Public nudity ban eyed in fed-up San Francisco

[Drale]

SAN FRANCISCO (AP) — San Francisco may be getting ready to shed its image as a city where anything goes, including clothing.

City lawmakers are scheduled to vote Tuesday on an ordinance that would prohibit nudity in most public places, a blanket ban that represents an escalation of a two-year tiff between a devoted group of men who strut their stuff through the city's famously gay Castro District and the supervisor who represents the area.

Supervisor Scott Wiener's proposal would make it illegal for a person over the age of 5 to "expose his or her genitals, perineum or anal region on any public street, sidewalk, street median, parklet or plaza" or while using public transit.

http://news.yahoo.com/public-nudity-ban-eyed-fed-san-francisco-191355793.html

I think they should ban public nudity. If you want to be a nudest do it on your own property or find a nudist park, I really don't want to see your "business" swinging around when I'm eating out with my family. Thats just my opinion, I'm not afraid of nudity or the human body but there is a time and place for everything and getting gas down as the local shell is not the place to be nude.

[dlwickham]

1. public nudity gets old really fast

I think too many do it simply for shock value

sorry but in our society, we put clothes on if we're going out in public

stay naked in your own home or a nudist only setting

[CreekDog]

75. I'm not a Puritan, but this whole dustup is over the same 10 or so guys that are as annoying as hell

Last edited Sun Nov 18, 2012, 11:42 PM - Edit history (1)

we shouldn't need a law for them, but if that's what it takes then SF should deal with them and the problem.

they are a nuisance. they put themselves in obvious places to shock and get noticed by being in the way.

we have all kinds of rules in SF, where you can park, noise ordinances, littering laws, etc.

we seem to need one --though we shouldn't.

[dlwickham]

100. I used to live and work in SF

these people are a nuisance and it's unfortunate that the board of supervisors have to get involved with this but what can they do; they've been ignoring it for too long and people are pissed off about it

[PavePusher]

165. "these people are a nuisance"?

How, exactly? Are they following you around? Getting in your way? Are you tripping over them in any way, shape or form? (Heh... )

[johnq45]

2. A guy named Weiner...................

Wants people to stop showing their genitals in public. The last guy named Weiner was sending pictures of his junk on Twitter! You just can't make this shit up!

[OrwellwasRight]

6. My first thought as well!

A very Beavis and Butthead moment: "huh huh, he said weiner, huh"

[mindwalker_i]

126. Just as long as

you don't threaten my bunghole, we'll be fine

[trof]

80. Weiner says: "NO Weiners!"

[Kennah]

95. HEH! He makes the Wiener jokes! n/t

[Yavin4]

164. Does This Mean That He Has To Wear A Burka in Public?

Can't show Weiner.

[marmar]

3. I guess I just don't see the big deal, but then again, I don't have kids.

[Care Acutely]

25. Reproduction has nothing to do with somebody's hairy asshole ruining a perfectly

good breakfast experience.


Gross.

[CAG]

40. thanks for the visual there.....nt

[Care Acutely]

52. *tips cap*

I does what I can.

[Bucky]

194. If people can't handle it being typed, it's not cool to have it in the flesh

I mean, "in person"

[PavePusher]

166. So, you never look at dogs, I presume..... n/t

[demosincebirth]

82. I don't have kids either, but how would you feel if while eating your lunch outdoors, at a table,

and some hairy naked guy plops his ass next to you on the bench that you are eating at...or maybe sits across from you with his whole "pincheria" hanging out, as you're taking your first bite of that good sandwich you were thinking of eating all morning?

[marmar]

86. Honestly, I wouldn't care. Doesn't bother me.

I've had lunch in Vondelpark in Amsterdam and the Tiergarten in Berlin with naked people around. Live and let live.

[demosincebirth]

142. Good for you nt

[snagglepuss]

152. Actually it is a serious health hazard. A naked butt on chairs and benches can desposit

fecal matter.

[marmar]

154. So can birds and squirrels.

[Luminous Animal]

156. As has been stated several times, towels are required when sitting down.

Also, genitals must be covered up in a retail establishment.

[ZombieHorde]

92. I have kids and public nudity doesn't concern me at all.

I would ban public country music over public nudity.

[marmar]

94. ROFL....Ain't that the truth?

[snagglepuss]

153. So fecal matter shed on a bench that your kids use doesn't concern you?

[Luminous Animal]

157. Towels are required. By the way, there is fecal bacteria everywhere...

Clothing doesn't contain it.

[ZombieHorde]

158. Sure, but my kids go to school, and how well do you think the kids at school

wash their hands after using the bathroom? I think they are exposed to a lot of nasty stuff very often. I think we all are.

[HughBeaumont]

168. HA! Most Ohio restaurants wouldn't know what to do!!

We cant's LIVE without our Blake Shelton!

[ZombieHorde]

175. Was this meant to be a reply to my post?

If so, then I am confused.

[HughBeaumont]

179. Your call for banning public country music?

[ZombieHorde]

181. Oh crap, I forgot that I wrote that bit. I guess I should have gone back and read what

I have written, as opposed to relying on my poor memory. Sorry!

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

205. I'll sign that petition! But only if real, old country music is excluded. Nothing wrong with Woody

Guthrie, Hank Williams, Sr., etc.

[Odin2005]

4. Ironic that the guy's last name is Wiener.

That said, I agree with the ban. Most nudists seem to be the exact people you do NOT want to see naked.

[bluestate10]

18. Yeah. Exactly. Why don't smoking hot people walk around nude in public? nt

[fightthegoodfightnow]

20. Which Is It?

Post 16 or post 18?

[uppityperson]

21. 18 agrees they should ban public nudity. So does 16. What is your point?

Which Is It?

Post 16 or post 18?

[fightthegoodfightnow]

24. Right

You want hot people nude but then you don't want people nude. Which is it?

[uppityperson]

27. No me. Keep up. Seems an odd point to pick on. "i agree" "i agree". hmmm.

I agree with the ban
18. Yeah. Exactly.

I think they should ban public nudity.
16. I agree. nt

Personally I don't care if people walk around nude. We all have bodies and meh.

[fightthegoodfightnow]

36. Ok.

Apologies.

[Voice for Peace]

50. "we all have bodies and meh"

exactly

[Ruby the Liberal]

5. Good.

If I want to see your junk, I'll ask.

[OrwellwasRight]

7. Agree.

Save it for special occasions!

[ToxMarz]

55. There's a plan

Walk around in public and ask to see people's junk. Let me know how that works out for you.

[fightthegoodfightnow]

8. I Can Beat That

I don't want to hear your children swinging around and screaming when I eat.

I'll close my ears if you close your eyes.

[Deep13]

11. +1

[ZombieHorde]

93. Good point. I think both should be allowed. nt

[Brother Buzz]

9. The coldest winter I ever spent was a summer in San Francisco

The coolest thing Mark Twain never said.

[Deep13]

10. perineum?

Anyway, I don't think there is anything inherently shameful about the human body. While I don't particularly want to see--er--stuff, I don't think it ought to be a crime. As far as children go, I don't think it is corrupting for them to see, er, stuff, since they have stuff anyway. And I'd rather deal with a few awkward questions than have them grow up thinking that something about them is shameful.

[Drale]

13. It shouldn't be a crime but

it would be a ticketable offense like urinating in public.

[Deep13]

23. Well, a ticketable offense is a low-grade crime. nt

[ismnotwasm]

17. That perineum-- word

I was going to say part-- kinda took me aback. Showing it would take a bit of effort.


As long as people behave themselves, nudity isn't so bad. Silly at times.

[Deep13]

26. I looked it up.

'Taint one thing and 'taint the other.

[ismnotwasm]

44. Heh

Oldie but a goodie

[alcibiades_mystery]

46. What you see in the Castro is precisely people making that effort

In any case, all this is about housing prices in the Castro. Some people who bought cheap in the 70's want to sell, and the buyers at those prices are rich yuppies with broods. The ironic part about all of this is that it's coming precisely from the old guard in the Castro itself. Some people wanna move to Sausalito, I guess, and if you want to move to Sausalito, you want less sausage on Cumberland.

[ismnotwasm]

51. Oh, the puns in this topic

Are endless.

I wouldn't put people in the process of exposing their perineum as " behaving themselves" myself.

[anarch]

38. I demand the right to expose my perineum!

Dammit, I can't afford new pants.

[ellisonz]

57. I had to wikipedia it.

And I'm still not sure what exactly I'm looking at

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perineum

[ismnotwasm]

67. Generally, In nurse speak

It includes the area below the mon pubis, around and behind the vagina and utethra, around and behind the testicles and penis, reaching all the way to the anus. It's delicate, easlily irritated tissue.

[Deep13]

112. That's not a very good place for delicate, easily irritated tissue.

Yet another design flaw!

[ismnotwasm]

120. Why underwear is a GOOD invention

[Deep13]

85. That drawing made me change my mind...

I want all nudity banned always, even in the bath tub!

I need the brain bleach!

[Behind the Aegis]

118. Taint nothing to worry about, friend.

(If you don't get the joke, PM me.)

[ellisonz]

119. This is what happens when they cut funding for sex education.

[Recursion]

182. The taint, or grundle (nt)

[pinboy3niner]

139. It's a tickleable offense!

Just ask Elmo.

[A HERETIC I AM]

12. We're talking about the Castro here...

To those of you on this thread who are worried someone (including yourselves) might be offended by seeing a naked man;


It's like going to Bourbon street and being shocked to find drunk people.

Who the fuck goes to the Castro district for a family night out dining?

[Beaverhausen]

39. I drove through there during a visit to SF last year

I wasn't intending to go there, but it was on the way to where I was going. My 3 year old Grandson was in the car.

I saw those guys. I'm not a prude but it was really not a pretty sight. And no, I don't have to look at drunk people genitals when I go to Bourbon Street.

[tabasco]

42. Then go a different way next time.

Seems easier than passing a law.

[Luminous Animal]

59. I raised a kid in the Castro... my neighbors have two little ones... We go out family night dining

regularly. The Castro is also where we live and shop. That said, neither my family nor any other family that I know minds the nudity. The straight newbie wealthy families that are moving in don't appreciate the neighborhood... warts and all.

[dem4ward]

14. Men can't beat wiener on the streets...

[RKP5637]

102. Keep that wiener covered in a bun - new law!

[dem4ward]

143. City ordinance rule 42b-w "All wieners must be leashed when walked in public."

[RKP5637]

149. And licensed + a rabies shot - that oughta keep those wieners tucked in and hidden! LOL n/t

[ibegurpard]

15. there are practical reasons why we wear clothing...and then they become culturally ingrained.

One of the reasons is sanitary. People walking around naked are exposing everyone else to that...there is a reason why you wash your hands when you use the restroom.
Everyone else shouldn't have to be exposed to your germs.

This is just stupid...I have nothing against nude beaches, nude resorts, whatever...but just walking around in public in general naked is silly. These people are just rationalizing their exhibitionism with their excuses about "breaking down barriers" and "I just gotta be me."
Grow up.

[quakerboy]

35. You got halfway there, then stopped

I think once you go past the statement "then they become culturally ingrained", You are the one rationalizing.

Practical reasons for clothing are things like protection from the elements. I don't think sanitation has much to do with anything. Whether I wear cloths has nothing to do with whether I wash my hands. I doubt nudists are inherently less sanitary than anyone else. Clothing is not some sort of germ impermeable barrier. If anything, I would guess the opposite. They have lots of nooks and crannies to hide and hold anything that might want to grow, and unlike your hands, they do not get washed through the day. People sneeze on their sleeve, grubby kid hands grab handfuls of cloth, your rear end drips sweat on them. And you just drag them on from one activity to the next without sanitizing them at all.

I don't happen to be a nudist. I don't really want to be one. But your argument bothers me, as it seems to be scientific, yet on reflection, i would guess it is pseudo science, and contrary to actual facts, owing almost purely to cultural bias.

[DirkGently]

61. No problem sitting on a bus seat vacated by an exposed anus / genitals?

I'm sure I've got a cultural taboo floating in my viewpoint somewhere, but I'm not "morally" opposed to nudity. I am opposed to squeezing in an elevator with someone with their sex and excretion pathways uncovered, or sitting on a chair recently vacated by the same. I've seen the job most people do trying to use a public toilet without depositing waste all over the landscape, and nudists wouldn't have to be less clean than anyone else for this to be a problem -- they'd have to be VASTLY cleaner for it not to be.

Do you think this concern is invalid? I'm taking the scenario out to people who would want to be nude in public full-time, of course, not objecting to a bit of flesh in a parade or something.

[Luminous Animal]

64. There is fecal bacteria all over your grocery cart handles. It is ubiquitous.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/yourlife/health/2011-03-02-grocerycarts_N.htm

Researchers say they actually found more fecal bacteria on grocery cart handles than you would typically find in a bathroom, mainly because bathrooms are disinfected more often than shopping carts.

[DirkGently]

77. Not the same as bodily fluids, fecal matter, hpv lesions.

I'm not going much further down this road, because the I'm not willing to describe in much further detail what you'd be sitting in if you followed a sweaty nude person on a bus seat, but it'd be the same things you see on a public toilet seat or the inside of undergarments. Are we okay with "skid marks" on public seating areas?

Bacteria is ubiquitous, yes, but the physical materials and fluids that would directly transfer from exposed organs are not the same. There would be odor, and solid and fluid waste in volumes vastly different from the microscopic levels on doorhandles, and vastly more bacteria as well. We wear undergarments because the things that happen beneath them would often ruin a suit of clothes. How would a restaurant booth, bar stool, or taxicab fair better?

I don't see how that can be reasonably disputed.

[snagglepuss]

155. DING DING DING. We have a winner. given the serious helath hazard, I am stunned

the City hasn't acted sooner. I have no issue with nudity but it should be relegated to nudist camps because people sign up knowing of the risks.

[Luminous Animal]

159. Not once has this issue been addressed as a health hazard... because it isn't.

[hughee99]

79. But where would they find more fecal bacteria, on a grocery cart handle, or an ass hole?

I understand radiation is everywhere, but I don't want uranium in my back yard.

[Luminous Animal]

81. Are you planning on probing a nudist's asshole? Fecal matter is already in your own backyard..

Banning nudity won't change that.

[hughee99]

111. It's not quite the same when they give an old person their seat on the bus on a hot day. n/t

[CaliforniaHiker]

114. That does not mean that they can't be transfered from a bare rear end

Some people don't wash their hands well after using the bathroom, that is an unfortunate fact. Once they have touched an object the bacteria continue to multiply. Unfortunate fact. However, how many people wash their nether regions with antibacterial soap every time they use the restroom? I imagine the number is very low. Therefore, the average rear end has more fecal bacteria than the average set of hands. I know that I can wipe down a cart handle with an antibacterial wipe, which many stores even provide for free. I don't feel that I should have to wipe down every surface I sit on because somebody's bare behind may have sat on it.

[Luminous Animal]

127. Fecal bacteria is everywhere. And two dozen naked guys walking around a

half mile by half mile section of one city is not the problem. You may wipe down that cart handle but you are not wiping down that door handle (even in your own house) or the booth at Denny's or that bowling ball, or that coffee lid, or the electronic pen at the grocery store, or the buttons at your ATM, or the money dispensed. Naked people aren't rubbing their rear ends on any of these things. And you have no evidence that their rear ends aren't as clean as a whistle. It is fully clothed people who are day in and day out, wiping their poop on everything that you touch. Even the simple act of pooping in your own bathroom exposes fecal bacteria to all the members of your family via their toothbrush.

Clothing does not protect you from the "threat" of fecal bacteria. You've been exposed to it nearly every day of your life on restaurant chairs and tables, take out containers, public park benches, airplane and bus seats, amusement park trams, at home, at the grocery store, the money that you handle... every single surface that the public has access to may be contaminated with fecal bacteria. Day in and day out, you are wallowing in it. It is the norm, not the exception.

[PavePusher]

167. Hey now, don't bring that real science stuff around here.....

It'll damage the children.

Or something...

[quakerboy]

89. Not overly.

I don't suspect that its much different than sitting there any other time. If basic clothing is going to protect me, then mine will do just fine. And if, as I suspect, it doesn't, then it makes no difference anyway.

I also suspect that most nudists do a better job being clean.. seeing as they don't happen to have any clothing to hide what they haven't taken care of.

Clothing is bacteria and virus permeable, to the best of my knowledge. I really don't think there is a scientific difference between a bus seat of a nudist and anyone else, except perhaps a cultural yuck factor. I could be wrong, If this goes much further I might just have to see if anyones done actual research on the issue.

[Mariana]

117. In some states (and probably in all, but I can't say that for sure)

the law requires people to wear underwear when trying on clothes in a store. That's reasonable and a good thing. Similarly, it would be reasonable and a good thing to make it illegal for people's naked asses to directly contact any public seating, walls, railings, etc.

[Science Geek]

144. The law presently states...

... that one may NOT sit naked on a bench, chair, or any other surface. One must put down a towel.

[Deep13]

203. I think most of those germs grow in warm, dark, damp, enclosed places.

Exposure to air and light might eliminate the germs.

[Iggy]

96. uhh, are the nudists in San Francisco

defecating on the sidewalk or street?

No? then I don't see what is "unsanitary" about it.

[snooper2]

110. I don't think so but sometimes things do leak

[Iggy]

191. As I thought...

the whining about this being "unsanitary" is balony.. thanks for clearing it up.

[Nye Bevan]

147. When they don't wipe their asses properly,

dried up crusted faeces will be flaking off all around town.

[PavePusher]

171. One-word solution:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bidet

[kstewart33]

106. Amen. nt

[bluestate10]

16. I agree. nt

[sellitman]

19. Much ado about nothing.

Really.

[Cleita]

22. Yeah, nudity in public is a bit much other than at the beach or at a pool.

I don't even like to see men without shirts unless it's at the beach, especially if you are in an eating place. People who like to be naked otherwise should do it in the privacy of their homes.

[hedgehog]

28. Who has the time and money to be able to stroll around in the nude?

I mean, do they wear clothes to their day job? to the grocery store? It must be awkward trying to carry a wallet with no pants.

[Drale]

31. I've been to a nude beach once

it was a girlfriends idea and it was very awkward for me, but a ton of people walk around with fanny-packs, so they are not 100% nude.

[Nevernose]

47. I went to a nude beach near Cannes once

Penthouse Forum lied to me. The only naked people were either eight or eighty. Either way, no one I wanted to see naked.

[bettyellen]

70. because when you're an even remotely good looking female, the camera phones get whipped out....

i opened my eyes to find an ugly old married man videotaping me. Yuck.
Asshole had the nerve to ask where I was staying. Creepy shit.
Their were fewer when all they could do was gawk, so it was only the creepy guys. Now everybody has a camera phone, so you get tons of them, and you cover the boobs and flip them off. It gets tired.

[Blue_Tires]

183. Letters to Penthouse Forum lied to me about a LOT of things...

[kwassa]

198. I never would have believed this could happen to me.

[one_voice]

32. Ewww..I wouldn't shop...

in a grocery store where people were shopping nude. That has to be some sort of health violation.

I agree with you though, I would think they'd dress for work, shopping, doctors appt--well maybe not doctors appt you'd only have to get undressed once you're there --but most daily activities require clothing. Not too mention, would you really want to ride public transportation in the nude.

[DollarBillHines]

34. A bunch of out-of-shape middle-aged guys, that's who.

Those idiots are merely exhibitionists who foul the City's brand.

People here say, "It is only the Castro", but a large chunk of our tourists go there.

I've seen those guys and they just look silly.

[fightthegoodfightnow]

48. Tourist Who Go There

Right. got it.

[Luminous Animal]

62. Foul the City's brand! Hahahaha! That's what we should do. Run the city

for the tourists! Let's be one giant Fisherman's Wharf and Union Square! The Castro is a neighborhood where residents live, work, and shop. The Castro is not a tourist attraction.

If the sensibilities of the tourists is the issue, our neighborhood should do what the rich people in Sea Cliff have done, ban tourist buses.

[HiPointDem]

45. +1. I guess castro is a pretty toney address these days.

[Matariki]

29. Once a year Seattle has a parade that includes naked bicyclists

Nearly everyone loves them. I've seen families excitedly pointing them out to their kids even.

It's fun because it's a little transgressive and not something you see every day. I don't think I'd like seeing naked bicyclists every day. I'm glad the city allows it and doesn't stop them.

[GoneOffShore]

41. We have that here in Philly

Mid October - the Philly Naked Bike Ride. Almost all the riders are nude though most of them wear crash hats and shoes (I refrained from saying the "h" word).

It goes right past my house and all the neighbors and their kids come out to watch.

It's a hoot.

I wouldn't do it, because of that whole bicycle and bits thing.

[BlueMan Votes]

65. afterwards- do they sell the seats for charity?

if not- they may want to consider it.

lotta...different...kinds of people out there.

[Matariki]

99. Oh ha!

That's funny

[grantcart]

30. They should make an exception for circumcised males at Olive Garden

[fightthegoodfightnow]

37. Thank You for Making Me Laugh!

[MADem]

33. Don't they have some kind of EYESORE ordinance??

[Raine]

43. I totally agree with you. nt

[banned from Kos]

49. I think public nudity among women should be legal and possibly publicly subsidized

in some type of art grant.

[Fumesucker]

91. Would damn sure cut down on the birth rate..

[NMDemDist2]

105. !!

[Honeycombe8]

53. Most cities have bans on public nudity. I didn't know SF didn't. Why didn't/don't they? Seems odd.nt

[darkangel218]

54. OMG why would anyone wanna go to a nude beach??!

Holy shit, I don't wanna see wrinkly, hairy butts! I didn't know SF had naked beaches. Ewwwwww...

[AsahinaKimi]

56. As someone who is a resident here...

I frankly, don't get how anyone can go without clothing in this city. Its not like the tropics here. In fact with cold damp moist chilly fog, it makes it down right cold in the Summer and the Winter it rains a lot. It got to the point the city had to ban people from using their fireplaces for heating, as it spewed lots of junk into the air. But you have to know, that if people are using their fire places to stay warm, its gotta be cold enough to want to have clothes on.

Someone once pointed out to me the difference between people from Northern California and Southern California. It was the color clothes they wore, they said... Northern Californians tend to wear darker clothing, lots of sweatshirts and sweaters in grey, brown, black and Navy Blue.. where as, in Southern California people wore White, yellows, reds, orange and bright colors.

I wear a sweater nearly every day of the year when I go out..or at least bring one. You learn to bring clothing with you as you may take things off or put things on as the day goes about...


Also to note, those years I worked at Fisherman's Wharf, the hottest selling items were Sweat Hoodies.. because people came thinking our climate was like FLORIDA... its not, and as I type this... I have my space heater on.

Its crazy to go naked outside in this city.

[Luminous Animal]

60. It depends on which part of San Francisco one happens to be in. I live in the Castro & from

May - October, we have more pleasant days than not. I manage to grow tomatoes and peppers - notorious heat and sun lovers. In the Castro, it is late afternoon when the wind kicks up and the fog manages to make it over Twin Peaks when it starts getting chilly.

[AsahinaKimi]

63. I live in the Richmond district ...not far from Japantown (Nihonmachi)

As I write this now, my legs are freezing... and my space heater is on. I have heard people say that its warmer in the Mission district which is close to the Castro area. The hills of Twin Peaks seems to hold back the fog.. and I have seen it very foggy in the Sunset district as well as the outer Richmond.


This is very typical ...


Maybe you guys don't get as much of this as we do... but having lived in the Haight Asbury for a few years..it did seem warmer there..
(ugh! hated the cockroaches though in those old buildings!)

[Luminous Animal]

66. Yep. It is warmer in the Mission and Castro. I used to work near Laurel Village and almost daily

it would be 10 degrees cooler (and foggy) at work than at home and rarely warmed up. FYI, I love the Richmond district, without a car, I don't get out there enough. Why oh why is the Richmond not connected to the MUNI train and trolley system?

[AsahinaKimi]

71. Yeah that would be nice...

But you could take the Masonic bus over there..or if you are down by Market and Van Ness, take the bus and get off at Geary or Offarrell street and catch the Geary bus. There are a dozen ways to get up to Japantown... my favorite "to go" spot.



IF you like sushi, may I suggest Kushi Tsuru..

great food and very lovely people work there!

[Luminous Animal]

78. I love love Japantown! It is a mini vacation! And it is super easy for me... I hop on the 22!

Last edited Sun Nov 18, 2012, 09:34 PM - Edit history (1)

And yes, Kushi Tsuru is so good! If you ever find yourself craving sushi in the Castro, I suggest Sushi Time (http://www.sushitime-sf.com/) (tiny tiny tiny) or Eiji (http://www.yelp.com/biz/eiji-san-francisco (the house made tofu dishes are delectable. It is a great place to take vegans.)

[AsahinaKimi]

87. I used to go with friends over to the Castro...

Someone mentioned "Who would go to the Castro for dinner?" , but there are some great places to go for lunch... I don't recall places off the top of my head, but there are some great little bistros there... and places to eat. I love to go to the Mission too, because where else can you buy a burrito that is inexpensive and the size of a fire place log!!

[RandySF]

201. We eat there all the time

But every time we go, our son demands we stop at Sophie's for crepes.

[displacedtexan]

69. I'm in the Richmond District

I love the fog, and the sun is really warm here at 62-64 degrees (I wouldn't have believed that
when we moved here in August from DC). We have lots of big windows, so the house heats up naturally.

[AsahinaKimi]

74. Hey neighbor welcome to the neighbor hood!

I am closer to Japantown (Nihonmachi) and it still gets colder here..as it does towards the upper part of the Richmond district.

Outer Richmond District.

[ellisonz]

58. I'm not really sure putting them in jail is the solution. n/t

[LiberalAndProud]

68. I'm just curious, if I were to go to a restaurant in the Castro District,

would it be likely that I'd see a "No shirt, no shoes, no service" sign? Maybe that's just a Midwestern idiosyncrasy, I don't know.

[Luminous Animal]

73. No, you wouldn't. Though depending on the restaurant, 99.99% of the patrons would

wear the appropriate clothing. The bar at Castro & 17th with the near floor to ceiling plate glass windows? Perhaps a nudist or 3 wandering in from the public park at their doorstep. Poesia, on the other hand, well-dressed and smelling nice is the norm.

[LiberalAndProud]

84. Interesting.

I always thought that it was a health code thing. As it turns out, it was an anti-hippie thing. Who knew?

[larocks4552s]

72. I agree with this proposal

Public nudity should be kept to beaches

[Starry Messenger]

76. I'm in the Castro at least once a month and have never seen the nudists.

I agree with those posting above that this is probably gentrified newcomers with their noses out of joint. This is a silly. I don't know why someone would want to trot around Castro nude, since it's usually quite windy, but hey.

[JackRiddler]

108. This doesn't surprise me in the least.

So obviously a made-up issue about bullshit.

[retread]

83. I lived in The City from 1966 to 1971. It is nice to know the lawmakers have

solved most of the major problems since I have been gone and now have plenty of free time to devote to public nudity.

[bestobdii]

204. Spam deleted by gkhouston (MIR Team)

[Romulox]

88. Hard to believe this is a real issue. Doesn't SF have significant crime and homelessness?

[WinkyDink]

90. Given that seats are ALREADY ranked #1 in germ-laden restaurant items.....

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/10-germiest-places-restaurant-hint-bathroom/story?id=17728078

[Nye Bevan]

97. I see it as a hygiene issue.

Last edited Sun Nov 18, 2012, 10:39 PM - Edit history (1)

If those guys don't wipe their asses properly, I really don't want dried up crusted faeces to be flaking off all around town. And drops of urine when they forget to shake it after peeing.

Public health is more important than their right to show off their schlongs.

Here's a compromise I would support: make them cover up, but allow them to pin a photo of their cock and balls to the front of their pants. No hygiene issues, and they still get to proudly exhibit their genitals.

[lbrtbell]

98. I agree about the public health issue

Besides, there are plenty of nudist beaches, camps, and your own home, for people to go around nude.

It's like religion...do what you like, but please don't force it on me in public.

[Luminous Animal]

104. More fecal bacteria on your grocery cart handle than in a restroom...

It's not the nudity, it's personal hygiene. Putting clothes on people doesn't stop them from being filthy slobs.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/yourlife/health/2011-03-02-grocerycarts_N.htm

Researchers say they actually found more fecal bacteria on grocery cart handles than you would typically find in a bathroom, mainly because bathrooms are disinfected more often than shopping carts.

Most where ever you go and whatever you do, you are touching shit.

And FYI, enjoying nudity in any environment rarely involves being an exhibitionist. It is a personal sensual experience to walk around on a beautiful day unencumbered by seams, zippers, and buttons. Most toddlers know this and are ready to rip their clothes off with the slightest of lack of discouragement. They have to be taught shame in order for them to keep their clothes on.

[Nye Bevan]

115. But there is undoubtedly fecal matter in guy's underpants.

And if they are not wearing underpants, where is that fecal matter going to go?

[Luminous Animal]

123. On your grocery cart?

[Luminous Animal]

128. The naked folks have already been directed to sit on a towel

in public accessible venues, so their fecal matter is their own personal possession.

Thus, the bogey-man of fecal matter in regards to these naked people has been addressed and handled.

[Nye Bevan]

133. So the fat naked dudes carry around skidmarked smelly towels.

I don't think that entirely puts the hygiene issue to rest.

[Science Geek]

145. A pair of trousers is not a magical germ barrier....

Viruses and bacterias pass through the openings in in the weave of cotton or cotton-poly cloth like a baseball passes through a 50 foot opening.

Viruses and bacterias are really, really small. Opening in the weave of cloth are really, really big compared to viruses and bacteria.

Typical clothing is absolutely not a barrier to germs. Not at all.

Why do you think that people wear pressurized plastic suits in virus and germ labs? It's because normal clothing doesn't stop germs.

[PavePusher]

172. One-word solution:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bidet

[RKP5637]

101. If they're really good looking, well, OK ... but otherwise cover up! lol

[Renew Deal]

103. Weiner stiffs San Fran nudists

[JackRiddler]

107. What is wrong with you people?

The proposed SF ordnance is a disgrace. So is this thread.

Shame over the natural human body is your problem, not the nude person's. Save your clothing requirements for Branson, MO.

[Nye Bevan]

109. Don't the people of San Francisco have the right to decide

whether they want these guys to be allowed to display their hairy asses and penises in full public view? Or do you see this as a fundamental, innate civil right that should not even be brought to a vote?

[Luminous Animal]

122. I see it as a non problem. It is a dozen or so people hanging out in a mini-park for the most

Last edited Mon Nov 19, 2012, 04:23 AM - Edit history (2)

part. Usually 2-4 at any one time. There have been nudes in the Castro for decades. Straight families have, to an increasing level, started buying units here and all of a sudden it's "Ooh the gays!" I once joked to my daughter when she was 7 or younger, "You've seen more naked men in your lifetime than I saw in 30 years (the age I was when I moved to the Castro.)."

The problem isn't naked people, the problem is newcomers having no respect for a subculture of our neighborhood. Body freedom. Pantless chaps. Topiary of naked men with large schlongs. Sexy Jesus. Pantless Santa. The Sisters (who, by the way, have an amazing Halloween party for kids).

Scott Weiner has designs for higher office... his campaign was backed by corporate and commercial interests. He understands that taking action on "sexy" issues gets him more press and gives the appearance that he is taking charge. I could call his office tomorrow about the naked guys and I would get a response. On the other hand, I have called his office about services for homeless gay youth, the illegal evictions of elderly and often sick residents in his district, the loss of locally owned businesses due to gross rent increases that open the door for corporate franchises (and landlords sit on those empty properties then funding campaigns for candidates, like Weiner, in order to open that door) and it is crickets. He has nothing to say in regards the poor to middle income that are struggling to stay in this neighborhood.

It's always some idiot issue that is "f-o-o-o-r-r-r-r the ch-i-i-i-l-l-l-l-dren.

Well, every family that I know that raised their children in the Castro (and 23 years ago, there was only a handful of us) and every family that I know that has lived here and started a family within the last 10 years, we have a message for the interlopers... Take a flying fuck at the mooooon. Your corporate pet, Weiner, may try to build a national reputation on an easy issue (OMG! Naked people! In public! Ban them Weiner! Ban them!) and have little doubt he'll succeed - shiny things are appealing to the general public - but it's going to take another couple of decades until you take over and, in the meantime, there will be (gasp) blatant not main street Missouri standards in your face.

So, the naked people will be banned. And next it will be the naked mannequin window displays. (Already complaints.) And next it will be the sexual suggestive window displays. (Already complaints.) And next it will be sexually suggestive text.

[FreeState]

130. Agree - its sad that they are trying to destroy the Castro

And that's really what is going on here.

[Union Scribe]

113. I can't tell if that's hilarious or ridiculous.

"Save your clothing requirements for Branson"

...'cause no one but a bunch of awful PRUDES would prefer clothing!

[Nye Bevan]

116. Well I, for one, always like to take a vacation in Branson,

when I grow tired of seeing exposed penises and perinea in public places.

Perhaps Branson could use this as the basis of a new marketing campaign?

[JackRiddler]

141. Everyone who prefers clothing is allowed to wear it.

[apocalypsehow]

121. It's probably all a vast conspiracy...(*rollseyes*).

You know what I think is a "disgrace"?

[snooper2]

148. unless the nude person doesn't take care of their body...

or any person for that matter LOL

[Recursion]

187. Oh come on. This is about creepy old guys who enjoy making people feel uncomfortable

Exhibitionism is awesome when all the participants are willing. It's decidedly non-awesome when the onlookers aren't.

[Fearless]

124. Heh heh, Wiener doesn't like to see weiner.

[Egalitarian Thug]

125. This thread is absolute proof that America is doomed.

That we have reached the second decade of the 21st century and there are still people that, presumably, identify themselves as liberal who are in favor of criminalizing the exposure of the human body in a city that supposedly epitomizes liberalism just speaks volumes about how little we have progressed.

Bunch of sexless, puritanical, repressed, authoritarian prudes.

[Nye Bevan]

134. First they came for the fat naked dudes and I stayed silent......

I see where you're going here.

[Odin2005]

137. It has nothing to do with prudery and everything to do with rudeness.

[Egalitarian Thug]

138. Sure it is, that's why it hasn't been necessary for 136 years. LOL! n/t

[Odin2005]

140. Do you blow your nose when you are right next to others?

That's how I see public nudity.

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

206. Not necessarily. I was worried that this thread was going to say they were banning the Folsom Street

Festival. That would be wrong. But, on the other hand, I'm with those who don't care for the public nudity being described here. Still, in this case, I don't agree with banning it, especially if it's true that most of those complaining are newcomers who want to change the character of the area they moved into. They should have moved somewhere else, imo.

[Egalitarian Thug]

208. That's where I'm coming from as well. It's not about the nudity, it's about the mindset that says

it's alright to criminalize anyone that a majority, or a vocal minority, don't like. It's literally un-American.

[tedzbear]

129. Don't they have parades for that?

Hey, I'm gay with a capital G and I still don't like nudity in my face unless I ask for it.

[eyewall]

131. I'm just worried about the shopping carts.

[FrodosPet]

163. Amen!

Won't somebody PLEEEEASE think of the shopping carts?

[NuttyFluffers]

132. booooooo. stuuuuuupiiiid.

hey, that ordinance obviously must include new interpretations on breast feeding.

are breasts related to genitals?

are breasts a strange special class unto itself (just like gay people who married before prop H8te are special class of citizens still legally married regardless of the prop because of Federal Constitution's no ex post facto clause)?

if breasts aren't genitals, can women now walk around without the band-aids on their nipples?

time for the court to decide!


ah ha ha ha! the second you accidentally split your pants in SF, it'll be a crime! ah ha ha ha ha! so stupid! people will be mandated to wear underwear to prevent a wardrobe malfunction!


do it! totally do it! i fucking dare you! ah ha ha ha ha! this might be an awesome fight to watch! think how tied up the courts and police will be, how much money the city would hemorrhage. DO IT! I'm across the bay, ENTERTAIN ME!

[Dorian Gray]

135. Reading through

this thread, before breakfast, on a Monday morning is not for the faint of heart.

All the talk of fecal matter and bacteria and sweaty hairy nakedness on public busses. Yum..

[Heywood J]

136. This thread... is fucking hilarious first thing in the morning.

The responses are far more comedy gold than the original article. When someone posts the first ticket for "fragrant taint exposure", we're all set.

[Lightbulb_on]

146. I was more bothered by the constant requests for money...

... than by nudity last time I was in San Francisco.

Decent enough city but we won't be back until they address that issue.

[underoath]

150. stop the complaining! let them be nude and have wild sex whereever they want!

[Javaman]

151. After reading all the various responses in this thread...

I have come to the conclusion that whether not someone walks around in the castro district nude isn't the issue. Since, apparently, they have been doing this for a very long time and contrary to some who have commented in this thread, there hasn't been a massive outbreak of fecal matter in food or anything of the like otherwise it would have been all over fox news as a banner headline for years.

No, the issue is peoples personal beliefs and concepts as to how other people should live.

It's amusing really, considering how often we complain about how the republicans wish to limit our personal freedoms. Now, here in our very midst, many posters are doing just that same thing. Until this item was in the headlines, honestly, how many of you actually gave a rats ass about this issue? I would bet none. Zero. Nada. Zip and Zilch.

But since it's the new "outrage du jour" the moral contempt writ large on some DU'ers sleeves comes out in a fury of indignation.

You crack me up. LOL

Get over yourselves and have a good laugh at your knee jerk need to comment on something that didn't matter to you a week ago.

So amusing.

[The Straight Story]

161. The whole 'people have been doing it for years' means nothing at all

People smoked in bars, that they went to by personal choice, for years. No one forced them to be there anymore than anyone forces someone to go to san fran.

People displayed christmas decorations in town squares since before I was born.

They didn't wear seat belts if they didn't want to back when I was a kid.

Personal freedoms are often taken away by the very people I see here saying that having people wear clothing is wrong.

The site of naked people wandering the city streets may be just as terrifying to some as seeing a christmas tree at city hall. To some it is just a symbol of their culture and they have 'always done' it.

[Javaman]

162. thanks for making my point. :)

Cheers!

[Taverner]

170. +100

[Throd]

160. They're not nudists. They are exhibitionists who get off on showing their junk to the public.

[Taverner]

169. Let nudity flow

And this is from a parent of kids in the SF Bay Area

My son saw a nude dude in SF, and asked me about it.

I told him "He has a penis, just like you."

End of questions

[Nye Bevan]

173. "And why does he want to show kids his penis, Daddy?"

Didn't this used to be called "flashing"?

[Taverner]

174. Meh, what's so scary about a penis?

or boobs? or a vagina?

[Nye Bevan]

176. So should men at playgrounds everywhere be allowed to whip out their penises?

It's not like they are scary or anything. Think of it as an anatomy lesson for 10-year olds.

[Taverner]

178. Let me let you in on a little secret...

The reason most of these men are walking around naked now is because the media is busy clutching their pearls over this one. Stop making it an issue and it will go away. SF can get downright cold this time of year.

[Nye Bevan]

184. No, it's because they enjoy showing their penises to people.

The one your son saw probably enjoyed the expression on your son's face.

[Taverner]

185. Doubt he saw it, we were in a car

But I disagree.

You must not know any naturists, do you?

[Luminous Animal]

193. I think you are getting awful close to accusing gay men of being pedophiles.

[Nye Bevan]

196. Whoa. You are the first poster in this thread to mention "gay", or "pedophile".

I am not aware of the sexual orientation of these nudists and do not see it as relevant.

[Luminous Animal]

199. Whoa. It is the Castro. The naked guys are gay.

[Nye Bevan]

200. I had no idea. And I'm not sure why you brought it up. (nt)

[Luminous Animal]

202. Because you said this...

"The one your son saw probably enjoyed the expression on your son's face."

You inferred that the man enjoyed exposing himself to a boy.

[Luminous Animal]

192. Lewd behavior is still a crime. Men exposing themselves at a playground

(and, by the way, adults are not allowed on playgrounds in SF unless accompanied by children), are pedophiles and their actions would be perceived as a crime.

[Nye Bevan]

197. What if a street is visible from a playground?

They can legally remove their pants and underwear on a street.

[Warren DeMontague]

177. Why dont they worry about fixing the roads and the lack of adequate parking, first?

I was all set to drive down to the Castro to work up a righteous froth-based anger over the TWO WHOLE NAKED GUYS out of a city of 700,000 for which this "emergency ordinance" was written, but upon being totally unable To find an open Parking space, I circled around for two hours, and after my car died on a hill in Noe Valley, I gave up.

[Taverner]

180. Because naughty bits of all kinds are EEEEEVIL!!!!!

If kids see nudity they might think their bodies are OK or something, instead of "vessels for gawd"

[Warren DeMontague]

188. Maybe I've lived in Portland for too long

But I just dont see what the big fucking deal is.

http://pdxpipeline.com/2012/06/11/portland-naked-bike-ride-pictures-info/

[Luminous Animal]

195. Fixing potholes doesn't get your name in the national news.

[lyingsackofmitt]

186. Nude != Lewd!

Why does the human body have to be offensive to some people. Nudity doesn't have to equal sex. You don't masturbate every time you go to the bathroom do you? This country has a body image problem, leading young women and men to want an unattainable physique that ultimately leads them to low self esteem and depression.

[booley]

189. one thing we have learned from nudists

The more one is exposed to nudity, the less prurient it becomes.

This isn't about being sanitary. It's about how most people see nudity as "EWWWW" and get shocked when they see it.

The thing about shock though.. eventually it stops being shocking.

[muriel_volestrangler]

190. If you're going to San Francisco

Be sure to wear some clothes on pubic hair...

[bluestate10]

207. The ban passed by 1 vote. It still allows nudity in some events. nt

[Quantess]

209. As long as they leave Folsom Street Fair alone!

Come on, people. You HAVE to allow nudity at the Folsom Street Fair, otherwise, what's the point?