The Evolution of The Learning Channel - How Privatization Works.

[TalkingDog]

[xocet]

1. Thanks for the interesting post. That is a pathetic trajectory. n/t

[WorseBeforeBetter]

2. Now *that's* a good tweet. (n/t)

[mathematic]

3. I just looked it up... it was privatized in 1980.

That pretty much means that almost any TLC that anybody remembers was a privatized TLC.

[TalkingDog]

5. Bless your heart. Some of us were adults in 1980.

But I'm glad you can add and subtract. Good for you.

[mathematic]

11. No need to be a jerk about it

With that "bless your heart" nonsense. The TLC format change started in the mid-to-late 90s, well after it was privatized.

So what was your favorite program on The Learning Channel back in the 70s?

[TalkingDog]

16. A: Yes I was a jerk

When a given person presumes that everyone has the same life and the same experiences, it sets my bullshit meter to full tilt. Kinda like Mitt Romney does. My patience for people who assume is .... limited.

There are a lot of people on this board (and by a lot I mean fully 1/3rd, if not more) over the age of 50.

B: Bless your heart is a Southern blessing (I feel so sorry for you) and a Southern curse (really, really sorry for you) depending on context. You appear to be bright, I'll let you figure out which one I meant.

C: I was living in a 4 room cinderblock house that cost 75 dollars a month in the 1970's. I ate government cheese and butter. I ate free school breakfast and lunch. I'll let you guess if there was money left over for cable or satellite TV.

[femrap]

56. tehe...

and his name is mathematic....ironic, I guess.

Gosh, you like me, remember when lots of TV was actually geared to those who have and USE their brains. Now we have 'Duck Dynasty.' I had no idea what that was until over the weekend I saw a promo....seriously, that show is SICK....SCARY SICK. Plus something about Swamp People. And all of the pregnant shows. 'Secretly Pregnant' 'Obese and Pregnant' '16 and Pregnant.'

I look through the TV guide that comes w/ the Sunday paper and I am

[HiPointDem]

76. i think, though, that the poster is correct. tlc didn't become a travesty until much later. and

i would guess the 1996 telecom bill was part of the reason.

not just privatization; deregulated privatization.

the major networks were private. but they weren't as bad as 80% of today's cable.

[MH1]

33. So do you support privatization?

It's interesting that it was privatized that long ago. But you shouldn't assume that no one remembers it before it was privatized.

And of course it takes awhile for changes to roll in. For one thing, if they had switched to crap immediately, it would have been obvious that privatization degenerates content, and we can't have stuff like that being obvious to the masses, now can we?

Anyway, do you generally support privatization of stuff like this? or, for example, privatizing Social Security? Medicare vouchers?

[mathematic]

38. Ugh. Terrible reasoning.

I point out that the tweet has a faulty premise and somehow I'm some enemy of the people. How utterly dull. Why don't you list the ways that social security is similar to the original The Learning Channel and then we can go from there. Maybe they both started out being delivered via NASA satellite.

TLC continued to show educational programming for a solid decade and a half after it was privatized. That's longer than it was public. You allege that this period was a conspiracy, a sham, to fool "the masses"... for what? To hide that the ultimate intent of the privatization was to program brainless reality shows? Sounds like a pitch for a new TLC program, "Ancient Privatizations".

I'm still waiting for somebody that actually remembers the pre-privatization TLC to show up. I wouldn't be surprised if some DUer actually does remember it. The internet is full of people, after all. Probably some retired aerospace engineer or something. From descriptions of the original TLC, I would be surprised if it was in more than 100k homes. If you'd like to add something to this discussion, perhaps you can add information about TLC's availability in the 70s.

[kenfrequed]

47. I would argue the point a bit.

The 'fruits' of privatization are not immediate, nor are it's curses. It occurs many times over many a banal programming meeting as people sit around a table and talk about ratings and earnings. It is about structural inevitability of taking things for profit.

And don't try to make it sound like anyone that criticizes the movement of privatization is engaging inconspiratorial thinking. Again, this is the structure and the more privatized and less bound our media has been bound by things like the fairness doctrine and requirements to provide public service and information the further it has fallen. Of course there is lag time between the decisions and the commodification. If it were immediate then one could possibly argue that there was a scheme at work. No, the terrible programming on The Learning Channel is more the result of gradual surrender to cash over actual education.

But quibbling over the dates and attempting to demand people discuss their favorite Learning Channel shows from the 70's is more about trying to distract what the argument agaisnt privatization is really pointing out.

A: The overall absurdity of profit over public service

and

B: The Romney Campaigns discussion about privatizing public television.

Which side do you want to be on either of those points?

[Doremus]

49. So what is your point?

That privatization had no effect on the content of TLC? That entertainment shows like Honey Boo Boo and others are better than academic-based programming?

You would have a tough time making either argument, imo.

[mathematic]

73. I wasn't making any comment on those issues.

But I think they're interesting so I'll answer them.

Privatization may have had an effect on the content of TLC. I really don't know what the content of TLC in the 70s was like. It doesn't seem like anybody knows. For example, I'd like to know if 70s TLC was literally instructional, like a professor giving a lecture, or if it was more of the "nature documentary" sort of learning that has always been a mainstay of educational tv.

On the other hand, I WAS saying that privatization had no effect on the content of TLC as most people remember it, before and after around the mid-to-late 90s, since that was well after it had been privatized (existing for a decade and a half or so as an private educational-tv channel.)

As for entertainment vs. academic programming, I'd say entertainment programs are better for entertainment than academic programs and academic programs are better for academics than entertainment programs. Perhaps that's an unsatisfying answer. Essentially, they are different things with different purposes and both are better suited than the other to address those purposes. The amount of content in both categories has only grown over the years. So while you can say that "TLC" switched to one at the expense of the other, you can't really say that about the categories as a whole.

[femrap]

59. From an

older than you....I think you missed the 'Manners Lesson' aired on 'The Howdy Doody Show,' 'Captain Kangaroo' and 'The Mickey Mouse Club.'

Maybe the Telly Tubbies could be of help to you...making a good impression instead of spitting on the sidewalk as a newbie.

You're not welcome in my world of DU...now go report me.

[mathematic]

71. MY manners?

To quote the first person to respond to me, "bless your heart".

Right? Though I admit it was pretty helpful when that poster informed me that there were people over the age of 50. I mean, I didn't even realize that! They even gave me such positive reinforcement regarding my arithmetic skills! I thought that was very polite, indeed. And the only thing I had to do was point out that nobody actually remembers the pre-privatization TLC. (Which seems even truer now since nobody has chimed in with a recollection of it.)

[femrap]

83. I'm not from the

South, so 'bless your heart' doesn't mean something bad.

Oh well, I didn't have cable for a long time...and TLC is on cable, right? So I really couldn't tell you the difference. Lots of people don't have cable. It's expensive....but to those with the $$$, maybe not.

Sorry, I just don't get what you're in a tizzy about.

[WinkyDink]

61. "Ancient Privatizations"! Bwah! "Next Sunday: The Failure of Aqua Niger in Guarding Caesar."

[MH1]

67. I asked a question. You still didn't answer it.

You pointed out something that's irrelevant but claim that it upsets the premise of the o.p.

As others have asked, so what's your point?

Ya know, if you're not a supporter of privatization, all you have to do is say that you aren't, and that you just pointed out the timing because you thought it was interesting and potentially relevant. I disagree with it being relevant but that could be a topic of a civil discussion. I think its irrelevance suggests you may have had another motive for posting it. If that's not the case you could simply say so.

And, the fact that you don't see the goal of the right-wing in privatizing damned near EVERYTHING as a common thread between TLC and various government programs such as Social Security, adds further weight to the impression you are giving. (From other replies I see that I'm not the only one getting that impression.)

[mathematic]

72. What is this, an interrogation?

Yes, others have asked various questions, raised plenty of strawmen and burned them down too.

Do you even realize that the Corporation for Public Broadcasting as well as Sesame Street are private? Public broadcasting is a bit of a misnomer. From what I can tell it's mostly private. It just happens to get a large minority of its funds from public sources.

Another poster pointed out that TLC was privatized during the Carter administration. How does that fit in with your narrative that it was part of a rightwing agenda? Since we're talking about something that actually happened, feel free to respond with the actual facts of how and why it was privatized. Personally, I'm curious about them and I'd greatly enjoy reading about what actually happened, as opposed to some idealized fantasy of what happened. Why would I see the privatization of TLC in 1980 as a impetus of the rightwing? Because it's convenient?

Finally, you are free to draw whatever baseless conclusions you want about me. What if I do say I'm against Social Security privatization? Do you apologize to me or something? Ask more irrelevant questions? Attribute more ridiculous positions to me? Where does it all end? What's the point?

[kenfrequed]

82. Actually

I see that you seem to launch many red herrings at anything that you construe to be a straw man. I suppose it might be easier, and more logically consistent to actually respond to questions as to what your position is but clarification doesn't seem to be your purpose.

I will note that you did not respond to direct challenges or direct questions.

I will re-pose my questions:

Are you in favor of privatization as somehow being a good thing in general and specifically with regard to public television.

Feel free to parse or seperate the questions, or better yet refer to my question above.

[FiveGoodMen]

50. That means it was done pre-Reagan

[malaise]

4. Great post

Ignorance is bliss!

[BarackTheVote]

6. This is what I've been going on about!

Save PBS!

[GeorgeGist]

7. Evolution generally connotes improvement.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

10. She's adorable. But that pet pig...

sh*tting on the kitchen table was a bit much...

[snooper2]

41. Not realy adorable, she's becoming obese..

Her parents should focus on her health instead of dressing her up like a clown

[WorseBeforeBetter]

45. She's still a cute kid.

Last edited Mon Oct 8, 2012, 08:30 PM - Edit history (1)

But if she doesn't watch it, she'll end up 300+ lbs like her mother, and waaay overweight like her sisters.

Extreme couponing. Goofy pageants. Teen pregnancy... the show's got it all. Maybe someday they'll all end up on The Biggest Loser - Family Edition.

[Blanks]

53. The biggest loser. Loser Edition. eom

[bongbong]

51. Yes

IMHO a couple of the biggest reasons that people watch crap like the various Housewife shows or Boo Boo is to have a self-satisfied feeling of "I can't be as dumb as everyone tells me - I'm smarter than that idiot on the tube!", as well as being able to say "look at the crap they show on TV, I guess me watching _________________ isn't that bad".

[femrap]

58. Humans as

a species peaked roughly around 1968-1969. Things started heading downward in the '70's....but WOW, when Raygun came to the party, it was obvious that Honey Boo Boo would be here in the new century.

But before that we had to go through the 'No Shame' years starting w/ possibly Jerry Springer. And some of these no shame talkers still continue today.

I was thinking the other day....'Why not have a station that airs nothing but old B & W TV shows?!' OK and throw in some 'Laugh In' and 'MTM.'

There should be decade TV show channels like there are music decade shows....'60, '70, etc. I could live in the past instead of dealing w/ the fooking present. lol

[ThoughtCriminal]

8. Yes, but so many choices

Just flip over to the History Channel and...

Shit.

Never mind.

[progressoid]

12. Or "Arts and Entertainment"

[LadyHawkAZ]

19. Or Discovery. n/t

[Hestia]

57. or National Geographic

[abumbyanyothername]

65. I used to love Planet Green

but where the hell is it on my new DirectTV lineup.

Speaking of DirectTV, I fortunately missed the Lakers on the wrong end of a 35-0 run by the Golden State Warriors last night, thanks to the wonders of free-market capitalism. From: A former Lakers fan.

[Fuddnik]

42. South Park did a number on Honey Boo Boo last week.

Hilarious.

[shanti]

81. more often than not

the "history" channel has something on about religion. same thing with nat geo, but they add guns to the mix. never used to be that way...

[sakabatou]

9. I remember when it was The Learning Channel

Now it's... nothing like it at all.

[abumbyanyothername]

66. I watched it when we first got cable in Iowa.

Late 70s. One of my favorite channels with a lot of space and science programming.

Then I went through my "no TV" phase in the early 80s . . . like not even sports on TV.

[progressoid]

13. But it's award winning.

It won a Pigasus Award.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pigasus_Award

[jerseyjack]

17. Pigasus was nominated for president outside the 1968 Chicago Democratic Convention.

Tell me he is still around, I will vote for him in November. At least he didn't tell any lies in his acceptance speech.

[Initech]

14. A dollar doesn't make you holler???

[BlueinOhio]

15. Easy to control

A populace that is afraid and ignorant is easy to control. Spewing lies over and over gets people to believe anything they want.

[Orrex]

18. No other channel has fallen farther than TLC

Up through the early 90s there was no better channel available in my market for science-based and factual programming. The closest contender was The Discovery Channel, which had already started creeping toward crap.

But no TLC is the absolute worst of the worst. It's been heading there for years, and my only fear is that it hasn't yet come close to hitting bottom.

[AllyCat]

31. Is this the one that has that crappy "Bounty Hunters"?

I've been trying to figure out why that is educational, but everyone seems to watch it while saying "this is just background noise. I'm not really watching it".

[Erose999]

39. Well A&E used to be highbrow stuff for the wine and cheese crowd. Now its hoarders, intervention,

and Dog the Bounty Hunter.

[Orrex]

43. A fine point

It's a race to the bottom, all right.

I'll still say that TLC is the worst of them, but there are many contenders.

[Third Doctor]

20. TLC used to be one of my favorite channels.

Now it along with History, TDC and slowly Nat Geo are being overrun by the awful reality shows.

[JVS]

21. Before it was privatized it was called the Appalachian Community Service Network.

So in a perverse way the current shows actually fulfill the channel's destiny.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

22. America needs to learn about this...

[img][/img]

[Sekhmets Daughter]

36. Exactly what is this?

[Spitfire of ATJ]

37. Honey Boo Boo's mom.

See? Ya learned something.

[Sekhmets Daughter]

77. Are you telling mw people

actually watch that on television?

[Spitfire of ATJ]

80. The ones that do pronounce "wash" as "worsh".

[secondvariety]

44. Joel McHale

of the Soup calls her The Thumb.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

46. See? I didn't need to learn that....

[itsrobert]

23. Don't forget 19 KIDS AND COUNTING

n/t

[tomm2thumbs]

24. T R U T H ! stranger than fiction but sad such truths are out there

Shows you what kind of world Romney hopes to create with his 'plan' to fix America

More like taking America to the vet to get 'fixed'

[progressoid]

25. Just saw this related pic on FB...

[KT2000]

26. Remember being excited

to get A & E and TLC when satellite came to my area. What a disappointment. There is arts or learning about these channels - just sensational and fake reality shows.

[Archae]

27. I still have some shows taped off TLC...

Back when it *WAS* The Learning Channel.

Especially shows about cats, and this show about squirrels getting into bird feeders.

[kentauros]

28. They also had this excellent show called "The Operation"

and featured one medical operation each episode. A friend of mine and I would often watch it at his apartment due to him having cable back then. The one operation I remember the most was one for bunion removal, mostly because the doctor explained things well and made it all seem so simple and easy.

But there wasn't one single iota of sensationalism about it. The only way we'll ever see the likes of that subject for a series again is if PBS creates it.

[johnlucas]

29. Something always goes wrong when Words turn to Acronyms

When it was The Learning Channel, there was no mistaking its purpose or reason for being.
The Learning Channel is The Channel for Learning.

When it became TLC, well what does that really mean?
Tender Loving Care? Tools Loving Cable? Totally Ludicrous Crapola?

Same thing happened to MTV which was supposed to stand for Music TeleVision.
It never played ALL types of music & there was always a problem with that but it DID put Music TO Television hence the Music Video.
Then somewhere along the line "reality" shows took over to the point that you actually longed for the days of TRL & those horrible boy bands of the late 90s & early 2000s.
Good luck finding any music or even music-related stuff on MTV nowadays.

Stuff like this is part of the reason I got rid of cable.
I just have internet now. Born & raised on TV (used to have TV Guide & everything) but don't miss it one bit today.

AMC—American Movie Classics—may be playing some interesting shows lately but these are TV shows not Movies & certainly not Movie Classics.
At least HSN—Home Shopping Network—is still true to its name but that's not saying much, is it?
I remember when HeadLine News—HLN—actually just showed headline news instead of the squawking Nancy Grace & Joy Behar gossiping all the time.

At least TBS & TNT were open to interpretation for programming. Turner Broadcasting System & Turner Network Television could play anything Ted Turner wanted them to play. From WCW Monday Nitro to Tyler Perry's House of Payne.

But for the most part it's a bad sign when Words turn to Acronyms.
Usually mean someone's trying to hide something.
KFC? No, it's Kentucky Fried Chicken—for good AND bad.
John Lucas

[Erose999]

40. I remember the one about squirrels, and how they could outwit nearly and obstacle between them and

the bird feeder.

[AllyCat]

30. No cable here, but when it is on at work, I am floored this is "learning"

Horrible channel.

[nc4bo]

32. This is viral on Facebook....I have 122 shares since you posted it...

compound that by the 122 sharing amongst their friends and we have a viral entity. I'm just a tiny example!

Can't ask for a better form of public information sharing, awareness and knowledge.

Keep spreading the word!!

[4th law of robotics]

34. I'm not sure if that's due to privatization

the History channel was never publicly owned. And they used to show actual history.

Now they show pawn stars.

Same with the sci-fi channel (sorry, syfy which apparently means wrestling).

I think we just became very very stupid in the last decade or so.

[nc4bo]

35. I remember when TWC was a 24/7 365 day weather machine, now.....not so much.

Every time we've experienced severe weather threats, TWC was of absolutely no use whatsoever. Too busy showing Storm Troopers over Ontario while ice fishing or something to be bothered with weather related news and emergencies.

[maryellen99]

78. It's gone downhill since NBC/Comcast/GE took over nt

[JI7]

60. remember when History Channel was being made fun of for all the Hitler Stuff

but at least it was still showing history then.

[femrap]

62. I've mentioned

The Business Roundtable before but everyone thinks I am sort of conspiracy person. The Business Roundtable is divided up by the various business fields. So there is the Financial Roundtable. The AG/Food Roundtable. And of course the MEDIA ROUNDTABLE.

These dudes sit around in luxury and decide how to manipulate and control the stupid masses. I'm not kidding. When you start to see a trend in any area, one of the Roundtables has decided it to be. And DUMBED-DOWN is the way we have been going. The masses who are not controlled by Religion are controlled by Duck Dynasty, Tots with Tiaras (Pedophiles love this show) and Storage Wars.

It's all about Control and sucking everyone's brain into the sewer.

These Roundtable dudes are really sick....sicker than Honey Boo Boo's Family....and that's a fact!

[onethatcares]

48. you forgot to mention

they also show "Hoarders".

[defacto7]

52. We completely dumped cable, satellite and TV in general

about 4 years ago. We have a family of 4... and this was the best thing we ever did.

TLC, History, all the Science channels, Arts and Entertainment, even the food network have gone to hell let alone the main networks. Useless. We just get our choice of DVDs if we want to watch anything. Reading. writing and drawing have become my kids favourite activities.

[nycbiscuit]

54. Honey Boo Boo IS edumacational

I learnt how to make Sketti!

In all seriousness, though, I do appreciate the David Koch-funded Nova on PBS. If only there were a lot more of that on TLC and PBS.

[Curmudgeoness]

55. I don't have cable or satellite. And after reading

through this thread, I don't regret it. When I got rid of cable, Discovery Channel was in the toilet. Now it looks like everything needs flushed.

[Enrique]

63. Honey Boo Boo represents the Real America

she is the purest expression of what the Founding Fathers envisioned for America, which is why the lame stream media hates her so much.

[Iris]

69. +1

[guappo1]

64. thanks for the FYI

I was not aware of TLC was part of NASA and Health Department. I remember enjoying the station but saw it change. I have not watched anything on TLC for several years.

[abumbyanyothername]

68. Rather than privatization

I think we can safely blame the internet.

And especially as youtube has gotten more robust, those who want to watch informative video have migrated.

[Iris]

70. Have you read any of the other posts here?

This started long before people started migrating to the internet.

And, frankly, I don't find much on the internet that's all that informative anymore either.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

74. I dropped cable when A&E and BBCAmerica dropped shows that I liked

in the middle of their seasons (A&E dropped "MI-5" in the middle of its fourth season, and BBCAmerica dropped "Bad Girls," the last of its dramas, with three episodes left in its third season, before it went through its all "reality" show stage.)

Now most of my viewing is with my Roku or imported DVDs. Between Netflix, Hulu Plus, and Acorn Online, I have more content than I have time to watch--and I get to choose what to watch and when.

[HiPointDem]

75. kr

[joeglow3]

79. No. Expect shit if you want free programming

Any channel that is free (or near free) is going to rely on advertising to pay their bills. Advertisers care about one thing - numbers of viewers. Thus, networks are going to appeal to the lowest common denominator. Sadly, this is more a commentary on us.

There are a decent channels out there, but they are buried in digital cable hell because no one watches them (I enjoy Discovery Military Channel and Discovery Science).