Brother thinks the country won't last past 2030 no matter who wins

[davidn3600]

He's a registered independent. He's got probably the strangest voting record ever. He voted for Perot when he first could vote, then Nader, then Bush, then Obama. Now he's saying he's going to vote for Gary Johnson.

Anyway, he's 100% convinced the country's economy will collapse by 2030. There is no way to talk him out of that theory. He said neither political party will fix the problems, America is in decline, and no matter who wins we will be in worse shape in 4 years.

[ladyrain]

1. Okay

Honestly the way the countries going at the moment, it should be sooner. Unfortunately the USA is not longer the most powerful country in the world.

[RKP5637]

5. And often the US is its own worst enemy. n/t

[southernyankeebelle]

14. Your right. We have to stop this nonsense of saying we are an "exceptional" country. No

are no more exceptional than any other country. We are destroying ourselves thanks to this blue/red divide. We don't need to worry about outside countries invading us.

[RKP5637]

23. If we continue our current moronic course, China, Russia and India are going to

leave the US in the dust in the not too distant future. In my lifetime the US has gone from being admired to now often the fools of the world. Much of the US sits around bickering and many in the world have moved on into the 21st century.

[hifiguy]

37. Anyplace that believes in science will leave this country behind

in the next few decades. There are tens and tens of millions of people in this country who think science is the work of the non-existent debbil and believe in Iron Age fables. They are loudly and defiantly proud of their ignorace and stupidity and resist any and every fact relating to how the world actually is. That is no recipe for survival, much less flourishing, in an increasingly crowded and technologically challenged world.

[RKP5637]

40. When I was in R&D, we used to say the geeks will inherit the universe. I still often think of

that ... that those technologically advanced will inherit the universe and the rest will be left behind. And sadly I see/hear many of the super ignorant in this country proposing the US be the one left behind. These people are woefully stupid and ignorant. I used to think it was conditioned behavior, but anymore I'm starting to wonder if they are simply organically stupid.

[hifiguy]

41. It's two basic factors

Organic, to the bone stupidity aggravated by an education system that has been woefully dumbed down over the last thirty years, and fundymentalpatient, manichean, throwback, imbecile religion. The real future, if there is one, will eventually belong to something that resembles Gene Roddenberry's atheist/democratic socialist/anti-materialist imaginings.

[RKP5637]

52. I'm with Gene Roddenberry! n/t

[hatrack]

54. Yeah, that's pretty much it in a nutshell . . . .

It's not getting any smarter out there.

[ProudProgressiveNow]

46. +1

Well said.

[southernyankeebelle]

61. I remember in the mid 50s when I was a kid we were stationed in Frankfurt, Germany.

It was after the war and the country was coming back. There weren't many cars on the streets back then. I remember going travelling from Germany to Italy to visit our relatives. We had a black Oldsmobile. When we would stop to fill it up people would come over to look at our car and admire the car and say welcome to their country. They admired america. Then we'd get to Italy where my mother's family lived in Naples and our car would come down that little narrow side street and people knew it was us because my dad was an american. The neighbors all came over to see us. You would have thought we were rock stars. That was the way it was back then after the war. Today my relatives ask us what is wrong with country. America doesn't realize how we are seen now in Europe or Asia. We sound crazy to them. Obama repaired some of that but we have to do better.

[RKP5637]

67. Obama tries to make it better and the damn fool republicans AKA teabaggers heavily

criticize him. Their idea of repairing relations is to bomb the hell out of people/nations. And if Romney/Ryan are elected, I dare say this country will be entangled in a major war within the next four years. This nation not only sounds crazy often it is crazy IMO. Our foreign relations are deplorable.

[NoMoreWarNow]

10. Romney will accelerate our demise, for sure

welcome to DU!

[Motown_Johnny]

16. Welcome to DU!

The thing is that Reagan's economic policies are the problem. We have tweeked it a bit over the last 30 years but basically we are still operating under his policies.

If we can just wake up and realize that FDR's policies made this country the strongest and most prosperous the world has ever seen.

P.S. If the USA is not the most powerful country in the world then who is? I believe you are mistaken in this respect.

[randome]

2. Anyone can throw an even-numbered prediction out there.

The demise of the world has been predicted for thousands of years.

It's always 'in a few years' or 'soon'.

[RKP5637]

3. Well, I think he's onto something. I don't have the optimism either for the US I once had ... n/t

[Lasher]

4. What makes him think we'll survive the winter solstice?

[lalalu]

9. "Winter is Coming"

I love the way they say that in 'Game Of Thrones" .

[Hoyt]

6. If we don't come together and do some innovative things, he might be right.

[lalalu]

7. Just tell him the same was said during the Great Depression.

I do believe we will have more collapse and pain for at least 10 more years. But that is needed to move in a new direction because for over 30 years we have been going the wrong way. Some aspects of our economy need to go.

I am voting for President Obama for the second time because I believe he understands the need for change and new innovation. One of the things he seldom gets credit for is how he has pushed NASA and other areas of science and technology to new frontiers. I can tell you that behind the scenes he has done a lot and has had to battle a lot of old bureaucracy.

Re-electing President Obama is the right direction and I wish he would reconsider his vote. Then help us to vote in someone progressive for 8 more years after him. There will be problems but we will come out better in the end.

[RKP5637]

24. Well said!!! n/t

[Ya Basta]

33. There's some important differences between the depression era vs. today

- We where the world's largest manufacture.

- We didn't need to import our energy needs.

- We were not the world's largest debtor, we were the world's largest creditor.

[lalalu]

42. South American countries had greater wealth at the time.

During the time some of the most popular movies were ones that showcased the wealth and lavish lifestyles of South Americans. It is why the Nazis loved to travel and hide their money there. It is true there was great wealth disparity but the rich didn't care.

America's wealth and power grew during and after WWII. There were joint government and private contracts during the war that were later turned into private industries and helped manufacturing grow. A boon to the entire country. It was the last time that was done.

One reason we were the largest creditor after the war was because we gambled a large amount of money on the Marshall Plan. It was a huge risk that could have seen the collapse of this country if it did not pay off. In the end it benefited the nation and our new alliances.

Social programs also turned America into a powerhouse after the war. One of the best social equalizers in the history of this country was the GI Bill. It is probably the single greatest reason why so many families moved into the middle class. We saw a surge in educated Americans with numerous skills. That and other programs also created debt.

It is not the debt that matters but what we are creating it for. Creating debt to benefit a few will never pay off. Creating debt to better the nation will and history has proved that.

[NoMoreWarNow]

8. lots of doomsayers like him-- it's part of the conspiracy industry

make a bet with him if Obama gets elected, that American will be thriving in 4 years.

[justiceischeap]

11. Tell your brother he's off the mark, Dec. 21, 2012

that's when the Mayan's said the world would end.

Is he in a state where voting for Johnson will hurt Romney?

[ProudProgressiveNow]

47. +1

[demo dutch]

12. Geez I thought it was over in 2012!

[notadmblnd]

13. No, I think it supposed to happen sometime in December this year

[former-republican]

15. Nuclear weapon , civil wars , governments broke , people hungry

who the hell knows 17 or 18 years out

[aletier_v]

17. who cares? I'll be not collecting my social security by then anyway

[upi402]

18. nobody is talking about CLIMATE CHANGE

It's all moot if we have no biosphere. Economics dies when we all do.

[davidn3600]

21. Thats a good point

Not to mention diminishing resources.

[Selatius]

25. It is predicted that once northern arctic sea ice disappears, earth will warm even faster.

Because the white color of the ice reflects radiant heat energy back into space, but if the arctic is mostly deep blue, water without ice, it will simply soak up all the sun's energy, accelerating the process further.

If the prediction were that polar bears will become extinct by 2030, there's a fair chance that person in question will be correct regardless of political beliefs.

[aletier_v]

34. but if the number of brown people increases, and white people decreases

won't that absorb more sunlight?

[upi402]

56. Seems like it will snowball

Just a gut feeling, but I suspect the rate of change will increase over time.

"I don't have facts to back this up."
-Herman Cain

[Strelnikov_]

30. Global warmin is a liberal hoax

Cordin' to the dipshits on last nights Frontline.

Another example of Tea Baggers being led by the nose by powerful, monied interests.

[jeff47]

51. There will still be a biosphere.

It just won't be the same. Humans will easily survive. Probably not as many as we currently have, though.

[Speck Tater]

19. I dsagree. I think the U.S. could last well into 2031.

Of course a lot depends on what the word "last" means. If the U.S. splits into four separate countries which all survive, then, in a certain sense, the part of the U.S. have lasted even if the union doesn't.

Anyway, things look pretty grim. It wouldn't surprise me if the country collapsed before then. But it also wouldn't surprise me if the country lasted for another 100 years. Anything can happen at any time. And predictions are almost always wrong.

[Selatius]

29. Personally, I'm not sure the US would last to 2100 without one major civil war.

It's a shot in the dark--I know--but it seems few republics on earth can go more than 200 years without some disruption or a change of republican government. The Early Roman Republic lasted roughly two centuries, then came the Late Roman Republic characterized by assassination and political upheaval for roughly another two centuries, and finally the arrival of the "Principate" under Julius Caesar and all emperors who came after him; and then the darkness came.

[Speck Tater]

43. Read the book "Better Off Without 'Em".

The author makes a good case for why we should have just let the South secede. And for why we'd be better off if they seceded now.

[Brigid]

60. I loved that book.

It deals with an idea I've wondered about for a long time.

[dimbear]

20. The world actually ended in 1844. This is a simulation. n/t

[RKP5637]

27. Bingo!!! n/t

[Speck Tater]

72. Or, there is no "world" and never was.

This simulation was started this morning at 12:01 AM Greenwich Mean Time.

[Tutonic]

22. Tell him to turn on Piers and see Trump

wearing a dyed skunk cap. He'll want to move that 2030 timeline up a bit.

[OmahaBlueDog]

26. Well.. a few things

1) Argentina, Iceland, Russia: All had an economic collapse; All kept on keeping on. It's not like dystopic fiction in any of those places. Germany and Japan were utterly destroyed, and then remade just 10 years later. Tell your brother that nothing lasts for long.

2) The two party system may very well collapse. If Romney loses, I could readily envision the Tea Party striking out on its own. If the Greens would focus on building a base of state house and congressional seats, they could be players in 18 years.

3) What America really has is a tremendous cash flow problem. We spend to much, and we are a pretty demanding bunch, and nobody wants to be taxed to pay for anything. At some point - a year, 5 years, a decade , but (I think) in no more than 20 years, there will be some kind of balanced budget amendment. One of the things I was wrong about this election was that I felt for sure the Republicans would run on a platform of calling for a Constitutional Convention. While I don't think a BBA has a hope of passing through Congress, I suspect you could get 38 states to pass it.

4) Decline does not equal ruin. We should certainly continue to be strong and prosperous, but the rising stars for this century will be the BRICs.

[RKP5637]

28. One area in which we could save is to eliminate being the police of the

world, but the MIC has its hooks far too far into the gov. I believe it was Jefferson that said the most dangerous threats to the union were a two party system and the notion of corporate entities. And here we are today with this mess.

[OmahaBlueDog]

32. Agree 100%

IMHO, US foreign policy needs to be

1) Ourselves
2) Our neighbors (North America & the Caribbean)
3) Our hemisphere
4) The rest of the world

If we want to spread democracy, we can do that best by serving as an example to the rest of the world. Otherwise, we should stick to our knitting. If we're asked to broker peace, we should do so. Otherwise, we should strive to stay out of conflicts that are none of our concern.

Also, IMHO, alliances like NATO and trade agreements like GATT all need to be reevaluated.

[ProudProgressiveNow]

49. +1

[hifiguy]

36. Jefferson also hated bankers.

And for good reason.

[RKP5637]

38. Years past it seemed there was more wisdom, but as time has passed the

scoundrels have figured out ways to cover up and distort wisdom. ... as now when we have the highly manipulative political operatives of today that have goals far removed from what's best for the entire nation.

These are the scariest times I've lived in because anymore it feels like most of the enemy is from within the country and IMO a good portion of the citizenry has really been dumbed down by the likes of, for example, Fox News and similar.

Speaking of Murdock, someone told me just recently that he's now trying to buy up still more major media operations in the US. Just how far will this guy be allowed to proceed in bringing down the US.

[madrchsod]

31. the country will last but not the way it is now.

climate change is going to reshape the world sometime this century.

i`ll be long gone by then but my kids and their kids will be in the thick of it.

[hifiguy]

35. It is a distinct possibility.

The 1%/Military-Industrial-Intelligence Complex is hell-bent on looting everything and leaving the rest of the populace wandering the smoking rubble they will leave behind. One or two Repuke presidential terms will seal the fate of the US and nail the lid down on the casket.

[RKP5637]

39. Sadly, that is quite true. The nation is still reeling from the effects of Reagan, then a

Bush booster shot. A couple of terms of Romney, for example, and most citizens will be looking in the rear view mirror of what the country once was ...

[alcibiades_mystery]

44. So your brother is a silly crank...we have lots of those everywhere

Who cares.

[JHB]

69. +1

[SomethingFishy]

45. Every generation thinks theirs is the last...

For all he knows Aliens will land in 2020 and teach us how to feed clothe and house the entire population of the planet for free.

[hifiguy]

62. If benevolent, Vulcan-like aliens landed on Earth

in something like the STNG: First Contact scenario, the religious crazies, neocons and reichwing evolutionary throwbacks would probably kill them within a week.

[Romulox]

64. Right, but younger generations are seeing their standard of living and life expectancies *decrease*

relative to older generations.

That's not something that "every generation" experiences.

[SomethingFishy]

68. Absolutely true, however

that's not what the OP was talking about. Standards of living is different then the "end of the nation".

[Hamlette]

48. I have a cousin like that

during the bail out she was completely against it. When I pointed out that the federal government would be on the hook for all the people who had savings in banks via FDIC, she said the government shouldn't pay the insurance to those people, they acted recklessly by choosing bad banks. She said she had studied banks and found the very safest one so she wasn't worried and didn't care. She named the bank. My hubby, who wasn't with me at the time, was then the Commissioner of Financial Institutions (banks) so I asked him about "her" bank. He said it was in real trouble, the worst in the state, and would soon be taken over and merged because it was insolvent.

I never talked to her about it but yes, the bank went under and she was fully covered. She thinks 9-11 was an inside job, that fluoride in water is a government plot to control our lives and on and on. A real piece of work.

[Retrograde]

50. It's possible, but

I read a lot of American history. We've always been a screwded up country: I'm currently reading a biography of Aaron Burr, who not only killed someone while vice president (take that, Mr. Cheney), but tried to lead a real revolution against the US after stepping down as vice president. We've been messed up a lot in the past, and kept going. I like to believe we can still go on despite the idiots we elect to represent us.

[Ganja Ninja]

53. I think it's a real possibility.

We're in a war with the rich. They are bound and determined to destroy the wage structure in this country. When they do we will collapse. But here's the part they may not be expecting. If we can't repay our debt to China the Chinese may just decide to seize all American owned assets public and private and the rich may come to regret their little power play.

[cali]

55. brother doesn't live in the present or near future, eh?not exactly a fucking genius.

[cherish44]

57. I'm also in the line of thinking that America's best days might be behind it

Politics gets uglier every year. If we keep going on the course we're on, yeah I agree with your brother. I hope I'm wrong.

[WinkyDink]

58. I just want to get through next week with a dry house.

[NYC Liberal]

59. I imagine many people were saying the same thing in the 1850 and 1860s,

when we literally had a civil war in which 800,000 Americans died.

I'll bet they were saying it in the 1880s-1890s when we had several depressions within the span of about 20 years.

They were probably saying it in the 1930s during the Great Depression.

[Romulox]

63. I tend to agree that this country is on its last legs. Inequality, poverty, lack of opportunity...

I think it's harder to describe what forces will keep this country together. The forces that are tearing it apart are blindingly obvious.

[Yavin4]

65. As Long As The World Uses Our Currency As Its Reserve Currency, We Will Be Fine

We don't have a debt problem. We're not broke. We're not going to collapse any time soon.

[workinclasszero]

66. Screw the parties...what about..

Global warming? Yes if the Mormon/randian cult has its way with America we may devolve rather quickly into a Charles Dickens type of capitalist nightmare, but..

The whole damn world is going to go to hell in the meantime because of Global warming. What about that?

[Arkana]

70. Congratulations, your brother is a Ron Paul supporter.

[progressivebydesign]

71. He sounds like someone who fits a "type" I've read about.

There is actually a syndrome that is now listed in the psychological books, that lists something like that. It's something that some men are prone to, and increases at middle age. It's sort of a paranoia/distrust, the Govt/Political parties are not to be trusted. the economy will fail, etc. etc. They fancy themselves independents, but truly they're just negative people, who have distrust, and also want to appear to be more informed and not part of the system.

[hiphopnation]

73. always beware of alarmist statements like this

I liken them to Rapture end-timers. Collapse? Yes, eventually the U.S. will be no more. But it ain't gonna happen overnight. It's going to be a long, drawn out, boring process that will happen over generations and decades.

[bvar22]

74. Cheers!

We live in interesting times!

If you haven't already moved to The Woods and started growing your own food,
it is probably too late.

But don't worry.
Our government has put Monsanto in charge of the Dept of Agriculture and the FDA.
Everybody knows that Monsanto LOVES us,
and only wants to make our food better.
So everything will probably work out OK.


....and then there was one.

[tjwash]

75. I have a wacky brother like that too.

He buries gold and silver in his back yard, and is a walking conspiracy theory machine.

Every family has one they say. If you ask him though, I am probably "that 1"