US border agent kills rock-thrower in Nogales, Mexico

[Newsjock]

Source: Arizona Daily Star

An agent opened fire on a group of people throwing rocks across the fence with Mexico in Nogales, Ariz., killing one of them, El Imparcial newspaper reported.

Agents had reports of two suspected narcotics smugglers near the border at about 11:30 p.m. Wednesday, the Border Patrol said in a news release. The agents watched the two abandon a load of narcotics and run back to Mexico.

People on the south side of the border fence then began throwing rocks at the agents and ignored orders to stop, the release said. One agent opened fire and it appeared he struck one of the people, news release said.

Read more: http://azstarnet.com/news/local/border/us-border-agent-kills-rock-thrower-in-nogales-mexico/article_c0b7a658-13cd-11e2-a90b-0019bb2963f4.html

[hr]
Source: El Imparcial

Un supuesto menor de 14 años perdió la vida al se baleado por oficiales de la Patrulla Fronteriza en hechos ocurridos en la frontera de Nogales.

Esto ocurrió en un evento de tráfico de drogas, donde el joven junto con otras personas fueron sorprendidos trepando la cerca internacional.

... En el sitio hay manchas de sangre e impactos de bala en un local utilizado para hacer exámenes médicos a oficiales a efecto de tramitar licencias de conducir.

La Patrulla Fronteriza confirmó que se realizó un operativo ante la operación de tráfico de drogas y la realización de disparos en la que presume hirieron a alguien. Asimismo que de México les lanzaban piedras.


Read more: http://www.elimparcial.com/EdicionEnLinea/Notas/Policiaca/11102012/629513.aspx

[Whovian]

1. Sounds like international murder to me.

[joeybee12]

2. Yup...

Expect the teabaggers to come crying about how he was defending himself and/or America.

[joeybee12]

2. Yup...

Expect the teabaggers to come crying about how he was defending himself and/or America.

[MattBaggins]

7. Nope.

Perfectly legitimate if they were throwing rocks at them.

[Posteritatis]

8. What. (nt)

[Godless in Seattle]

9. Just like the IDF

Dealing with those gosh-darn Palestinians!

[Whovian]

10. So by your logic if someone throws a rock at you, you have the right to kill them?

Rather than backing away out of range?

[MattBaggins]

16. I was hit in the head once by a rock

and in that case it was just someone fooling around who didn't mean to hit anyone. That rock nearly knocked me out so yes if I the circumstances merited it I would shoot someone throwing rocks.

[Whovian]

17. So was I once. I wouldn't kill the guy that did it though even if it did cost me 16 stitches.

Sorry, Matt. I consider your opinion as borderline psychopathic.

[MattBaggins]

19. Well if you are unwilling to defned your person that up to you

but it is not borderline psychopathic to protect oneself.

[nadinbrzezinski]

22. I recommend we wait

Just read a couple stories and conflicting does not start to describe it.

Then there is the matter of impossible shots or rock throwing.

[4th law of robotics]

20. A thrown rock is a potentially lethal weapon

they were weapons of war for a very long time.

Unprovoked lethal force justifies self defense in kind.

[City Lights]

14. Nope.

It is not perfectly legitimate if they were throwing rocks at them.

[randome]

15. I'd say it is if they are close enough and throwing hard enough to kill.

But I don't understand why they wouldn't have fired a couple of warning rounds first.

[Whovian]

4. Just wanting to put this back up. Should not be ignored.

[CharlesSpencerKing]

5. The Facts Don't Jive

Here is the link to the Blog ( with important pictures )

http://rivr.sulekha.com/us-customs-and-border-patrol-kill-16-year-old-boy-in-nogales-sonora-mexico_594070_blog

Nogales International story:

http://www.nogalesinternational.com/news/bp-agent-reportedly-shoots-kills-rock-thrower-in-nogales-sonora/article_dc827398-13c0-11e2-934b-001a4bcf887a.html?success=1#_=_


A Border Patrol agent apparently shot and killed a teenager in Nogales, Sonora late Wednesday night after being shelled with rocks near the border fence.The Sonora State Investigative Police, or PEI, said 16-year-old José Antonio Elena Rodríguez of Nogales, Sonora was found dead of gunshot wounds on the sidewalk on the south side of Calle Internacional, which faces the border fence on the west side of town.Lt. Carlos Jimenez of the Nogales Police Department said the incident began when NPD officers responded to a report of suspicious activity on West International Street. The report involved males carrying bundles, he said.
“Our guys got there, they encountered some people who started fleeing south,” Jimenez said.
Then Border Patrol agents arrived on the scene.
According to Border Patrol spokesman Shelton McKenzie, the agents responded to reports of two suspected drug smugglers near West International Street and Hereford Drive at approximately 11:30 p.m.
“Preliminary reports indicate that the agents observed the smugglers drop a narcotics load on the U.S. side of the international boundary and flee back to Mexico,” McKenzie said in an emailed statement. “Subjects at the scene then began assaulting the agents with rocks. After verbal commands from agents to cease were ignored, one agent then discharged his service firearm. One of the subjects appeared to have been hit.”
Photos taken by Sonoran media showed authorities and emergency responders surrounding a lifeless body on the sidewalk on the south side of Calle Internacional, near the intersection with Calle Ingenieros. Some of the photos showed a pool of blood coming from the victim’s head.
The PEI said Rodríguez was shot "various" times in different parts of his body. Ramón Guzmán, mayor of Nogales, Sonora, told the newspaper El Imparcial that Rodríguez was shot eight times.
“Independent of whether it was a result of seemingly irregular or illicit acts, it is not the logical conduct to take the life of another human being,” he said, adding: “I hope it’s not going to come out (in the United States) that it was for legitimate defense.”
The Mexican government also condemned the use of lethal force.
“Preliminary information at this time brings forth, once again, serious doubts about the use of lethal force by U.S. Border Patrol agents, something that both the Mexican Government and Mexican society strongly deplore and condemn,” Ricardo Alday, a spokesman for the Mexican Embassy in Washington, said in the statement.
“It is imperative that the relevant U.S. authorities proceed with a timely and transparent investigation,” Alday added. “Mexican authorities will proceed accordingly within their jurisdiction.”
Eyewitness account:
In a report Thursday afternoon on Radio XENY of Nogales, Sonora, reporter Cesar Barron said that according to an eyewitness, two males were climbing on the border fence, apparently on their way back from the U.S. side, when the Border Patrol agents arrived.
According to the witness, the agents told the suspects that they were going to be arrested, and that they were better off behind bars in the United States than in Mexico. The suspects reportedly responded with an obscenity.
At that point, four more males arrived on the Mexican side and began to throw rocks toward the fence in an apparent effort to help the two suspects escape. That's when an agent began firing, the witness told Barron.
Some of the bullets reportedly struck the walls of a medical office behind Rodríguez. Luis Contreras Sánchez, the physician who operates the office, was quoted by the newspaper Expreso as saying the building was hit 14 times. Other news outlets put the count between five and “12 or more.”
Contreras Sánchez’s building and the sidewalk where Rodríguez's body was found are located below a point at which the border fence begins rising up a hill, and are approximately 12 feet below the base of the 25-foot fence. The fence is comprised of interconnected steel poles with 4 inches of space between them.
McKenzie said the Border Patrol notified Mexican authorities following the shooting and secured the scene on the U.S. side.
“U.S. Customs and Border Protection is fully cooperating with the FBI-led investigation,” he said





My Commentary:
I always assumed I'd place my life in danger by writing something on the drug cartels, not a US government agency. My books are on culture and though I write commentary on many subjects, I tend to be more global than just my corner of the world. However, when an international story drops in your lap three blocks from your home, the responsible journalist does not sit on their hands. This story is not yet of the magnitude it deserves as it is only 24 hours old, but it will be.



The reason is fairly simple, either the statements are wrong, or it is a cover up, because simply the facts do not jive. Let's spell this out so you can decide, Here is the recap. two young men were carrying bundles on the US side of the border. What happened to these bundles? Did they drop them, or return to Mexico with them? If they dropped them, why is this not mentioned in the statement?



Where the truck is in middle of road is location (notice hill)


To understand the weakness of the US government's claim we must describe the area. The site of the killing is a mere three blocks from the main (of three) gate in Nogales, it is heavly policed on both sides of the border with armed police, military and government agencies from both countries. Therefore, it is about as unlikely an above ground location that I could pick for drug smuggling, Furthermore, on the US side it is a mere twenty yards from the employee parking lot for the US govenment employees that is manned and camera active. There is also a one hundred plus feet tall guard tower less than two blocks away. The Mexican side is business/ residential with the south side of International Street being where the we find the first building after a sidewalk. Thus there is no natural cover between the border fence and where the sixteen year old was killed. Another key part of the geography is that it is not flat. A fifty foot sheer faced hill faces directly North and runs for a block each to the east toward the main gate, and to the west further away from it. On top of this vertical hill sits the twenty foot high fence. the fence is of the new variety with vertical slits.


Close up of location, notice tower and angle needed to make shot

1) How exactly did the boys get up the big hill and back over the massive wall to Mexico? The reports say all this was witnessed, and as I see it (based on the report) one can't exactly "flee" back to Mexico when faced with a substantial wall, unless of course they built a massive ramp, dug a tunnel under the concrete foundation, used an acetylene torch to cut a hole, or set a new pole vault record.

2) Why was the boy shot on the Mexican side? Twelve bullet holes in a wall behind him? Logic seems to tell me that anytime there is gun fire, anyone throwing rocks "flees" rather than stays to face a bullet, so why not fire over his head?

3) He was shot eight times? In the back an head? This is troubling to say the least. But what is even more troubling is the fact that anyone who fired a shot from the other side would be to climb the fifty foot sheer hill on the US side, press their nose against the twenty foot wall and fire down fifty feet to the street level to a location that would not be visible to anyone not next to the US side of the wall. A random shot from a substantial distance from the wall on the US side could not have killed the boy.

4) Eye witnesses state that four boys arrived on the scene and began throwing rocks. This is also difficult
to swallow as all four would have had to scale the fifty foot hill, get to the slits to throw accurately. These same wall would have protected the officers. Should the four boys have been throwing rocks from the street level over the 50 ft hill, over the 20 foot wall fighting gravity, I doubt Nolan Ryan could not have hit an officer. That officer of course as i stated would have had to be on the US side and up the hill. Why would an officer be within five feet of the wall endangering himself for a suspect who had already fled to Mexico?

5) The boys would have had to negotiate not just the 20 ft wall but the 50 ft steep hill to return to Mexico, and remember the bundles. Scaling a fifty foot hill, climbing a twenty foot fence takes time especially carrying bundles. According to the story and reports the Nogales Arizona police department witnessed this whole whopper of a tale. After the scaling the boys would have to scale back down the Mexican side, jump fifty feet to the street or repeal to the street, cross it, where the sixteen year old is finally shot eight times.

6) Those eight shots plus the twelve holes i counted at the scene make 20. Exactly what type of service revolver (side arm) fires a clip of 20 shots? From my cheap seats emptying a 20 round clip, (assuming there is one) suggests murder, not self defense. Particularly when the only way to make those twenty shots is to have your nose against the wall, or be within five feet of it.



I'm the first guy to laud the efforts of the US Border patrol and Customs and Immigration officers. Having said that, I also was saddened to see the men and women in green take over the main entry to Mexico on Grand avenue, from the men and women in blue. CBP is in green and Customs and Immigration in dark blue. It was not only the fact that I have friendly relations with the blue team over the last ten years of multiple daily crossings, it was more. I (like most residents) have seen the green team often take liberties that leave me wondering. This can be as simple as speeding without their lights, to dangerously running red lights without their sirens or lights active. Driving one handed while on the cell phone is another, that I find dangerous, indeed many residents are guilty of this too, but I feel agents should lead, rather than follow in safety. I also have noted that the green teams do not seem to have the people skills the blue teams display regularly, yet perhaps this is training. I suppose I'd simply say that I am not biased against the green teams, I simply do not not hold them in the same high esteem as I do the men and women in blue. I realize they have a tough and sometimes dangerous job, but like the military, this is a job they sought out, they were not drafted to and therefore must be held 100% accountable for their actions



Sixteen year old boys deserve a second chance in life, its sad and shocking this young man did not get that chance. Mexican soil is not US soil. His life is not worth two missing bundles, even if they did have drugs inside. These are the facts as this American citizen living in mexico sees them, I wish they were different, but they just don't jive with the statements issued.

[Whovian]

11. Thank you for this post. It asks some very good questions and

provides some good information.

[DiverDave]

12. MURDER

and the BP guy will walk.
And a 16 year old will still be dead.
Bastards

[Zalatix]

6. What a bunch of bullies.

[randome]

13. Why not shoot a couple of rounds over their heads first?

[4th law of robotics]

21. Those rounds would land where?

[Iggo]

18. Kill! Kill! Kill!