It hurts me to say this ...

[NanceGreggs]

... but I will say it nonetheless.

I moved to Canada in 1974, when my then-husband was offered a lucrative, career-advancing job. When we split-up three years later, I chose to stay here. Neither decision had anything to do with politics - in fact, I was rather apolitical at the time.

But I always took pride in the fact that I was an American. Over the years, I amassed a sizeable collection of American flag pins and brooches, which I always wore. I owned an over-sized American flag, which I displayed on my front porch on every US holiday. My place became known as 'the house with the flag' among neighbours and fast-food delivery people alike.

I always made it known that I was a US citizen, because I took pride in the place I came from and its people. I took pride in the fact that my country - for all its faults and mis-steps - was always striving to form "a more perfect union".

I was proud when my countrymen united after the attacks of 9/11. I was proud when my nation elected its first black president. I was proud when same-sex marriage became the law of the land.

But now my pride has turned to shame - shame that so many of my fellow citizens have chosen bigotry over inclusiveness, hatred over love of country, violence over the peaceful resolution of our differences.

I am ashamed of self-proclaimed "Christians" who have abandoned the teachings of Christ, of politicians who have abandoned their oaths of office, and of citizens who have abandoned every principle my country was founded upon.

Above all else, I am ashamed of my own gratitude that I live in a country that isn't the United States, but in a country where my lesbian daughter is safe, a country where school children are not gunned-down by assault-weapon-wielding murderers, a place where bigotry is not welcomed nor accepted, no less openly encouraged.

My giant American flag is safely packed away, along with my collection of "I'm a proud American" jewelry.

I hope for the day when I will not be ashamed to display them as proudly as I once did.

[ariadne0614]

1. I share your shame, and feel your pain.

My only child chose to stay in Canada after graduating from McGill. She married a Canadian, and their baby girl just turned two. I returned from visiting them in Toronto a week ago, feeling oddly relieved, grateful, and chagrined to know they’re better off on the other side of the border. Dual citizenship will give them choices in the future, if the USA ever comes to its senses.

[NanceGreggs]

3. I love Toronto.

I've been here for almost fifty years now. I've often said that if I could live anywhere on earth, I'd stay right where I am.

I fully understand your 'sense of relief' that your daughter, SIL, and grandchild are better off on this side of the border.

It's a shame that any American should feel that way - but sadly, these are the times in which we live.

[ariadne0614]

20. Toronto is wonderful!

It’s such a treat to be there. This trip included a morning visit to MOCA, the Museum of Contemporary Art. It’s just the right size for a toddler, and the exhibits on all three floors were wonderful, not to mention the fabulous food at the Forno Cultura cafe—but I digress.

The point I’m attempting to make is, being in a place where I could enjoy a cultural experience with loved ones, free from fear of lunatics with assault weapons, was divine.

[EYESORE 9001]

2. My pride has always been mixed with shame

Early in elementary school, the office sold pencils with small American flags printed on them. A phrase following the flag ran along the length of the pencil: America - Best Place on Earth. Even then, I thought that sentiment was chauvinistic, which was difficult to describe without words like ‘chauvinistic’ in my vocabulary yet. I remember wondering whether kids in other countries had similarly-emblazoned pencils touting their own countries’ superiority.

My cynicism hasn’t abated since then. Over time, I came to view American accomplishments as having been achieved in spite of forces at work to eliminate democracy itself. I came to view wealth and power with suspicion, realizing that I am valued only as long as I shoulder the yoke for their wealth-extraction mechanism.

I’m still proud of certain American accomplishments, such as ending slavery and defeatiing fascist enemies, but in retrospect we didn’t do enough. Corporate entities secretly salivate over operating within a system where slavery or fascism would make their lives easier. I’d be far more proud of living in a nation where greed isn’t a societal value.

[2naSalit]

9. +1

[llmart]

42. Excellent post.

As a small child I also felt like you did when we were made to say the Pledge of Allegiance every morning. I was always an introspective/pensive child, and I used to wonder the same things you did about how kids in their home countries felt.

Your last sentence says it all for me.

[Martin Eden]

4. I feel the same way, Nance

In the wake of 9/11, I too displayed flag symbols in the all too brief spirit of national unity. Then GW Bush and the neocons rode that wave and a systematic campaign of misinformation to launch their predetermined war of choice in Iraq. That's when I joined DU, a great source of information exposing those lies and the PNAC agenda ignored by the mainstream media. I remember all the flags displayed in my neighborhood in support of that war, and the conflicting emotions I felt seeing that proud symbol associated with something I passionately protested against.

But that was nothing compared to this era of Trumpism. Now my beloved American flag is most ostentatiously displayed by the MAGA hordes, sometimes alongside confederate and nazi flags. When their cult leader hugs the Stars & Stripes, I feel our flag is being assaulted like one of his female victims. When I see a pickup truck driving down the street proudly flying the flag I feel nothing but revulsion, knowing the driver supports the most un-American POtuS ever to threaten everything our flag is supposed to represent.

How did it ever come to this?

[NanceGreggs]

6. How indeed.

And yet here we are - ashamed of our own flag, because it is being used to represent everything true patriots abhor.

As for your reference to Trump 'hugging the flag'. I had the same reaction. There is a difference between embracing the flag, and 'humping it' as though it was just another unwilling woman whose pussy he feels entitled to grab.

[MySideOfTown]

5. I am starting to believe we are going to have another civil war.

I'm not going to be a part of it. I'm too old to fight. I will protect myself and my neighbors with what arms I have. All my extra money is now going to purchase canned goods. I am withdrawing all my cash from the bank.

[NanceGreggs]

7. Yeah, well ...

... good luck with that. I'm sure it will all work out for you.

[MySideOfTown]

11. I never thought it would come to this.

I was born in Idaho, moved to Arizona, then to Ohio, Indiana, Arizona, California, Missouri, Indiana, and finally Florida. No one is more American than I. Especially not Canadians.

[NanceGreggs]

15. I'm not a Canadian.

I am now, and always have been, a US citizen.

But nice try - as dumb as it was.

[MySideOfTown]

18. You can't vote, but I can, so you can't help us.

nt

[DFW]

21. Any American citizen can vote in the USA, no matter where they live

I've been in Germany for many years, and the Dallas Elections Office sends me my absentee ballots every election, and always on time.
I don't know where you get your information that an American citizen living in Canada can't vote. The Putin Press Agency, maybe?

[NanceGreggs]

23. Apparently you don't know ...

... that American citizens can vote regardless of where they live.

Want to try again in the I'm too stupid to know the law sweepstakes? You're already way ahead in the category!

[MySideOfTown]

26. Canadian at heart, American not so much

You know, I love your writing. I'm so stupid.

[NanceGreggs]

28. Yeah, you are.

As a 'Canadian at heart', are you still able to vote in US elections?

[Eko]

57. That's pretty insulting.

A good next step would be to apologize.
Adding: unless you are calling yourself a Canadian at heart.
Eko.

[rubbersole]

59. Kiddie pool.

Please apologize.

[johnp3907]

43. You're a prepper, he's a prepper, she's a prepper...

I wouldn’t want to be a prepper too!

[dembotoz]

8. not gonna 4th of july this year

generally i am ashamed of my land

[2naSalit]

10. Same here...

Not feeling proud about anything.

[Prairie_Seagull]

70. I am one of these old school dudes that put their flag out on the appropriate holidays.

This year for 7/4 I think, for the first time ever, I will skip that display of patriotism. This year I feel humbled by what used to be not what is in some ways. Live and let live was a BFD in my youth and seemed to me everyone believed it to be so. I live by this now and forever. I just don't think when we put our flags out these days. it means the same to everyone.

[3Hotdogs]

12. My feelings about our country changed with Viet Nam. Fortunately, Viet Nam was a "one off."

Until I learned that it wasn't.

Vine DeLoria's "Bury My Heart At Wounded Knee."

Oliver Stone's Documentary series, "The History of the United States of America."

Patrice lamumba, President and Madan Nu, assassinated by the C.I.A.

and on and on.

[mnmoderatedem]

13. unfortunately the trump stain on the country is permanent. Indelible.

it will never wash off.

historians will someday talk about trump as if he is the crazy uncle of which there is an unwritten rule where his name will never be mentioned at family reunions. But the damage he has done will never truly be undone. History will not forget.

[1WorldHope]

64. Nothing is permanent. Nt

[The Wizard]

14. We are a failed nation because it's

Last edited Sat Jul 1, 2023, 04:46 PM - Edit history (1)

easier to give the finger than a helping hand. We are failed because the bribing class writes the laws. We are failed because ignorance now trumps education (deliberate pun). The reasons for our failure are many but the primary cause of our failure is minority rule because one Party gamed the system and the working class spends all of its resources to stay above water, thus ensuring a permanent underclass that benefits the wealthy elites.
The GQP propaganda operation has influenced enough of the working class to vote against their own interests by appealing to the worst fears and lowest instincts. Ignorance has its price.

[Skittles]

16. I hear you Nance

these people have long disgraced themselves but now they are disgracing my beloved country

[Model35mech]

17. Since the Roman empire took control of Chrisitanity it's been a tool

box fully capable of doing the work of secular power centers.

In the later 50's and 60's the evangelical movement was against becoming rich and putting pursuit of money on a pedestal. Now the evangelicals see the acquisition of wealth as a blazing ensign that God has blessed someone.

Churches being created by in-group humans for the benefit of in-group humans institutionalize all human flaws. And the legacy of historical awe awarded to churches allows them to keep doing it.

[Vinca]

19. My husband is a Canadian and when we married in 1973 we almost moved to Canada to

start our life together. I can't remember why we changed our minds, but we're kind of regretting it now.

[tavernier]

22. Too damn cold.

That’s why most people don’t relocate to Canada. You’ve got to love a cold climate year around and most don’t.

[NanceGreggs]

25. Just a correction here.

Canada does not have a year-round cold climate.

I am in Toronto, and I am sitting in front of my air-conditioner (running at full blast) as I write this.

I HATE the heat, and only wish that Canada was cold year-round. But it's not.

The idea that Canada is cold year-round is right up there with the myth that Canadians live in igloos.

[tavernier]

27. I was raised in Michigan.

We were still getting snow in April when the rest of the country had been grilling burgers outdoors and playing ball in shorts for weeks. And in the winter months would go by when we didn’t see a sunny day. Toronto had the same weather we did and it’s certainly tolerable but the rest of Canada is north of Toronto.

I very much take your point, though. I have friends in Toronto who worry about us when another mass shooting occurs and scratch their heads when I tell them the cost of medical bills and insurance. But every winter they spend their allotted time down here by the ocean with me and grumble when it’s time to go back.

[NanceGreggs]

32. You still haven't explained ...

... how Canada has a cold weather climate year-round - when it clearly doesn't.

Right now there are people in the southern states dying from the heat. Does that make the entire US a too-hot-to-survive country?

[Vinca]

31. I'm a cold weather person - hate the heat. Last summer we baked in southern NH and

I was ready to move to the Yukon!

[NanceGreggs]

33. I hear ya!

My dream vacation is to travel to the coldest place on earth in the middle of August!

[DFW]

24. I'm not there yet

After all, I live in a country that perpetrated one of the worst crimes against humanity, and that was less than a century ago. It took a total devastation of the country to stop it, and it took an international community led and inspired by US, the United States, to set them back on a path to where that same country is now the number one destination where refugees fleeing South Asia, the Middle East and all of Africa want to come.

I make no bones about where I'm from, as well as the misery that we are also capable of creating. There's no use in denying it, just ask my German wife. We got our daughters dual citizenship at birth, and they did so for their children when they were born. I learned to speak eight other European languages than my own native English, both to facilitate work and travel, but also to be able to show my European colleagues that Americans can be just as interested in their culture as they can be interested in ours. It works.

Ignorance is our worst enemy. Ignorance of science, ignorance of other cultures, ignorance that religion does not equal truth (that's why they call it "faith" and not reality), ignorance that we are NOT born better than others, and ignorance that everyone is NOT given an equal chance at birth.

[FakeNoose]

30. +1000 "Ignorance is our worst enemy"

Well said, my friend!

[DFW]

63. For anyone considering relocating to Toronto--get in line:

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=carson%2Bsilverheels#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:b3d54da9,vid:RwwUuxV9It4

[70sEraVet]

29. The hell of it is, MOST people in the US are DECENT people, and even though we are supposed ...

to be a democracy, the minority of bigoted, conspiracy-minded zealots manage to maintain much of our political power.

[NanceGreggs]

34. Agreed.

It is a sad reflection on 'democracy' when the few who oppose it are given megaphones by 'elected officials' in order to make their voices loud enough to drown out the decent sane majority.

[sarcasmo]

35. My friend played hockey in Oshawa years back, and loved my time in the Toronto area.

[Timeflyer]

36. Florida dems hope Canada doesn't build a wall, just in case DeSantis 2024...

and I'm not exaggerating. He will destroy America, and we'll need a refuge.

[dalton99a]

37. Kick

[Swede]

38. Happy Canada Day, eh?

This Canadian is appalled by what is happening in the USA. And unfortunately is seeping in up here.
DU reminds me daily that most Americans are more appalled than I.

[usonian]

39. I harbor no delusions.

JFK was assassinated when I was in junior high. Then MLK, RFK and others who are swept under the historical rug.

People are people, regardless of country. I reach out to them. If some are too busy loading ammo in the basement, too bad for them.

I don't waste time arguing with fools who are in self-defeating cults that either "legitimize" sick behavior or who turn their backs on it.

It's still a world of people.

Until AI replaces us all.

[Stuart G]

40. Joe Biden is a "Class Act" and someone to be "Proud Of"

[Tom Rinaldo]

41. So sadly true and very well said, Nance

Thank you for putting this into words. I have always been fiercely proud of America's revolutionary legacy. I still am. We played a critical role in human history. The American Revolution preceded the French Revolution, in an era when throughout most of the world individual families ruled nations as a birthright, or worse still, as an alleged divine right.

At our founding we articulated principles far more noble than we were capable of fully embracing at the time. It doesn't take holding a degree in history to see that. We fell horribly short of that vision, but the vision itself held power that over the course of generations inspired millions of us to continually do more to make it real. By and large we kept inching forward toward that more perfect union, to that more just society. It is incredibly painful now to watch us slipping backwards. It is hard to be proud of America today, but I remain hopeful that we can regroup, and continue the march forward toward being the inclusive and just nation that it is still in our destiny to become.

[ggma]

48. Thank you.

That was eloquently written and it touches on a lot of my feelings. The pride of being an American and the shame seem to always be jostling each other to be in front.

gg

[JonAndKatePlusABird]

51. Well said

And very good to keep in mind when I want to throw the baby out with the bath water.

[brooklynite]

44. Your approach is wrong...

By foregoing the flag, you give the RWers the opportunity to claim it.

I'm not ashamed of my country, because RWers don't exclusively represent it.

[LiberalFighter]

45. I'm sure there will be more moments you can take pride.

[Old Crank]

46. Canadian by birth

Naturalised US Citizen, now living in Germany. Wondering just what happened to the country my parents moved me to for high school. Landed in Germany before the Trump election. Now working to get my daughter to be able to stay here because the US is becoming too dangerous for anyone other than old white men. I have found out that I'm still a Canadian and if Germany doesn't work out that will be plan B.
Sorry to say but I just don't want to live with the hate that has been allowed to drive the whole political side of life.

[Permanut]

47. Well said, you've spoken for millions..

And Toronto is my second favorite city on the planet, right behind my home town, Portland, Oregon.

[Hope22]

49. You can never let your guard down.

Q thrives across the globe. Watching this in slow motion in disbelief being pulled against our will into fascism is beyond painful. It can happen anywhere! My Canadian friends who live in Canada think they are immune and I certainly hope so but it is not a given. That being said I am happy that you are in Canada. Celebrate and celebrate some more. I have begged my friend who has duel citizenship to head north. He won’t go without his friends. Too late we are all too old to be taken in but he could go. Since the creation of ‘homeland security’ the writing has been on the wall here. Time will tell.

[wiggs]

50. Just got back from British Columbia. Canadians were SO nice! And when asked where we were from,

and we said California, they seemed to brighten and relate...like when we traveled overseas long ago. California still has some cred for something.

[calimary]

53. Bikinis and beaches and Hollywood.

When we lived in SoCal, that’s all our out-of-town friends wanted to see.

But more power to Canada! It always sounds more sane up there than here. Ever since Pox Noise got established, our whole country has gone downhill. Actually, even before that, when limbaugh became a household name.

There have always been nutcases and knuckledraggers but it seems so radically much worse nowadays.

[ExWhoDoesntCare]

52. They haven't abandoned the teachings of the demigod at all

He said he came to bring divisiveness, and they're all for that.

He considered foreigners "dogs," and so do they.

He thought it was okay to torture people for thought crimes--and so do they.

Maybe you need to read the book and stop trying to paint them as not-christians with the ridiculous quotation mark modifier, and accept that they're doing what they've always done best: Do their damnedest to force everyone to be like them, and anyone who resists gets to be hurt in the worst ways imaginable. Forever.

That has been consistent for the religion for all of its history.

[Evolve Dammit]

54. Thanks for sharing that Nance. I am envious and also aware that Canada has a past as well. But

faring far better than the US in so many ways. Hope the fires can be controlled. We hear virtually nothing in the US about Canada as you are probably aware. Pathetic IMHO.
Best wishes,
ED

[mgardener]

55. My daughter

Had just gone up to study at McGill about a month before 9/11.
She got her first lesson in how the US was really seen by the rest of the world.

It was great experience for her and we loved visiting the city.
I am not so proud of many of my fellow American either.
It 's a sad situation.

[Hekate]

56. I understand, Nance. I have a US flag I proudly carried in marches against Bush the Lesser...

That’s how I ended up with the VFP, who marched with the Flag because they had fought for it and it was theirs.
It didn’t go on my front porch only because I didn’t have a bracket, but I always kept that feeling that this is my country and the likes of Bush-Cheney can’t take that away from me.

Then came Trump and the vicious backlash, and I needn’t say more. I love Joe Biden as I loved Barack Obama, but there is a tide in this country that they cannot fix on their own. I fear for us all.

And there are times I feel so ashamed.

There is a bracket for the flag at the front of the house we bought 6 years ago — but I have no inclination at all to put out the flag of my country. I will get a Pride flag for next June, as a nod to my neighbors up the hill who decided they’d hold the First Annual (name of our neighborhood) LGTBQ+ BBQ this June.

There are good people still striving to make us better.

Loveya Nance.

[ShazzieB]

58. I would love to be able to move to Canada.

But I don't think you can do that unless you're a lot younger than we are.

I'm actually eligible for UK citizenship, but I don't want to move that far away from my daughter. Parts of southern Ontario, including Toronto, are less than a day's drive from here, which feels a lot less daunting to me than being on the other side of an ocean, lol. Also, I'm sure Canada would be less of a culture shock and feel more like home.

I feel like we're probably going to be staying here, come what may.

[NanceGreggs]

61. If you're serious about moving here ...

... I would urge you too look into whether you qualify. I know what the 'rules' were when I came here, but also know they are different now than they were fifty years ago - so I can't be of any assistance in that regard.

So do some research. You may find that the path to becoming a Canadian resident is - depending on your personal circumstance - easier than you think.

I did experience some 'culture shock' when I arrived here - everything was closed on Sundays, etc. - but those things no longer exist.

My biggest hurdle was my thick Brooklyn accent. I spent an hour at my husband's office, talking to his Canadian staff while he was in a business meeting. They later told him, "Your wife seems really nice, but we really didn't understand most of what she was saying."

[Deuxcents]

65. Home is where the heart is and you're happy where you are

With your citizenships, you can be and feel as you please. I’m 76 and have no skills to offer if I wanted to go to Canada or anywhere. I don’t even have a passport but to be honest..I’ve thought about it. I have a long time couple who are friends wanting to leave and go overseas. I listen to them and my heart aches but I’m feeling so much like them, too. I’m happy for you, NanceeGreggs

[SleeplessinSoCal]

60. We watched "Inherit the Wind" last night.

From 1960. The play it was a response to McCarthyism about the Scopes Monkey trial of 1925. It has had several adaptations in part because it always seems to suit the times we live in.

This speech ending description of fanaticism struck like a thunderbolt last night as we watched:

[Martin68]

62. Nance, I get you. But I live in a place in the US where I am surrounded by nature within

driving distance of a major university and a small town that excels in restaurants and excellent live music. I am in a purple state where in some areas people are rabidly Trumpist. But our town is amazingly diverse because of a university and a refugee resettlement program that has been here since the 70s. I have lived in Canada (Ontario), as well as Venezuela, El Salvador, Colombia, Liberia, and Japan. What reliable journalism reports is that every country in the world is being affected by a right wing movement to move their country towards fascism. In countries that I always held up as models for the world we now see the ugly heads of fascism rising up. I've seen it in Canada, too. The U.S. has no monopoly on right wing rednecks.

We can still beat it, and I believe the odds are on our side in the long run. But wherever you go, it will affect you. I understand the shame you feel, and I feel it too because I think it is shameful what the right wing is saying and doing to this country. But I want to do what I can to fight it. Here.

[wendyb-NC]

66. Things have changed here

They have not changed for the better either. The SCOTUS, has dished out blow after blow, to rights in this country, in the past 12 years. The last 2 0r 3 have been a gut punch, with the assault on Roe.

Sometimes I wish I could move to Canada, with my low Social Security retirement income and lack of owned wealth in terms of property, I wouldn't be found suitable.

I'm going to do what I can here to vote the haters, corrupt and brainwashed, out of office. I hope to help get people in my area out to vote for Democrats. I want life to be an ongoing journey of possibility and gratitude, rather than a shame filled ordeal that feels like early damnation.

The plutocrats are cruel tyrants.

[Jedi Guy]

67. I know exactly what you mean.

I moved to Canada in 2012 since it made more sense for me to move there than for my wife to move to the States. Even though America was (and never has been) perfect, I didn't feel any need to apologize for America or being an American. I love and will always love my homeland, imperfect though it is.

Then along came the 2016 election. When Trump got the GOP nomination, my Canadian friends were astounded that they'd chosen him of all people. "Not to worry," I said. I held on to the hope America would do the right thing and elect Hillary. I thought she would win.

The day after the election, as I walked into work, my Canadian friends bombarded me with every variation of, "How could this happen?" you can imagine. I had no answers for them, no explanation I could offer that would make sense of the calamity from the previous night.

Then Trump took office and lurched from one debacle to another, to the growing disbelief and horror of me and my Canadian friends. When Biden won, it seemed like the nightmare was finally over.

The cherry on the sundae was January 6th, 2021. I vividly remember being at work and seeing the headline, "US CAPITOL BREACHED" blaring across CNN's homepage. I remember sitting there, watching the video and feeling chilled to the bone as I thought of the future of my homeland.

I don't foresee that I'll live in the States again, sadly. I'll go back to visit my folks every so often, but once they're gone, there'll be nothing left for me there.

[gulliver]

68. The extreme wings are getting way too much of a share of the conversation

Most people are reasonable, polite, cooperative. The vast majority are. But the unreasonable, impolite, and combative seem to get more attention than the need for them merits and their democratic, one-person-one-vote level of representation legitimizes.

The result is an embarrassing shit show, unintended consequences, backfires, and setbacks.

[Boomerproud]

69. Bookmarking. Wonderful OP and thread with the exception of a

Insulting low-count poster (poser) who made it to my ignore list.

[The Grand Illuminist]

71. Which brings to couple slightly rhetorical questions.

How far will one go to rectify this situation? Will it be worth the price of self-freedom and/or life if it goes to the last resort?

[Paladin]

72. You are fully entitled to your shame re the U.S. Glad you're safe in Canada. (nt)

[calimary]

73. Totally get it. And the reasoning behind it.

But we still miss you, Nance.

[MontanaMama]

74. +1

I’m really disturbed to see DUers going after Nance. There’s a global concerted effort to divide democrats and our liberal counterparts internationally. We should NOT play their game.

[calimary]

75. Totally and enthusiastically agreed!!!

We’re up against enough, from external sources. We shouldn’t be up against each other.