I have trouble criticizing people on Staten Island who ask for life-sustaining help

[CreekDog]

we here don't want anybody to die or suffer in ways that risk their life or health.

anyone who is SHOULD speak up and tell us what they are going through so it can be fixed.

yes EVEN if some of them contributed to their circumstances (I'm sure many have not, however).

[alcibiades_mystery]

1. Agreed

Some of the "shoulda known better" posts are just dumb.

People need help. Luckily, we have competent people on the job working hard to help them.

[awake]

2. While I agree that it is hard seeing people suffer & the loss of life is very sad

The media is looking for screw ups in providing help, so they go to Staten Island and show the suffering without pointing out that every one there was told to leave before the storm hit. M$M had to find a story to show the the government is not doing its job. Yes is sad that people are stuck with out food or water and we should do what we can to help but let us not forget they were all told that they would need at least one weeks worth of supplies to survive the storm. I heard some body complaining that N.Y. city was going to drain a tunnel of water and should be helping those who stayed on Staten Island instead, well I bet more people will be helped by a dry tunnel than the few people who decided to stay in harms way. It is amazing how quickly N.Y. city with help from FEMA is getting back and running, but that story is not the one that will help RobMe so M$M finds some thing to complain about.

[kestrel91316]

6. I don't recall any order to evacuate ALL OF STATEN ISLAND.

So people who try to blame them for their situation are just assholes, IMHO.

The pumps being used to drain tunnels are of no value in rehousing and feeding people. The City of New York IS capable of walking and chewing bubble gum at the same time.

[awake]

10. I am not trying to "blame them for their situation"

I do feel their pain and it is terrible that 19 people died. I was more concerned that the media was hyping a story and not being helpful. The complaint about why are the tunnels being drained when people on Staten Island need food and water was the story that NBC broadcast. As I see it the only assholes are the press who are promoting fear. Ever one in the path of the storm was asked to be ready for days with out water, power and food. Yes we need to help people in distress but how many times have we watched people try to ride out a storm with out been prepared then to complain about how long it takes to help them out. We are not talking about people stuck on their roofs in New Orleans we are talking about the press getting angry reactions and using them to make a good story rather that using their communications skills to help calm the situation and get the right people to help out with what is needed.

[markpkessinger]

25. ALL of Staten Island has not sustained severe damage n/t

[Ian David]

51. +1000 n/t

[Melinda]

53. Where do you get the residents were told they'd need "one weeks" of supplies from?

I've seen this several places, but without any cite, and it confuses the hell outta me. Thanks in advance.

[onethatcares]

3. my feelings

are that everything cannot be done at once. Sometimes it takes time to get to everyone.

It's like having 5 kids that are all wanting different things at the same time, one of them is going to be last,

no matter how hard you try.

[CreekDog]

8. Not arguing that it can be, but that people suffering need to make it known

sometimes you have to get the word out because in the crush of a natural disaster, people on the brink (there are so many) may get overlooked --and that won't be intentional. but there's a way to avoid it --say something.

it's okay to complain when you're in a dire situation.

i'd rather hear the complaint now than read the news that they found a body days later.

that's all i'm saying.

[texasmomof3]

4. having experienced this

exact situation I have have very mixed feelings. They were told to leave yes. Should they have gone, yes. However, when you are looking at your home and your life it is a very very very hard thing to just walk away from. It is very hard emotionally. There is also a very real concern of getting back to your home and protecting what is left. I for one will never ride out anything more than a Cat 1 again. After experiencing it, my home as precious as it is can be rebuilt. These folks had no perspective since these types of storms are not common. It just isn't an easy black and white decision when you are in the middle of it.

What I don't understand is not having provisions on hand to last more than 4 days. Maybe again this comes with not having had anything of this magnitude to deal with before. Water shouldn't be an issue. Fill your tubs and every can, jar, cup, tub you have and go buy as much as you can. Showers won't happen but you won't be left without. Buy enough canned food so that every member of your family has 3 cans a day of something. No it won't be what you are in the mood for but it will be more than enough to keep you out of garbage cans.

That being said, I do understand that there are people with NOTHING left and those people I don't expect to have any provisions. Believe me, I know. There are elderly and sick that need help too. I understand that. Those are the people that should get help first.

I think if any "blame" falls it is on those who are "uncomfortable" vs those that need life saving help. We aren't a country that likes or experiences discomfort often. Sometimes the lines get blurred.

[Comrade_McKenzie]

5. Fine. But where are the stories of everything going well? nt

[durablend]

9. From where?

You expect that from the media? They're only concern is with putting Romney in office no matter who they have to smear to do it.

[blue_heron]

7. Lack of Power/Communication and sleep and food/water

I think the combination of those things, especially the first, can ignite the source of frantic worry that help is not on the way, or that others are getting more help than they are. If they can't listen to tv or are being told incorrect or incomplete information, then hysteria rises, just as the media arrives. They were hit by more concentrated death and they are grieving not just for their own belongings but for their neighbors families and friends.

The Representative (Grimm), in my opinion, is not doing his job as a leader. Instead of calming them all down like Governor Christie is saying it's okay, it's awful, but we will rebuild, he is stirring the angry pot.

[bullwinkle428]

11. The "fuck 'em all" posts do not reflect very well of DU. At all.

I don't give a shit if the people in the hardest-hit areas are Freepers, or if they always vote Republican. You've pretty much surrendered your right to your "liberal card" if you don't think they're worthy of help.

[awake]

12. Who said they "don't think they're worthy of help"?

[CreekDog]

13. some have said or suggested that they shouldn't complain

have justified it on the basis that they were warned to evacuate (some of them were in evacuation zones, but most of the island was not) and basically all remaining on the island are without basics and it's more than a few days now.

[awake]

15. I hope they get help soon

I just can not stand the media taking advantage of people in need to sell a story, it much better when they help out sharing information with people and letting FEMA know of the problem instead of blaming the government for not helping out.

[markpkessinger]

31. In a thread I started ...

... which you can read here, I never suggested the residents who are affected shouldn't complain. I was taking issue with people who were comparing the situation in Staten Island with the utterly inadequate planning and execution of evacuating people in the Lower Ninth Ward of New Orleans during Katrina. And I specifically said that folks on Staten Island were every bit as deserving of a compassionate and expeditious response. I think you are reading too much into posts.

[CreekDog]

32. So you're saying i was referring to your post

But suggesting i hadn't seen your post.

Hmmm.

Yes, i had read it.

No, this wasn't about your post.

There were lots of others!

[markpkessinger]

34. Fair enough -- I guess I haven't seen the others n/t

[nadinbrzezinski]

41. Creek is talking of some of us who are telling people

that emergency preparedness is a good idea, PERIOD. Somehow that translates to us being horrible people for even daring to sugest that.

Given I have done this disaster relief for real, and have issued evacuation orders, and have issued do not rescue in the middle of the storm orders, and have also issued logistics packages to go to shelters, I guess I am a horrible person. I mean, just talking from very real world experience here, not the fantasy some have. And yes, it is fantasy.

I am so horrible that to this day I carry plush toys when covering these stories as media, for kids who lost all.

But the mere conversation of disaster preparedness has been understood as being insensitive and being assholes.

Also none of us who have dared suggest this, have said that the people in the zone should just be left to their own devices because they did not prepare for this, or deign to listen to evacuation orders. But hey, Creek has concluded we have.

So what do you do?

I shrug my shoulders, it is DU after all.

[HiPointDem]

46. no he's not. he's taking issue with the multiple posters who respond to all complaints about lack

of relief with "they were told to evacuate & now they're whining, well that's what they get for being stupid.".

[woo me with science]

17. Thank you. nt

[markpkessinger]

30. Nowhere have I seen anybody suggest that...

... Do you have a link to any posts that say that?

[MelungeonWoman]

48. Here you go...

http://upload.democraticunderground.com/10021691076

I agree with the OP, posts like "Really Staten Island?????" irk me. I'll reserve my opinion of Sunnystarr in compliance with DU policy.

[nadinbrzezinski]

55. They might irk you, but that post has a point

Relief is actually ahead of schedule given this is an island. It makes logistics even that much harder.

Having done this shit for real, I, or any other person who has done this, can't just teleport the food there.

The tone might be brash, but it's truth.

[jeff47]

14. It depends on what they've done to get that help so far.

From the bits I've been able to track down, a good number of the people complaining are doing so without trying to where the help is located.

Aid showed up the day after the storm. Yet there's lots of people saying "I need ____". But I haven't found anyone saying "I went to see the Red Cross people, and they were out of ____", or "I can't get to where they're distributing ____".

I may be reading too much into their statements, but sure seems like they aren't trying to get to where the help is located.

[CreekDog]

16. how the hell are they supposed to know where the help is?

without power, communication?

from the comfort of your surroundings, you say this to them?

[jeff47]

20. Because the Internet is the only source of information

In an actual disaster, they broadcast it on the radio and tv for those who can receive it, and they put up fliers and tell the people patrolling for looters where to send people. And, believe it or not, real people talk to each other. Even after a disaster!

[CreekDog]

22. your statement conflicts with readily available information in the news

about what actually happened, what resources people had and when outside help was actually set up and available (not until Thursday afternoon).

[jeff47]

23. Actually, help was set up before the storm

In that they set up evacuation centers. Which also had supplies for evacuees.

Now, if the storm just ended and you're desperate for food and water....perhaps you would think "Maybe I should try that place everyone was telling me to go to before the storm?". Naaaaaah, instead you should call Hanity's radio show and declare this is just like the Lower 9th ward.

Look, I'm not some yahoo sitting on my ass tut-tutting people in a situation I'm not familiar with. I've been directly hit by hurricanes twice and trapped by blizzards twice (and saying that makes me realize I move far too often). I know what is going on. And I know this isn't Katrina where help just wasn't there.

Are people in trouble? Yes. But supplies will not be teleported to their doorstep.

[CreekDog]

27. not everyone was told to evacuate

what is with you people and saying that everyone who had a problem was told to evacuate and automatically knew where the relocation centers were?

how do you know?

you don't even know that not all people were in evacuation zones.

jeez.

[nadinbrzezinski]

42. You were told how you learn where food distribution centers are AFTER THE STORM

it is part of that emergency kit you are supposed to have at home. It is called a RADIO, with batteries or crank, or solar, or what have you. It is called the AM Band. EVERY FRACKING city has a designated emergency station in town. It is now time for you to find out which is yours. My town is 600 KOGO.

[CreekDog]

43. I wasn't at home you doofus

I was 3000 miles from home.

You think I had all that stuff in my freaking carry-on?

Jeez.

Here prepared? Yes, basically. 3000 miles from home where I barely can find my way around --NOOOO.

[nadinbrzezinski]

52. I carry an AM in trips you doofus

And we are talking of the situation for most folks trapped in a disaster zone, not travelers. You are using an exception to make a point. Next I know you will use the true populations at risk as the main example.

By the way during the EAST COAST power outage I had my trusty AM with me, we took proactive action due to it.

Oh and we were in a hotel, by the way.

[phylny]

47. It's not just about evacuation, it's about preparedness. Here in south central Virginia,

families I know, who had no expectation of being hit by the brunt of the hurricane, had jugs of water lined up, filled their bathtubs, and had extra food and toilet paper, laundry done, and cars gassed up. This probably happened because in July, many in this area lost power from a storm, and it didn't come on for days.

I am very sorry for the people who have lost loved ones, property, and who are frightened and panicked. I can totally understand it. But to be ill prepared when you were specifically told how to prepare is confusing, at best.

[nadinbrzezinski]

54. You will be told just heartless you are

This is the point many of us have been making. We are some horrible people.

So you are in good company.

[etherealtruth]

19. try to avoid criticizing the reactions of those that have just been traumatized by disaster

... just sayin'

No one can predict how one will act when traumatized.

It is easy for us to see what the appropriate action might be from the comfort of our warm homes and full stomaches

[jeff47]

21. I'm saying before declaring it an actual problem it should be an actual problem.

I have no problem with someone overwhelmed by the situation not knowing what to do.

What I have a problem is with people declaring this "Obama's Katrina" and trying to turn Staten Island into the Lower 9th ward. In the former case, help is there. In the latter, there was no help.

[CreekDog]

35. most of us weren't calling it Obama's Katrina

I actually like the way Obama's handled this and I know he takes this seriously.

That said, all I've been saying is that people having difficulty with life-affecting issues (food, shelter, clothing, water, etc.) NEED to speak up so that they can be identified and helped.

I don't want them to speak up if they are in need only to have people tell them to SHUT UP and be prepared next time.

The FIRST thing is to help those who need help NOW.

Sort out who was and wasn't prepared later and do something about it.

But NOW you help those in need, without judgement, help first. In matters of survival, our values dictate we HELP first, ask questions later.

Ever see a gunshot victim in the ER? Same thing.

[woo me with science]

18. Thank you. nt

[Iris]

24. Because you're a decent human being.

They seem to be scarce in the new millennium.

[Earth_First]

26. Good luck finding compassion on this issue...

There is a competing thread where there are 64 son of a bitches who Recommended a thread motherfucking those who stayed on Staten Island and deserve everything they got.

[treestar]

28. You mean they can't be criticized at all?

Even if they are criticizing people trying to help them in an unreasonable way?

Being a victim can give you a pass for a lot of things, but not everything. The government is doing a terrific job and some media want to undermine that - so they seek out those who complain the most. That's what is going on here.

[CreekDog]

36. I'm talking about people in life-compromising situations now

people having trouble getting, maintaining sustenance: (food, shelter, dry clothing, water, etc.).

yes, you sure as hell don't heap judgement on them when they're going through these things now.

later, if it's appropriate, sure.

now? to someone in harm's way? they need food and you're going to shake your finger at them and say "tsk tsk"?

that's not good human behavior.

[fadedrose]

29. I criticize the networks for not showing us fresh films

and damage EVERYWHERE. A lot of us were aggravated by the same couple of ladies saying the same thing every 20 minutes for 3 days, not aggravated by the ladies but by the repetition which in the end seemed callous..

They showed very little coverage of the subways and tunnel and the damage in NJ, NY, the Stock Market, and all over the place...

I feel terrible for them as we all do. And with climate change seeming an inevitable changemaker for all of us, our sympathy will be all gone and we
'll have suffering instead.

[NutmegYankee]

33. Agree. They don't need criticism, that's just kicking them when they are down.

If they weren't prepared, they most definitely know it by now.

[flvegan]

37. Why? Other alleged liberal/lefty DUers have no issue with it?

They didn't prepare enouth to the concerns of those passing judgment. Regardless of ability, they should be dead. Fuck them.

Did I get that memo right?

[eqfan592]

39. Got a link to a post with sentiments even close to that?

[Quixote1818]

38. When someone loses their house and in some cases their family, I can put up with them

not being in such a great mood and lashing out in anger. They are in shock right now.

[CreekDog]

40. thanks, that's really all I'm saying

is to have patience, understanding and putting their immediate needs above our own need for judgement and answers.

[coldwaterintheface]

44. I don't have a problem with it at all

if you were told to leave and you choose to stay, TS you are getting what you wanted STFU.

[HiPointDem]

45. +1

[MelungeonWoman]

49. K&R

Perhaps someone should create a post that clearly states that NOT ALL OF STATEN ISLAND WAS EVACUATED, so everybody understands that basic fact.

[TheKentuckian]

50. We have more than our share of heartless fucks. Republicanism is a disease and Democrats are

catching it fast.

That or the same fuckers just switched sides but retained the same convictions.

Increasingly DU appears to have more conservatives than Free Republic, since they have none being a den of reactionaries and radical regressives and we having a ton, pretending at moderation by pointing out the extremity of the mainstream right.