What good does the constant blaming of voters (or non-voters) do?

[BWdem4life]

Why do some people here insist on continuing to make posts re-blaming/shaming/calling out people who probably aren't even on this website? Or if they are, who aren't likely to change their ways?

Is this just a way to try and flush out "traitors"? Or is it a form of self-aggrandizement? Maybe some people just can't get over it?

I'm truly curious about one other thing: Why are the voters who either stayed home or didn't vote for Dukakis in 1988 not blamed for the beginning of the Bush era? I voted for Dukakis. I don't perennially post OPs complaining about the apparent lack of enthusiasm among Democratic or Dem-leaning people back then. And what good would it do me or the Democratic party in general if I did?

Just seems ridiculously petty and bitter.

Yes, I know about the ignore function. I suppose I could use it more often. Just wanted to say how ridiculous it looks to me.

[Silent3]

1. Why should posts here be judged on the basis "what good does it do"?

This is a discussion board. It's people talking about what they think and how they feel. Sometime people just vent their feelings. There's no requirement that every post be formulated to maximize possible public political benefit.

What's so hard to understand about that?

[OAITW r.2.0]

2. Sorry for people that don't understand the problems their ignorance creates.

Not our fault on DU.

What do you suggest as a reasonable response to unreasonable people?

[Autumn]

19. If someone doesn't vote for a politician it's not out of ignorance. It's because they don't like

that politician, that politician doesn't represent their values, or that politician has not done enough to earn their vote. Our country has two parties. Democrats/Liberals and Republicans/Conservatives. I'm not going to vote for any Conservative and I'm adult enough and smart enough to realize Conservatives aren't going to vote for a Liberal, unless the Republican party runs someone so completely odious like Trump. 2020 was an aberration, Trump was that fucking bad that I know several Conservatives that voted for Biden, holding their nose all the way.

[leftstreet]

21. +1

[LakeArenal]

3. Because some like simple answers to complex questions.

Because some really do see the glass half empty.

Because some refuse to see what voters have done in Kansas, Wisconsin and Michigan.

It isn’t any worse than lectures about “Trump has got to Go” on DU. Preaching to the choir.

[RockRaven]

4. Why do people always bang on about "never forget" (in either of its two most notable incarnations)?

Probably because they are very distressed by the consequences of what happened.

[BlueWaveNeverEnd]

5. none but they need to vent

[Lunabell]

6. It doesn't do any good.

Last edited Sat Apr 8, 2023, 02:19 AM - Edit history (1)

But, they're just angry and venting. What's going on is a direct result of HRC losing in '16. But, in my opinion, it doesn't do any good to ruminate the past. We MUST look for solutions.

Until then, I guess people will just continue to vent, rant and rave rather than offer up a solution to the problems going forth.

[murielm99]

7. I think a lot of the people who post here

do offer up solutions. Many of us are activists. Some of us have found places as election workers. We write LTTEs, call and write our representatives, attend town halls or hold elected positions such as precinct committeemen. We are on school boards, library boards or county boards. A lot of the people here would not be active if they had not found DU.

I am often critical of what I see here, too. But DU is doing some good for some of us.

[Lunabell]

10. Well, the christo-fascists can't use their misogynist tactics against Biden.

That's exactly what they did to HRC. Pure unadulterated misogyny and it worked in '16. And, gawd help me, susan sarandon needs to be, well, I can't say it here. Too violent.

[Cha]

8. We're not going to ignore what happened in 2016

as a direct Cause of what's happening in our country now.

Thank Goodness most on this forum want to Discuss it and not Ignore the history.

Stein Lied in Swing States Claiming there was no Difference between Hillary & Putin's Puppet.

Link to tweet

[mcar]

72. This +1000!

[Hortensis]

80. Expressing anger is a way to TRY to get through to those

who made a mistake that's done great harm to everyone, but who don't believe it and haven't changed. We're not angry at those who've since committed firmly with Democrats against the great threat, we're afraid because of those who haven't. At those who still, unbelievably, don't know we're good guys, and the only ones who can save our nation.

We ALL were done great harm by anti-Democratic deceits, and we SHOULD be angry. But together. Perniciously divided by lies meant to defeat us in 2016, we fell. United we're the majority, but every vote is needed.

So, of course it's important not to ignore the danger that some will once again be deceived into not voting their principles. Those who come here, even more than everyone else, need DU to be a safe place where they hear truth about us. And hopefully come to be rightfully angry themselves at the vote-suppressing deceits still being spread by the same people for the same purposes.

[Sympthsical]

9. Alleviates guilt

That certain choices that were made were perhaps not very good ones. And someone needs to be blamed for it all.

Why not make it useful? Use blame for an already disliked group to extirpate personal accountability for various decisions made.

It's win all around.

If I must blame groups for anything, I always go for Republicans and non-voters. There's literally a hundred and fifty million or so more of them than Stein voters or Bernie Bros.

It isn't about true things. It's about perpetuating the battle of who should be running things.

But I see how they get blended together.

[BlackSkimmer]

11. It's been going on here for as long as I can remember.

I always assume that the person is just blowing off steam, but your second paragraph is probably equally true. Sometimes they'e funny to read, but to me they seem kind of sad.

To constantly rend one's garments and shriek about some long-ago wrongdoing is so utterly useless. I prefer to look ahead.

[Demsrule86]

29. It wasn't that long ago, and as a woman who lost her rights because of it...I have the right

to be angry about it...and I am.

[BlackSkimmer]

34. I'm a woman too. You do you.

[Demsrule86]

69. I do me...and let me say I almost died at 42 in Georgia. I had a right to life doctor.

Who didn't treat me when I miscarried..waiting for hormones to drop. I had a scan and everything was over...no heartbeat no fetus. I hemorrhaged in my kitchen four days after I began spotting. I had three small kids. My son ran to a neighbor who drove me to the hospital. I lived in near Atlanta and traffic is awful...it was quicker than calling an ambulance. My holy doctor put me in a room with no IV and no treatment of any kind and no call button while he checked those pesky hormones.

Lucky for me, hubs who was traveling got on a plane when I called that morning before I hemorrhaged and told him I was in trouble. He arrived to find me unconscious and laying in a pool of blood. There was blood everywhere on the floor on the bed. He screamed bloody murder and fired the doctor. A young resident saved my life. I was infertile at that point thanks to this shitty doctor. I needed multiple transfusions and platelets...spent three weeks in the hospital in the maternity ward which was torture. I have not been able to donate blood since. So, I despise those who claim to be on our side and yet helped elect Trump. It is inexcusable and unforgivable. Hillary was our only chance to prevent the misery that Trump inflicted on this country. More women will die now. Had the Georgia law been in effect when I miscarried, I doubt I would be here today.

[RandiFan1290]

12. It's a trolling tactic to keep us fighting with each other. nt

[betsuni]

13. Who's trolling? Supporters of Democrats who don't like it when people don't vote for Democrats?

[Scrivener7]

17. No. They all went to Jackpine Radicals and then disappeared.

[Demsrule86]

30. Not all of them...

[Scrivener7]

32. Well... true.

[BlackSkimmer]

55. I haven't seen any of them here in ages.

I can think of one who is still here, but he seems to keep a relatively low profile since that time.

I've seen no one call to primary Joe or speak against Kamela.

I do remember the Hillary-haters, but if they're here, they keep that shit on the DL.

[demmiblue]

65. I tend to agree, for the most part.

And always the same people over and over again.

[MrsCoffee]

14. You wouldn't be asking this question if you were here seven or eight years ago....

Just saying.

[Paladin]

25. +1000. (nt)

[Demsrule86]

31. That is very true.

[maxrandb]

15. Maybe it's to point out that voting matters

Maybe it's to encourage people on this forum to go out and talk to their family, friends, co-workers, neighbors and social groups about the importance of voting.

Maybe it's to point out how differently things would be if we truly realized that we are in a war for the very soul of our nation and we need to act like it.

It is very much like telling people they shouldn't drink a 5TH of vodka and get behind the wheel of a car.

We are seriously at a point where there is an obvious choice. Our weapon in this war is either going to be a peaceful vote, or violence and blood, because that is where the other party is pushing us.

Women and girls are dying, because people did not vote, or did not take their vote seriously.

Elementary School children are being slaughtered, because people did not vote, or did not take their vote seriously.

People are not safe at school, at work, at the movies, at a restaurant, in a state capitol, at a parade, at a concert, at a pizza place, in a church, synagogue or mosque, at a Walmart, on a highway, at a dance studio...etc., to infinity, because people did not vote or take their vote seriously.

Law enforcement is murdering people in the streets, because people did not vote, or did not take their vote seriously.

Racism, fascism, misogyny, hatred and white supremacy are flourishing in this country, because people did not vote, or did not take their vote seriously.

Maybe it's to encourage people to vote while they still can, because the alternative is unthinkable.

[sheshe2]

51. Well said, max.

[Ferrets are Cool]

16. #1 Your post is condescending. #2 People can post what they want to here as long as it is

within community guidelines. #1 Sometimes people just like to vent and get things off their chests...just like I just did.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

18. People feel better when they have someone to blame.

[maxrandb]

20. Not voting in today's America

Is like arguing that the Civil War was unnecessary because "slavery was eventually going to end anyway"

[CTyankee]

24. And the act of voting FEELS GOOD! If you are old and maybe sick or disabled now, you know that

you can still VOTE, dammit!

[Earth-shine]

22. Posting things that everyone will agree with is an easy way to show you are a devout

member of that group.

From a sociological perspective, people compete for status within a group.

On DU, people often post to show they are the truest Democrat, the most knowledgeable, the most moral, the most condescending, and the most needy of attention.

OPs that blame and shame others for Hillary's loss are a recurring theme and an easy way to create a popular thread.

Of course it really sucked and was quite world-changing that she lost. And there are various reasons we can point to. Saying she needed more voters from the far left is obvious. Blaming them is not useful. A conversation about how to get those votes could be more productive.

[BlackSkimmer]

23. Lol.

Nailed it.

[ProfessorGAC]

58. Nope

You & the poster are engaging in 2 dimensional thinking (when the variables are far more numerous) & an unattractive smugness.

[BlackSkimmer]

78. Ah, thank you for that.

Since you are a "professor", you no doubt are more intelligent than I.

I must bow to your personal insult.

Though I've found, over the years, that those who resort to personal attacks are usually on the losing side of a "two dimensional" argument in thinking.

[ProfessorGAC]

79. Unbrilliant

Don't want to be called smug? Don't act smug.

[BlackSkimmer]

81. Oh goodness!

A sparkling riposte, sir!

[MrsCoffee]

33. There is a place for both conversations.

Sometimes you can't get to the how to be better part without looking back at what went wrong.

[Earth-shine]

36. There have been plenty of OPs over these past six or so years about why she lost.

My post is about why people suddenly make a new OP about old issues that already won, lost, or remain contentious. It was the subject of this particular OP.

[MrsCoffee]

39. If you can't see why someone might bring this up in light of current events, I can't help you

understand. In light of events over the years, but in the last seven years in particular.

Each time fascism takes a step forward, expect to hear about it again. Because we have another huge election coming up with people already suggesting we primary Biden.

We probably can't be reminded often enough of history in hopes that we don't see any repeats of what led us to where we are now.

[Earth-shine]

41. Apparently, you can't help me, because it was not a discussion about fascism.

The OP is specifically about blame-shaming far-left voters.

I see no need to have further discussion about Hillary's loss from OPs that read like outbursts and state obvious points.

If we want their votes, we must attract them.

I find your post to be laughably condescending. It won't stick to me.

[MrsCoffee]

43. If they participated in the behavior that those OP's are calling out, perhaps reminders are needed.

If you see no need to further have those discussions, don't participate in those discussions then. Pretty simple.

[Earth-shine]

44. Again, you far from the subject of this particular OP, to which I have responded.

I find discussions of Hillary's loss to be trite. It's the same points over and over again. It was Comey's fault, Bernie's fault, the voters' fault, the media's fault, etc. The reality is it was all at fault and came together as a perfect-enough storm to trash our government.

If you would like to discuss fascism per se, start an OP.

My beloved neighbor, Ben Ferencz has died. He was a champion against fascism. You and I are pipsqueeks fighting over the meaning of words, on subjects where we fully agree.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100217808678

[Demsrule86]

45. You do not get to decide what people can or can't post. I suggest you can use both the ignore

Button and the trash function for posts that don't interest you... I find your almost, well attack on another poster curious.

And I see a hint of the old excuses about not voting for Hillary in 16...such as Hillary needed to 'earn' votes in the General and others. Sorry Hillary was the only one who could have stopped Trump. He has unleashed hell on this country.
And there can be no excuse for not voting for Hillary in the General. Any attempt to justify this attitude seems an attempt to rewrite history.

And I see a more than a few posts which suggest primarying President Biden or the old BS about Democratic candidates somehow not earning votes in the General. Everytime a sitting president is primaried, we lose the General election. Vote Demoratic in a General always or the GOP wins. And never support third parties or primary a sitting president or again the GOP wins which likely would be the end of our Republic.

[Earth-shine]

47. What you have posted is just ego-driven, non-sequitor generalities without substance or evidence.

Time and again you post just to prove you are a righteous member of a group.

Nice user name.

You have a need to be right, so you post strawman arguments. You supply no useful info.

Nothing in your posts relate to the OP. You just want to argue about things we all agree on.

There are no serious posts on DU suggesting primarying Biden. This is in your mind. A few trolls have you riled up.

Put up or shut up. Show me a post!

[Demsrule86]

62. Seriously. The fact that you don't understand how this post has meaning in this thread shows that

you really won't listen. Let me make it clear...some on our side particularly the Greens and some others helped Trump win and Hillary lose in 16. I have seen questionable posts already. So I think some may need a reminder of the disaster that was 16...it didn't have to be that way. And you don't agree with me as I see nothing wrong with this post. And if I didn't like it. I would trash it. I certainly would not say it needs to be taken down because it doesn't.

[BlackSkimmer]

53. Could you please link to posts that suggest primarying Biden?

I haven't seen those.

[Demsrule86]

63. Sure...it has been happening a while. There are so many posts...

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1016344359

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100217579135

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100217595486

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100217723217

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100217682216#post39

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100216616727

Go through Google.

[MrsCoffee]

46. I'll start an OP when I feel like it.

The OP asked what good they do. You made some snarky reply. I stated what good I think they do. Now you wanna try to tell me I can’t talk about that either?

Lol.

Get real.

[MrsCoffee]

49. And you are just being rude to be rude.

Reminds me why we have those OP’s.

[Cha]

70. Mahalo, Mrs Coffee!

[MrsCoffee]

73. Mahalo, Cha!

[Cha]

64. Oh We Will Discuss the History of Why

We Got to This Place in History.

And, that Includes 3rd Party LIES In the Swing States that Hillary and trump were the same.

Link to tweet

[LetMyPeopleVote]

60. The reason for these posts are the we are living with the consequences of Hillary's defeat

I was on the Clinton Victory Counsel team and was a Clinton delegate to the Philadelphia National Convention. Control of the SCOTUS was on the ballot and we are living with the consequences of people who decided that control of the courts was not an important issue.

Link to tweet

We lost Roe v. Wade due to TFG being able to appoint 3 judges to the SCOTUS. Now the asshole judges that TFG was able to appoint are pushing the concept of fetal personhood through the courts

Link to tweet

You may not think these issues are important but many of us do.

[Demsrule86]

35. The problem you have despite the odd sociological slant is that Hillary would have won had some

on the left and the Green asshats not worked in rust-belt states to defeat her. She barely lost the General but we the people lost everything. We were told by that moron Brianna Grey that courts didn't matter and that Trump would be better than Hillary. And some complete fools believed this tripe. Now we have lost Roe and our Republic barely survived an insurrection on January 6th, 2021. LGBTQ, people of color, and women are under Attack.

And states have become increasingly fascist as has the Republic Party. Twice in my lifetime...those on our side have helped elect Republicans... the first time was in 2000 when Gore lost...Bush gave us endless war and ultimately economic collapse. The second time was in 2016. And Trump literally killed millions of Americans with Covid, deregulated, and passed more tax cuts. He stole migrant kids from their families many of who are no doubt working in righty state slaughterhouses today. His last act was an attempt to overthrow our Republic. I will never forget or forgive.

[Earth-shine]

38. Your post does not address the subject of mine.

Rather, I'd say from your post, you have made my point. You have fallen right into this "sociological" pit.

If I tell you that "you are a truer, bluer Democrat than many" would it make you feel good?

How dare you be condescending! Don't talk to me as if I didn't vote for her.

[Cha]

71. I think Demsrule was being Accurate.

She's a Valued member of this board.

She deserves to be Praised.

[Demsrule86]

77. Thank you Cha! Your are so kind...

[Cha]

83. You're Welcome, Dems💙

[betsuni]

50. +1

[demmiblue]

66. Interesting. +1

[SYFROYH]

68. Not to mention all the "good" Democrats who told unhappy lefties to eff-off

There was a tremendous amount of hubris among the "good" Democrats who grew weary of the unhappy lefties voicing their opinion. They just wouldn't shut up and commit to HRC.

So they effed-off.

[Demsrule86]

76. And there in lies the problem. There should have been no argument about voting for Hillary in

the General. I hope you are wrong and unhappy lefties didn't let us down and cause us to lose Roe, and almost lose our Republic.

[lapucelle]

87. A way of getting third party voters and lazy stay at homes

to do the right thing is to remind them of the consequences of the 2000 and 2016 elections. Too bad that a gentle FAFO doesn't seem to work on those folks.

Third party voters and those who "protested" by staying home fancied themselves as morally superior in both 2000 and 2016. How many times were Democrats subjected to the bleating refrain "the lesser of two evils is still evil", as if Al Gore and Hillary Clinton were objectively even remotely evil? Which Democrat is going to be next on their "apocryphally evil" list?

We all have to live with the consequences of the 2000 and 2016 elections. Third party voters and those who couldn't bother to vote have to live with the personal consequences of their decisions.

Democrats don't want it to happen a third time in this relatively young century.

[edhopper]

26. Because there are many discussions that have nothing to do

with what we on this board do or should do.
Sometimes we just talk about the country as a whole and what we see.
Under your narrow limits to DU discussion, we should never discuss what Tucker Carlson said, since we don't listen to him.
Or what any GOP idiot from a deep Red district says or does, since we can't vote them out.
What about discussing foreign leaders?
DU is an open forum for like minded Democrats.

And FYI the voters are to blame for giving us Trump and the GOP Congress as well as the fascist States we have to deal with.

[treestar]

27. It is on the voters

they all have a choice whether to register or not, whether to vote or not, or who to vote for.

We all have a duty to vote. We should not demand our vote be "earned" as we have to make a choice, choosing that none of the "earned" my vote and therefore not voting is me not participating and then blaming whoever for Republican wins.

Those who don't vote are the problem. They think they are above it all.

How to convince them is a different story, and we don't have enough about that, maybe we are not sure what to do. But it might mean giving up a lot of our purist attitudes.

Blaming the media happens and it is understandable, but yet the voters don't have to let them media lead them by the nose.

There's not enough emphasis on the responsibility of participating in self government. Being lazy, above it all, or complacent is the issue. DUers may not be and feel too much falls on them.

[Demsrule86]

28. I wish it was in the past but there were posts where we were breathlessly informed

that some would vote for Marriane whatever the hell her name is or Kennedy who is an anti-vaxer who was encouraged to run by his best bud Bannon. I would hope that people would understand how important it is to support an incumbent Democratic president.

[ornotna]

37. It does get tedious

Trash thread is your friend.

[brooklynite]

42. I could care less if people are angry at voters who supported Trump et al...

...as long as they don't insist that we forget about trying to win them back.

[betsuni]

52. Holding feet to the fire. Earn our respect.

This is, after all, a forum for supporters of the Democratic Party.

[Midwestern Democrat]

54. It would be like a businessman blaming customers over for the failure of his business or a

television producer blaming the audience for the cancellation of his series. It would be equally asinine for a political party to blame the electorate for an election loss. The businessman, the TV producer, and the political party has to deal with the customer base/audience/electorate THAT EXISTS not the one THAT THEY WISH EXISTED.

[MrsCoffee]

56. But some customers amplified lies about the business owner and tried to set the business on fire.

It was basically arson with several entities at once pouring fuel on the fire.

None of them get a pass. Especially those who planted those lies and doubts.

The fact that the business owner was still able to outsell the competition by millions should demonstrably show that the business itself was rock solid.

Investigation into arson is always vital.

[sheshe2]

61. Great post!

[ecstatic]

57. I think it's just venting due to anger and feeling helpless

We've lost rights. History is being erased. The GOP is lawless with impunity. Insurrectionists are still free. It's not clear what direction this country is headed in or if we can stop the creeping fascism.

So yeah, it's easy to turn to the blame game in times like this. I'm sure I've done it as well. People have to channel their anger somewhere. Maybe posting about it is therapeutic and helps relieve some of the tension and anger.

You're right though, the blame game is not helpful or productive, but neither is calling people out on it. Instead of turning on each other, I think it would be more productive for us to figure out a way to regroup, organize and channel our frustrations into something useful. Marching orders. We don't have to wait until next year to get started:

https://events.democrats.org/

https://resist.bot/

[dembotoz]

59. the vile have power due to the voters that put them there

voters who would send many of the folks here on du to prison or worse without raising an eyebrow.

Home grown atrocities do not occur in a vacuum

Do i trust republicans? oh hell no
and they do not trust me either.

I do not give them a pass for electing the vermin they do

[nini]

67. You really don't understand that frustration?

If people don’t wake up and vote even if their preferred candidate isn’t the nominee this country is going to continue to slide into full blown fascism. Expecting fellow citizens to not take Democracy for granted is the battle of our lifetimes and venting about it is ok.

So yea I’ll be petty and bitter, and be concerned some aren’t doing enough.

[Hortensis]

74. We state what we know to be right about Democrats so that others will know it too.

It's not like it's over. 2016 is still unfolding, and the same bad actors are still seeking out victims to deceive about who we are and what we believe in.

There even really are people who, against all evidence, STILL believe Democrats are mostly the same as Republicans. Now events have forced tweaking the message to "Republicans are worse," but both are STILL bad, betraying choices.

The old "tell a lie often enough..."? Someone they should have been able to trust to tell them truth instead told them that every day for years and it took. As we were forced to witness.

[Just A Box Of Rain]

75. Well said.

[Demsrule86]

82. Excellent post...

[betsuni]

85. The argument is becoming that both sides same because capitalist.

Then European countries have to remind them: Ahem, we're not socialist, duh, we're capitalist too. Stop daydreaming.

[Hortensis]

86. :) "Mais nous ne sommes pas socialistes!"

The very idea that the enviable post-work lifestyles the French are fighting to keep from being shortened by even two years could be supported by a socialist economy...

We should be moving toward the social policies of Europe's advanced liberal democracies. By voting to give them to ourselves.

[area51]

84. k&r n/t