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markpkessinger

(8,403 posts)
Fri Sep 1, 2023, 09:18 AM Sep 2023

On McConnell, Feinstein, aging and mandatory retirement ages

In the wake of Mitch McConnell's second "freezing" incident, there is a lot of chatter about imposing a mandatory retirement age for elected officials. Given how much I utterly despise McConnell, and think he has damaged this country in some truly profound ways, it is certainly tempting to jump on the age limits bandwagon. But as I've thought about it further, it seems to me there are some very real and practical issues that deserve careful consideration before we rush into such a major change.

As I said, I despise McConnell. But at the same time, I recognize that he is not a MAGA Republican, and that Biden has been able to work with him on at least a few issues. Wishing him gone from his post might be a question of being careful what we wish for, because his replacement could be far, far worse. And it is not clear to me that McConnell is, as yet, incapacitated by whatever condition he has. Sure, he has these freezing spells, and he has taken some falls of late, but whether he is experience a TIA, a ministroke, a seizure, or some Parkinsonian-like condition, that doesn't necessarily mean he is unable to perform the responsibilities of his position, or that he is incapable of understanding the issues before him.

The situation with Feinstein is, I think, rather different. She is clearly cognitively impaired. Yet, McConnell has said that Republicans on the Judiciary Committee will block any replacement Gavin Newsom might appoint, so if she were to resign, losing her from the Judiciary Committee might well mean the end of any further judicial confirmations under Biden.

As for Biden, it is clear that he has slowed considerably on a physical level, but I have seen no signs that he doesn't grasp the issues he is confronting. HIs occasional verbal stumbles are the result of a stutter he has battle his entire life.

At the same time, there is Bernie Sanders, who despite having had a mild heart attack a couple of years ago, remains as sharp on the issues as he ever was.

I think of Benjamin Franklin, who, nearly 250 years ago, at the age of 70 and afflicted with various ailments including gout, undertook an arduous voyage to France to be this country's first ambassador there, and critically, secured funding and military assistance from the French king, which were so very critical to the success of the American Revolution. That accomplishment took a number of years, and required great patience, which Franklin displayed even when Congress thought he was merely partying it up in Paris. Congress then sent the much younger, and extremely impatient, John Adams, to "work with" Franklin, and Adams became thoroughly exasperated with his elder colleague. But Franklin had the wisdom and experience to know how to play a long game, and knew full well that if he pushed too hard, and at the wrong time, his entire mission would end in failure.

Now, to be clear, I am not, in any way, making a comparison between McConnell and Franklin. Franklin was a statesman of the first order, whereas McConnell is a craven and ruthless political operator, and nothing more. But I just think we need to think all of this through VERY carefully before we set ourselves on a path we might later regret.

In addition, a mandatory retirement age, no matter how you might want to spin it, is a form of age discrimination. Look, aging and its effects are hugely variable from one individual to the next. And the Constitution takes very seriously the idea that the people have a right to choose the persons who will represent them. So, if the people of a given state or district wish to re-elect an octogenarian, who are we to say they shouldn't be able to do so?

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On McConnell, Feinstein, aging and mandatory retirement ages (Original Post) markpkessinger Sep 2023 OP
We've always had age discrimination Shrek Sep 2023 #1
Agreed. temporary311 Sep 2023 #6
I'd say 74, that way a max senate term newdayneeded Sep 2023 #11
I would temper your suggestion: no_hypocrisy Sep 2023 #2
It's a classic slippery slope ismnotwasm Sep 2023 #3
If 34 was too old for jeebus, 34 is too old for me!!! ret5hd Sep 2023 #4
The thing is cyclonefence Sep 2023 #5
Exactly. Let the voters decide. If they think someone can't handle the job, that is the job of the JohnSJ Sep 2023 #7
Voter can term limit politicians Mz Pip Sep 2023 #16
Cognitive analysis, OK. Mandatory age limits, NO. Nikki effin Haley... brush Sep 2023 #8
Think voters should decide if a candidate is too old. Silent Type Sep 2023 #9
Such a crazy idea just might work! hardluck Sep 2023 #10
You must know that if McConnell would newdayneeded Sep 2023 #12
That's the problem I've realized Calculating Sep 2023 #17
That's kind of Democracy, don't you think? Glad to see the McConnells move on, but not by a gimmick. Silent Type Sep 2023 #20
For most people, Adult Protective Services intervene leftstreet Sep 2023 #13
I wrongly jumped on the age limit bandwagon yesterday. BlueKota Sep 2023 #14
Well said. tinrobot Sep 2023 #22
i started a similar thread and just deleted it CatWoman Sep 2023 #15
We have age minimums Calculating Sep 2023 #18
The Constitution establishes the sole requirements for federal office Darwins_Retriever Sep 2023 #19
I say let the voters decide, but fix the way we run campaigns. tinrobot Sep 2023 #21

Shrek

(3,984 posts)
1. We've always had age discrimination
Fri Sep 1, 2023, 09:29 AM
Sep 2023

A president has to be at least 35. The minimum age for senators and representatives is 30 and 25 respectively.

I see no reason why a maximum age would be any more objectionable.

newdayneeded

(1,959 posts)
11. I'd say 74, that way a max senate term
Fri Sep 1, 2023, 11:22 AM
Sep 2023

takes them to 80, and there out of there to relax the rest of their life.

no_hypocrisy

(46,210 posts)
2. I would temper your suggestion:
Fri Sep 1, 2023, 09:30 AM
Sep 2023

Age and ability are not uniform.

You can be over 80 and still running a corporation. Same with being a representative, a senator, or a President.

It depends upon physical and mental faculties. Can you do your job?

My suggestion is an individual analysis, not a mandatory age requirement.

ismnotwasm

(42,014 posts)
3. It's a classic slippery slope
Fri Sep 1, 2023, 09:31 AM
Sep 2023

While I wish people would match their health and capabilities with their jobs, it’s not just old people who neglect this.

That said age is the alternative to death, if you’re lucky you get there with joy and some comfort.

cyclonefence

(4,483 posts)
5. The thing is
Fri Sep 1, 2023, 09:43 AM
Sep 2023

that the power to vote decides who serves. If the voters in KY or CA want to send a comatose stomp idiot to represent them, that's their right. Nobody else gets to decide for them, and that's as it should be.

The right to choose who represents you is a cornerstone of our democracy--it's foundational--and trying to insist on the mental condition of somebody else's representative is unamerican imo.

That's why I oppose your suggestion, sensible as it may be, and why I also oppose term limits. There's a reason people keep re-electing folks who drive the rest of us crazy. I grew up in WV, where Robert C. Byrd and Jennings Randolph were so beloved they could be serving from beyond the grave if WVians could figure out how it would work.

JohnSJ

(92,422 posts)
7. Exactly. Let the voters decide. If they think someone can't handle the job, that is the job of the
Fri Sep 1, 2023, 09:55 AM
Sep 2023

voter.

I would sure as hell like a capable compassionate 80 year old President, than a young Gym Jordan, Turboville, Cruz, etc. occupying the WH

Mz Pip

(27,453 posts)
16. Voter can term limit politicians
Fri Sep 1, 2023, 12:01 PM
Sep 2023

by voting them out. Feinstein had a perfectly good Democratic challenger in the GE. She still won. Wasn’t my choice but now we have to live with the consequences.

brush

(53,907 posts)
8. Cognitive analysis, OK. Mandatory age limits, NO. Nikki effin Haley...
Fri Sep 1, 2023, 10:02 AM
Sep 2023

just lumped in Joe Biden with McConnell by saying she's "watched Joe Biden's decline" also...something to that effect...as Biden continues to be very effective at his job (the job Haley wants, btw). The point is that cognitive decline does not happen to everyone at a certain age.

McConnell and Feinstein are obviously not what they once were cognitively. Biden is still kicking ass, so again, cognitive evaluations, yes...strict, mandatory age limits, no.

newdayneeded

(1,959 posts)
12. You must know that if McConnell would
Fri Sep 1, 2023, 11:26 AM
Sep 2023

run again he'd win with ease, and, truth is, so would Feinstein. Voters are stupid, the candidates just need the r or d behind their name, nevermind the health problems.

Calculating

(2,957 posts)
17. That's the problem I've realized
Fri Sep 1, 2023, 12:10 PM
Sep 2023

People are just plain dumb, they'd probably send a personal in a coma to DC before voting for the other party.

Silent Type

(2,977 posts)
20. That's kind of Democracy, don't you think? Glad to see the McConnells move on, but not by a gimmick.
Fri Sep 1, 2023, 01:53 PM
Sep 2023

Dumb people have a say.

leftstreet

(36,116 posts)
13. For most people, Adult Protective Services intervene
Fri Sep 1, 2023, 11:31 AM
Sep 2023

For the rest of us peons...there's an expectation that family and medical personnel will guide the senior who's struggling into the best decisions for that senior. If not, agencies get involved in the process.

To make an argument that a potentially impaired person should function because of the political fallout is weird

BlueKota

(1,796 posts)
14. I wrongly jumped on the age limit bandwagon yesterday.
Fri Sep 1, 2023, 11:54 AM
Sep 2023

I reacted emotionally not intellectually to seeing McConnell starring at the camera like he had no clue of who he was or where he was. He also looked like he was scared and helpless. I can't stand the guy, but I felt he should be getting treatment, and maybe he's not able to admit he needs help. Also I wondered could people manipulate how he votes when he's having a weak spell.

As it was rightfully pointed out to me, however, not all older individuals suffer from mental deterioration. Like obviously President Biden doesn't, and neither do many others. Not to mention all the other younger representatives who have intellectual and mental challenges.

I know we should trust the voters and in a democracy we have to accept it whether we like it or not. But it's freaking hard when you have people who would vote for a corpse as long as they had an R after their name. Not to mention the ones who voted for a mentality deranged criminally oriented asshole like Trump. It be fine if only the people who voted for him had to live with the consequences of his dangerous behavior but that's not the case.

Darwins_Retriever

(856 posts)
19. The Constitution establishes the sole requirements for federal office
Fri Sep 1, 2023, 12:15 PM
Sep 2023

It would require a Constitutional Amendment to create maximum ages, Ain't going to happen. Neither the Congress nor the states have the authority.

tinrobot

(10,919 posts)
21. I say let the voters decide, but fix the way we run campaigns.
Fri Sep 1, 2023, 02:20 PM
Sep 2023

Perhaps have debates that ask real policy questions and don't have WWE-level audiences.

Perhaps get money out of politics so that compromise candidates can't hide behind a wall of expensive ads.

And otherwise do things that shine a brighter light on the candidates.

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