So... Michael Vick has got another dog

[Ohio Joe]

Eagles quarterback Mike Vick has spoken in the past about his desire to once again own a dog. Apparently, he now does.

Either that or someone in his house has developed a taste for dog food.

Courtesy of the folks at CrossingBroad.com, Vick tweeted a photo of himself and his daughter working at a table in their home, with Vick studying his iPad playbook and Vick’s daughter doing homework. On the table is an open box of Milk Bone dog biscuits.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/10/05/mike-vick-apparently-owns-a-dog-again/

The pics are here:

http://www.crossingbroad.com/2012/10/so-it-seems-michael-vick-has-a-dog.html

This is simply wrong... The fucker should never be allowed near any dogs again much less have one.

[onehandle]

1. Agreed. And in our newly adopted state, my wife and I want nothing to do with the Eagles. nt

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

15. Steelers fans welcome you!

[HERVEPA]

28. Trading a dog-killer quarterback for a rapist quarteback if you accept JB's recommendation

[Missycim]

35. Some view dogs above people

its sickening

[HERVEPA]

41. I believe the actual comparison

is not about viewing dogs above people, but reather people who abuse animals vs. people who abuse people.
There are no winners in this comparison.

[Jamastiene]

53. No. Animal abuse is sickening.

What is sickening is the people who will overlook any violent, torturous actions a ball player takes simply because they might be good at bouncing or throwing a freaking ball. It is not putting dogs above people to not want them tortured.

[Peregrine Took]

81. I detest your comment. I love animals to death yet don't place them over people and

I don't know anyone who feels the warped way you described.

That' a sick lie put out by anti PETA people and right wingers.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

59. Oh, yeah, I forgot the Pittsburgh QB has his own faults

and if everything is true, worse than Vick.

Hey, onehandle, wanna be a Lions fan?

[Dont call me Shirley]

139. Not a Steelers (Ben the Rapist) or Eagles (Vick the Dog Drowner) fan anymore, EVER!

Nor a Saints (Purposeful Injurers of the Opposing Team) fan

[Romulox]

159. Don't forget Nike, promoter of said Dog Torturer. nt

[deaniac21]

171. Surely, you aren't serious Shirley?

[ann---]

101. He has every right to own a dog

He did his time and I'm sure he learned a lesson. Why you would take it out on the Eagles is a mystery to me.

[newfie11]

2. He should never own any animal nt

[jberryhill]

3. People can change

[bullwinkle428]

4. That's right...some of us can even change several times in the course of a day!

[LynneSin]

5. Yeah I Know. We call ourselves progressives but yet we can't even recognize

someone who has served his time, completed his parole, done the community service, volunteered for EXTRA community service and continues to do promotional talks to schools about the dangers of dogfighting.

I know that Vick's crime was heinious. I also know Vick has done alot of work these days making the public aware of the wrongness that is dog fighting. Vick was raised in a community where dog fighting was actually a pretty normal thing which makes him a powerful speaker to reach out to kids who live in similiar areas where today he talks against this.

I have no problem with him owning a pet. I suspect any pet owned by Michael Vick will probably be one of the most pampered pets ever.

[Glitterati]

7. +1,000,000,000

yet we can't even recognize someone who has served his time, completed his parole, done the community service, volunteered for EXTRA community service and continues to do promotional talks to schools about the dangers of dogfighting.

[Arkansas Granny]

14. Agreed.

[hamsterjill]

25. But first, he needs to pay what he owes for the rehabilitation of the dogs he abused.

When he's paid back Best Friends Network (and others) for all of THEIR expense and hard work to try to rehabilitate the dogs that he abused, then...and ONLY then will my attitude toward Vick change.

I refuse to forget the work that was required to fix this asshole's mess.

[1StrongBlackMan]

140. Wasn't that a condition of his parole? n/t

[hamsterjill]

155. Not to my knowledge.

This is what Best Friends has to saw about Michael Vick owning a dog:

http://blogs.bestfriends.org/index.php/2012/07/20/michael-vick-dog-adoption-app/

[Hoyt]

26. I bet Vick takes good care of dog. I'm with give-Vick-a-break crowd now that he's done his time.

[Missycim]

38. now i know the world is going to end

I agree with Hoyt, now I have to go take a shower

[Hoyt]

78. You should take a shower more often than just when you agree with me.

[mythology]

206. Fortunately Missycim has more time to shower

as the poster has been escorted from the premises.

[grantcart]

31. +1

[Raster]

36. I agree. It is possible for people to see the errors of their previous ways...

...and change for the better.

And yes, we do need more cowbell.

[zappaman]

88. Thank you for this rational post! n/t

[NCTraveler]

105. Excellent post. nt.

[Glitterati]

6. I think some around here have manged to forget this

for·give·ness ?[fer-giv-nis]
noun
1. act of forgiving; state of being forgiven.
2. disposition or willingness to forgive.

[Evergreen Emerald]

123. Forgiving is all fine and good. But, let's not be forgiving AND stupid. Safety first.

There are consequences to actions. He should be prohibited from being near animals. Not for punishment. Not because he is not forgiven. Because he has shown that he abuses animals. They need protecting.

Felons are prohibited from owning firearms--not because we do not forgive them. Because they made behavioral choices. This is the same thing.

I am not willing risk another being--just for Michael Vick's enjoyment. There are consequences to his actions. He should should be limited to chi pets. This is not about further punishment. This is about safety.

[jberryhill]

204. After all, it's not as if he's white

[Evergreen Emerald]

205. Sorry I cannot let you get away with that racist statement.

There are consequences to actions...no matter what your race. Child molesters are prohibited from being around children, domestic violence attackers have no contact orders in place sometimes --permanently, people who commit violent crimes are prohibited from possessing firearms.

And a prohibition on possessing animals in vick's case is not unreasonable...he cruely and visciously tortured innocent beings who could not protect themselves...and I have advocated for this for a number of animal cruelty cases...no matter what the perp's race.

It is not about punishment...it is safety. I am not willing to risk another life as a test to see if Vick has stopped his total mindset regarding animals. His inconvenience is worth the safety of another being's life and safety.

And, your deeply offensive attack, is frankly dangerously superficial and one of the stupidest conclusory jumps I have ever seen with no facts about my history, the racial makup of me or my family, my commitment to protecting innocent life from violence.

Go fuck yourself.

[jberryhill]

207. "There are consequences to actions"

That is correct. And in a democratic society, the people decide what those consequences shall be, and we empower courts to impose them.

In this instance, however, you and your lynch mob are unhappy with the consequences the court has imposed.

How can you say "there are consequences" when you know full we'll that the court has imposed no such consequences. Only you and your extrajudicial panel of prosecutors is upset with the consequences that were imposed and which he fully paid.

[Evergreen Emerald]

208. Many many states have passed laws imposing such a protection--and law is evolving

There were times when DV perpetrators had no restrictions--and the women were just told to take it and shut up--by judges--until we changed the law to protect women.

There were times when child molesters were not prohibited from contacting children. And when judges told molested children that they looked too sexy. Until we changed the law to protect children.

We as a society evolve, address, and amend laws that are failing to adequately protect us.

And talking about such inadequacies on a forum, is perfectly acceptable way for citizens to discuss such failings.

I have laid out in previous posts the consequences to actions in many cases. In this case...there should be more. If there is no such restriction in Vick's state, the law should be changed to protect those beings who cannot protect themselves.

Stop with the ignorant assertions that I am a racist attempting to lynch Vick because of his race. Go Cheney yourself.

[Ohio Joe]

20. That is true, people can indeed change...

As a general rule though, I like to see something that tells me they did change. Vick tortured and killed animals for fun and tried to use the excuse that torturing and killing animals was recreation where he grew up so it is ok. He only changed his tune when he realized he was seriously going to go to jail for what he did. Personally, I've seen nothing to indicate he has changed. I would object to a pedophile being allowed to work with children after getting out as well.

If our prison system did any type of rehabilitation, I might think different but we do not do that and his claims of better understanding ring hollow to me.

[LynneSin]

42. Rule of thumb - many people change because of jail time

whether forced upon them or as a reason to not serve time. Prison is a serious eye opening for many people.

And if you have seen nothing to make you think he has changed then clearly you haven't even tried following up on the issue

http://www.humanesociety.org/issues/dogfighting/qa/vick_faq.html
http://www.humanesociety.org/news/press_releases/2012/03/vick_psa_033012.html
http://today.msnbc.msn.com/id/48210966/ns/today-today_news/t/michael-vick-dogfight-disgrace-i-have-more-prove/

These are all from 2012. Vick is under no obligation to do this charity work anymore. His parole time is done and he's completed his community service.

[Jamastiene]

56. I agree. And...

Off-topic, but what you said about rehabilitation would be the best possible thing we could do in prisons, imo. Just locking criminals up to learn new "skills" from other criminals perpetuates and exacerbates the problems with crime. Rehabilitation could absolutely make this world a better place. Instead, we have a vicious cycle because prison is just a cage and nothing is done to teach people WHY they should not do what they did to get into prison.

[hollysmom]

58. I have not seen anything to show me that people change.

abusers generally don't change, be it child abusers, bullies or animal abusers or serial rapists.

Abuse is about power, not a mild personality trait you can change. If someone abuses animals, I assume they would abuse people as well, so it is not an either or thing for me. Don't serial murderers usually have a history of animal torture?

animals are great to help with rehabilitation, but I don't think it would help this case. Why did he feel the need for a pet? To dominate? The value of our pets are unconditional love, that is where the healing posers come from.

now a thief, a drug user, an embezzler can change,. even some violent criminals can change, but some things cannot be changed. I really think that bullying is ingrained behavior, the older you are, the harder it is to change.

[Jamastiene]

54. People might pretend to change, but

they never really do. I am in the opposite camp of you in that theory. I believe people never change. They only put up a front to make people think they changed so everyone will leave them alone about the things they do. People never really change.

[hifiguy]

92. So therefore people can never change as a result of

becoming educated? That's a pretty bad argument.

[jberryhill]

111. So Sen. Byrd remained a KKK member?

[GeorgeGist]

122. Wow that's STUPID.

[flvegan]

197. Support that.

[rustydog]

94. Yes, people are capable of change. apparently there are people here who

want to be sole arbiter of whether that change is "true" or not.
Just the notion of being tried, convicted and serving one's sentence is not enough for some people offends me.
How does one get a second-chance unless they are given the ability to take the second-chance?

[krawhitham]

172. Who gives a shit, he can change all he wants but he has lost his right to have a dog

When you hang a dog by his feet and cut his throat you have lost the right to have a dog

Fucker should still be in prison

[Poiuyt]

191. There is a very high rate of violent recidivism among psychopaths

Vick has done a good job of correcting his behavior, but he can't change his psychopathic personality. Someone who has killed and tortured animals without remorse has a very good chance of committing some other violent act.

[flvegan]

199. Yes they can. Specifically, did he? Please answer to prove up your claim.

[jberryhill]

203. What "claim" have I made?

What "proof" would satisfy you that someone "no longer does X," and when did satisfying YOU become some standard of human morality?

[flvegan]

210. That he's changed.

Go ahead.

[jberryhill]

217. "People can change"

Yeah... That's exactly what that means.

[Marrah_G]

8. Disgusting

[BumRushDaShow]

9. "or someone in his house has developed a taste for dog food."

Since he is married with children, the quoted comment is a fucking racist piece of shit.

[LynneSin]

17. It's Michael Vick - we're allowed to say things like that

Once again we show just how little we actually practice what we preach as progressives.

[joeybee12]

77. Yeah, we are...we can say that about unrepenant murderers

Fuck this aplology meme shit because he plays for your team...

[LynneSin]

85. Oh come off it

If the guy was so unrepentant then why did he testify before our congress about toughening the laws about Dog Fighting. Why does he still work with the HUMANE SOCIETY to speak out against the issue.

Being an Eagles fan got me to READ about what Michael Vick is doing. Does that mean I like the guy? Not really, we should have never given him that big contract in 2011 and Reid is clinging on to a QB past his prime.

And trust me, if the Cowboys had him you'd be the exact opposite.

[joeybee12]

167. Cowpokes????

Patriots, thank you.

He's done everything he needed to do according to the terms of his parole, nothing more, nothing less...he is so arrogant he doesn't realize the depths of his hideous crimes...if he showed one rare moment that maybe he'd did, I'd forgive him, but he's a psychopathic worthless asshole.

[JVS]

179. Because the Eagles' head office demands it of him.

duh

[JVS]

180. This thread is about Michael Vick, not Ray Lewis!

[Texasgal]

189. Call me a bad progressive then.

Seriously, what he has done to these animals jail or not is disgusting. If someone abused my child I wouldn't want them around my child ever again. Would you?

So what. Call me a bad progressive. I don't care. Michael Vick should never be able to own another dog again. Period.

[JackintheGreen]

19. What a ridiculous, knee-jerk reaction

-OR-

Please document for me the history of dog-food eating as racist meme. Maybe it is, but if so I don't recognize it and don't mind being corrected. Am asking for it, actually.

But if not, what a ridiculous comment.

[BumRushDaShow]

29. It's an oft-used RW and racist meme, recently used against the President and his family

but also for blacks in general. Sick to shit of this type of thing on a so-called "progressive" forum.

http://www.yourblackworld.net/2012/03/black-news/dr-boyce-judges-who-compare-black-people-to-dogs-dont-belong-on-the-bench/

http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-201_162-2165303.html

[JackintheGreen]

188. I stand very corrected

I guess I missed (or maybe even tuned out) this particular meme development. I remember the Cebull case, now that you link it, but I hadn't made the connection.

Thanks for the links. Seriously. You remind me that I must be ever vigilant, the more so now that I live outside the US.

Cheers

[Skip Intro]

51. Wow, what a stretch. nt

[Lightbulb_on]

93. That is a real reach...

As in tip over and fall flat on your face reach...

[BumRushDaShow]

112. And your comment is as empty as the OP's. n/t

[Union Scribe]

148. It's not the OP's remark. It's from the link. nt

[roody]

211. What does dog food have to do

with race?

[life long demo]

10. I have never forgiven the Eagles for hiring Vick

Won't have eagles games on my TV, walk away when on at friends. Vick can't change his spots. I would feel the same way no matter what color he was. It's the act, not the color.

[LynneSin]

34. Damn straight - as liberals we should always hold grudges against those who give second changes

I'd understand if the Eagles gave him the job before the sentencing & jail time but geez how can someone call themselves a progressive and yet bemoan a man getting a job after serving jail time, doing parole, doing community service and continuing community service even after he was no longer required to do so.

No one has to be a fan of Vick but this is getting ridiculous.

I'm guessing you couldn't stand Ted Kennedy because he did leave a girl to die at the scene of a car accident. I mean good for you recognizing that Ted Kennedy would always be evil because 'People who do bad things never change their spots'.

No one is asking you to be a Vick fan but if you're a progressive think about the things we stand for like recognizing that when a criminal completes their time and does parole/community service that they deserve a second chance.

[hollysmom]

75. actually, I always did have a problem with Kennedy leaving Mary Jo

But his part was not deliberate so much as cowardice. I dont' think he wanted her to die, but was just drunk and stupid. Now Vick wanted the dogs to suffer, enjoyed the torture, and for all I know he is the same with weaker people.

Now I don't have to like or forgive Vick and you don't have to hate him. I don't really believe in prisons, so I don't think completing time is really any value except to get them out. I am always looking for an alternate solution to the prison system we have today.

And, yes, I love the show Pit Bulls and ex cons. I think pit bulls respond great to affection (where as my border collie was always a bit standoffish) and that they can help people with PSTD, self worth problems, drug users and alcoholics., Don't know if they can help burglars embezzlers though.

[NCTraveler]

108. Is there any organization you would feel comfortable hiring him.

Or should he just become unemployable?

[one_voice]

11. Or a friend came for a visit...

and brought their dog. Could be they wanted treats for the kids to give to the dog.

His daughter is a cutie.

[Bluenorthwest]

12. The world forgave him for stealing the neighbor's pets for torture games because he

is good at a child's game. These are the same people who claim gay people are horrid wretches who must not have any rights, they pile millions and roses on a guy who killed pets for his pleasure.

[frylock]

64. the child's game meme is bullshit..

straight up bullshit. if you don't like the game, then fine. kids play policeman and fireman too. are those child jobs?

[flvegan]

95. Torture is okay if you're young, rich and talented. At least according to some.

"He did his time"

What bullshit. A number of his former dogs are still doing their "time" Let me know when he actually makes up for what he did. Millionaire bonus baby starts a dog fighting ring and a few years later, that's just water under the bridge.

Utter idiocy.

[MADem]

163. "Millionaire bonus baby?" He grew up in violence and poverty. nt

[flvegan]

193. You don't know much about this, do you?

[MADem]

218. Well, that was cryptic and entirely unhelpful.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Vick

Vick was born in Newport News, Virginia as the second of four children to Brenda Vick and Michael Boddie, then unmarried teenagers.[10] His mother worked two jobs, obtained some public financial assistance, and had help from her parents, while his father worked long hours in the shipyards as a sandblaster and spray-painter.[11] They were married when Michael was about five years old, but the children elected to continue to use their "Vick" surname. The family lived in the Ridley Circle Homes, a public housing project in a financially depressed and crime-ridden neighborhood located in the East End section of the port city. A 2007 newspaper article published in the Richmond Times-Dispatch noted "not much changed" by observations of local people almost ten years after Michael Vick left. One resident said that there was drug dealing, drive-by shootings and other killings in the neighborhood, then suggested that sports were a way out and a dream for many.[12]
In a 2001 interview, Vick told the Newport News Daily Press that when he was 10 or 11, "I would go fishing even if the fish weren't biting, just to get away from the violence and stress of daily life in the projects."[12]

I guess rich kids routinely live in the housing projects at Newport News?

Who knew?

[flvegan]

220. Not really, unless you're ignorant.

Did he grow up in poverty? I guess. Was he a millionaire when he started his dog fighting ring? Yes.

Pity poor little Mikey Vick, scrapping out a living as a disadvantaged fella making his money off the backs of dogs.

Yeah, not so much.

[MADem]

222. The one who's ignorant here is not me.

You apparently don't know that what is learned in childhood often sticks with people throughout their lives.

You apparently don't know that money doesn't buy knowledge, insight, compassion, understanding--any of those things.

It's why people who become rich after growing up poor often have their taste in their ass--they don't know any better and they don't have any real friends, often as not, to help them calibrate their moral compass.

[flvegan]

223. Keep thinking that. n/t

[MADem]

224. Thanks, I will! nt

[pecwae]

183. He's rich

and plays at a game a step above gladiators in ancient Rome. To far too many people he's untouchable, valuable, worth his weight in gold and it doesn't matter what he did to living, breathing, feeling creatures who exist only because of human beings.

Animal abusers are on the same level as child and elderly abusers and worth just as much to me.

[NCTraveler]

114. "The world forgave him"

Clearly you haven't read the responses.

I really think you should elaborate on the "These are the same people" comment. It is just so full of fail.

[alcibiades_mystery]

13. Good for him

[snooper2]

16. So much for liberal redemption

LOL...

Burn em' at the stake!!!

Methinks you need a little Johnny Cash

[LynneSin]

18. So Ted Kennedy can leave he scene of an accident allowing a woman to die...

and we all forgave him.

Hypocrisy thy name is DUers.

BTW, I am a big Ted Kennedy Fan. I am not a big Vick fan, I think Andy Reid needs to move on and find a new QB for the Eagles - but that is an opinion i have as an Eagles fan. My personal opinion of Vick is the man completed his services, finished his parole and to this day, even though he is not required by law to do so, still works hard in the anti-dog fighting community.

I don't expect anyone to be a Michael Vick fan but some of the posts here - people should hang their head in shame.

[HipChick]

24. My sentiments exactly!..

Faux outrage

[BumRushDaShow]

32. Exactly.

The damn Eagles need a whole remake. Reid needs to go the way of losers like Buddy Ryan. Vick needs to go because he had his day and it has long past. We need to start all over and build a new team from scratch.

But this extremism to the point of insinuating that a man's wife and/or children "developed a taste for dogfood" - THAT shit needs to go.

[Missycim]

39. I am a die hard Eagles fan and season ticket holder

They need to fire Reid and Vick and start that kid folwes (sp). He looked good in the preseason.

[frylock]

65. well played..

i'll admit that i wasn't thrilled about Vick coming back to the league, but i do now believe that he has changed, and atoned for his crimes.

[Romulox]

89. The most sanctimonious posts on this thread all belong to YOU. People have a right to their own

value systems, regardless of what YOU believe.

[LynneSin]

99. They do have their rights

But Michael Vick also has his right to own a dog.

The ban was for 3 years.

Never asked anyone to be a Michael Vick fan. Just recognize that this guy has done his time and yes, that he has changed.

[Romulox]

103. You have no idea if Vick has changed. True change comes from WITHIN, not court ordered. Not PR crap

on TV.

[LynneSin]

106. And you have proof he didn't?

His time served including parole and community service was finished years ago. HE still does work with the Humane Society today.

Wow, I feel sad for the state of our criminal system if the assumption is that all people serving time in jail are doomed to integrating life back into society after they finished serving their time. With the idea you present we might as well just issue the death penalty for all criminals because according to you they will never change so why even bother jailing them.

[Romulox]

109. All the murdered/mutilated/tortured dogs. Those are the best "proof" as to his character.

Wow, I feel sad for the state of our criminal system if the assumption is that all people serving time in jail are doomed to integrating life back into society after they finished serving their time. With the idea you present we might as well just issue the death penalty for all criminals because according to you they will never change so why even bother jailing them.

What are you even talking about? My moral condemnation of this man isn't controlled by the criminal justice system. A man could be released after serving his child molestation sentence--I'm under no compunction to therefore hire him as a babysitter.

[LynneSin]

113. I'm asking about today, now that he has served his time

I know what he did in the past.

Your assumption is that Vick has not changed but you have no proof about that.

[Romulox]

115. You're not "asking" about anything--you're castigating people who disagree with you. You don't have

any "proof" of anything to back it up, either. "He's served his time" doesn't answer any criticism I've made.

As always, the best (and ultimately only) evidence we have of Vick's future actions are his past actions. It's ludicrous to demand everyone forget the kind of man he was until the criminal justice system forced him to stop the torture and mutilation of dogs by forcibly removing him from the general population for several years.

And now we HAVE to believe "he's changed", because Nike and Philadelphia fans say so? BULLSHIT!

[LynneSin]

125. Why shouldn't I since castigating seems to be an Olympic sport here at DU

and done by both sides.

Not asking anyone to like Vick.

Just point out that he has done his time. And YES because I do live in the Philly metro area I do get more stories about Michael Vick and they are good reads - some of them coming from the Humane Society national office.

You're the one that wants to keep criminal tags on people for their lifetime. Maybe from Michael Vick what I've learned is you have to give people a second chance. Maybe Vick has shown me what it's like for people who leave jail that they have this lifetime stigma stuck with them even if they have changed. Sure Vick was lucky and got a second chance, but just like millions of others people still assume he's committing a crime and refusing to see change.

[Romulox]

126. Because your values are no more valid than anybody else's. You have ZERO moral authority to scold.

[LynneSin]

132. You should hold up the mirror

and say the same to yourself

[Romulox]

133. Nonsense. YOU were telling people to "hang their head in shame" before I even got here. nt

[MADem]

219. You have no idea that he hasn't, though--unless you're in his pocket.

http://www.bet.com/shows/the-michael-vick-project.html

[treestar]

134. That's a good point

I think there are some people who place higher values on animals than people.

[Union Scribe]

149. How the fuck can you compare those?

A traffic accident versus willfully torturing sentient animals? What an idiotic post.

[pecwae]

184. I'll "hang my head in shame"

when Vick does. I have my own set of values, but don't go around telling everyone who disagrees with me that they're horribly wrong and should feel terrible because I say so. Or should I just say how much better a liberal you are than me?

[ceile]

21. Animal abusers are right up there w/ child molesters in my book

Both lack empathy and a soul. Vick should never be allowed anywhere near a dog- ever!

[TorchTheWitch]

215. You and me both

There is something really fucking sick about being able to just forgive and forget what he did to those poor animals. And the only reason anyone does is because he's "Johnny football hero" and not just some regular Joe off the street.

[MADem]

22. I thought he's had a dog for some time, now. A little dog.

He got married in June of this year. Perhaps his bride came to the marriage with a dog. I know he said he wanted to get one for his kids.

He has atoned, you know. He went to jail, he did time, he's done public service, he's gotten therapy--what more must he do? He grew up in a shitty, violent environment that told him that a VERY bad thing was OK. He's paid for participating in that bad thing and corrected his behavior. Will he always be "unforgiven?"

Vick has lobbied for H.R. 2492, the Animal Fighting Spectator Prohibition Act, which would establish federal misdemeanor penalties against convicted spectators of illegal animal fighting and make it a felony for adults to bring children to fights.[80]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Vick

He came up hard, he's been mooched on by an 'entourage' of hangers on who bled him dry, he was convicted for crimes, he did his time, and he's trying to turn his life around. I wouldn't be in favor of him opening a dog breeding farm, but if his children have a dog and they are caring for it, I say leave him be. They shouldn't have to pay for the "sins of the father."

[HipChick]

23. This is ridiculous...Vick paid his dues..

Asia is the greatest abuser of dogs...however, it doesn't stop the US from importing their goods..

What a ridiculous and hypocrite stance to take..

[SDjack]

40. Perhaps his daughter owns a dog, and the biscuits are hers. nt

[LynneSin]

67. Vick's ban was only for 3 years

and it ended in July.

So legally he is allowed to own a dog.

[deaniac21]

27. I think he has figured out the dog thing.

However, he has a real problem with turnovers.

[LynneSin]

30. Now that is a good reason to start an Anti-Vick thread

Vick was a good interim QB for the Eagles but we need to find the next great QB of the team - another McNabb, Cunningham, Jawaroski type player that will lead for the decade.

[Missycim]

45. They picked a kid in the draft that looks pretty good

I'd say just let him play now and let the season go

[LynneSin]

46. That's pretty much how Cunningham and McNabb got their starts

They got tossed into the deep end.

I think Reid is trying to justify the $100mil contract they gave Vick last year. It was a bad contract move on a player that pretty much peaked in 2007-8.

I hate to say it, it's time for Reid to resign or even be fired. It's tough because Reid is the first coach in ages that actually survived in Philly past his first contract. But we need fresh blood for the Eagles.

[Missycim]

47. no this QB is not a athletic QB's that Cunningham and McNabb were.

I saw him throw lasers and he is tons more precise then any QB I have seen in a eagles Uniform.

[Missycim]

49. I wanted this kid to start so bad

I'd throw away the season just to let him develop.

Yes its Reids time to go, I am sick of 10-6 or 8-8 season, maybe a playoff game or two. Haven't been to a SB since 04 and never have won one.

[BumRushDaShow]

33. Exactly. Interceptions, fumbles, sacks.

FAIL. I

[Peregrine Took]

82. FIgured out a better way to hang them?

Are you serious?

[deaniac21]

221. Well, he sure hangs the long ball.

[JoePhilly]

96. No kidding!!!

Fumbles back to you guy on the 1!!!!

AHHHH!!!!!!!!

[deaniac21]

170. The steelers don't have 6 rings for no reason.

[pecwae]

187. Yeah, and it only took him

several deaths, hangings and tortures to do so. How wonderful that after only those few simple things he was able to figure out that getting caught doing those things might cost him a couple of years off the field. He should get an award for learning.

[quinnox]

37. Its his own business

He could have a kennel of dogs and its none of my business.

[Go Vols]

70. +1

[NuttyFluffers]

43. our culture has a habit that punishment, like diamonds, should be forever.

at what point do you move on?

[ArnoldLayne]

44. He already paid his debt with prison time, give him a chance!

[LynneSin]

48. Honestly I don't even care if they give Vick a chance

No one has to be a Vick fan. Hell if he wasn't playing for the Eagles I know I wouldn't be.

But like you said ' he paid his debt with prison time, fines, parole and community service. And today he still does community service. If we truly are progressives we need to recognize that he's served his time.

[LynneSin]

50. Just as an FYI - Legally Michael Vick is allowed to adopt a dog

The ban was for 3 years and ended sometime around July 2012.

[CakeGrrl]

52. Hr paid his dues with jail time. Move on.

This from an adoptive pet owner.

Your snide remark about dog food eating says a lot about your anger, but want constructive path do you have?

Or sit around hoping he breaks another law to vindicate your ongoing anger. However you want to spend your time.

[navarth]

57. Those poor dogs can't 'Move on'.

Fuck Michael Vick.

[Peregrine Took]

83. [phone]. Tiger's don't change thier stripes. n/t

[CakeGrrl]

97. So I assume that when a 13-year-old murders his grandparents

and goes and eats pizza afterward, you would then lock them up and throw away the key, correct?

NO taxpayer money should be spent on study or counseling or rehabilitation, correct?

I want to confirm that you're consistent in your stance and apply it equally to all offenders whose actions result in ANY loss of life.

[navarth]

166. There was more than simple loss of life involved here

He fucking TORTURED those poor innocent dogs. He ELECTROCUTED the ones that didn't fight in his little disgusting arena.

And dog fighting rings regularly kidnap other innocent animals like homeless kitties to throw in with these dogs that have been twisted into monsters.

You could have picked a better analogy for your post. A 13-year old isn't a full-grown man that should know better.

[11 Bravo]

192. So, does the fact that you can't spell "their" mean that you will always be ignorant?

[Union Scribe]

150. There is nothing automatically redemptive about serving time.

And, again, it wasn't the OP's comment. It was from the link.

[Comrade Grumpy]

201. But that's what we demanded of him for his crime, and he did it.

[Comrade Grumpy]

202. Arguing about whether Michael Vick can have a dog is a waste of time.

He has a dog.

[Evergreen Emerald]

55. It is disgusting. If he were a child abuser, we would not let him near children.

We must protect our animal friends.

Vick's actions were not a "mistake." Typically animal abusers are serial. He was violent, and viscous, and cruel as he tortured and abused animal after animal. He showed a sickness--that jail time does not cure. What proof do we have that he will stop?

I assisted in getting a law passed in our state that prohibits those who were convicted of animal abuse are not allowed to own animals. It is not punishment. It, like prohibition of firearms for felons, or those convicted of child abuse prohibited from being near children, is a necessary societal protection.

Disgusting.

[Jamastiene]

60. What I want to know is who gave him the dog.

What kind of person would give a dog to someone who is KNOWN to have tortured and abused dogs in the past?

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

61. Anyone know what kind of dog? Hopefully not a pit bull

A retriever or poodle would be nice for the daughter.

Some breed that he won't take to a dog fight.

[LeftyMom]

62. He should still be in prison.

[LynneSin]

66. At the time Vick received what was the maximum sentence available

Thanks to him the laws are much stronger, the time is longer and Vick has even testified before congress to help enact stronger laws against dog fighting.

http://www.humanesociety.org/issues/dogfighting/qa/vick_faq.html

[LeftyMom]

129. Stop apologizing for that asshole.

[LynneSin]

130. Not apologizing - just pointing out the facts

There's alot of emotions in this thread but very little facts other than the crime he committed.

[LeftyMom]

136. He could have faced federal charges and didn't. He should still be locked up.

Further, stop acting like his volunteering is some change of heart and not marketing bullshit, because it's not. I know people who had to interact with him in that process and they all say he did not take it seriously and is not repentant.

[flvegan]

194. He should have faced RICO charges in addition.

But don't let that get in the way of supporting your football team.

Just pointing out the facts.

[HipChick]

68. It's funny that don't we have the same outrage over these war criminals..

Bush
Cheney
Condie

[bullwinkle428]

86. A bit of a strawman argument, don't you think? I mean, this place went apeshit (me included)

when Nancy P. said "impeachment is off the table", and the Obama administration said something about looking forward and not back.

[Stinky The Clown]

69. I hope the dog bites him.

Fuck you, Vick, you dog killer.

Fuck you.

[DinahMoeHum]

71. Vick was an arrogant prick long before this dogs issue

. . .and he still is an arrogant prick. Nothing has changed.

I personally don't give an Effing F if people say he's reformed. I say I know better. But that's just my opinion.

Let's see how much $$$ he has 3-5 years after he leaves football.
Dollars to donuts he'll be BROKE.

[tarheelsunc]

72. Michael Vick has done a lot of good things since he returned to the NFL

I fully believe he regrets what he did and he wants to make up for it. Not that it makes anything any better, Vick was not directly involved with the dog fighting, but just the finances. It's still bad but who knows if Vick would even want to be involved if he was directly involved and saw the cruelty of dog fighting. He served his punishment and paid for his crime in a big way and I think he's an honest man now.

[flvegan]

200. Welcome, clueless.

LOL!

Not directly involved? Really? Be specific.

[libodem]

73. Wonder if that Texas "mother"

Will get another 2 year old?

[LynneSin]

79. She did

She had another child since the incident.

Also if sentenced she will probably send alot more time behind bars than Vick did.

Not a very good example.

[mfcorey1]

74. I don't worry about Mike Vick and fear that he will not take care of his children's

dog. To me, and I can have my own opinion, I worry about some of these dog owners who have not been revealed to be abusive. I worry about parents who have their children returned after they have abused them. I worry about the ducks who were hoarded by a home owner and never allowed to even swim in water. Yet it took the animal control a long time before they could take them. I worry about those who aided Jerry Sandusky in his abuse of young boys and have not been brought to justice. So, a picture of a box of dog bones is not high on my worry list. Vick is probably better suited to take care of the animals now that he has been through the portals of hell for what he once was involved in. Go ahead, Mike, and continue your rehab. You cannot listen tot he whispers of hate that will always be there to impede your progress. There are hypocrites among them who are at this moment having their dogs tied to some fence in the backyard with a rope that is too tight. Flame me. I don't care. It is how I feel.

[roody]

212. Don't worry. My dogs are next to me

on their fluffy beds.

[joeybee12]

76. And murderer apologists are chiming in!

If Vick had really changed...whicih is clear to anyoen that he has not...he would not have a dog knowing how this would be viewed...he got the dog because he's still as arrogant and worthless as ever and doesn't give a shit about anyone other than his pustualnt self. I hope he rots in hell.

[LynneSin]

84. Really?

First, his ban against adoptiing dogs was three years so guess what - he is legally allowed to adopt a dog. The period ended July 2012.

http://piersmorgan.blogs.cnn.com/2012/07/17/michael-vick-says-he-might-get-a-new-dog-certainly-not-a-pit-bull/

In his new book "Michael Vick: Finally Free, An Autobiography," Vick expresses his love of dogs in spite of his fascination with dog fighting and the competition associated with it. Vick was banned from owning a dog for three years but this month the ban expires.

And seriously - how dare you call DUers such a term. Perhaps we are just showing our progressive side which recognizes the man served her sentence, completed his parole, paid his fines and did his community service.

Your post sounds like something I'dd expect from right-wing posters who assume that all criminals stay like that until they die and justifies that for the reason to take away their voting rights forever.

I don't care that you hate Michael Vick. But as progressives we have to recognize that when someone completes all their components of prison time then they deserve to move on from it.

[magical thyme]

87. If he had tortured children to death

would a 3-year ban on having children be sufficient for progressives?

Personally, I think some crimes are so heinous as to merit permanent changes. Torturing sentient beings to death as entertainment being at the top of the list.

[joeybee12]

168. Agreed...some needs to post photos of what exactly Vick did...

It would get locked it's so horrific...but maybe that's the only way some people will get it.

[progressoid]

80. Yeah, but does he eat at the Olive Garden?

[hrmjustin]

90. I disdain greatly what he did, and i do not trust him. I doubt he will do it again , but ...

Last edited Thu Oct 11, 2012, 03:28 PM - Edit history (1)

... he should not have another dog.

[Romulox]

91. It's like Jerry Sandusky being allowed to work with children again... nt

[JoePhilly]

98. Did you just equate child rape with dog fighting?

Both are horrific, but I don't think they are "equal" crimes.

Also ... Vick admitted his crime, went to jail, and did his time. He's also gone around Philly to schools to tell kids that what he did was wrong and that he's trying to be a better person as a result.

Sandusky and his wife continue to claim his innocence.

[Romulox]

100. Sure did. Both men are sociopaths, imo. I don't care what Vick has done on camera to make money.

When the cameras were off, he was gleefully murdering dogs. He had to be separated from society to make him stop.

[Evergreen Emerald]

102. not just murdered--cruely and visciously tortured

He should not be allowed to be near animals.

What a disgrace.

[hrmjustin]

135. I 100% agree

[Romulox]

137. I do too. nt

[JoePhilly]

117. Cool ... just checking.

Also ... I don't think I've seen a video of Vick talking to school kids about his crimes. But I have seen some reporters talking about it.

And I do wonder ... Vick went to jail. Served the time sentenced. Should he have been put a way for life? Death Penalty?

After one commits a crime and does their time ... which jobs should they not be allowed to have? If a construction worker were to do the same thing, would we demand that he could never work construction again?

[LynneSin]

104. That's a serious point there. The Sanduskys are still claiming they are innocent

Which means I trust him even less around children.

And Vick has travelled to schools in other states too, not just Philly. He grew up in a culture where dog fighting was considered normal. He talked about this in his book he just released, his first dog fight he attended was back when he was 9 years old. I know for most of us this is just horrifying to think a kid could attend a dogfight and not thing anything is wrong with it but this how it was where he was raised. And honestly I can see that because I know for almost 20 years I thought homosexuals were pervs that were defying God. But being raised in a rural part of the country I really never had many friends who tried to teach me otherwise - it was the culture. Luckily I got a job in the city where people had different ideas about this and I realized my ways of thinking were wrong.

[Romulox]

116. Similarly, Jerry Sandusky (like many abusers) may have been abused himself. Give him a break! nt

[JoePhilly]

120. You equated Sandusky with Vick ... not the other way around.

You are the one claiming that what Vick did and what Sandusky did are the same.

Both did terrible things. And what Sandusky did was far worse.

By equating the two, you are the one minimizing Sandusky's crimes.

[Romulox]

121. Nonsense. I have a different value system than you (apparently.) Yours isn't more valid

simply because you're willing to be louder, or more sanctimonious about it.

People who are disgusted by Vick have a right to their own value system. It's valid, and you won't scold it out of us just because you find a sociopath entertaining.

What a disgusting organization, btw. Rather lose with dignity than win with Vick!

[JoePhilly]

127. You were the one suggesting that by not equating the two, others were "giving Sandusky a break".

But no one did that.

And how am I "louder" than you? Your posts, and my posts, carry the same weight. And both views are "valid", I just disagree with yours. Welcome to the internet.

BTW ... you appear to be the one who sounds "sanctimonious". And you prove that with your last sentence.

The Eagles hired a convicted felon, who did his time ... and you call them disgusting.

That would not only be sanctimonious, it would also be attacking the value systems of others by calling them disgusting. Guess you missed that.

[Romulox]

131. I'm not "suggesting" a damn thing--I am DIRECTLY STATING that I find both men equally reprehensible.

I'm not going to play this game of rating animal torture versus child molestation. BOTH are beyond the pale of human decency.

[JoePhilly]

146. You started the game by equating the two.

I find most variations of hunting to be rather nasty.

I find dog fighting to be much worse than most variations of hunting.

And I find repeated child rape over multiple decades to be significantly worse.

I also recognize the US judicial system. If one participates in a crime, and they go to jail, and they server their time, we try to allow them back into society.

There are former members of the KKK who did terrible things, went to jail, and then have come out understanding what they did was wrong and they spend their lives trying to make amends. And some never change.

There are businesses that do nothing but hire former felons with the intent to help them return to society. Its a noble intent. Doesn't always work. But I would not stop trying to do that.

I'm not sure what will happen with Vick. Maybe he'll prove that he's changed. Maybe not. But he went to jail. Served his time. What happens next is up to him.

You don't have to forgive him, or like him ... feel free to hate him.

When I consider Vick versus Sandusky, given all I know about each, I have no problem differentiating between them.

[Romulox]

158. It's not a game; I find them EQUALLY REPULSIVE. You're not "catching" me in any inconsistency.

I freely admit it. Vick makes me sick just like Sandusky, and vice versa. No games are being played (by me) in stating this.

[Douglas Carpenter]

107. I suppose different people have different reactions to how different crimes strike them viscerally

As I look at my Micronesian Boony dog sleeping peacefully on my bed I think about how I love dogs so much that on the emotional level at least I am prepared to support the death penalty for anyone intentionally torturing a dog for entertainment the way Mr. Vick did even though admittedly I am otherwise absolutely against the death penalty under any circumstances and am probably the ultimate bleeding heart liberal even when it comes to crimes - even crimes generally viewed as heinous in nature. I admit this is more an emotional reaction than a logical reaction. But visceral reactions to crimes are always more emotional than logical. Still if I was to compare the crime of intentionally torturing animals for entertainment to crimes such as sex offender crimes or even serial killing - as awful as such crimes are - they are crimes almost always driven by deep secretive and obsessive compulsions that no one ever consciously chooses to have. I don't believe that any child grows up wanting to be a serial killer or a pedophile or someone who shoots a bunch of people in a crowded cinema. Those are crimes that may very well involve very bad choices - but they are still driven by compulsions that no person ever consciously chooses and no doubt most would have consciously chosen not to have - if it had been within their power and ability to make such a conscious choice. I cannot see how intentionally torturing dogs for entertainment involves some deep, secretive, obsessive compulsion that might possibly tempt a person beyond their ability to resist temptation. This is a consciously organized activity that does involve conscious a deliberate and intentional choice. It is not a crime of a tortured mind struggling with a secret obsession. Should Mr. Vick be forgiven? I believe that no one is beyond redemption. I hope we can look for a little bit of consistency on how we apply the principle of forgiveness for the unforgivable.

[tokenlib]

110. Should Michael's daughter be punished for her father's failings?

Honestly, I want to believe in redemption. Maybe Michael's daughter is showing her father how to truly appreciate a pet? I don't think his family should be punished for his past. I want to believe Michael Vick has changed..

[Evergreen Emerald]

119. It is not about redemption. It is about safety. Felons do not get to possess guns

not for punishment, not because they are evil--because the society believes it is a safety issue. Is the child of a felon punished when they cannot learn to hunt because of the prohibition of firearms?

Animal abusers should be be allowed to possess animals. For protection of the animals. Not punishment.

There are consequences to actions. Sometimes consequences last longer than is convenient.

[CakeGrrl]

156. So murderers of human beings DO NOT get to interact with any more human beings, correct?

For the protection of other human beings. It's a safety issue.

If you disagree, explain how you think someone who has abused animals is incapable of changing their behavior while one who takes human life should be given chances to do so.

[Evergreen Emerald]

162. No...that is a superficial interpretation of my point

Those convicted of child abuse are prohibited from being alone with children for years--unless in the presence of another person who is aware of the convictions. They are prohibited from frequenting places where children play (like parks, malls, etc).

Because children cannot protect themselves...and they depend on us to have the right priorities. (their safety versus the convenience of the perpetrator).

Animals, like children cannot protect themselves. They are naturally trusting and do not have the information they need to make a choice about whether or not to hang around a serial abuser.

What on earth could it hurt Vick to be prohibited from being near an animal? Especially considering the risk.

Cost benefit analysis.

Edited to make another point: murders are supervised by the state for years--and are limited in their ability to travel, to possess weapons, to be alone with certain individuals. Why should those who are so violent and cruel to animals be treated as if they simply committed a shoplift?

[smokey nj]

186. My question is why does Michael Vick even want a dog? It can't be because he loves dogs, a person

who loves dogs could not and would not do what he did to them. What Michael Vick did makes Seamus Romney's ride on the roof look like doggy heaven.

[LeftyMom]

138. I know a kid who has to take the bus because his mom lost her license for DUIs.

Nobody's punishing the kid, it's a public safety issue.

Further, is a kid safe in a home with a dog and Mike Vick? Would you bet your child's safety on Mike Vick's ability to raise a happy, well-socialized family dog?

[Myrina]

118. I just think he should be treated the way his dogs were

So, how many times has he been injured? Has Philly lost? And he's still alive? If he were one of his fighting dogs and lost, he'd have been strangled, shot, drowned, electrocuted, beaten to death ...

So what's the Eagles org's hold up? He's not winning them any money ... Terminate him.

I'll pay to watch, proceeds going to any of a variety of rescues or shelters.

[JVS]

177. I wouldn't put it past Philadephia's sports fans to do that.

[AtomicKitten]

124. I'm an unyielding hardass on this: He should never be allowed near an animal again.

Last edited Fri Oct 12, 2012, 04:29 AM - Edit history (4)

I believe people that commit animal cruelty are metaphorically speaking missing a gene that makes rehabilitation impossible. These people cannot be taught compassion. They can only be punished preferably with jail time and a huge fine. It has to hurt them where they feel it. Then they should do a gazillion hours of community service. Finally, they should never, ever be allowed anywhere near an animal, and that includes anyone in the immediate family if they reside together precluded from owning an animal.

[LynneSin]

128. Wow, just wow

Like I said - why bother having jails. We should just execute all criminals because our assumption is that people can't change.

It isn't a gene it's a culture one that is VERY commonly found in inner cities where dogfighting is comonly found. Vick was regularly exposed to this culture at a very young age and there were very few adults telling him 'this was wrong'. This is why the Humane Society continues to work with Michael Vick because they know he understands he culture better than anyone else. Even today, long after his sentence has been completed, Vick continues to work with HSUS to talk to kids in schools who are at-risk to this culture and even testify in front of congress about passing stricter dog-figthing laws.

I understand what it's like to be raised in a certain culture. My culture where I was raised for 2 decades taught me that minorities were inferior to whites and that gays were deviants. That wasn't just a few kids but an overwhelming way of life day-in and day-out from where I was raised. I was lucky, I found a way out of that culture and learned to think for myself. No, I didn't have to face jail but having a co-worker question me about my judgement on a gay couple that worked with us was a huge wakeup call and one that I learned a great deal.

[CakeGrrl]

141. You're fighting the good fight, but

to no avail, I think.

It seems people's compassion for offenders is quite selective and inconsistent. They just won't admit it.

[AtomicKitten]

142. I'm not selective nor inconsistent. My compassion is for the animals. Period.

[LynneSin]

143. THere's alot of emotions in a topic such as this

But facts tend to disappear quickly.

It's time to move on. Thank you for your post though.

[CakeGrrl]

153. Agreed. Minds aren't going to change on this, no matter how many times the topic arises. -nt

[Evergreen Emerald]

169. it is not about compassion for offenders. It is not about continued punishment

It is about protection. It is not about compassion for or against offenders.

It is about reality. It is about cost-benefit. The risk of harm is greater than the curtailment of the perpetrator's freedom.

Prohibitions occur because of criminal behavior all the time. DUI--loss of license, sometimes for years. Felon--loss of firearm rights, voting rights. Violent acts--no contact orders sometimes forever. Child molestation--lots of curtailments in where they live, frequent, see, etc.

And regarding compassion. I have lots of compassion for victims of crimes...and for innocent animals that totally depend on us for protection. Vick's freedom to live with an animal is not as important is the life and safety of the animal.

[AtomicKitten]

144. I remain unapologetic and firm in my resolve.

And I don't appreciate your brow-beating.

[LynneSin]

145. Oh I'm sorry, i'm just to sit back and take it from everyone else

[AtomicKitten]

147. Who accosted who here? Get that part straight.

I stand by my opinion. You are welcome to your own.

[Union Scribe]

151. You wouldn't be "taking" anything if you weren't lecturing everyone. nt

[mythology]

209. I don't see Lynn lecturing anybody

unless you count pointing out that many people in this thread are being really hypocritical and relying on emotion rather than logic.

How many people in this thread eat meat or wear leather? How many of us buy diamonds that came from conflict zones, buy computers made in countries with sub-human working conditions? How many of us spend money on frivolous things while thousands of kids die every day from lack of nutrition or medicine? Or are those different because because we haven't seen the pictures of those people or animals?

We decry the prison sentences handed out to drug addicts or people selling pot, how hard it is for felons to be successfully reintegrated into society, but apparently it doesn't apply in all cases.

I see a lot of hyperbolic ranting in order to be seen as the most pure in hatred, but I don't see very many people who seem to recognize that as humans we are all capable of great evil as well as great good. I know it's easy to say that Vick's a monster, but that's a cop out in my opinion because it's designed to distance his actions from our own. But history shows us, over and over again, just how easy it is to make us hate, to think of others as inhuman.

[flvegan]

196. You make me laugh.

You don't know shit about what's really going on. Sorry, is that taboo?

Culture? Vick may have been raised in a certain culture that apologists like to trump out like idiots.

Fact is, the dog abuser used his bonus money, his millionaire fundage to create a dog fighting kennel. Forgive that all you want.

"Oh, it's commonly found." How fantastic when it works for you. I have never before seen such an idiot argument to forgive a dogfighter and those that will come after him.

He hasn't changed.

Fact is, Michael Vick got caught. He established a dog fighting ring with his bonus money and ran with it as long as he could. Then he got caught, and his damage control folks stepped in. He did time. Insufficient for forgiveness that you've stated. HSUS used him as they could.

Stupidest post I've seen this week. You don't understand shit in regards to this.

[JoePhilly]

154. So I agree this topic generates lots of anger.

First, there is no gene for this.

Being cruel to animals, or to people, is usually a learned behavior.

Second ... Vick went to jail and lost out on what might have been his best years as a quarterback. I think he felt that.

Third ... Vick has been going to schools to talk about his crimes and to denounce such activity (generally speaking, he does not advertise this, but some reporters are covering it).

As for if or when he should be able to "be near" animals ... I think restrictions and supervision here are very appropriate. I would not impose a "no animal forever" policy ... but, I would want some very regular supervision.

And you can't force all immediate family members to never have an animal ... my son is 19 and living at college ... would he not be able to have a pet if I was Vick? I understand the intent, but its not workable.

[AtomicKitten]

165. Well to be fair --

Last edited Fri Oct 12, 2012, 04:41 AM - Edit history (5)

I have a pit rescue. Her name is Seven.

The physical abuse heals, but the psychological damage is forever.

So, to be fair, I have as much compassion for Vick as he had for his dogs ---> zip, nada, goose egg.

[JVS]

175. Has a "rehabilitation gene" been isolated? Is there any evidence for your belief or is it just...

opinion?

[AtomicKitten]

178. --

asked and already answered ...

I stand by my opinion. You are welcome to your own.

link: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=1514855

[JVS]

181. You didn't answer it. I'll put it more bluntly: what gene is responsible for rehabilitation?

[AtomicKitten]

182. QxQ: Did you miss something?

The 'metaphorically speaking' part of the sentence, perhaps ?????

[pecwae]

185. I absolutely agree.

The cruelty wiring is forever.

[MadHound]

152. Sorry, no forgiveness here. I've worked too long in pit rescue to forgive these people

Here are the products of Vick's little hobby(warning, graphic pics)












<img src="" border="0"></a>
<img src= "" border="0">
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I don't care what good works that Vick has done. I don't care how much it appears he has changed in regard to harming dogs. Anybody who would drown, choke, and otherwise torture an innocent animal should lose the privilege of ever caring for such an animal forever. I view it as akin to allowing a convicted pedophile to be a babysitter, or a habitual violent offender to have a gun. Nor do I care about his excuses that it was the environment, the culture that he was raised in. At some point he had to realize that not only was it illegal, but cruel and inhumane as well.

He's done his time(though personally I think sentencing guidelines for animal cruelty are woefully short), he's paid for his crime. But that doesn't mean we should allow him to once again trod the path that led to so much pain, suffering and death of innocent animals at his hands.

[easttexaslefty]

164. Amen. n/t

[southernyankeebelle]

157. I am a dog and cat owner and love them dearly. Now I don't know about football much these

days. I just don't follow it. But this man was sent to jail and did the time. I know nothing about him. I always thought people after paying their dues deserve a 2d chance. He was humiliated (well deserved), lost his income for awhile and now its time to change. Everyone is deserving of a second chance. What he did was wrong but I am sure he has learned a very valuable lesson.

[KamaAina]

160. Is his name Seamus?

[donheld]

173. Is there every a time when people forgive?

[yewberry]

174. "Forgive?" He hasn't taken responsibility. Not ONCE.

This is Lucas. He's still alive, despite Mike Vick's "hobby" of torturing and killing dogs. Lucas' whole life will be defined by the sadism and heartlessness of Mike Vick.

Yes, there is a time to forgive. But for Mr. Vick?

He blamed family members, he LIED to the judge about his involvement and that led to a greater sentence. He claimed innocence until his co-defendants pled guilty. He has NEVER admitted responsibility for dogs electrocuted, beaten, and tortured BY HIS HAND. Those poor animals were tortured for the entirety of their lives under his care. His "CARE." That vile POS beat innocent animals to death.

He pled guilty to trafficking because he was forced to.

Fuck Mike Vick. He may have done his time, but holy fuck, that man should never ever be responsible for the care of a dog.

[JVS]

176. Fuck him and Pete Rose!

[flvegan]

195. How specifically should they?

More to the point, how specifically would you?

[Honeycombe8]

190. I agree!!!!! nt

[Scout]

198. i don't care if he has changed or not

there is no appropriate punishment for what he did.

this was not some childish mistake, or a one time crime of passion. MV is a disgusting piece of shit. no forgiveness from me, i'm sure he doesn't care.

[Omaha Steve]

213. He should have been barred for life from owning any animal

Last edited Mon Oct 15, 2012, 04:27 AM - Edit history (1)

I'll error on the side of animals with this guy.

OS

[roody]

214. He will be redeemed when he gives

1 million dollars to Best Friends Animal Society. His dogs carry a disease caused by the fighting.

[flvegan]

216. No he won't.

He can't buy his way out of this one. He already tried that, albeit on the cheap.

There is no redemption for him, apologist Eagles fans responding posters aside.