Chavez won 54% of the vote

[malaise]

Phew - Petro Caribe remains in place.

[dipsydoodle]

1. For the general benefit of thickos like me

who had to look that up: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Petrocaribe

I hadn't realised that Jamaica had an agreement with Venezuela.

[malaise]

7. Nearly all Caribbean territories benefit from that deal

Nice to see our radio stations begin with our self interests for a change.

[dipsydoodle]

8. I hadn't realised that

Thought it was just Cuba.

[Ash_F]

2. His margin has been getting smaller, but that is not necessarily a bad thing

Here's a thought I had on the strengthening of Chavez's opposition. That could be a sign that they are being brought closer to the center by the counter-weight that is Chavez's party. Ultimately, this could be better for the country, as both parties are more representative of the people.

Not saying that I know this is the explanation, I am not in-depth into Venezuela's politics. It's just a theory.

[coalition_unwilling]

28. Excellent hypothesis. Like you, though, I'm no expert and not sure how

to test your idea other than through standard public-opinion polling.

[leveymg]

3. Viva!

[malaise]

5. Indeed despite all the RW rhetoric

No one else helps us with our fuel costs.

[leveymg]

13. Actually, the Saudis do, but we have to help them with Jihad. You figure the cost/benefit of that

deal.

[malaise]

19. Should I calculate that in blood, treasure

Or both?

[leveymg]

24. Karma.

Takes her due, no matter how we want to calculate it.

[malaise]

30. I can only hope

[Scootaloo]

25. There are so many variables!

A white male protestant-christian heterosexual American between the ages of 18 and 30 is of course the premium life-value. His death can be measured at 1. Apparently human life only scales downward from that point.

[Bucky]

4. Yuck.

If it's about the reforms and not about him personally, he'd groom a successor and pass it off to someone else. Without rotation in office, you get corruption. Chavez is corruption.

[malaise]

6. Huh?

At least there were no voter suppression attempts in Venezuela unlike the ReTHUGs in the US. What's more corrupt than that.

[Bucky]

9. I'm not sure where you got your information from.

But I got mine from Venezuelans. And yes, there certainly are voter suppression efforts there.

[JonLP24]

17. I don't know how credible they are

but the elections there have been monitored there by the EU and Organisation of American States and declared free and fair. Jimmy Carter even said the “the election process in Venezuela is the best in the world”. There have been more sets of national elections in Chavez 15 years than 40 years prior.

[Kindly Refrain]

22. Venezuelans in the US

Last edited Mon Oct 8, 2012, 04:07 PM - Edit history (1)

Yeah, they aren't at all biased. I've met Venezuelans in the US as well and they all strike me as greedy, the reason they fled Venezuela.

[Ash_F]

29. Venezuelians who can afford to come to the US.

Sets them apart from most Venezuelan's from the get go.

[dipsydoodle]

10. Without rotation in office you get corruption.

You make it sound like the USA's Congress and Senate where there are no term limits.

[Ghost in the Machine]

11. +1,000,000,000!!! n/t

[Bucky]

14. An excellent example

Read the debates on the Constitution in 1787-1788. They diagnosed about 80% of the problems we faced today--demagogues, corruption, alliances between wealth and political power, and the cultural disconnection of the government's concerns from the people.

Interestingly, the Founding Fathers were big government activist liberals who accommodated the powerful on Wall Street, just like a certain president I know.

[Scootaloo]

23. And yet, the Eternal Campaign Season just makes the problem worse

Frankly put, corruption is just going to be there. It's an integral (if undesirable) part of any government system you can conjure up. Pounding your chest about it is just pointless fucking garble. Any system that involves self-interested apes is going to have corruption. The more power that system wields, the more corruption will be evident and logically the sharper impact it will have. The only way to end corruption is to do away with human-operated systems.

So basically, it's the Anarchist / Libertarian problem; the world would work just fine under their models, if it weren't for all the gosh-darned people who keep existing in the actual reality!

About the closest you could come is a randomized lottery system, where each citizen has an equal chance as any other citizen of filling a given position. Even then the laws overseeing the operations of this randomly-selected government would have to be both strict and harsh, else they'd probably just legislate to get rid of the randomized allotment system altogether!

[malaise]

21. Shhhhhhhhh!

[Tom_x]

18. Notice

>> Chavez is corruption

Notice the complete lack of even a shred of proof.

Just some whiny crybaby running his mouth

[nc4bo]

12. And the other 46% want to move the the U.S. - taking their toys with them.

Sounded real familiar. They just hate all those free handouts to the lessers.

[TBF]

15. K&R the people have spoken -

despite the authoritarian nonsense in this thread.

[Coyotl]

16. Viva la Democracia! Viva Chavez!

Viva la Revolucion!

[Tom_x]

20. Yep

Viva Chavez

[reformist2]

26. The US has stupidly given this guy the cold shoulder just because he's a socialist.

Sure he's an ideologue, but would Chavez have aligned himself with China and Iran if we had engaged him? Who knows. Our response to him has been purely ideological. And from a geopolitical perspective, stupid.

[Populist_Prole]

31. Or/And because the right wing noise machine says so

It's funny ( or outright maddening ) to hear right wingers profess their hate for him almost on cue, even though his existence does not affect their lives at all, much less negatively. It's so obvious they dislike him due to "team player" tribalism bullshit. They're even madder now that his supposed bad health hasn't killed him yet. I can't imagine that sort of hate, but that's what happens when one lives in a right wing bubble.

[Starry Messenger]

27. k&r