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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsFrank Sinatra's views on organized religion - 1963 Playboy Interview
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Playboy: All right, lets start with the most basic question there is: Are you a religious man? Do you believe in God?
Sinatra: Well, thatll do for openers. I think I can sum up my religious feelings in a couple of paragraphs. First: I believe in you and me. Im like Albert Schweitzer and Bertrand Russell and Albert Einstein in that I have a respect for lifein any form. I believe in nature, in the birds, the sea, the sky, in everything I can see or that there is real evidence for. If these things are what you mean by God, then I believe in God. But I dont believe in a personal God to whom I look for comfort or for a natural on the next roll of the dice. Im not unmindful of mans seeming need for faith; Im for anything that gets you through the night, be it prayer, tranquilizers or a bottle of Jack Daniels. But to me religion is a deeply personal thing in which man and God go it alone together, without the witch doctor in the middle. The witch doctor tries to convince us that we have to ask God for help, to spell out to him what we need, even to bribe him with prayer or cash on the line. Well, I believe that God knows what each of us wants and needs. Its not necessary for us to make it to church on Sunday to reach Him. You can find Him anyplace. And if that sounds heretical, my source is pretty good: Matthew, Five to Seven, The Sermon on the Mount.
Playboy: You havent found any answers for yourself in organized religion?
Sinatra: There are things about organized religion which I resent. Christ is revered as the Prince of Peace, but more blood has been shed in His name than any other figure in history. You show me one step forward in the name of religion and Ill show you a hundred retrogressions. Remember, they were men of God who destroyed the educational treasures at Alexandria, who perpetrated the Inquisition in Spain, who burned the witches at Salem. Over 25,000 organized religions flourish on this planet, but the followers of each think all the others are miserably misguided and probably evil as well. In India they worship white cows, monkeys and a dip in the Ganges. The Moslems accept slavery and prepare for Allah, who promises wine and revirginated women. And witch doctors arent just in Africa. If you look in the L.A. papers of a Sunday morning, youll see the local variety advertising their wares like suits with two pairs of pants.
Playboy: Hasnt religious faith just as often served as a civilizing influence?
Sinatra: Remember that leering, cursing lynch mob in Little Rock reviling a meek, innocent little 12-year-old Negro girl as she tried to enroll in public school? Werent they or most of them devout churchgoers? I detest the two-faced who pretend liberality but are practiced bigots in their own mean little spheres. I didnt tell my daughter whom to marry, but Id have broken her back if she had had big eyes for a bigot. As I see it, man is a product of his conditioning, and the social forces which mold his morality and conduct including racial prejudice are influenced more by material things like food and economic necessities than by the fear and awe and bigotry generated by the high priests of commercialized superstition. Now dont get me wrong. Im for decencyperiod. Im for anything and everything that bodes love and consideration for my fellow man. But when lip service to some mysterious deity permits bestiality on Wednesday and absolution on Sundaycash me out.
Playboy: But arent such spiritual hypocrites in a minority? Arent most Americans fairly consistent in their conduct within the precepts of religious doctrine?
Sinatra: Ive got no quarrel with men of decency at any level. But I cant believe that decency stems only from religion. And I cant help wondering how many public figures make avowals of religious faith to maintain an aura of respectability. Our civilization, such as it is, was shaped by religion, and the men who aspire to public office anyplace in the free world must make obeisance to God or risk immediate opprobrium. Our press accurately reflects the religious nature of our society, but youll notice that it also carries the articles and advertisements of astrology and hokey Elmer Gantry revivalists. We in America pride ourselves on freedom of the press, but every day I see, and so do you, this kind of dishonesty and distortion not only in this area but in reportingabout guys like me, for instance, which is of minor importance except to me; but also in reporting world news. How can a free people make decisions without facts? If the press reports world news as they report about me, were in trouble.
Playboy: Are you saying that
Sinatra: No, wait, let me finish. Have you thought of the chance Im taking by speaking out this way? Can you imagine the deluge of crank letters, curses, threats and obscenities Ill receive after these remarks gain general circulation?Worse, the boycott of my records, my films, maybe a picket line at my opening at the Sands. Why? Because Ive dared to say that love and decency are not necessarily concomitants of religious fervor.
Playboy: If you think youre stepping over the line, offending your public or perhaps risking economic suicide, shall we cut this off now, erase the tape and start over along more antiseptic lines?
Sinatra: No, lets let it run. Ive thought this way for years, ached to say these things. Whom have I harmed by what Ive said? What moral defection have I suggested? No, I dont want to chicken out now. Come on, pal, the clocks running.
...
https://warewhulf.files.wordpress.com/2014/09/playboy-interview-frank-sinatra1.pdf
If I align spiritually with anyone, it's this guy...
Orangepeel
(13,933 posts)Nittersing
(6,378 posts)I figured out the meaning of obeisance via context.
Had to look up opprobrium..
Walleye
(31,067 posts)onetexan
(13,066 posts)Sinatra was a smart man.
Texin
(2,599 posts)opinion about a thorny subject.
spooky3
(34,484 posts)Very smartthey would have had that in common.
Im sure the interviewer gave him questions in advance so that he could prepare, but its still a very thoughtful and (given the conditions in the country in 1963) courageous thing to say.
Irish_Dem
(47,482 posts)With a high degree of inner morality.
Who knew?
Abolishinist
(1,316 posts)Stevens Institute of Technology?
https://www.nytimes.com/1985/05/23/nyregion/our-towns-frank-sinatra-doctor-of-engineering.html
Orangepeel
(13,933 posts)He probably got several over the years. I'm still surprised and impressed at the depth of the answers in that interview.
ificandream
(9,399 posts)I love this:
innocent little 12-year-old Negro girl as she tried to enroll in public school? Werent they
or most of themdevout churchgoers? I detest the two-faced who pretend liberality but
are practiced bigots in their own mean little spheres. I didnt tell my daughter whom to
marry, but Id have broken her back if she had had big eyes for a bigot. As I see it, man is
a product of his conditioning, and the social forces which mold his morality and conduct
including racial prejudiceare influenced more by material things like food and
economic necessities than by the fear and awe and bigotry generated by the high priests of
commercialized superstition.
Now dont get me wrong. Im for decencyperiod. Im for anything and everything that
bodes love and consideration for my fellow man. But when lip service to some
mysterious deity permits bestiality on Wednesday and absolution on Sundaycash me
out.
For all the faults we heard about from authors like Kitty Kelley, he did an awful lot to help others. This interview is a reminder of that.
peppertree
(21,677 posts)Silent Type
(3,003 posts)Axelrods_Typewriter
(297 posts)Just a selection: https://www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-41426419
I like to say Hugh Hefner was a genius - he got stupid teenage boys to fund a literary journal.
PatrickforB
(14,593 posts)context of some pretty horrible sexual exploitation, especially in things like 'pig night' at the Playboy Mansion. We watched a documentary about this, and I was pretty appalled.
Apparently, this interview did not really hurt Sinatra, his penis did. He had a scandalous affair that ended his marriage with Nancy, then his records stopped selling as much, he couldn't get really good movie roles and he had a vocal chord problem that hurt his singing.
But yeah, let's not go overboard in praising Playboy for 'intellectual articles.'
Walleye
(31,067 posts)lastlib
(23,311 posts)....is the hijacking of morality by religion." --Arthur C. Clarke. I don't need a sky-daddy to make me value life, or to respect my fellow human beings who have as much right to the fruits of this world as I do.
Sky Jewels
(7,154 posts)figured out that they need to cooperate and share in groups in order to survive and thrive. That's the undoubtedly the true origin of Do Unto Others... To me, that's all anyone needs. Keep it simple. If we all just stuck to that as humans, our history as a species would have been infinitely better for all. But many people insist on bringing their human-created supernatural fantasies and mythologies into the mix (mostly as a way for a relatively few poohbahs to procure and maintain power and money and control over the masses, especially over women). They have been a cancer on the planet.
twodogsbarking
(9,834 posts)Fla Dem
(23,768 posts)pandr32
(11,625 posts)I am impressed.
mountain grammy
(26,656 posts)but he broke my mom's heart (and mine) when he switched his support to the Republican party. That said, I'm sure he would have supported Obama.
twodogsbarking
(9,834 posts)mountain grammy
(26,656 posts)The beginning of the end.
twodogsbarking
(9,834 posts)patphil
(6,225 posts)One thing people have never been able to understand is the difference between religion and spirituality.
Spirituality is God's love flowing down to the Earth and Humanity, while Religion is Humanities interpretation of their relationship to God.
The latter is created by people, and is not necessarily based on truth; in fact truth often gets lost over the centuries as more people revise the original religious ideals to suit their needs.
Spirituality is based on God's love, and is independent of religion. Anyone who opens themselves up to it can feel the difference.
Spirituality allows you to be in harmony with everyone and everything; in harmony with life.
Religion creates little islands of conformity, on which their members must reside to belong the that particular religion. As a result, it becomes restrictive, limiting, and judgemental in it's nature.
kiri
(797 posts)"spirituality" is a lot of hooey. Nobody knows what it is. It really means just that humans have emotions and feelings. Feeling something when experiencing beauty, love/tenderness, awe, sudden realizations, etc. is normal, worthwhile; humans have mental and physiological reactions. Fears are often involved.
This has nothing to do with 'spirits'', religion, sky gods, $$ to churches, and is only slightly related to sex.
Sky Jewels
(7,154 posts)Just because we evolved to feel love and tenderness to other humans and to animals and to have the brain capacity to appreciate the beauty and power of nature doesn't mean anything supernatural is involved in those feelings of awe and wonder.
Response to Sky Jewels (Reply #30)
Name removed Message auto-removed
patphil
(6,225 posts)But, I have engaged in spiritual endeavors all my adult life, and, although feelings like beauty, love/tenderness, awe, sudden realizations are a part of it, the true sense of being connected with people, the environment, and literally everything goes way beyond that.
Spirituality comes from the spirit that is at the center of your being; it's an angelic presence that is very powerful, and not just an emotional feeling.
Love is the connection that opens you up to your spiritual nature, and I can agree with you that true spirituality has little to do with sex; they are two very different things.
SouthernDem4ever
(6,617 posts)Thanks for posting this. His eloquence is unmatched.
Blaukraut
(5,695 posts)I had to laugh at his disclaimers of not being an expert in the field and then proceed to answer sounding almost like an expert. Sinatra was, apparently, highly intelligent and more importantly, curious about the world and its inhabitants.
Mysterian
(4,595 posts)I did not know Sinatra was such an intelligent person.
Demnation
(391 posts)StarryNite
(9,461 posts)Truth to power.
FakeNoose
(32,791 posts)Frank Sinatra probably thought he could get away with comments like these because in 1963 most of the Playboy readers were college-educated white men. The rest just looked at the photos and didn't bother reading anything. Secondly, there wasn't much chance of him insulting his own fans, since racist Southerners and ultra-conservative religionists weren't really among his fans anyway. (Nor did many admit to being readers of Playboy.)
Also there's a good chance that the interviewer paraphrased some of Mr. Sinatra's comments to make him sound more educated and philosophical than he really was.
sarchasm
(1,012 posts)Although I hope that isn't the case as I really would like to think it came naturally. I guess in the long run it doesn't really matter because it's what he wanted to say, and was most likely approved by him.
Goodheart
(5,345 posts)He may or may not be totally wrong about everything, but he was obviously very articulate and cerebral.
Raven123
(4,878 posts)bahboo
(16,370 posts)Norbert
(6,041 posts)on Twitter (before the bird died).
Nancy Sinatra made a comment criticizing trump.
A MAGA fired back, and said, "Your dad probably would have voted for trump."
Nancy answered, "You don't know my dad."
Niagara
(7,682 posts)Trump didn't want to pay the full amount plus the additional acts of Sinatra's proposed 12-show residency at the Atlantic City Taj Mahal. The additional acts involved Sammy Davis Jr. and another vocal duo.
Sinatra relayed a message to some manager telling Trump to "go eff himself." Rumor has it, Sinatra even gave Trump his phone number so that Sinatra could tell Trump that himself.
I'm inserting this tidbit in case the MAGAt crowd still insist that Sinatra would have voted for Trump.
chia
(2,244 posts)in his communication style and vocabulary. Wow.
sop
(10,274 posts)Kablooie
(18,641 posts)A natural on the next roll of the dice.
He also refused to perform once in the south unless Sammy David Jr. was given a room next to all the white performers.
Martin Eden
(12,876 posts)Thanks for sharing.
calimary
(81,523 posts)As I see it, man is a product of his conditioning, and the social forces which mold his morality and conduct including racial prejudiceare influenced more by material things like food and economic necessities than by the fear and awe and bigotry generated by the high priests of commercialized superstition.
Just WOW!
And I cant help wondering how many public figures make avowals of religious faith to maintain an aura of respectability.
Just WOW AGAIN!
His vocabulary is as powerful as are his vocals (avowals and opprobrium and obeisance, for example).
TRIPLE WOW!
And this one: How can a free people make decisions without facts? If the press reports world news as they report about me, were in trouble.
Holy Cow!!!
And on top of this well-reasoned and deeply thoughtful perspective, his grammar is Catholic-school-nun perfect. Including the usage of the word/object whom. Im nitpicking here, and I know he was no saint. But still
Mongo impressed! PROFOUNDLY impressed.
John1956PA
(2,659 posts)He was much brighter than I am. Unfortunately, between growing older and facing unresolved issues re alcohol excess, he was known to act up. I recall that, back in the 1980s, he made particular a comment to an Atlantic City blackjack dealer. That comment is contrary to his philosophy as reported in the interview. Okay, he was under the influence and showing off in the presence of one of his Rat Pack buddies. (Also, It may have been at nighttime which gave him anxiety.) All that I am saying that Sinatra was a mixed bag and that I neither extoll him nor criticize him.
Swede
(33,295 posts)You can tell he's well read. He has earned my respect.
Abolishinist
(1,316 posts)Although he did have 11 months at Drake Business School before dropping out. And yet, some believe on his own he came up with, for example,
"Sidestepping Marxian philosophy and dialectical vagaries, I think that communism can fester only wherever and whenever it is encouraged to breed..."
"Im like Albert Schweitzer and Bertrand Russell and Albert Einstein in that I have a respect for lifein any form."
montanacowboy
(6,103 posts)song Sinatra recorded - it says everything he believed in - it gives me chills every time I hear it
What is America to me?
A name, a map, a flag I see
A certain word, democracy
What is America to me?
The house I live in
A plot of earth, a street
The grocer and the butcher
And the people that I meet
The children in the playground
The faces that I see
All races and religions
That's America to me
A place I work in
A worker by my side
A little town or city
Where my people lived and died
The howdy and the handshake
The air of feeling free
And the right to speak my mind out
That's America to me
The things I see about me
The big things and the small
The little corner newsstand
And the house a mile tall
The wedding and the churchyard
A laughter and the tears
And the dream that's been a growing
For a hundred and eighty years
The town I live in
The street, the house, the room
Pavement of the city
Or a garden all in bloom
The church, the school, the clubhouse
The million lights I see
But especially the people
That's America to me
Wild blueberry
(6,665 posts)Thank you, Frank!
TxGuitar
(4,211 posts)that didn't go nearly as far.
keithbvadu2
(36,949 posts)His Wednesday/Sunday example is great.
Cheap forgiveness for repetitive sinning.
Forgiveness should include repentance and the effort of not doing it again.
Archae
(46,356 posts)I don't think he participated in any illegal activities, but some of his friends did.
Abolishinist
(1,316 posts)it just might be. This "interview" was probably ghostwritten by Mike Shore.
RA: One of the things that stunned me in your book is that the Playboy interview is a fraud.
JK: Yes.
RA: How did you stumble into that? Was that widely known before?
JK: No, it was not widely known before.
JK: Yes, of course, and theyre all attributed to Sinatra: 18-karat manic depressive, Im for whatever gets you through the night, be it prayer, tranquilizers, or a bottle of Jack Daniels. Yeah, there are at least three or four of these very, very famous quotes. Mike Shore was a genius, and I found him. I had heard the rumor that he was responsible for the interview. I interviewed the now late Stan Cornyn, who had written liner notes for Sinatra and was a strange and wonderful man, and when I asked him if Mike Shore was around anywhere, Stan Cornyn said, No, I think he died a few years ago. Well, I did some more hunting and Mike Shore was very much alive. He was 90. I talked with him a lot, and I met with him in L.A. Fascinating, fascinating guy. I wish he were still with us because there are a lot of questions I would still like to ask him.
RA: I have a couple. Did Sinatra see the answers before they were submitted?
JK: Yes, yes, yes. He rubber-stamped it. He loved Mike Shore.
https://www.thesmartset.com/under-our-skin/
John1956PA
(2,659 posts)I still respected Sinatra, flaws and all, throughout the later part of his life.
sarchasm
(1,012 posts)Someone certainly had a million dollar vocabulary there.
Thanks for shedding some light on the matter, Abolishinist.
Abolishinist
(1,316 posts)First of all, even if those WERE the words of Sinatra (they clearly are not), if this was in fact a live interview, for anyone except say a Christopher Hitchens type to speak profoundly in whole paragraphs I find to be most unlikely. That's not to say Sinatra didn't agree with all that was stated.
Mike Shore was an advertising executive with Reprise Records at the time. Some speculate he wrote both the questions and the answers and Sinatra signed off on it, knowing the significance of a Playboy interview. Playboy in turn agreed to run it as an interview knowing the significance of having Ol Blue Eyes named on the cover.
And thank you as well for being open to looking further into your OP, which is not always the case around here!
Baitball Blogger
(46,763 posts)"But to me religion is a deeply personal thing in which man and God go it alone together,
without the witch doctor in the middle."
Owl
(3,644 posts)erronis
(15,371 posts)He also talks about nuclear war and disarmament and world politics. Obviously some of his observations have been overtaken by events but his analyses are as good as, or better than, many of today's punditry class.
I wouldn't mind sitting down with Frank for a drink or two. (None for the road, however.)
twodogsbarking
(9,834 posts)From the beginning, Sinatra stood up for Sammy. Some time in the late 1940s, Frank appeared in a theater in New York during the lull of his career. He goes to Harlem to see the Will Maston Trio and is blown away by Sammys talent. After the show, he heads backstage to pay his respects, and asks Sammy to come see him perform.
About a week passes. No Sammy. So Sinatra goes back to Harlem to see the show again and says something to the effect of, Im angry with you, I came to see you twice and you never came to see me. Sammy, speaking to the man he admired more than anyone else in the world, said, Frank, I did. They wouldnt let me in.
Frank then storms back to the theater, tears up his contract and leaves. This was not Sinatra during his peak fame. He needed the gig. Sammy, the boy with the scrapbook, talked about that day a lot over the yea
MOMFUDSKI
(5,696 posts)it for me. Live and let live would be a breath of fresh air.
spanone
(135,891 posts)I still do.
🎼🎶
roamer65
(36,747 posts)Makes sense from his interview. He and JFK were similar politically.
JohnnyRingo
(18,657 posts)I'll put it on file for later use.
Thanx for sharing.
sky_masterson
(417 posts)The man who sang "The House I live in" and went to the mat for Sammy Davis Jr. is and was a good man.
Good ol Nathan Detroit.