It's a rare person who has any business criticizing anyone for shopping at Walmart

[Orrex]

If you buy a product from any vendor who also sells products at Walmart, then you have no business criticizing a consumer who shops at Walmart. By patronizing the vendor who sells at Walmart, you are endorsing that practice.

There are plenty of good reasons not to shop at Walmart, but many people simply lack viable options. Sure, they can get most of the same merchandise if they're willing/able to buy online, or if they can drive all over creation, or if they're willing/able to pay 10% to 25% more for whatever it is they're buying.

Beating up on people who shop at Walmart is, in practice, simply another way to attack the poor. We don't like it when the GOP does it, so we shouldn't do it ourselves, either.

[randome]

1. I agree. The idea that Wal-Mart is evil only applies, IMO, to what they pay their employees.

But Wal-Mart, on its own, doesn't mean a thing to me. Big Box, Mom-N-Pop, it's all the same. The old times are gone.

[Duer 157099]

177. It does not only apply to how they treat employees, although that is one big issue

it also applies to how they strong-arm their suppliers into selling to them at deep discounts, which then affects how the suppliers treat their employees, and so on and so on.

[Tumbulu]

178. Yes, I will not go there and am angry that others shop there

for this reason primarily, the way they treat their suppliers.

Walmart and Gap started the entire consumer globalization thing and it has not stopped disgusting me.

Yes, I know that people now shop there as it is the only place that they can find affordable things. And so I have tempered a bit over the years, but 20 years ago when all this was starting, I sure felt pretty angry.

Costco is blue and has many better deals than Walmart and Sams. And I hear good things from their suppliers.

[Myrina]

2. Thank you.

[Drale]

3. In my area its either Walmart or Jewel Osco

and at Jewel everyone has to join the Union, but if you are part time the Union could not give two shits about you and will make your life a living hell if you need them for anything.

[davsand]

74. At least Jewel Osco doesn't FIRE you for talking to the union.

My beef with the Wally world corporation is that they can and DO fire employees that talk to the unions. In the meantime, they abuse workers and barely pay them enough to live on--let alone provide adequate benefits. The Walmart kkkorporation is suppressing those workers' rights to collective bargaining and their shot at a better quality workplace.

Whatever beef you have with the union reps at Jewel Osco are problems with the actual UNION and its local.

Given a choice I will spend my cash with union friendly companies EVERY time.




Laura

[HappyMe]

4. Excellent point.

[JohnnyRingo]

5. Do I have to boycott pepperoni if I want to punish Papa Johns?

I've refused to patronize Nike for 20 years because of Phil Knight's practice of using slave labor, does that mean I have to find out where the company buys shoelaces and boycott them too?

WalMart is not "10% to 20% lower" than anyone, that's company propaganda that too many people buy into because of a multi-million dollar ad campaign. They may have a few loss leaders priced well below retail to get people into the store, but the average of prices is comparable to places like Target or Costco once you get through the checkout.

Indeed, there's an agency that keeps track of such average retail prices that found out Target is lower priced than WalMart most months. The average is figured as cents on the dollar, and it was only a small fraction, but it deflates the myth that WalMart has the cheapest prices in the country.

There is one example where WalMart is a good deal, and that's when there's competition in the neighborhood. Because WalMart has so many stores nationwide, they can sell products below retail at one location until the local competition puts plywood on the windows, then adjust their prices accordingly. Meanwhile, the lower prices are subsidized by higher prices at stores they operate in locations where they're the only store in town. All WalMarts are not created equal.

WalMart's entire advertising strategy is based on the lie that their prices are the lowest in the world:

Low, low prices: Target beats Wal-Mart

NEW YORK (CNNMoney) -- Wal-Mart's slogan may be "Save Money. Live Better," but rival Target is challenging it by offering even lower prices on everyday products.

Two recent price comparisons of grocery and household goods revealed that Target's prices are lower than at No. 1 retailer Wal-Mart.

Craig Johnson, president of retail consulting firm Customer Growth Partners, compared 35 brand-name items sold at Wal-Mart (WMT, Fortune 500) and Target (TGT, Fortune 500) stores in New York, Indiana and North Carolina. They consisted of 22 common grocery goods such as milk, cereal and rice; 10 general merchandise products such as clothing and home furnishings; and three health and beauty items.

Target's shopping cart rang in at $269.13 (pre-tax), a hair lower than the $271.07 charged at Wal-Mart.

"For the first time in four years, our price comparisons between the two has shown that Target has a slight edge over Wal-Mart," said Johnson. A smaller study by Kantar Retail found similar results.

Wal-Mart typically maintains a 2% to 4% price advantage over Target. But in January, Johnson noticed that some products were cheaper at Target.

That has continued into February, he said.

If you factor in additional discounts offered to Target's Redcard customers, the savings gap widens more considerably between the two discounters.

Said Johnson, "When you add the Redcard's 5% discount, the price gap widens to 5.7%."

More here:
http://money.cnn.com/2011/03/07/news/companies/walmart_target_better_price/index.htm

I do indeed criticise people who shop at WalMart and accuse them of being too lazy to shop around. My criticism is based on WalMart's cut throat predatory business practices that force local businesses to close up before raising their prices to above normal retail. Nice job, tool.

[Phentex]

6. and if you don't have a Target are you going to raise the pig and make your own pepperoni?

There's always someone taking it to the next level.

[Jamastiene]

15. Many people on DU assume everyone who lives in a rural area owns a full fledged farm.

Never mind the fact that most people who live in a rural area do not own a farm at all. Most farms nowadays are geared toward selling to the distributors who send the stuff to the big box stores anyhow, but try to tell the know-it-alls that.

[JohnnyRingo]

26. Target is only one example of a store that competes with WalMart.

My ex mother in law used to shop only at WalMart for her prescriptions. When she finally discovered that Walgreens is cheaper, she switched quicker than you can say "live better".

I hear the same argument about grocery stores like Giant Eagle here. People swear up and down that they save hundreds of dollars a year, but since they don't compare all the prices on the register receipt, they don't realize they pay the same bottom line as people who shop at Sparkle. No one is going to shop at three different stores, but they can quit buying into corporate propaganda the develops a sense of loyalty and results in habit shopping.

If there's no other option in your location except WalMart, it's likely because their strategy of driving businesses out of town has either already succeeded or no one in their right mind will open a store near one, because they know the power WalMart has to undercut them. At least until that store is gone.

The last time I went to a WalMart I needed some educational software for my grandkids, one of those head start type of programs that are grade specific. After roaming the aisles for an uncomfortable length of time, I finally tracked down an "associate". Then. after a ridiculous amount of time on his part, he finally determined that "we don't sell educational CDs". I realized how much that made sense as I left the store for the last time.

There was one other time before that. When I needed the new disc by Eric Clapton some years ago, I stopped there on my way to work. I was in a hurry so I asked the young "associate" working in music where it was, he replied "who's Eric Clapton?". Nice.

Here's some advice you can take to the bank: Corporate advertisements are allowed to mislead you into believing they offer their items at "low low prices", and that something on a shelf under a smiley is dirt cheap. I certainly wouldn't send a WalMart shopper to buy me a new car. They'd come back and tell me "the lowest price was already marked during their inventory reduction sale".

[CrispyQ]

45. This:

The last time I went to a WalMart I needed some educational software for my grandkids, one of those head start type of programs that are grade specific. After roaming the aisles for an uncomfortable length of time, I finally tracked down an "associate". Then. after a ridiculous amount of time on his part, he finally determined that "we don't sell educational CDs". I realized how much that made sense as I left the store for the last time.

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

171. Excellent post. I used to shop regularly for some household items a Walmart and was under the

"lowest prices" spell. At some point it seemed their price on many items went up. I began to compare and found that many of their items are not lower priced than Target or some other stores.

Around that time I began hearing more about what crap citizens and employers they are, so I pretty much avoid Walmart now.

[Jamastiene]

10. You are right. It makes MUCH more sense to drive 48.6 miles (one way) to the closest Target store

to spend $4 for a prescription and get groceries, then drive 48.6 miles back, especially on on hot spring and summer days when the temperature is 95+ degrees as early as 10:00 am. The milk will be safe. So will the eggs and raw chicken. A little food poisoning never hurt any rural natives and even if it does, who cares, right? They are just a bunch of red state losers who are wasting your oxygen to begin with anyhow, right?

If someone could afford to spend that much on gas money to begin with, AND drive that far from home for the same thing they could get in town from Wal Mart, they wouldn't need to buy prescriptions at $4 either. And, no, most people who live in rural areas cannot afford to rent a refrigerated truck, then drive almost 100 miles just to get groceries and pick up a prescription. And it doesn't make them lazy either. There is a thing called a budget that most people have to use. Driving 100 miles to pick up groceries would be considered extravagant. But, you just keep looking down your nose at them and patting yourself on the back for it if it makes you feel oh-so-superior.

[bluedigger]

23. I agree in principle, if not the details.

I see people using coolers and ice for their groceries all the time at both the City Market and the Walmart out here in the Four Corners. It's normal behavior. Some people have to drive a hundred miles or more round trip just to get to any store...

[JohnnyRingo]

27. Target was just one example.

My ex mother in law used to shop only at WalMart for her prescriptions. When she finally discovered at my behest that Walgreens is cheaper, she switched quicker than you can say "live better".

I hear the same argument about grocery stores like Giant Eagle here. People swear up and down that they save hundreds of dollars a year, but since they don't compare all the prices on the register receipt, they don't realize they pay the same bottom line as people who shop at Sparkle. No one is going to shop at three different stores, but they can quit buying into corporate propaganda the develops a sense of loyalty and results in habit shopping.

If there's no other option in your location except WalMart, it's likely because their strategy of driving businesses out of town has either already succeeded or no one in their right mind will open a store near one, because they know the power WalMart has to undercut them. At least until that store is gone.

Admit you're addicted to WalMart and their advertising strategy that has you conditioned to associate symbols with saving money. ... There, I saved you a buck.

[Atman]

57. Not to mention that eggs don't actually need refrigeration

Well, probably the ones from WalMart or Target do, because they're shipped from China.

But I do live in the country, and it seems as if every other house has chickens and sells eggs. They're never refrigerated. Many stores which sell in bulk just put pallets of eggs out on the sales floors. When we were traveling in Thailand, we took a ferry out to one of the islands, and among the luggage on the front of the boat was a big pallet of eggs. But I do suppose you should ask yourself...which spoils first, the chicken or the egg?

.

[HappyMe]

19. 'Too lazy' to shop around?

I took the bus to the craft store the other day. The WalMart is in the same mall complex area. The front of the Walmart was loaded with people waiting for the county bus. There is a Target here, but it is way past the city and county bus routes.

A Target Red Card is a credit card. Something everyone in a precarious financial situation should have.

[JohnnyRingo]

33. Why isn't there anything near your WalMart?

It's because their business model caused that to happen. Shopping there encourages them to continue driving smaller businesses away. Since there is no business bigger, that means all stores are on their hit list. If it was a level playing field, I'd have no complaint, but WalMart can and will sell at a loss in one location until they're the only store in town. Then you're on your own and those lost stores will never come back.

It sounds like you've already been WalMarted in your town, so have at it and "live better" ...
You'll never know if you're really saving money if you don't check around, but if your WalMart is the only store available in your area, you probably aren't.

I'm not pushing Target or their Red Card. I seldom go there myself because there are other options closer to home. I'm on a pension and I have to make every dollar count, so I compromise between paying just a couple percent more or driving 10 miles to another store. I have a stereo in my car so I enjoy the drive once in awhile.

If you have to take a bus or walk a long distance to shop, I suggest you buy where you have to, but I wonder if there's someplace closer you're ignoring because they don't have smilies on the shelves.

[HappyMe]

49. I didn't go into the Walmart.

I went to the craft store that is in the same complex as the Walmart. My comment was about the scads of folks waiting outside the Walmart for the bus because that is where the bus stop is for that mall area. There is also a Lowe's and a Gander Mountain there.

If I have to run out and get something fast, I walk to the mom & pop grocery. Bigger shopping gets done at the grocery store that is closer. I'm not ignoring any store close by.

[JohnnyRingo]

50. Then I'm Happy Me too.

Point well taken.

[Atman]

60. RaceTrac Gas Stations in Florida do this, and have been busted for it.

They move in and set up huge 20-pump gas stations that take up half a block, with a store attached. Then they charge below cost for gasoline for a few months as the station cranks up, and the small independent gas stations shut down. Exactly the same practice as Wal Mart. They've been sued for it, and their defense in court was literally that the number of other gas stations they shut down was relatively small, and not enough to hurt the local. Sure...tell it to the owner of the other stores/stations you shut down!

Great info under "Predatory Practices" and RaceTrac's Wiki page.

.

[MicaelS]

28. Target's selection is poor some areas in comparision to Walmart.

Last time I need a wallet, I went to Target. Asked where they were. They had 2 frigging shelves on 1 end cap with mens wallets. Maybe 15 different wallets in total. Left there went to Walmart. They had 4 free standing waist high shelf units that had wallets on both sides. Too many to count. Found what I wanted, and bought it then and there.

[JohnnyRingo]

37. The Waltons thank you.

No they don't.

There are other stores besides Target. I was just using that as an example of one option that offers goods at a similar price. We have a TJ Maxx here that I enjoy because they have a knowledgeable staff, shorter lines, and a constantly changing stock with competitive prices. WalMart loyalists don't know that because they don't go elsewhere.

I didn't start shunning WalMart out of principle, I did it because I had to return too many of my purchases. I have a friend with a small business who used to vend to the local WalMart. He told me that after he signed his contract they gradually cut the price he was paid until he could no longer supply them.

A bigger vendor would find a way to cut their price to continue supplying WalMart, like selling goods that are made in other countries with lower quality control, or selling seconds. Therefore, not all consumer goods are created equal. A Westinghouse steam iron sold at WalMart will likely not be of the same quality as one sold at another store. WalMart doesn't care because they just refund your money and send it back to the supplier. They know you'll try again until you get one that works.

[99Forever]

51. Excellent post, Johnny R.

Walmart's business practices are a BIG part of what ails this nation. Shopping in those crapholes is the equivalent of cutting ones own throat.

How precisely would the OP propose that a person go about "boycotting" every product that America hating chain of moneygrubbing jerks carries? That's beyond the pale. I've never heard a more ridiculous attempt at justifying self-destructive idiocy, in my entire life.

[Sekhmets Daughter]

54. 2 months ago

My son bought a 60" flat screen television at Best Buy which had to be delivered. He went to Costco and WalMart after he made the purchase to check their prices. Costco didn't have the unit he wanted and WalMart was asking $100. more for the identical television.

He's a regular WalMart shopper, a hangover from his college and law schools days, but he is learning they are not the best price for many things.

[JohnnyRingo]

120. Tractor Supply Warehouse beat WalMart on my lawn mower.

It was about $300 a couple years ago, but WalMart wanted almost $50 more, plus TSW put it together for me.

You just don't get personal service or a knowledgeable staff like that at any WalMart. By the time WalMart employees get to know that they want a career in sales, they quit and get a better job at another store. Nobody in their right mind would ask someone who works at McDonalds cook this Thursday's dinner.

The same goes for Handyman Hardware where I'm dealing with someone who knows hardware better than myself.

[Sekhmets Daughter]

159. I think WalMart uses its

low prices for the basic crap they offer to convince people their prices are better on other items. Consumers need to beware. $100. more for a television is theft if you ask me.

[Orrex]

187. Your son should have asked about price-matching

That way he could have gotten the tv h wamted AND screwed Walmart out of $100.

[Sekhmets Daughter]

189. That would have been fun

But I'm just happy he saw them in a whole new light.

[hughee99]

65. I keep hearing about how Walmart drives out the competition (which it certainly does)

and then jacks up their prices to "above normal" retails. I've heard plenty of accounts of how it undercuts competitors and drives them out of business, but I've never heard someone talking about how the problem with Walmart is that it's just too damn expensive. I'd imagine in areas where their strategy worked, we'd hear at least a few stories about how someone has to drive 50 miles to some mom-and-pop store because the local Walmart is just too expensive, but I've never heard one. Is there some Walmart somewhere that sells a $5 stick of gum or $50 T-shirt?

[Orrex]

71. If you buy pepperoni from the company that supplies Papa Johns...

then you're being a hypocrite if you don't criticize that company as sharply as you criticize consumers who patronize Papa Johns. You're saying, in essence, that it's fine for a multi-million dollar company do to something, but it's bad for single-income families to do the same.

[JohnnyRingo]

121. Each step in a supply line to the consumer is a separate transaction.

Would you boycott WalMart for selling shotguns that kill students in Colorado? I have plenty of other reasons.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/andrew-turnbull/3423342114/

I have a personal boycott on Nike products because of Phil Knight's use of slave labor. It's now a business model for the company. I hardly think I have to find out who they buy their shoelaces from to avoid being a hypocrite.

[gollygee]

96. Many of their "loss leaders" are really different versions of whatever product it is

My brother worked for a company that made an item that was sold at a number of places, including Walmart, and Walmart said they had to make it cheaper, so the Walmart version was different. A number of internal metal parts were replaced with plastic parts.

[JohnnyRingo]

122. That's my understanding too.

I have a friend who was supplying the local WM with something (tell the truth, I forget what is was), but WM kept coming back at him for a lower and lower cost until he had to end the contract.

It make total sense that a huge vendor that supplies hundreds of store would just find a way to cut their costs to keep the mega-deal continue. Two ways are to outsource and make a cheaper copy of the original model (or both).

Sears was famous for selling brand name car batteries and other products "made to Sears specifications". As if that was better.

[Orrex]

188. I'd like to see a citation for that

I've heard that same assertion a great many times, but I have yet to see even one article objectively documenting it. Lots and lots of anecdote and no hard data. If someone can send me a link to a solid, verifiable story, I would appreciate it.

Why hasn't Costco or Target run this story all over the news? If true, it would seem like a natural win for any Walmart competitor. Heck, you'd think that Consumer Reports would be all over it.

[bettyellen]

7. Walmart's prices are not cheaper

[randome]

8. It may depend on what area you live in. Here in St. Louis, for the most part they are.

[spinbaby]

34. They sell cheap stuff cheap

Walmart is often perceived to be cheaper when what they're actually doing is offering a lesser quality item.

A good example I've found recently is bacon. The brand we buy costs less at Walmart than the same brand at the Giant Eagle. But if you compare what you're actually buying, you'll find that the Giant Eagle sells one-pound package of nice slices while Walmart sells a 12-ounce package that contains a lot of weird pieces and chunks.

[JohnnyRingo]

41. That's a point many WalMart loyalists seem unaware of

I didn't start shunning WalMart out of principle, I did it because I had to return too many of my purchases. I have a friend with a small business who used to vend to the local WalMart. He told me that after he signed his contract they gradually cut the price he was paid until he could no longer supply them.

A bigger vendor would find a way to cut their bottom line to continue supplying WalMart, like selling goods that are made in other countries with lower quality control, or selling seconds. Therefore, not all consumer goods are created equal.

A Westinghouse steam iron sold at WalMart will likely not be of the same quality as one sold at another store. WalMart doesn't care because they just refund your money and send it back to the supplier. One just has to look at how many people are at the return counter when they walk into the store.

When one factors in the gas they waste returning items that are unnacceptable, they save nothing. But then again, after going through the customer sevice line they can do more shopping and "save" even more money.

[gollygee]

99. This is true for housewares and tools and things too

See my post #96. This happens with many of their products. They want you to think you're getting the same thing cheaper, but you're really getting a different item.

[bettyellen]

183. And clothing, food, every type of product!

[glinda]

55. Noticed they mark some things down and other items are higher sometimes.

[840high]

58. Depends on the item. I

save on cat food, litter, paper items.

[Scootaloo]

152. No, they're really not

The costs that the shopper saves, are passed on to the workers in the stores and the factories. Those "Everyday Low Prices" aren't the product of magical dust sprinkled on the products, they're the result of unfair labor practices and exploitation.

[bettyellen]

154. yes, they exploit workers, and most don't realize- their suppliers also. many products are crappier

versions made especially for Walmart, with crappier ingredients or components, labeled to look like their standard product. ANd they take smaller markups hoping they'll get big volume, but they have to cut corners with their wages too then.

It erodes the quality and sometimes the reputation of the brands, but it's a gamble many firms make because there's so much pressure in the market to do what everyone else is doing. But Walmart started it all.

They've led the majority who participate in the marketplace to a cliff, and everyone has to jump in order to get paid.

[backscatter712]

9. Oh, give me a break.

Unions not only "had any business to criticize", but did criticize anyone who crossed their picket lines to work in a business that was under strike. Yes, they asked the poorest of the poor to make another sacrifice, so they can cause economic damage to a business that abused its workers.

Well guess what? Walmart abuses its workers. Time to cause them economic pain.

You poor? So am I. You can still find another fucking place to shop.

Don't be a scab.

[WhoIsNumberNone]

14. +1

[backscatter712]

17. Solidarity, brother!

[Comrade_McKenzie]

16. I worked at Walmart until I had to quit and start taking anxiety medication...

But it's still the best bang for my buck.

Spending more elsewhere while I have no income would hurt me more than it hurts them.

[backscatter712]

20. And every snowflake says they weren't at fault in the avalanche... n/t

[JohnnyRingo]

43. We can stand together, or we can fall apart.

People who spit on families that are on strike to save fifty cents are willing corporate tools in a frantic race to a lower minimum wage.

[Orrex]

66. So you hold low-income famlies to a higher standard than multi-billion dollar corporations?

If you piss and moan that low-income families should "find another fucking place to shop," then you sure as hell better criticize Coca-Cola, Pepsi, Mattel, Hasbro, Nintendo, Dell, and the million other suppliers who don't "find another fucking place" to sell. Absolutely any argument you can make for why people shouldn't shop at Walmart applies at least as readily to any vendor who supplies Walmart.

It would be nice if it were as simple as you want to believe. Unfortunately, reality is more complicated.

[backscatter712]

116. You just made a convoluted version of the tu quoque fallacy.

Or in plain English, "Just because he's a hypocrite doesn't mean he's wrong."

Yes, as a matter of fact, we can bash and boycott and strike Walmart today, and save Coca-Cola for another day.

[Orrex]

118. That's fine, as long as the other day comes

So far, I have seen any number of threads bashing the shoppers and few or none bashing the suppliers. Omce again, the supply side is given a pass while the demamd side takes the hit.

[tama]

180. We all do

We hold We the People - our selves - to high standard. We expect no standards from sociopathic corporations.

[Daemonaquila]

107. Bravo.

It's not good to use the "pity the poor" card to excuse the action of Walmart. Nor do we need to stop eating chicken if we boycott Chick-Fil-A, or stop using certain toiletteries/using certain brands of towels and sheets/stop watching certain brands of TVs, etc. if we are supporting strikers against a certain hotel chain that uses those. What an absurd statement.

Walmart must go down. It abuses its workers and makes them poor. It feeds on the poor and their need to get the best deal for their money, regardless of the damage they are doing to themselves, their neighbors, and their community.

I live in a rural community of 2,400 with the next largest town 15 miles away with a population of 12,000, and we have other options than Walmart. My town's grocery store is horrible and exorbitantly priced, so everyone goes 15 miles to shop. We have 2 grocery stores that are as inexpensive as Walmart. We have 5 pharmacies that can give as good a price as Walmart within that 15 mile radius. One of the groceries is a superstore version that also has TVs, housewares, and such - also inexpensive. We have a mom & pop hardware/general goods store with prices on most goods comparable to Walmart, though the selection isn't as huge. People don't need a bigger selection of utter crap, anyway. Very few people have legitimate excuses to shop at Walmart.

[99Forever]

113. Bingo.

Scabs suck pondscum.

[Jamastiene]

11. Thank you, Orrex.

It is not always feasible to drive 100 miles to pick up groceries and a prescription, especially when 7 miles actually fits the budget.

[Comrade_McKenzie]

12. Agreed. People are always going to buy the cheapest products...

And no one should fault them for that.

[Tom Ripley]

149. But it is not cost effective to the consumer when those products are also of the cheapest quality

WalMart excels at that type of fleecing. No bang, but a whimper for your buck.

[Bandit]

13. While I don't criticize anyone for where they shop, I do take notice.

I do not shop at right wing establishments and I pay attention to those that do.. That does not mean those people are my enemy, only that they choose to support right wing establishments, which IMO is extremely harmful for America...

[Iggo]

18. Who's criticizing people for shopping at WalMart?

Let me rephrase that: Who's criticizing poor people for shopping at WalMart?

[Orrex]

72. Quite a few people in this thread, in fact.

They've been called "lazy" and "scabs" and "tools" for doing so. Haven't you been reading?

And that's just in this thread alone. There are at least two others currently ongoing in which people of low income are bashed for shopping at Walmart.

The criticism is loud and widespread. Otherwise I wouldn't have posted my OP.

[Iggo]

77. Unbelievable.

Last edited Tue Nov 20, 2012, 11:14 PM - Edit history (1)

Reminds me of the no-food-stamps-for-fast-food people.

Get poor, fuckers. Then we'll talk.

[Orrex]

83. Exactly

It's nice to talk about options when you have options.

Take those options away, and then what?

[leveymg]

21. There's no excuse for shopping at Wal*Mart if you have any feasible options. It's just a bad habit

like smoking cigarettes or commuting to work in a 6,000 pound SUV.

Break the Wal*Mart addiction.

[JohnnyRingo]

46. You're absolutely right.

Brand loyalty is like putting on blinders before people shop, and is a big part of corporate strategy.

I have a friend who only bought Oldsmobiles because they were the best car GM offered. Nevermind that many of their models were just Buicks with different badging, he knew it wasn't like "his father's Oldsmobile".

[Barack_America]

61. I agree. I've moved to buying most things second-hand.

Cheaper than Wal-Mart (and other big box stores) and my money stays local. Better for the environment too.

As for food and other perishables, I really find it hard to believe there could be NO stores for 30-50 miles, as another OP has claimed. Perhaps no other big box stores, but there has to be *something*. If one is that remote, I don't even see how a Wal-Mart could be profitable.

[Eleanors38]

22. You're right. The poor are an easy target.

[HopeHoops]

24. Oh fucking bullshit. Local small businesses are way better options.

WalMart is predatory. Their only goal is to kill all competition. They undersell for a while to draw the idiots and then gradually raise the prices to more than the local family-owned businesses were charging. It's like a highly addictive drug. You get a packet for $5 and then the price goes up to $20 and you still keep shooting up, you need your fix. The long-term dealer still sells the packet for $6.

And the only reason there aren't "viable options" is because WalMart selectively runs them out of business. It's perhaps the most evil retail company (won't say "store&quot on the planet.

I don't care what income level you are at. Shopping at WalMart just creates more hardship. Local businesses are the way to go. We're never going to come out of the Bush Depression without local businesses. It just won't happen.

[freemay20]

29. Disagree

Not all people have the money to not care about pricing. In many instances, prices at W-MART ( I am against them) are much lower than local small businesses. When it comes to food, it is in most instances a substantial difference. Many people can not afford to pay 100 dollars at the local store when the same products can be bought at a big box store for 75 dollars. For some people it is a must to have the things needed for simply survival. Your one-sided view is incorrect. Local is not always a better option. As they say, you might want to put on the shoes of others less fortunate and then make your belligerent comments. Oh,, and by the way, so nice of you substituting illegal drugs for things sold at WMart such as food and necessities. I do not think all people that shop there are drug addicts, but as I said, way to go.

[HopeHoops]

30. I'm currently in the low-income department. Gas to get there factors in too.

I shop as locally as possible. Local businesses keep the economy strong. Mega-businesses don't give a shit. And I take offense at the "one-sided view" comment, as well as the accusation of being "belligerent". Neither is true. WalMart is the REASON you have to drive so far to get things. They actively killed your local stores. Is it worth spending $4.00 in gas to save $2.00 on toilet paper?

I prefer shopping by bike. My wife and I used a tandem with a front basket, two side baskets, and fold-out saddle bags to do our shopping 20 years ago. And everywhere we shopped was local (within 6 miles). A farmers' market is far cheaper than any grocery store and the produce is much better.

The only objective WalMart has is to destroy local businesses and become the monopoly so they can charge far more than the local businesses ever did. That's their business model. They're evil on every level. Spending a single penny there just helps them become the empire they want to be.

[pnwest]

69. sorry. not always true. My local small business grocery sells

my favorite lunchmeat for $5.99, and it is $4.00 at WM. They only have to truck it 27 miles farther than the Walmart to get it here, that does NOT justify their price. MY local small grocer gouges their customers because they know they are the only option unless we drive 27 miles away. ALL of their prices are exhorbitant. Milk is $4.60...lettuce is $1.79...and my Brummel & Brown? fuggedaboudit.

[HopeHoops]

76. $1.99 difference for 27 miles? Even at 20 mpg, the meat costs more.

Think about it. 27 miles is 54 miles round trip. At 20 mpg, that's 2.7 gallons of gas. Gas runs about $3.70, so you're spending $10 to save $1.99. Wrong answer.

[pnwest]

88. oh please, you think I drive 27 miles JUST for lunchmeat? DERRRR!!! No, it's a pilgrimage for

a car load of staples, combined with 6 other errands I might have to run while in town anyway. It IS worth it to spend the same amount I was going to spend anyway, but get about 30% more goods for my money.

[HopeHoops]

92. I don't know where you live, but that isn't true around here.

I usually couple 12 errands or more on a run and seldom cross the 10 mile line. But think about that gas factor when you say "30% more" - I doubt it's true.

[KittyWampus]

79. There is no local small business selling lingerie/underwear- that I can afford.

This is just me throwing out an example and not so much trying to argue any point.

Where I live, it's a tourist town for the most part. You can go to the big box and buy undies that are affordable or go to the local place that sells very expensive (and gorgeous) lingerie to the wealthy who own summer houses and to tourists shopping.

I really do try to shop local and support local businesses because my family is a third generation small business.

But sometimes, for various reasons, there isn't much of a reasonable alternative.

[HopeHoops]

81. What about K-Mart. They have some really nice "sexy" stuff.

[Orrex]

87. If local businesses provide the products that the person needs, then they should certainly buy there

If, of course, the price isn't prohibitive. Local vendors in my area also sell paint more or less equivalent to the brands sold by Walmart, and if I don't mind paying an extra 25% to 30%, then I can certainly buy from the local mom-n-pop.

And the only reason there aren't "viable options" is because WalMart selectively runs them out of business. It's perhaps the most evil retail company (won't say "store&quot on the planet.

IKEA is just about as bad, and Target and KMart are only marginally better.

But even if what you say is true, that they've run the outher companies out of business, what is the individual low-income consumer supposed to do about it? Drive 40 miles to pay an extra 20% just to thumb his nose at the ghost of Sam Walton?

The coming boycott is a terrific idea, and as I've said elsewhere I shop at Walmart only when necessary, but I don't attack people who have fewer options than I do.

[HopeHoops]

90. I think we're on the same page here. The WalMart business plan is to eliminate competition.

I buy almost everything within a ten mile radius. Other than K-Mart, it's all small businesses. I DO have to run about 12 miles to get ink cartridges for my HP 7200, but only if I fuck up and don't order them online in time. The LOLCats run through a lot of ink. Office Max is the only place around here that carries 02 ink cartridges.

I remember Zayre's, Ame's, Jamesway, and a lot of other "K-Mart"-like chains - Woolworths?

Everywhere WalMart goes, they kill small businesses. That alone is reason enough to boycott them. Their current target is Toys R Us (Bain Capital took care of K-Bee for them). Our local Toys R Us slit the WalMart throat. WalMart wanted to put in a "mini" store (as in less than 40,000 sq. ft.) in an abandoned car dealership lot near the local Toys R Us. You see where this is going.

In order to accommodate the store, they would have to put in an 8-story parking garage with high-intensity lights and remove the standing field of old-wood pines that block the current mall lights from the residential areas. Toys R Us fucked them up royally by building a new store about 5 miles away and abandoning the old location. Sizzle.

[Sen. Walter Sobchak]

155. The "local small businesses" where I live...

are filthy holes in the wall, with little or no parking where everyone who comes in the door is treated like a known shoplifter and their return policy is to immediately lose the ability to speak english. They sucked in the 80's before Walmart came to California and they still suck now.

Retail sucks, nobody working at Gottschalks was sending their kids to private school.

[HopeHoops]

160. Damn. That sucks. It's completely the opposite here and I look like Tommy Chong.

[JDPriestly]

25. I don't think you can criticize people who shop at Walmart unless

they have other choices. But you can criticize Walmart's marketing practices. It deliberately tries to establish a monopoly in small town America.

[bvar22]

40. ...and THAT is the problem.

WalMart is only doing what our politicians, Democrat & Republican, have given them permission to do.

The benefits of "Free Trade" are ONLY available to Mega Corporations.
Mom & Pop do not have the resources to Demand a Volume Deal in China (or any other Slave Labor country), and then transport the product across the ocean.

There was a time, not so long ago,when legislation and regulation prevented large corporations from moving into an area and undercutting the locally owned businesses. Dollars spent in small towns stayed local,
and a Good Living could be made by The Many.

We could have that again,
if we had a Political Party that represented the Working Class.





You will know them by their WORKS,
not by their rhetoric, promises, or excuses.
[font size=5 color=green]Solidarity99![/font][font size=2 color=green]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------[/center]

[Union Scribe]

127. Yep, they manufacture customers by eliminating their options. nt

[Sheldon Cooper]

31. Some of the working poor are just too tired after working two and three

jobs to run around from store to store to save $.10 here on toilet paper and $.20 there on ground beef and oh yeah, the car's down a quart because it's leaking oil again. Having a store like walmart which carries pretty much everything can be a real time and energy saver for them. People are doing what they can just to survive in this world. They don't have the luxury of time and money to go from place to place to place just to get the basic necessities.

I'm lucky enough that I don't have to shop at walmart, and I'll walk a mile in someone else's shoes before I'll begrudge those that do.

[BlueMan Votes]

32. actually...No.

If you purchase a manufacturers product at a different retailer for a higher price with better quality(many manufacurers make lower-end walmart-specific models to sell on the cheap)- you are NOT endorsing the practice.

the poor are beating themselves up by continuing to shop at walmart. THEY are the ones that are endorsing the walmart model.

[Orrex]

105. actually... yeah

Setting aside the handful of items specifically manufactured @ lowwr quality for Walmart's shelves (by the way, I'd love to see your source for that claim, if only to learn how widespread this practice is), I'm referring instead to the vast array of items that are the same, down to the UPC symbol from one retailer to the next.

If you criticize Walmart shoppers but fail to criticize any vendor who sells through Walmart, then you are simply being hypocritical. You're saying "shame on you people for dealing with Walmart, but it's okay for you companies to deal with Walmart." That's a hypocritical double standard.

If you want to take issue with the person who buys a product at Walmart, you must equally take issue with the vendor who put that product on the shelf. If you do not, then you are holding people of minimal income to a higher standard than you are holding billion dollar multinational corporations.

Why?

[BlueMan Votes]

114. you're definitely entitled to your own opinion...

but i don't agree with it. personal buying choices and corporate sales policies are not equivalent. but if you want to see it as such- more power to you.
and as far as my source for the claim about walmart-specific models made by manufacturers- i can only reccommend google, because i have read about the same practice in a number of articles over the years, but can't really point to any specific one. snapper, vlassic, sony, are among the companies i can specifically recall having done so. consumer electronics is one sector where it's fairly common, iirc.

[Orrex]

119. Personal choices and corporate sales policies may not be the same, but...

If you won't comdemn Coke et al for engaging in business with (that is, for acting like) Walmart, then you have little basis for condemning Walmart for acting like Walmart, either.

[BlueMan Votes]

123. I don't condemn Walmart for being Walmart as much as i blame Walmart shoppers...

for being walmart shoppers.

if they didn't come- they wouldn't build them.

[Orrex]

125. I accept that this is your view; I simply find it untenable

You are manifestly holding individuals to a higher standard than you hold corporations. If you allow that corporations can do whatever they need to do (i.e., Walmart being Walmart), then I don't see how one can condemn individuals for doing the same.

In any case, yours is a minority view. Not that this invalidates it. It just means that my OP isn't really addressing you.

[BlueMan Votes]

133. individuals should be held to a higher standard than corporations.

corporations aren't people- they're soulless entities whose only concern is ever-increasing profits.

people are supposed to know better.

[Orrex]

138. A nice sentiment, but I disagree

Multibillion dollar corporations have the resources and capacity to attain a higher standard than the person trying to make $40 last through the end of the month.

[BlueMan Votes]

153. corporations aren't concerned with higher standards- their interest is higher profits.

their ONLY interest.
corporations don't have to face themselves in the mirror every morning, and they never lay awake at night contemplating the ramifications of their actions and decisions. they aren't hounded by a lifetime of regrets and have no curiosity about the road not taken.

corporations have no humanity.

people have the option and ability to make choices based on the morality of a situation.

if it's about putting food in kids mouths- that should be what drives the decision.

for other things and...stuff- thanks to the internet and sites like ebay or amazon marketplace, Walmart isn't the only shopping choice in town for anyone anymore.

[Orrex]

166. I've done some digging on this subject but haven't found much concrete info

There are lots of anecdotal (and anonymous) postings online about "Walmart-specific models," but in every case (of the two dozen or so that I read), it was a matter of an unambiguously Walmart-specific model being of lower quality than another, universally available model.

There are reported cases of a particular low-price, low-quality model of faucet or tv or power tool produced specifically for Walmart, but I didn't read any confirmed reports of Walmart selling low-quality versions of universally available products. That is, if you buy a Walmart-specific product, it may be of lower quality, but if you buy a non-Walmart-specific product, it will be the same quality as if you purchased it at Target or Best Buy or wherever.

Honestly, I don't see a problem with this, as long as the inferior product isn't falsely advertised as identical to the better one. I remember KMart selling shit-grade sneakers 30+ years ago, right alongside better brands. Walmart is hardly original or unique in this practice.

[BlueMan Votes]

167. here's a piece by a businessweek columnist on the subject...

it's mostly anecdotal- examples/stories sent in by readers.

http://www.businessweek.com/innovate/NussbaumOnDesign/archives/2007/02/can_this_be_true_of_wal-mart.html


Can This Be True Of Wal-Mart?
Posted by: Bruce Nussbaum on February 4, 2007

I print this comment about cameras and digital products sold by Wal-mart by a reader because it is so astounding. Please send in any of your own experiences. And Wal-Mart execs, I hope you are taking notes and making changes in the way you do business. The clock is ticking.

Here goes:

“>Here’s a cautionary tale for anyone thinking of making a purchace at walmart or sams based on price comparison.

I wanted an inexpensive digital camera for my daughter. After finding one with the basic features I wanted, I went to sears, target and walmart to check prices. All 3 stores sold the a camera with the exact same model number. Sears -$119 target -$109 walmart - $99 . I bought it at the manufactures online store but when the camera was delivered it DID NOT have all the features that the Sears and Target salesperson had shown me (couldn’t get help at the Walmart store). I contacted the factory store and asked them if perhaps the one I got was an older version of this camera since the model number on the unit was the correct. The customer service agent apologized and said I must have gotten one of the “WALMART” cameras. These units were manufactured just for them with the same model number but with reduced features. So while the price was a little lower at walmart, the value was worse since it was a stripped down version.

When I told this story to some friends, they were surprised because they had similar tales. One had purchased a computer printer and couldn’t get some of the features she wanted to work. When she called the factory, the first question they asked her was if she bought the printer at SAMS. When told that she did not, they were able to guide her through her set up problems. At the end, however, she asked them what SAMS would have had to do with it. The answer: that model, when sold at SAMS, was a stripped down version without the features she wanted.

Another friend wanted a computer. Being a very tech-savvy consumer, he heavily researched all the different model numbers on the brand he wanted so he could compare prices across the different Chainstores. WalMart and Sams were similar BUT slightly unique numbers, which his research led him to believe had inferior internal components, stripped down software and were loaded with WALMART spyware. I cant comment on the veracity of his technical observation - just that he felt that the general public was being misled into thinking they were a better deal than they really were.

[Orrex]

168. Interesting, but problematic as you note

I'd like to read an actual, objective investigative piece on the subject, rather than the "friend of a friend" stories I've seen so far.

The level of fraud involved in such a practice would be massive and (it seems to me) would almost certainly have been exposed already if it were true as stated. At the very least, you'd think that Target or Costco would be pushing for an independent analysis of these claims.

I'm afraid that I have to remain unconvinced for now, though I'm reminded of an exchange that I had on DU2, on this exact same subject. Here's a comment by someone who flatly disbelieved the claim about inferior "Walmart-specific" models:

one production run of millions of units with cheap plastic parts (and a shitty warranty) for the box stores, and a smaller production run of a few thousand units with metal parts (and a great warranty) for the little guy.

bullshit.

Sums up my view pretty succinctly, as a matter of fact.

I'd prefer not to post a direct link to the thread, since I don't want to drag that other DU'er into this discussion, but if you'd care to read it first hand I can PM you the URL.

[BlueMan Votes]

169. here's something similar that's a little more fact-based-

it's from 2007

http://news.cnet.com/Sony-plans-TV-line-for-Wal-Mart,-Target/2100-1041_3-6190298.html

Sony plans TV line for Wal-Mart, Target

SAN FRANCISCO--Sony will soon be selling a line of televisions specifically for Wal-Mart Stores, Target and other discount retailers.

Without revealing too many other details, Randy Waynick, Sony Electronics' senior vice president of marketing, said Monday that the company would supply a "unique series of models" of liquid-crystal display (LCD) televisions to big-box retailers for availability in the next 60 days. It's part of the company's strategy to sell to targeted groups of consumers. That means smaller specialty electronics sellers will also be supplied specific models, so they won't be competing as directly with the largest retailer in the world, Wal-Mart.

Although Sony ranks as the top seller of televisions, the company (like all established electronics vendors) is facing increased competition from new companies offering cheaper sets. Often, these companies avoid the electronics superstores and sell their products in club stores and big-box retailers. The new sets will allow Sony to better fend off newcomers without alienating its traditional partners by selling the same sets in different stores for the same price...

[Orrex]

172. Interesting. As long as this practice is open and transparent, I'm ok with it

If Sony and Walmart aren't passing these products off as if they were actually identical to those sold through Best Buy (etc.), then I don't see it as a problem.

I'm sure that they'd try some sort of weasel-ish move like calling the universally available model the "Sony XYZ123" and the Walmart model as "Sony XYZ123w" or something similar, but even that wouldn't strike me as wrong per se. Sneaky, yes, but so is a puffed up bag of potato chips that's only 1/4 full.

But if Walmart sells the item in away that it renders it visually indistinguishable from its higher quality counterpart, then I'd cry foul.

[4_TN_TITANS]

35. You won't catch me in one

but I can certainly understand someone not having any other alternatives, when you can get everything under one roof.

[DUFan]

36. Snobs - Not you, Orrex.

I am one of the poor for whom Wal-mart is upscale shopping. I buy my clothing at the local thrift store. Reading this just makes me feel so bad about myself that I don't think I can stay at this site anymore. Go ahead and berate the unfortunate, I won't be here to see it.

[leveymg]

39. Nobody's berating the poor without choices. The problem is those who choose to shop at Wal*Mart

who forgo better, more socially responsible retail options but who continue to shop there out of habit.

[Care Acutely]

80. Actually that very thing is being done on this thread. Blaming and berating of the poor

who do not have alternatives, and those who have alternatives but would be harmed considerably in choosing them.

Instead of respectful understanding - too many here are showing that moralizing high-horse ass-hattery is sadly not a behavior confined to the to the party of bellowing elephants.

[leveymg]

84. How? Who's blaming the poor and being a "moralizing high-horse ass hat" on this thread?

My gut tells me that more than 90% of the people who shop at WalMart have other retail choices. Nobody who I have seen here is saying that the remaining 10% should have their nearest Wal*Mart dynamited or be forced to shop for work boots at Prada.

Wal*Mart is a cancer - who's blaming the victims here?

[Jamastiene]

106. Yes, they are...in this very thread.

They are calling people lazy and everything else under the sun even after it was pointed out to them that the closest Target was almost 50 miles away one way. The closest Costco is 65 miles away too. What they don't seem to understand is that if a small town away from the larger cities has a Wal Mart, their Kmart and other medium sized stores are gone. Part of the agreement in my hometown between the Democrats who run this city and Wal Mart was that Winn Dixie had to close for the SuperCenter Wal Mart to be built. Guess what happened? Stores all over the place started closing, both small businesses and medium sized stores.

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

170. The Goodwill, Salvation Army, and thrift stores often have better quality clothing at lower prices

than Walmart. In addition to those positives, I like the recycle aspect of it. I used to shop at Walmart but try to avoid it now.

[Lionessa]

38. I'd rather do with less stuff at a higher price

at a reputable store, than in anyway support Walmart.

Additionally as for the buying any brand sold at Walmart... seems I've read that much of what is sold at Walmart by BrandX isn't the same quality as BrandX sold in other stores. Foodstuffs have more things like wood pulp filler, other stuff has cheap parts and the model numbers never are the same as in other stores.

Having never set foot in a Walmart I cannot say for sure, however I do know that, for example, in buying a stereo at Costco, I found what looked for all intents and purposes to be the one Consumer Reports recommended, but the model number had an extra letter, indicating that it was not the exact model. When I checked with the manufacturer before buying they told me that the letter was added because the model at Costco had been adjusted "slightly" to manage to fit Costco's low price requirements and that it should not be considered the same model as the one in CR.

Just saying, I can support a brand's higher quality goods sold at more considerate markets.

[CrispyQ]

42. I do not shop at Walmart, but I agree with your post.

Walmart is the icon of big box stores, like Hummers are the icon of SUVs. We direct our negative feelings toward these particular behemoths, but Target isn't much better from accounts I've read. And Amazon? Weren't they forced to install air conditioners in their warehouse because employees were being overcome with heat? I don't recall exactly, but none of these guys are pro-labor.

I look at the parking lot of the Walmart down the street, & it's full of nice cars - a few beaters, but mostly nice cars. I think as many (or more) high end middle class people shop at Walmart in my area. I am upset that our community would not support the local True Hardware store enough to keep it in business after Walmart opened.

[LanternWaste]

44. I'd imagine one may even extrapolate

I'd imagine one may even extrapolate that it's bad form to criticize any choice another makes, as any choice may be rationalized by the self with almost minimal effort.

[AldoLeopold]

47. I agree...but

its only going to get worse for the poor if Ye Olde Wart of Mal isn't stood up against.

[Warpy]

48. Thank you. I've been that poor and I've hated it

and I imagine most other Wal Mart shoppers do, too. It's the retailer of next-to-last resort, one step above The Dollar Store.

Most folks would rather be paid well enough to shop in malls or little indie stores that have more durable clothing and union grocery stores that have better meat and produce.

Most Wal Mart shoppers no longer have a choice.

[rrneck]

52. Wal Mart is great for bathroom breaks.

I love the idea of using their twenty million dollar building for my own personal outhouse.

[Doremus]

53. Two thoughts. First, Walmart does NOT always have the lowest prices.

#1 - WalMart oftentimes does NOT have the lowest prices. In fact, in our area, they came in with artificially lower prices to hurt the Target store that had been in our community for many years. Target closed 2 years later. With no more competition, Walmart's prices have gone up up up.

#2 - In general, consistently buying the "cheapest" of anything gets you a guaranteed trip back to the store in a few weeks or months to replace the object when it prematurely breaks/tears/wears out. In Walmart's specific case, the reason some of their items are priced so inexpensively is because they are actually made differently than the regular, normally-priced item from the same manufacturer. My hubby & I bought a Briggs & Stratton lawn mower from them one year because the price, $99, was too cheap to pass up. It didn't even last one season. The mechanic at the shop said the warranty didn't cover the broken plastic part in the carburetor that B&G replaced to make it cheaper at WM's request. Long story short, we ended up taping a sign to the mower warning folks to not buy them, and wheeling the mower into WM's garden dept. Lesson learned.

[glinda]

56. Speaking to your first point, Walmart has made it impossible for a Target to be here.

Also noticed how they bought up land in one nearby City that could have gone to a different store....but noooooo.... they bought that up and now have two Walmarts within 3 miles of each other.

[CrispyQ]

85. We had a Walmart on the south side of town for years.

Pretty small town, btw. Then about 6 years ago they wanted to move to the north end of town & open a super store. The city put in a special traffic light & some roadways. Walmart put such terrible restrictions on who could lease the previous building on the south end of town that it sat vacant for 4 years. The south end of town was dying. Small businesses went first. Then a major grocery store chain. About a year & a half ago, a mega church finally moved in & a couple of new retailers moved into the old grocery site.

Those two events have saved that end of town & I hear Sunday is a really big day!

[glinda]

100. That is horrible! Similar thing happened here but no mega-church, thank goodness.

Walmart really needs to have an epic fail soon.

[Doremus]

104. Yes, we've seen that here as well.

There is even a city not too far away that has to deal with the empty hulk of an old Walmart store that was vacated to move one mile down the road to be closer to the interstate exit.

The police force in our small city is summoned at least a dozen times a day to pick up shoplifters in our local WM. Talk about a drain on city services!

So, to address the OP: infrastructure and services aren't free. The few pennies saved (maybe) on your aspirin is more than made up by added taxes and other costs that aren't apparent unless one digs a little deeper.

[The CCC]

59. It's a rare person who has any business criticizing anyone for shopping at Walmart

The local K-Mart is closer, and there maybe 10 feet difference between the local Target and the evil Wal-Mart. The local grocery stores are less expensive when you consider quality. How much do you really want to pay for that cheap low quality shirt made in China by slaves?

[Orrex]

67. That's a pipe dream

Target is guilty of almost every corporate wrongdoing that Walmart commits, and KMart would do exactly the same if they could figure out a way to do it.

Do you really think that the slave-made shirts that you buy at Target are substantively different from the slave-made shirts that you don't buy at Walmart?

[lalalu]

62. I have said in my posts that I have options and

realize others don't. On the other hand I chose to stay in the metro area because I like having a variety of options and can avoid Walmart. I think this is also an issue of policy. The real question is why some communities welcomed Walmart with open arms.

I could understand at the beginning they did not understand what Walmart was about and the destruction it would bring. Yet when it became known there were still communities letting them in. There are also people who choose to support Walmart and they are the ones I have issue with

[mike_c]

63. yep-- cheap goods justify supporting anti-worker, anti-community corporations!

Piss on that. I'll boycott Walmart and wonder why those who don't so consistently work against their own social and economic interests, all for access to cheap consumer goods. No thank you!

[Orrex]

70. Who suggested that? Certainly not me.

Like so many others, you've convinced yourself that everyone in the country has access to a broad range of retailers, and they shop at Walmart simply because they like feeding a ravenous corporate machine. Would that it were so.

In reality, many people have fewer options than you probably think.

[mike_c]

73. if you're posting on the internet, you have access...

...to "a broad range of retailers." Frankly, only some of those are significantly better than Walmart, so doing some research is necessary if you want to buy responsibly, but no one who has internet access has limited retail choices.

I still think most folks who shop at Walmart do so for access to cheap goods, and they're perfectly willing to turn their backs on working people in order to get those cheap Chinese consumer products.

[Orrex]

75. Again, it would be nice if it were so simple

I have internet access, but not everyone does.

[mike_c]

82. well, it is certainly true that in my rural northern California town...

...the only reason to shop at Walmart is cheap goods. There are plenty of other retailers where one can buy just about everything the local Walmart sells-- several grocery stores, a Costco, Target, Sears and Kmart, locally owned clothing and other retailers-- and this is a rural area with one of the sparsest county populations in California.

Walmart doesn't usually locate their stores in places where there are few people, so it's a good bet that most places they locate have other options already in place to distribute goods to the local population-- until Wally World drives them out of business and replaces the few good jobs they provide with soul killing dead end minimum wage no benefit cheap labor.

And internet penetration is pretty deep in the U.S. I agree, the poorest of the poor often don't have reliable internet access, but Walmart's business and labor practices are so predatory that I just can't see any upside to their business model for the communities they invade. In order to provide access to affordable goods to the poor, they depend upon the broader desire-- among everyone else-- for access to cheap goods that ultimately undermines their community's retail economy.

[Orrex]

86. You make some good points

Even locally in my small community, Walmart has driven out or closed down quite a few small retailers, but as a result the residents have fewer options and don't always have the power to vote with their dollars. My community has a disproportionately older demographic, most of whom don't use the internet. And they certainly aren't going to drive 60 miles to the nearest Whole Foods or the like.

The problem is in Walmart's aggressive, bullying tactics, but once the store takes a foothold, I simply can't see holding the local residents--the victims--chiefly responsible for showing Walmart the error of its ways.

[Daemonaquila]

109. However, enough people DO have choices that they could shut down Walmart.

You keep on talking about the super-poor who'd have to travel crazy distances, and the folks who don't have Internet - but this is a tiny percentage of people who shop at Walmart. Most of the shoppers are middle class or working poor who do have other options but are as habituated to Walmart as any 20-year smoker is to cigarettes. Not one person here is going to blame the SSI recipient getting $350/mo who lives in a rural community and can only walk the couple blocks he lives from the Walmart with difficulty. But that's not the normal Walmart shopper. Trying to defend an indefensible position by asserting people are attacking a tiny demographic is a false argument. If the people with other options avoided Walmart, their stores would be ghost towns and quickly shut.

[snooper2]

98. what do you drive?

[mike_c]

163. 2007 Ford Ranger pickup....

Poor man's SUV,

My partner drives a 1992 Explorer.

[snooper2]

164. well, you were going on about cheap consumer goods...

I just figured

[WilmywoodNCparalegal]

64. I'm doing well financially and I do a lot of grocery shopping at Wal-Mart

in my area, they are cheaper for the same stuff I'd buy at Albertson's or Smiths. However, there are things I buy exclusively at Whole Foods or Trader Joe's. But for me, Wal-Mart is convenience as well. I shop once a week and I loathe doing it. Since I normally also buy items like socks or shampoo or pet stuff, I like to shorten my shopping time to as little as possible. Wal-Mart is a place where I can do that.

[Egalitarian Thug]

108. Then, you are the problem personified. Congratulations. n/t

[HappyMe]

117. I think of it this way -

it isn't my money. I'm not willing to tell anybody how and where they should spend their hard earned dollars.

[Kali]

68. oh boy a wallmart thread!

I despise them and try to avoid shopping there. I agree people should not criticize as it is often the only option left in dying small towns. I am a cheapskate and have the time to do comparison shopping for my usual groceries. I have access to a local independant, two safeways and a walmart in the two nearest towns. walmart is the place I usually get cheap tea, creamer, sugar, salt, saltine crackers and bulk mayo. also their potatoes are sometimes cheaper as is occasionally butter.

their meat, other dairy, and most produce is either higher or much lower quality than safeway. the local independant is always better for Mexican type goods, produce, occasionally cheese and chicken.

The "plus" of walmart is time savings because what you need is there when you need to get some shoes and underwear along with a few grocery items and you don't have the luxury of hitting multiple stops before you have to get home to cook and tend a family or house after working some shit job all day.

I avoid walmart when I can, because they do suck, and a lot of their merchandise is shitty too, but when you are far from other options they do tend to bridge the gap of doing without or waiting until the next trip to the big city.

[Systematic Chaos]

78. We spend small amounts at Wal-Mart nearly every month, because it saves us a lot of money.

In our local area there is a completely shitty Albertson's store which is overpriced. There are also two dollar stores, but much of their product is of low quality. That leaves us with Target, which is cheap on a lot of food items but has no fresh produce, or Wal-Mart which has excellent prices on bags of frozen veggies and things like that. Excellent prices as in less than half the cost of the same thing at Albertson's.

We do what we have to do to stretch our very limited budget. If ever we find ourselves in a comfortable middle class or better situation from hitting a lottery or something, we'll shop very differently, I'm sure. Until then we don't have a lot of options.

[ashling]

89. Got a car battery from Wal Mart a couple of years ago

Battery was dead and they were the only place open around here. - it was after dark and all of the other places rolled up at 5 PM
I am in a small town near Ft. Worth Tx

We also had the alternator checked. My wife and I were talking to the service person who had commented on some of our bumper stickers. So anyway, we started talking about Wal Mart and LGBT. The service lady was gay and said that there were a lot of gay employees at that store and management was really good . She said that it had been tough there 10 or 15 years ago, but that from an LGBT standpoint, things were going well there.

Just passing that along.

[immortal twinkies]

91. And what's even more is that they proudly state that they

shop at Target! Non-unioned Target!

"Cheap crap from China" is EVERY. WHERE. And I have actually found a fair amount of items from Wal-Mart made in the good ole USofA! Don't get it twisted, however--I am NOT swooning over Mall-Wart. Simply putting it out in the Universe, as it were.

This typical denouncing of Mall-Wart and uplifting Tar-ZHAY is class warfare and nothing more. Peace out.

[HiPointDem]

97. purpose of targeting walmart & touting target (or whatever) isn't that the others have fewer

imports. it's that walmart is bigger than all of its competitors combined; it's the market leader, and its practices (such as asking its suppliers for cheaper prices every contract) literally force its competitors to follow suit.

purpose of boycotting is to break its market dominance/power instead of adding to it.

that's not class warfare. at least not directed against the poor.

[libdem4life]

93. Walmart ruined the Midwest. Visited every year for decades. Little towns as good as shut down.

Blocks of formerly beautiful Main Street brick storefronts, even multi-story...boarded up. Local stores, small manufacturing, market for local food sources, jobs, social cohesiveness, extended families, common religious values dried up. Sears usually had a catalog store.

So, I don't "buy it" that Walmart (big box stores) are cheaper in the long run. One of the final nails in the coffin of the shift to urbanism, loss of rural property values, loss of the bright and creative youth to "the city". At least their employees can use their food stamps when their shift ends.

I spoke with a marketing expert once about big box stores...he said they routinely priced 33.3% of the items at Sale Price, 33.3% at Average Profit Price, and 33.3% at Above Profit Price to balance out the Sale Price. And that most products were in that rotation. Also, the wide selection of products resulted in most purchasing items (impulse purchases) they had not come in to purchase or did not need.

Sam Walton is not a billionare from consumers saving a small percentage on their shopping lists. A more appropriate name is
CheapChinaMart.

[apocalypsehow]

94. Agreed. Rec. n/t.

[aandegoons]

95. Perfection

The enemy of good and the general of inaction.

[ohheckyeah]

101. Some people have to look down on other

people for something in order to feel good about themselves.

[elfin]

102. My personal policy- when I MUST shop the Wal

I try to figure out the cost benefit, if any, and contribute that amount rounded up to the local food pantry and/or public library.

I know that I am fortunate enough to be able to buy goods at other places for a bit more money, but sometimes in a smaller market, the Wal is the only choice.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

103. I should buy groceries at Dollar General?

That's the only store in town.
20 miles either direction to wallyworld, kroger or HEB.
50 miles to Target.
150 miles and an overnite hotel stay to Costco.

When I was a kid there were 2 family grocery stores in this little town. Now you have to go to the county seat. Their downtowns are dead too.

It's not about being poor, it's about driving all over hell, in my case. Some folks have to drive a lot farther than I do.

[justiceischeap]

110. My folks live in the a very tiny town in MO

and the have a local grocery store where they can go buy groceries but the closest thing for clothing is a Wal-Mart 20 miles away. My mom has Parkinson's and my Dad is going blind--I can't encourage them to drive another 20 miles to go to a Target when me or my sister has to help them pay their yearly property tax bill. They do have a Dollar General about 15 minutes from them. The whole reason my folks bought property in this little out of the way town is it was the only place they could afford it and when people live in very rural areas, this is their lot in life.

[Daemonaquila]

111. I know of very few towns in Texas where you have a Walmart but no HEB.

In my rural part of Texas, we also have to go 15 miles+ unless we want to shop at Dollar General or get gouged to death by the local Lowe's, where prices on many items (if you can get them, and they aren't already spoiled) are double what you can get at a decent store. But every town in my neck of the woods has a HEB if it has a Walmart, and most have an HEB but NO Walmart. There are obviously going to be exceptions to the rule, and nobody is going to blame a person for using their only option when that's all they've got. However, nobody is getting cheaper goods at Walmart than at HEB. Virtually every pharmacy has a similar $4 or $5 prescription plan. For most people, there just isn't a good excuse.

[Tom Ripley]

150. Dollar General is where many WalMart employees do buy their groceries...

because they are unable to afford the prices even at the hellholes where they labor.

[gollygee]

112. I have mixed thoughts here

First, yeah I get that a lot of people are struggling and go to Walmart to get the absolute cheapest of whatever they can. If you're poor, concern over what store you're going to shop at for political reasons might very well not be on your radar. You have to keep yourself and your family in food, clothing, and shelter before you can worry beyond that. I would never get upset with anyone for shopping at Walmart.

But I disagree that you have to boycott any vendor of Walmart to boycott Walmart. If a company sells more of things at stores other than Walmart, and fewer of the same thing at Walmart, that sends a good message too. I can understand why some people shop at Walmart and at the same time recognize that I DO have a choice and it IS on my radar, and I'm going to do what I am able to do.

Also, as I said upthread, it often isn't actually the same merchandise. Many vendors, from food to clothing to housewares to home appliances to tools, alter their product to make a cheaper version for Walmart. My brother worked at a company that made something that had internal metal parts for it's mechanical workings, but the one they made for Walmart had internal plastic parts. It was otherwise identical. Changes are made for much of what they sell. That wouldn't bother me if they would sell it as a different and less substantial item at a lower price, rather than pretending that it is the same item at a lower price.

[Whisp]

115. very much agree. snobbishness doesn't look good on anyone.

and I consider whoever would criticize someone for something like that, just a big snob, Nosey Parker busybody snob.

there.

[TexasBushwhacker]

124. I would never criticize someone else for shopping there

I've shopped there a bit and I know their prices are cheaper on some things. I have chosen not to give them my business anymore and if someone asked me, I could explain to them why, but it's a free country.

[NuttyFluffers]

126. if you respirate you too foster pain in this existence and are a party to all its ills.

[patrice]

128. None of that makes it right, for the workers or for those kinds of customers, they lick the hand

that holds the spiked choke chains around their necks.

All people should free themselves, workers and customers.

I'm pretty shocked that you don't support the fact that people, workers or customers, are responsible for one another, so though the workers suffer for their rights and even get fired, customers can't be expected to suffer for anyone.

.........................

Didn't you tell me once, TTE, that there'd be nothing but savagery if it weren't for Western Civilization?

[Orrex]

130. None of what you wrote contradicts any of what I wrote

[patrice]

134. Perhaps I should make myself clearer: of all of those who shouldn't shop there working poor are

the ones with the most moral responsibility to respect the workers' struggle, because the rest of us need them to show us the way. We need them to show everyone how important all of this is.

Those who are better off can always pay a few dollars more elsewhere and be just as "merry", but when those who can't do that CHANGE their behaviors to address the thing that imposes economic injustice on everyone, that means something much more significant than what the rest of us do.

[Orrex]

136. At the end of the day, the working poor still need to feed and clothe their children

If this requires them to shop at Walmart, then so be it. They can respect the workers' struggle while still accepting the necessity of shopping there.

[patrice]

129. It's a SHAME that these customers you refer to don't see that the workers' struggle is for THEM too.

[Orrex]

131. It's an equal shame that people have to shop at Walmart in order to feed and clothe their families

I'm not inclined to beat on the people who have no viable option. Better to criticize the corporation (and its corporate accomplices) instead.

[doc03]

132. I have no problem criticizing most people that shop at Walmart

In most cases they have other options and honestly I don't see where they are any cheaper in most cases. I don't understand what buying from another vendor that sells to Walmart is endorsing their product. If I buy a Sony TV at Best Buy I am somehow endorsing Walmart?
I know people that have worked their entire lives on union jobs but they are ageist Walmart employees having a union because their prices will go up.

[Orrex]

135. It's like this

If you criticize a person for shopping at Walmart but fail to criticize vendors that supply Walmart, then you are holding the individual to a higher standard than you are setting for the company.

You are free to buy that Sony TV from Best Buy or wherever. I'm simply stating that it's inconsistent to criticize an individual for doing something (i.e., supporting Walmart) that you don't criticize the corporation for doing.

[doc03]

142. Walmart sells damn near every product so if I buy something at

another store that Walmart also sells I am inconsistent. That doesn't make a damn bit of sense to me. I live in a rural area and there are many alternatives to Walmart and their prices are not any higher. My local IGA store has cheaper and much better local grown meat and produce. There are HH Gregg, Best Buy, Tractor Supply, Rural King, Kroger, K Mart, Sears, JC Penney and smaller regional chain stores that have much better service and competitive prices..

[Orrex]

148. No, I'd say that you've stated it almost exactly

Walmart sells damn near every product so if I buy something at another store that Walmart also sells I am inconsistent.

Sort of. You're only inconsistent if you also criticize people for shopping at Walmart.

Remember, those vendors are free to choose not to sell at Walmart.

[doc03]

151. Sure not logical to me.

We can't criticize anyone for shopping at Walmart. I can't go to another store and buy a Sony TV I am somehow supporting Walmart. If I go to Kroger and buy meat that comes from the same vendor that supplies Walmart the vendor is guilty of something. I can't go buy anything at another store that is also sold at Walmart. If the employees go on strike am I supposed to shop there anyway? Do you approve of their labor and business practices? Following your logic I guess we should all just shop at Walmart so every other business is forced to close.
I just don't get your point at all. Who are you a member of the Walton family?

[Orrex]

156. Oh come on. You were so close to getting it.

I didn't say that you can't shop at Walmart, and I didn't say that you can't buy from vendors who sell their products theouh Walmart. Nowhere have I made either assertion.

Instead, I've pointed out that it is hypocritical to criticize individuals for doing business with Walmart without aknowledging that vendors who do business with Walmart are at least equally deserving of that criticism.

The part that you're not understanding has nothing to do with what I've been saying, so I can't really help you with that bit.

[gollygee]

158. I disagree with this

Walmart is such a huge part of the market that companies can't afford to not sell there. They have to stay in business and they'd lose too big a part of the market share.

But if they sell a lot fewer of whatever at Walmart, and a lot more elsewhere, because people are boycotting Walmart, that sends a message to them and at some point they might be able to stop selling there. Walmart has unfair policies with their suppliers too and I bet a lot would like to not sell there if the option really existed. But that is what prompts them to alter the Walmart version of their products (for the worse.) If you buy X at Walmart, and X at any other store, it very likely is different in some way - made cheaper to meet the price Walmart forced the vendor to sell at.

[Orrex]

161. I would say that you have likewise stated it almost exactly

Walmart is such a huge part of the market that companies can't afford to not sell there. They have to stay in business and they'd lose too big a part of the market share.

I see no distinction between defending a company that "has no choice but to deal with Walmart" (my phrasing) and defending a person who has no choice but to deal with Walmart. Any arguments about damaged market share and/or access to consumers can likewise be used to justify--with equal validity--to consumers, especially those of low income.

At the very least, if we're going to give corporations a pass because they "have to deal with Walmart" (again, my phrasing), then it seems to me that we must likewise give individuals a pass if they have to deal with Walmart.

Sure, individuals can go to other retailers or can shop online. Just like corporations can sell through other retailers and sell online.


Again, I'm not saying that people must shop at Walmart or that they can't patronize vendors that supply Walmart; I'm simply stating that people who do opt to patronize those corporations should be less quick to criticize/condemn people whose circumstances require them to shop at Walmart.

[gollygee]

162. Oh well I do agree with that part

In my response to your OP, I said that people who are focused on feeding their families can't always afford to put the bigger picture of labor, the environment, etc., in the foreground. I can do what I can do, but I'm in a different financial position from a lot of people, and I can't blame them for what they do based on my experience and circumstances.

Still I can boycott Walmart without boycotting the vendors of Walmart and I don't believe there is any inconsistency there.

[Zoeisright]

137. Nope. I can criticize my wealthy relatives for doing it.

And Walmart is a predatory piece of shit. The fewer people who shop there, the better. I'll keep on criticizing.

[Orrex]

139. Fine. But criticize Coca-Cola, Sony, Revlon, General Mills et al

Otherwise you're just being hypocritical.

[flvegan]

140. I agree with the premise of your OP subject

Your first paragraph is a fail to me.

I don't think you meant it that way, and I think I get your point, but your verbiage is wrong. And I agree totally with your second and third paragraphs.

[cynatnite]

141. When you have everything you could possibly need in one store...

why shop elsewhere?

In our Walmart we can get 30-40% of items cheaper there than other stores. So, why look around for other cheaper things when the rest of what you might need is right exactly where you are at?

[bettyellen]

144. factor in that you're paying for their food stamps and medicare too.

[cynatnite]

147. Yes, true. I'm pointing out that some will buy because of convenience...not price. n/t

[Hippo_Tron]

143. Crossing a picket line is different than patronizing a vendor who sells at Wal-Mart

But I do agree that there are people for whom there are literally no viable alternatives. What I'd simply say to people is ask yourself if it's really beyond your means to not shop at Wal-Mart for a couple of weeks while this whole dispute continues. And if it is the case that you have no affordable alternative, then I accept that and you'll get no judgment from me.

Sometimes you have to do what you have to do.

[Canuckistanian]

145. The evil here is that some people are forced to shop at Walwart

When you're counting pennies, you have to make some hard decisions.

And with the dwindling choices for shopping these days, I'm not surprised.

Walmart is the only store in some communities.

We have to FIGHT for alternatives for the poor. And that includes cheaper LOCAL sources.

[bhikkhu]

146. Its run by filthy-rich asshats, who treat their employees like crap

pay them (as a matter of policy), wages something below the poverty line so they can qualify for government assistance, and then support candidates for office who openly despise anyone who needs government assistance. I'm sure the owners despise their customers as well, and from what I've heard their attitudes run like a vein throughout the corporate management, right down to the store level.

I don't shop their because they're the worst of the worst, and its a ridiculous GOP-worthy twisting of words to make anything of that into an "attack on the poor".

[quaker bill]

157. I have been in a Wal Mart

but only once. I had to see what it was all about. I was not all that impressed. My budget shopping involves trips to Costco, which is closer to the house and generally less expensive than Wal Mart with better stuff. (I hear that they pay their employees better as well)

[sofa king]

165. Lemme tell you about my Wal Mart.

After almost completely cornering the hunting and fishing markets for fifty miles around, my Wal Mart discovered that they could eliminate the position of their one sporting goods guy and simply tell thousands of hunters that their "system is down," and that they cannot issue hunting licenses anymore.

(They learned this trick in the aftermath of the derecho that rolled through this summer, when nobody at Wal Mart could figure out that their computer had to be restarted--for six weeks.)

So those hunters are still buying all their hunting goods at Wal Mart, because they're already there and it's cheaper, and then descending upon the handful of actual outdoor shops that remain and wasting hours of their time every day completing their no-profit, time-wasting regulatory requirements. Many of them don't get that far, give up, go hunting anyway, and are getting busted.

Even after killing off almost all of their competition, Wal Mart has still found a way to shift the regulatory burden onto their competitors, and the penalties onto the individuals.

I really dislike Wal Mart these days. I wish the hunters advocacy groups would roll in and smack 'em, but they're not actual hunter advocacy groups, just front organizations for the GOP, who does not give a damn about actual hunters.

Just one more way The Man screws over their most loyal constituents. To a certain extent, the hunters deserve it, because it was of course they who created this state of affairs and they who repeatedly voted to make it inexorable and permanent. But it is still harmful, still damaging to society, and still highly profitable for the evil entity that created the state of affairs in the first place.

Many of those people hunt because it's the only meat they're going to eat this winter. When they get hungry enough, they're going to come out of the forest, with their rifles.

[99Forever]

173. So the basic premise of this ridiculous OP is...

Last edited Wed Nov 21, 2012, 06:03 PM - Edit history (1)

.. that if Wallyworld sells a brand, it's poison everywhere else.


That about it, pal?


That's some stupid stuff right there, i don't care who you are.

[Orrex]

175. Well, I don't give a shit who you are either, pal

Since you can't understand the OP, I'll try again in simpler terms:

You are being inconsistent if you criticize people for doing business with Walmart if you don't likewise criticize corporations for doing business with Walmart.


Here's the part that may be difficult for you to grasp for some reason: Walmart's choice to sell a brand doesn't "poison" that brand. Instead, the vendor's choice to sell the product at Walmart necessarily subjects the vendor to the same criticism that would be directed at a consumer who chooses to shop at Walmart.

Would it help you if I limited myself to one-syllable words? Should I draw a picture for you? What is it, exactly, that's so hard for you to comprehend?

[99Forever]

182. I understand EXACTLY what you were attempting and failing to do.

What you didn't do, is make a decent case for what you wanted. Considering that virtually EVERY national brand has SOME presence in Wallyworld, what you propose is not just fucking ridiculous, it's impossible in the modern business world.


Throw some more juvenile insults at me, that'll make your case for you.

[Orrex]

184. I have already made my case, and and you srarted the juvenile insults, pal

You've demonstrated clearly in two posts so far that you don't actually get it, while simultaneously insisting that you do.

Care to try for three, pal?

[99Forever]

185. I get that..

.. you no clue as to how real world businesses operate. You're a fool. Bub bye.

[Orrex]

186. So you chimed in on the thread simply to make an ass of yourself?

Mission accomplished.

[Jasana]

174. I have never shopped at WalMart

I will never shop at WalMart and I am lucky to have that choice. When WalMart moves into an area, they destroy all the smaller local businesses making it sometimes impossible for people to find any other adequate place to shop. I understand this as part of the problem but if you have any other choice than shop at WalMart on Black Friday... do it.

We need to get these people unionized. They need better pay, better working conditions, better hours, healthcare and they need to get off food stamps. If that happens, be sure prices will rise as a result. I am willing to pay that difference in order to know that the workers there are being treated fairly. Until that happens, I will boycott WalMart. I am lucky I have that choice. I wish the WalMart workers well.

[TrogL]

176. The damn cats will only eat their generic cat food

Dont blame them. It's actually pretty good

[peace13]

179. Walmart beats up on the poor!

They cost communities millions with low paying jobs that require the community to supply services to its employees. It is a proven fact that while you appear to save money shopping at Walmart your pocket is being picked. The only folks who make out on this deal is Walmart!

Take a minute and read here to understand.

What it really costs when Walmart comes to town
http://www.mnn.com/money/sustainable-business-practices/stories/what-it-really-costs-when-walmart-comes-to-town#

[Orrex]

181. Everyone knows that

The problem is that the choice is often "buy the thing you need at Walmart" or "do without the thing that you need." Some in this thread have asserted that there are always other choices, but I maintain that that is incorrect.

Also, I asserted in my OP that there are tons of reasons not to shop at Walmart. I don't know why people keep trying to reassert that point as if it weren't already universally known.