the Medal of Freedom. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidential_Medal_of_Freedom

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congressional_medal_of_honor

[sabrina 1]

74. Thanks, I will edit it.

[polichick]

76. Yeah, they're criminals for keeping right-wing criminals from...

...carrying out business as usual. How perverted!

[Hugin]

90. "Ham Head" has really raised a storm of poop.

He richly deserves every lick.

[sabrina 1]

92. That's how I feel about him. But some people surprisingly seem very upset

with Anon for drawing attention to his past efforts to steal elections.