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democrank

(11,112 posts)
Mon Aug 7, 2023, 06:09 AM Aug 2023

When cruelty is valued more than the common good

Donald Trump throwing paper towel rolls at hurricane victims was a hideous display of his lack of empathy and decency. Perhaps his handlers told him if he played football, his team would most definitely be competing in the Super Bowl. Best throw ever. Most muscular arms. A toss with the most precision. Right on the mark. Beautiful pass, just beautiful. Disastrous situation, lives in peril, but not a hint of concern on Trump’s face. He would head home to top-notch shelter and have someone else press a button for room service.

What happens to a country when one of the two major political groups designs a deliberate shift away from the ideal of The Common Good to policies of increasing cruelty? Not just increasing cruelty, but cruelty as the basic principle. Razor wire. Forced pregnancies. Neck kneeling. Eliminating child labor laws. Reducing access to voting. Denying history. Policies without a shred of compassion.

For nearly eight decades I believed that our Constitution was like a cast iron pillar which supported our country. Rock solid. Immovable. Constant. Now many Republicans treat it with utter disregard. Same with our laws. Same with our traditions. Utter disregard. Win at all cost. Flat out lie on national television. Lie to voters. Lie to children. Lie to judges. Whatever it takes.

It’s like Republicans believe they are the entitled to the land, the money, the positions of authority. They alone, by way of their superior white heritage, have the right to lay claim to it all. When people of color, women, poor folks try to gain access to the group, stop them any way you can….even if it’s cruel. Yank children from their parents. Force a 10 year old to have her rapist’s baby. Throw a six year old back into the river. Get the ballot boxes out of black communities. Shame food stamp recipients.

We can march, protest, speak out, volunteer, vote….but we can’t grow accustomed to what has happened to our country. I’ve stopped laughing at Trump jokes. He’s not funny. He’s dead-serious dangerous, the most dangerous person to ever rise to power in this country. Imagine being in his Cult of Cruelty and wearing a MAGA hat with pride. You can’t get much lower.

41 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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When cruelty is valued more than the common good (Original Post) democrank Aug 2023 OP
Good post, democrank. brer cat Aug 2023 #1
Agree!!! nt pazzyanne Aug 2023 #21
It's all about the greater good! Initech Aug 2023 #25
Are we becoming a nation of sociopaths? Irish_Dem Aug 2023 #2
You got it all, I've seen it and it's definitely on the rise, dangerous times.. appalachiablue Aug 2023 #17
Yes BlueIn_W_Pa Aug 2023 #31
I don't think it's a new development ExWhoDoesntCare Aug 2023 #35
I too fear for our country because we have too many people who no longer value democracy Lonestarblue Aug 2023 #3
Kick and recommend. bronxiteforever Aug 2023 #4
Excellent post. Right on the mark. scarletlib Aug 2023 #5
They are fed a totalitarian mindset bucolic_frolic Aug 2023 #6
In my nearly half century of adulthood Cosmocat Aug 2023 #7
I'd like to know when these halcyon days of civil discourse existed ExWhoDoesntCare Aug 2023 #36
So, do you think it's worse now or just more obvious? Ligyron Aug 2023 #40
FFS Cosmocat Aug 2023 #41
K&R 2naSalit Aug 2023 #8
Hateful ignorance wrapped in religion and or patriotism is still hateful ignorance. czarjak Aug 2023 #9
The great sage Mike Tyson says it best EYESORE 9001 Aug 2023 #10
We can't help everyone Marthe48 Aug 2023 #11
Totally agree about no longer laughing at wnylib Aug 2023 #12
As has been said, the cruelty is the point dlk Aug 2023 #13
Excellent! LoisB Aug 2023 #14
It is a Cult of cruelty, as you rightly say n/t Alice Kramden Aug 2023 #15
Brilliant. This paragraph says it all. Justice Aug 2023 #16
(Trump is) "the most dangerous person to ever rise to power..." Wednesdays Aug 2023 #18
KNR and bookmarking. Very well said. I never laughed, because I never found niyad Aug 2023 #19
I'm hoping these are the desperate grabs for power by the dinosaurs-- Sky Jewels Aug 2023 #20
K&R Blue Owl Aug 2023 #22
I really hate to sound like a broken record here... Initech Aug 2023 #23
Fairness Doctrine gone and Citizens United ruling. Brainfodder Aug 2023 #24
Absolutely. pandr32 Aug 2023 #28
I think there's always been this many cruel people. Elessar Zappa Aug 2023 #26
And they have become emboldened by a man who encourages their hatred. Haggis 4 Breakfast Aug 2023 #33
Excellent post! pandr32 Aug 2023 #27
It has always been about the money topcelts Aug 2023 #29
What an absolutely excellent post. llmart Aug 2023 #30
All one has to do is turn on the live coverage of any Republican National Convention or CPAC DFW Aug 2023 #32
Great post! KT2000 Aug 2023 #34
K & R! 58Sunliner Aug 2023 #37
Excellent post Democrank Duncanpup Aug 2023 #38
The Cult of Cruelty malaise Aug 2023 #39

Irish_Dem

(47,779 posts)
2. Are we becoming a nation of sociopaths?
Mon Aug 7, 2023, 06:44 AM
Aug 2023
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/antisocial-personality-disorder/symptoms-causes/syc-20353928

Antisocial personality disorder, also called a sociopath, is a mental health condition in which a person consistently shows no regard for right and wrong and ignores the rights and feelings of others. People with antisocial personality disorder tend to purposely make others angry or upset and manipulate or treat others harshly or with cruel indifference. They lack remorse or do not regret their behavior.

People with antisocial personality disorder often violate the law, becoming criminals. They may lie, behave violently or impulsively, and have problems with drug and alcohol use. They have difficulty consistently meeting responsibilities related to family, work or school.

Symptoms of antisocial personality disorder include repeatedly:

Ignoring right and wrong.
Telling lies to take advantage of others.
Not being sensitive to or respectful of others.
Using charm or wit to manipulate others for personal gain or pleasure.
Having a sense of superiority and being extremely opinionated.
Having problems with the law, including criminal behavior.
Being hostile, aggressive, violent or threatening to others.
Feeling no guilt about harming others.
Doing dangerous things with no regard for the safety of self or others.
Being irresponsible and failing to fulfill work or financial responsibilities.
 

BlueIn_W_Pa

(842 posts)
31. Yes
Mon Aug 7, 2023, 02:58 PM
Aug 2023

and social media is just fuel to the fire reinforcing sociopathic tendencies where at least there was a chance those would have been put down before.

 

ExWhoDoesntCare

(4,741 posts)
35. I don't think it's a new development
Mon Aug 7, 2023, 09:46 PM
Aug 2023

I think we're starting to recognize it and face it, thanks to better tools and information.

Remember the days before DSM-IV, when we didn't really understand that huge gap between full-on autism and neurotypical behavior? But then the in-between, and so many of its variations, got sorted out. Remember how there seemed to be this huge "explosion" of autism spectrum diagnoses in the aftermath?

But was there really more autism...or was it that professionals understanding it better, and how to spot it better, created that explosion? You and I both know that there was no new surge of autism spectrum disorders in the country, only a new way of looking at and diagnosing them.

Same thing with A-SPD. Our understanding of these personalities has grown, and the result is that our awareness of them has grown. They're not so much of a mystery anymore, but something we can define and understand.

But the psychopaths and sociopaths were always out there--they're not anything new at all, and we're not experiencing a new or unexpected "surge" of them. Think of all the many evil historical figures--and even the ones who barely registered outside their immediate locales--who had to be anti-social personalities. Wouldn't you say that Nazi Germany qualified as a mass outbreak of sociopathy? The Jim Crow South would be another example of sociopathy run amok. Those are but two examples of many we could name.

No, it's not new. The difference now is that we have eyes to see it better.

Lonestarblue

(10,153 posts)
3. I too fear for our country because we have too many people who no longer value democracy
Mon Aug 7, 2023, 06:56 AM
Aug 2023

and the common good. The first question now seems to be “What’s in it for me?” But I still have hope. For me, the 2024 election will tell us whether we will remain as a democracy or sink into authoritarian and theocratic rule.

The Supreme Court absolutely is part of the problem, and if they are allowed to continue handing out special privileges according to minority religious beliefs while also granting special privileges to corporations as they ascribe the rights of people to them and gut the ability of the government to regulate them, we will see a continued loss of rights and a degradation of democracy. Assuming that Democrats are able to hold on to a Senate majority and add a few seats with progressives who are willing to make changes, the SC absolutely must be expanded in 2025. Otherwise, they will just continue to run roughshod over precedent while doing whatever Leonard Leo and fellow billionaires tell them to do. We’ve already seen that they accept made-up cases where no harm has been suffered to bring about their desired result. Many such cases are being devised to enact the right-wing agenda.

The question now is whether enough voters will see the risks we face.

bucolic_frolic

(43,465 posts)
6. They are fed a totalitarian mindset
Mon Aug 7, 2023, 07:39 AM
Aug 2023

Feelings are a sign of weakness! Ignore goodness when you see it so you can hate people who don't look, sound, or believe as you do.

Cosmocat

(14,583 posts)
7. In my nearly half century of adulthood
Mon Aug 7, 2023, 07:51 AM
Aug 2023

I was initially at a loss to the mean spirited and intellectual dishonesty of the right wing media, then very quickly knew it unearthed, then nurtured, the lesser instincts of the human spirit.

Since then, I have seen a slow, but steady deterioration of our public discourse.

It has always pained me, but this country ALWAYS indulges whatever bullshit the right wing throws out. And, been ok with it eating away at our sense of decency and our integrity.

WE see it, WE care, we do what we can.

But, 1/3 of us are blood thirsty zombies and another 1/3 has no problem with where they are driving us.

 

ExWhoDoesntCare

(4,741 posts)
36. I'd like to know when these halcyon days of civil discourse existed
Mon Aug 7, 2023, 10:02 PM
Aug 2023

Was it the 00s? Oh, wait. That's when the traitor party screeched about "with us or against us" "freedom fries," and otherwise demonized wide swaths of Americans. It was also the decade that gave rise to the teabaggers who lost their minds over a black guy becoming president. Do tell me what was civil about accusing him of not being a "real" American because he was (not) born in another country. And what was civil about saying his wife was actually a man?

Was it the 90s? Oh, wait. That's when Newt Gingrich decided to go scorched earth on everyone he hated--and wasn't shy about trashing them in public.

Was it the 80s? Oh, wait. That's when that scumbag reagan went out of his way to trash "welfare queens" and give states right speeches a stone's throw from where civil righs marchers were murdered. His party jumped right in beside him to trash women, minorities, gay people, liberals--well, anyone who didn't agree with them 100%.

Was it the 70s? Oh, wait. Remember this?



Is that what qualifies as civil discourse?

Do I even need to go back through the previous decades, with the Jim Crow South and its Northern sympathizers, McCarthyism and the John Birch Society nutters in the 50s, the support for Nazi Germany in this country before WWII, or the decades of open KKK support, North and South, in the early 20th century?

There has never been some glorious past of civil discourse in America. Hate has been baked right into the very foundation of the country. That's why it's naive in the extreme to think it's ever been otherwise.

Cosmocat

(14,583 posts)
41. FFS
Tue Aug 8, 2023, 06:50 AM
Aug 2023

You made my point wihlthout knowing it.

It's gotten progressively worse each decade.

Yes Ronald Reagen was a pos, but what we have now, with the Republican party being a 100% complete and unabashed clownshow of overt corruption, hate and stupidity, is infinitely worse that what existed in the 70s and 80s.

czarjak

(11,319 posts)
9. Hateful ignorance wrapped in religion and or patriotism is still hateful ignorance.
Mon Aug 7, 2023, 07:54 AM
Aug 2023

But, praise Jesus?

EYESORE 9001

(26,026 posts)
10. The great sage Mike Tyson says it best
Mon Aug 7, 2023, 07:58 AM
Aug 2023
Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth

I’m not advocating violence - just creating consequences for bad behavior.

Marthe48

(17,109 posts)
11. We can't help everyone
Mon Aug 7, 2023, 08:12 AM
Aug 2023

but we can help the person beside us. The good hearted among us can keep sharing our outlook and hope that we are pushing back super hard against the cruelty.

The rwnj have gone rogue and they will not win.

wnylib

(21,756 posts)
12. Totally agree about no longer laughing at
Mon Aug 7, 2023, 08:15 AM
Aug 2023

jokes about Trump. He is seriously dangerous. Joking about him makes him seem like a harmless buffoon. There is nothing harmless about him.

I am not telling anyone else that they can't laugh at him or make fun of him. I am only saying that I take see him as a very serious danger to democracy and to humanity.

dlk

(11,600 posts)
13. As has been said, the cruelty is the point
Mon Aug 7, 2023, 08:18 AM
Aug 2023

Republicans have devolved into the party of sedition and violence. We should not underestimate their intent.

Justice

(7,188 posts)
16. Brilliant. This paragraph says it all.
Mon Aug 7, 2023, 09:44 AM
Aug 2023

"What happens to a country when one of the two major political groups designs a deliberate shift away from the ideal of The Common Good to policies of increasing cruelty? Not just increasing cruelty, but cruelty as the basic principle. Razor wire. Forced pregnancies. Neck kneeling. Eliminating child labor laws. Reducing access to voting. Denying history. Policies without a shred of compassion."

Wednesdays

(17,462 posts)
18. (Trump is) "the most dangerous person to ever rise to power..."
Mon Aug 7, 2023, 11:02 AM
Aug 2023

And once Trump is gone, there'll be someone just as bad (or worse) to take his place...DeSatan, whoever. It will never stop, so we must always be vigilant.

niyad

(113,803 posts)
19. KNR and bookmarking. Very well said. I never laughed, because I never found
Mon Aug 7, 2023, 11:18 AM
Aug 2023

him clever, or funny, or smart. I kept pointing out that many people thought hitler was a joke, and look how that turned out. Seems that even those of us who were sounding the alarm bells had no idea of the magnitude of the horror unleashed.

Sky Jewels

(7,194 posts)
20. I'm hoping these are the desperate grabs for power by the dinosaurs--
Mon Aug 7, 2023, 11:35 AM
Aug 2023

The white right wing (often male) assholes born before, say, 1975 or so. The younger generations seem much less susceptible to Republican bullshit than the Gen X, Boomer, and Silent generations were at the same age. That's a much more racially diverse group, of course, and they don't take shit from these older right wing cretins.

The GQP has an uphill battle on their hands. Ceiling Cat culls thousands of old Republicans every day, and Gen Z produces 11,000 18-year-olds every day. And the old fascists are not being replaced on the voting rolls.

(Disclaimer: I'm not saying everyone born before 1975 is an right wing asshole; I'm singling out the abundance of right wing assholes among this demographic as a whole, which is the age demographic I belong to, so I hope no one responds with: "Well I'm a Boomer and I've always voted Dem and I'm not racist!" etc., ... I know, I know ...)

Initech

(100,132 posts)
23. I really hate to sound like a broken record here...
Mon Aug 7, 2023, 12:16 PM
Aug 2023

But the propaganda is a massive part of the problem as to how we got here in the first place. The right wing has a monopoly on talk radio and news talk shows. They have multiple streams running 24 hours a day. We don't have anything even remotely close to that. Fox, Sinclair, Infowars, 2500 AM radio stations, Newsmax, OAN, every single megachurch in the country. There's no end to this shit. It's a massive part of the problem and unless we start addressing it, things will get worse. Trump is but a symptom of an even greater problem plaguing this country.

pandr32

(11,638 posts)
28. Absolutely.
Mon Aug 7, 2023, 01:21 PM
Aug 2023

Fox so-called News is (or at least was--maybe Biden has challenged this) shown on all our military bases. A lot of people with older cars are still listening to AM radio as they drive around. Small towns and communities often get only bare-bones cable which always includes Fox News. This has poisoned our nation.

topcelts

(6 posts)
29. It has always been about the money
Mon Aug 7, 2023, 01:26 PM
Aug 2023

Anyone who thinks this country (USA) and this world is capable of sustaining democratic principles has not read enough history. Rome, money: british empire especially its monarchy, money: american capitalism. We in the USA have the best democracy money can buy.

llmart

(15,565 posts)
30. What an absolutely excellent post.
Mon Aug 7, 2023, 01:35 PM
Aug 2023

The title alone is spot on. We've all seen and experienced it now for quite some time - the lack of basic morals, ethics, consideration for others. It's difficult for those of us who came of age in the 50's when all these things were taught at home and in school and for some (not me) in church. Now even the churches teach cruelty to others and the "me first" attitude.

We have truly lost our way and it's very sad to me that I'll probably have to live out the rest of my days in a country where so many people are the kind I want nothing to do with.

DFW

(54,498 posts)
32. All one has to do is turn on the live coverage of any Republican National Convention or CPAC
Mon Aug 7, 2023, 04:12 PM
Aug 2023

It won't matter who is speaking--that is what you will get. The only variance will be the severity and the decibel count.

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