It's not spending. It's loss of revenue that is driving the deficit up.

[Tennessee Gal]

This was presented on Morning Joe by a Bloomberg representative.

The Bush tax cuts and the two unfunded wars drove the deficit up far greater than the Obama stimulus.

Charts have been posted here showing that Obama has the slowest spending rate since Eisenhower. Here is one:



So, when Romney calls for tax cuts this will just exacerbate the problem because we all know that tax cuts do not stimulate job growth. This has been proven through the Bush years.

Revenue comes from job growth. So, to increase revenues more people have to be working. When more people are working, more product is purchased, more demand comes to manufacturers, and as a result more hiring is required. We, the people, are the job creators, not the wealthy who sit on their trillions of dollars or invest it overseas.

This is another reason to stop the advantage of American companies relocating out of country so that they can avoid paying US taxes on their profits.

Obama is right to focus on job growth.

I have looked for the Bloomberg article, but have not yet found it. It covers the question about whether we are better off now than four years ago.

Someone please post it when it is available.

[veganlush]

1. EXACTLY

It's so frustrating trying to get this fact out. I have been telling everyone this. I get blank stares in return. I explain to people that, in their household for example, debt and deficits can be made by spending too much of course, but they can also be made by bringing IN too little in income. If you spend about the same as last year, but suffer a massive pay cut, you're gonna increase your debt and blow your budget. Why do people have such hard time understanding that tax revenue is the government's paycheck which it uses to pay it's bills for everything from military to libraries to bridges to the CDC. Thanks to bush and grover and the repugnants, we have been cutting our paycheck for decades.

[Tennessee Gal]

2. Yes, it is frustrating.

I was glad the Bloomberg guy brought this out this morning.

I want to read that article as soon as I can find it, but I have to get to work soon. I am hoping someone here will find it and post it.

[fasttense]

6. I too am a Tennessee Resident and thought I was the ONLY democrat in the state:

I am SO glad to see that others here in TN can see that the RepubliCON way of doing things is wrecking the economy and destroying our way of life. Now how can we manage to educate the rest of TN and get them to stop voting against their own best interests?

[Tennessee Gal]

9. Changing Tennessee will be difficult.

I am a Tennessee native and I remember the days when it wasn't this way.

I still have hope. I plant seeds of doubt whenever possible, but I cannot be too vocal due to my job responsibilities.

[Tennessee Gal]

3. We actually had a triple whammy during the Bush years.

Tax cuts, too much spending, and job losses.

[former-republican]

27. you forgot a needless war , stimulus , bail outs

"Tax cuts, too much spending, and job losses"









That was the start yes but then government grew.

I think even without the Bush tax cuts government spent too much.

[Honeycombe8]

4. It's both. The spending increases every yr automatically. W/decreased revenues every yr,

it compounds the problem, and the deficit soars.

[Tennessee Gal]

5. Yes, spending increases are built into the system to some extent.

But the chart shows that Obama is not spending like he is accused of doing.

And there is also the interest on the debt.

[fozzieferocious]

7. In addition........

I made a point to a Republican (I'm in GA - SIGHHH!) leaning, independentish, voted for Obama last time sort of coworker yesterday regarding government revenue...

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2011/02/income-inequality-in-america-chart-graph

If Middle Class salaries had kept pace with the economic growth that this country has experienced since the 1970s, then the median salary should be like $90,000 and not $50,000!!!!! Instead we've been royally screwed by greedy corporations keeping wages artificially low and things like the off-shoring jobs. Who all has received no raise or maybe 1% for like the last 5 years? ME! And I work in tech! The company I worked for previously posted record profits during those "down" years where we had to suck it up and take a 1% raise! Then, before I left, the company sold to a much larger company and all the VP's cashed out their stock, took million dollar bonuses and RETIRED!

Just how much more money would the government be raking in if the median salary was $40k higher? How many more people would be off Medicaid? Medicare? Food Stamps? How much less would all the social programs cost? How many more small businesses would have been started? How much lower would the national debt be? How much better of a position would our society be in?

Oh, and then the richest 10% want to complain that they're paying too great a share of the income taxes! Well no shit!

[Tennessee Gal]

8. Exactly and thanks for the graph.

I personally had to change career directions due to the crappy Bush economy. I am now making much less.

[fozzieferocious]

12. Very sorry to hear...

I know for as annoyed as I am at the pathetic pay increases that there's too many like you, that have had it much worse. There's far too many still unemployed. Unfortunately I think the bar for pay has been lowered and the bar for expectations on the job has risen. I saw something the other day that like 60% of workers now work more than 50 hours a week, so they essentially work for free for 10 hours. Now that many have smart phones connected to corporate email there's a semi-expectation you should be responding late at night from home as well. That's why productivity is through the roof while salaries have actually fallen in the last decade. Companies have realized that they can extract more from each worker and employ less people with the same net results at a lower cost. Parasitic capitalism at it's finest!

I think about the only real way out at this point is to start your own small business of some sort. That likely requires far more than 50 hours a week. It's certainly no easy path but I know the rewards and freedom can be great.

[Tennessee Gal]

18. I am grateful that I do have a job.

What you say about pay is very true.

I work 9 hours a day, but only get paid for 8. And I do work from home when I maintain and update our social media site at night and on weekends.

Not much can be done about that, especially when employers know that they basically have workers trapped due to the scarcity of jobs.

Parasitic capitalism is the correct term.

[MadHound]

10. Actually, I would say that our massive military spending is the largest part of the problem,

We're sucking up over half our annual budget on military spending. Eliminate a good chunk of that and we could fund so many programs that help people and this country, and reduce our debt load.

[fozzieferocious]

14. Right...

That's the other half. The military-industrial complex is completely absurd. We've got to end our empire and bring our troops home if there is to be any hope of real longevity for this country. We're well on our way to the same fate as any other great, over-extended empire in history. Due to technology and industrialization it is happening at a MUCH faster rate. Unfortunately it'll never happen. We're on the path we're on and I don't believe it will change.

[Tennessee Gal]

19. Oh, but the right would say Obama is making our country less safe if defense spending were cut.

Never mind that this nation already spends more on defense than all other nations combined and we have no defined nation/state enemy.

[OldDem2012]

11. Bingo! Factors: Lower salaries/hourly wages equals less taxes....

...paid at all levels. Additionally, lower pay means less disposable income to spend on things other than the basics of housing, food, and transportation. Higher prices across the board is also cutting into disposable income. Add to that the number of unemployed who are obviously not paying any taxes. Also, the very wealthy and large corporations are being taxed at 15% or less, resulting in more lost revenue.

Solutions? Employ more people to increase the overall tax base, get rid of the massive tax cuts for the wealthy and large corporations, get rid of the oil speculators driving up the price of oil resulting in higher transportation and shipping costs, create massive public works programs (like FDR's programs) to employ still more people/create more tax revenue, cut the fat in the Defense Department to include all unnecessary programs to include the war in Afghanistan.

[Tennessee Gal]

20. I like your solutions. nt

[fozzieferocious]

23. Expanding the tax base is key...

Republicans would like to do that by simply forcing people making poverty-level wages also pay taxes. The proper and moral way to go about this should be to help people lift themselves out of poverty to the lowest possible income tax bracket or higher. Bolster the Middle Class!

[Tennessee Gal]

25. Yes, they want to squeeze the economically least among us.

And that is the absolute worst thing that could happen.

I wish the American people would wake up!

[former-republican]

28. they have in other countries

"I wish the American people would wake up"

[theKed]

30. I don't understand

why this doesn't get done.
Lets assume there's a trillion dollar tax cut on the block. (i'm going to use completely hypothetical numbers here, since I'm on my phone) Why not halt that and take that 1 000 000 000 000 and make federal infrastructure jobs? If they pay, say, 50 000 a year, taxed at 25% (bullshit number... phone), that's 5 million jobs a year for 4 years (20 million jobs total) which would. Actually, that doesn't factor in materal costs, etc But even if HALF of that trillion went into wages and created 2.5 million jobs a year over 4 years, it would:

1. put a BIG dent in the unemployed figures
2. stimulate the economy to the tune of a trillion bucks
3. only actually cost 500 billion (recovering the other half through taxes)

Maybe thats too much like admitting Keynes was right, though. And we'd need a dem house and senate. Obviously i don't specific details - what projects, what jobs at which wage levels, tax recovery on those wages. What i do know is that America needs another New Deal.

[Tennessee Gal]

32. Yes, America does need another New Deal.

I like your ideas.

[CTyankee]

13. I love the way that Joe just had to sit there and take it.

The stimulus was NOT, repeat NOT, the reason for increase in the deficit. He had to get that from Bloomberg, not a Dem. It had to be tough for him to swallow...I was so happy!

[Tennessee Gal]

15. Yes, I noticed that.

It was beautiful.

But he will just turn around and lie again saying Obama has caused our deficit to go through the roof.

[CTyankee]

17. He really can't do that as easily now. Of course, hard line RWers will believe it but

the cat is out of the bag for everybody else to see. Joe can't go on and on about how "even if we tax the rich it won't help the deficit much." He says that a LOT and when he does I always yell at the TV "But that's not a reason NOT to do it!"

[porphyrian]

16. Thank obstructionist Congressional republicans! n/t

[reformist2]

21. The Bush-era tax code only works when stock market is in a bubble... and even then.

When the stock market is flat or (gasp!) moves down, revenues dry up. It's no way to collect revenue.

[Tennessee Gal]

22. Good point ... thanks.

It is an especially poor way to collect revenue when the tax code is built to protect the wealthy from paying taxes through loopholes, etc.

[tama]

24. Consumerist US

It is said two thirds of US economy is based on consuming. Since 1980 real value of wages - purchasing power - has not been growing, and consumerist economy has been based on growing debt. Since 2008 people have been doing what they can to get rid of household debt by cutting consumption, while public debt has continued ballooning, currently at 16 trillion. Money is not moving much in consumerist economy, and consumption of oil etc. natural resources is dropping in US (and other OECD countries, taken up by China, India etc.).

[Tennessee Gal]

26. Consumer spending cannot rise while wages are decreasing.

That is a simple concept to grasp.

The job market is just now showing real signs of improving. We now need wages to improve also.

[tama]

31. It is simple concept.

However, against improving wages international capital will keep on looking for cheaper labor elsewhere, while food and energy prices will keep on going up. US is in the same neoliberal shithole of "race to the bottom" as the rest of world, and "consumer driven economy" is not really an economy, it's just a big mouth. Destroying the carrying capacity of Earth's ecosystem.

[Tom Rinaldo]

29. Which Party's Presidents had the 3 lowest growth rates? Bingo. n/t