Never forget: government is the reason the death toll from Sandy was 80, and not 80,000 or 800,000.

[phantom power]

The entire eastern seaboard knew the storm was coming, days in advance, thanks to government satellites and weather services.

They had time to prepare for massive storm surge flooding.

They had time to evacuate people. People who didn't evacuate had time to prepare their houses and supplies.

They had time to shut down power stations and subways.

Imagine the human devastation, if that storm had hit, and those millions of people were all going about their usual business unprepared.

There is no privatized service, or non-governmental anything, that would have provided the warnings and facilities those 100 million people needed.

And where we fell short, it's because the GOP has had too many years of success at fooling people into thinking government is the problem, and not the solution.

[Angry Dragon]

1. Last I heard it was up to 92 just in the US

about 161 with all deaths

[phantom power]

2. I promise to update my numbers when they stabilize

[cthulu2016]

3. Generally agree, but not necessarily about the size of your numbers

The 1938 "Great Hurricane" was pretty comparable to Sandy in storm surge, and with much stronger winds. That killed 650-800 people because it was so unexpected, given the technology of the time.

Population is higher today. Coastal development more aggressive. So I can see Sandy as a 2,500 or possibly 5,000 dead event without radar and satellites and computer modeling.

(And if we were still getting hit with surprise hurricanes there would be less hurricane risk accepted also. For instance, if we didn't have radar we would have less aggressive coastal development.)

But I totally agree that government makes these things much safer. Before Sandy hit I wrote here about the 1938 storm and how Sandy would be similar in property damage, but with a fraction of the death toll.

[phantom power]

5. Although I brazenly pulled those numbers out of my ass...

80,000 seems totally conceivable to me. I'm trying to picture Manhattan, with everybody out and about, with full subways, as the storm surge flood hit. And then all the modern coastal/barrier development. An Atlantic city under water, but with nobody evacuated...

Maybe I'm way off. But damn...

[cthulu2016]

7. It is tricky to figure things like that, of course.

Safer cars makes people drive faster. Better huricane prediction makes people build on barrier islands.

Tough to say.

The Great Galveston Hurricane of 1900 was the deadliest hurricane to ever hit the United States and caused between 8000 and 12000 deaths... and Galveston couldn't have been all that populated. Nothing like NYC.

But there is prediction and prediction... days versus hours. Even with hours they would clear the subways, but orderly evacuation os whole areas would be impractical.

[greytdemocrat]

4. Also the time of year...

If this had been July the toll would have been much higher.

[senseandsensibility]

6. Does that mean that Bain couldn't have done all that for half the price?

[genxlib]

8. And all that dreaded regulation

Don't forget all that government interference of building codes, minium floor elevations, etc