You know what I find scary? When the two parties agree on a lie. That is terrifying.

[originalpckelly]

You know like the lie that we had a surplus under Clinton and Gingrich in the 1990s.

I said this the night of the debate because I find it so damn troubling and downright scary. I don't mean that as a joke of any kind.

Can you think of anything more terrifying than absolute nonsense being agreed to, the wool being being pulled over so many people's eyes, and then having no large reports in the news media.

Only a couple nights ago, the current President resorted to this out and out lie in the debate.

It's not that this is information that is inaccurate, these people know damn well that this is not true.

If we were to think like this, when people racked up debt, we could consider it income. Can you imagine doing that in your own life?

The government robbed social security. They took the surpluses in those programs, and then used them to fill in the deficit that the rest of the government had during those and all other years.

You know Al Gore's lockbox everyone made fun of? That's why they needed a lockbox.

This is Enron accounting, there is no way to say anything but that. I wish it was true, and I suppose if I just shut up about the 1990s nonsense, then it will be.

Hey, if the government ruled by either party, the news media, and general population don't say it isn't, then I guess it becomes true, doesn't it?

[AverageJoe90]

1. What do you mean?

We did, in fact, have a surplus under Clinton, and it was thanks to Democratic policies.

[originalpckelly]

2. Um, no.

That was only with money taken from Social Security.

[stevenleser]

4. Link please. nt

[Indpndnt]

3. What the....?

[Avalux]

5. I probably shouldn't even reply to you for writing such a mess of a post.

How can the information not be inaccurate, but still not true?

If you look strictly at national debt, of course the US was in debt under Clinton. But if you look at the debt-to-GDP ratio:



Are you just in a bad mood and feel like bashing Obama and Clinton?

[originalpckelly]

7. Sweetie, if I take out debt, that is not income.

It's OK that you don't understand, but that's the problem here.

The Social Security trust fund has been robbed year after year for its surpluses. Actually, there are two trust funds, one for old age and survivors and the other is for disability.

What they did is shift the debt from marketable debt, the kind you have to sell and have to pay interest on, to one where it's a loan from Social Security.

This is also how Bush tried to make his tax cuts seems less dangerous.

[Avalux]

11. What pisses me off so much is some people's need to be condescending.

Your post is all kinds of wrong, with you point buried in it.

[obamanut2012]

13. "Sweetie"

[muriel_volestrangler]

16. The government pays interest on the loans from Social Security too

http://www.ssa.gov/oact/progdata/effectiveRates.html

It's not 'robbed'. It is, as you also say (contradicting yourself) a loan. An interest-bearing loan.

[GeorgeGist]

6. If you believe it, it's not a lie.

George Costanza, 1995.

[Rex]

8. After the Pentagon 'lost' a trillion dollars

I stopped worrying so much, it won't do any good.

The govt is there for the govt and by the govt. The big corporations buy the govt and the people. The people are there for themselves because no one is going to look out for them. The govt and corporations look out for each other and work against the people.

Strange world, but here we are.

[originalpckelly]

9. What pisses me off so much about this...

is that social security taxes on regressive on the income they apply to. Meaning the poor and middle class families have to pay more of their money to the taxman that do rich.

And of course, when you realize that this is a tax that the uber wealthy don't even have to pay, then it pisses me off even more.

[Rex]

10. We live in a plutocracy

and whatever form of well regulated capitalism we might have had at one time, is dead today and many want it to be buried and forgotten. I pay a higher percentage in taxes then Mitt Romney does. I bet you do too.

I've replaced my anger and disdain for the system in general with apathy (I have high blood pressure) for the sake of my health.

[originalpckelly]

12. I probably do too.

He's a fucker.

We've really got to wonder about this country when so many of the same people donate to both parties.

It may not be something that we can talk about for fear of reprisal in most places, but it's unfortunately true. When it comes to the money, both parties are simply crooked beyond belief.

What's happening is that the rich people are buying off politicians to make the laws work for the rich people.

[KoKo]

14. Your post won't be popular here...but, there's truth there. K&R!

[KoKo]

15. I think your post and my reply do conform to the DU SOS...it's a good "TP" to post...

Because it's an issue that's on our minds.. This in NO WAY is that you or I will not vote for Obama ...but, a legitimate question, imho.


I hope you won't be trashed for this post...because so many don't really understand "nuance" on the Net's these days....

[muriel_volestrangler]

17. Federal budget ran a surplus in FY 1999 and 2000, on budget

ie not counting social security revenue or expenditure.

FY1999: total surplus 125,610 million; on budget surplus 1,920 million; off budget surplus 123,690 million
FY2000: total surplus 236,241 million; on budget surplus 86,422 million; off budget surplus 149,819 million

http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/omb/budget/fy2013/assets/hist01z1.xls