Show your manners to pregnant ladies

[The Straight Story]

AT EIGHT months pregnant with my second child, it's not hard for me to feel like the elephant in the room.

But the ability of a packed peak-hour Sydney train to ignore my supersize existence leaves me gobsmacked.

...
Closer to home, even commuters in the laid-back Apple Isle can't seem to contain their anger at the suggestion they should let a pregnant woman take a load off her swollen feet. A spokeswoman for Tasmania's Rail, Tram and Bus Union said that last year a Hobart bus driver asked someone to offer their seat to the woman in question. Instead of doing the polite thing and standing up, someone called out:

"She chose to be pregnant."
...

The organisation is about to celebrate its second annual International Be A Gentleman Day on February 22.
"This is a day for all (men and women) to reacquaint themselves with going about their day constantly displaying 'gentlemanly' conduct," the group proclaims on its Facebook page.

"This is a day to hold the door open for the next person, give up your seat for someone who needs it more ... look around and make the world a better place one gentlemanly action at a time."

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/lifestyle/show-your-manners-to-pregnant-ladies/story-e6frf00i-1226240242646

[MattBaggins]

1. Why was she on a bus

Shouldn't she have been home in the kitchen making her man a pie or something? Maybe she was out of flour.

[liberal N proud]

3. And barefoot too

[Whisp]

35. well my question is why did she spread her legs in the first place!

let her live with the consequences.

yah, need the for the impaired around here

[Devil_Fish]

131. .

[WingDinger]

2. Shouldnt they inquire if the father is married to her? That she isnt on some form of gov. assist?

Pee in a cup first? Promise to home school? Intend to baptize?

[snooper2]

11. If you had read it the author of the story was writing from personnel experience..

So you can ask her

She's in Sydney

[rawtribe]

4. Maybe they read this blog

http://mamaclimbs.com/

As most of my readers have already seen on Facebook by now, it happened! I managed to “send” my 5.12a benchmark climb, “Flat Earth” on Sunday. I’m officially 32 weeks pregnant and 20 pounds heavier than my usual 100 pounds.

[Lance_Boyle]

5. Entitlement mentality.

Stand on your own two feet so we can hear you roar like a feminist.

[obamanut2012]

105. This has to do with empathy, not feminism

[MineralMan]

6. You may be sure that you will have a seat if I am

sitting on that bus or train if you are:

Visibly pregnant
Apparently ill in some way
Older than I am (I'm 66)
Have a physical disability
Carrying an infant
Appear to be uncomfortable standing

Every time.

[TBF]

31. Agree - and I am a woman

when I was young I lived in the city and would make a point of standing on the subway (wash dc trains are a bit different in style than NYs - more seats), especially if anyone else needed the seat more. With lots of young commuters it wasn't much of a problem - it was easy to tell who was pregnant, grandparents visiting the capital city etc... It's just the polite thing to do.

This would be a better country if everyone were taught to be courteous instead of being so cut-throat and out for themselves at every turn.

[xmas74]

78. Same here

and I'm a woman of childbearing age.

It's just polite to do so.

[badgerpup]

103. I deal with chronic pain...

...so I know the look of someone else in the same situation.

A woman was with her husband checking in at the hospital for walk-in care...he was the patient, so he was sitting and she was OBVIOUSLY in pain, leaning on his chair, changing her position, shifting her weight...

I got up and went and got her a chair so she could sit down too...
The look on her face as she thanked me...I just told her "I recognize the stance".

Just mildly surprised that the intake person did not A.) recognize she was in distress and B.) DO SOMETHING about it...like get a chair for her.

[xmas74]

125. The little things are what keep us civilized.

When we quit looking out for each other in small, simple ways is when we should start to worry about our society as a whole. Civility and common courtesy cross all socioeconomic lines, it cuts through all political affiliations. It doesn't cost anything to hold open the door for the person behind you, to offer your chair if able.

I can remember being quite visibly pregnant and needing a blood draw for a test. I had to go to the local hospital for the lab, since the doctor's office was part of the hospital grounds. There were only six chairs available at the lab and all six were filled with a group of teens waiting for their friend. They were laughing, being a bit obnoxious, hopping around. Not a single one offered me a chair. One even called me a "fat ass". (I was nearly 8 months pregnant at the time.) I was bumped into more than once and no one did anything except laugh.

Even the employees at the lab did nothing to quiet them. They didn't offer a chair either when I actually needed one. I was supposed to be on bed rest at the time so standing was a no-no, yet I had to stand for an hour while waiting for my lab.

Good for you for getting her the chair! It took nothing out of your schedule to do so and made someone's day better. I'm sure the thank you made you feel better too.

[woolldog]

124. Ditto for me

except for the "appear to be uncomfortable standing".

[phylny]

134. Nice to hear!

When I worked in Manhattan, I would always give my seat to a pregnant woman or older person. Then I would watch as the other young, able-bodied men and women squirmed. They knew what they should have done, and didn't anway.

[JNelson6563]

135. Same here.

Pregnancy was really hard on my tiny little frame so I will always be aware of the pregnant lady on a bus needing a seat or what-have-you. I surely can't imagine ignoring anyone in some sort of condition (like those you describe).

Julie

[HillWilliam]

147. We were raised to be polite respectful of others

I still get called out for saying "ma'am", "sir", "please", "thank you", "How do you do?" and "I am well, thank you for asking." These aren't just cute "Southernisms", they're the lubricant that keeps the gears of society running smoothly. I can't tell you how many times I've been castigated for holding a door or an elevator for someone with their arms full or with a child. I tell the detractors they'd feel much differently if they were the ones receiving the courtesy.

I remember about the only thing that surprised me when I went to Germany was a sign on the bus reading "Wen's um den sitzplatz geht, das alter sizt, die juegend steht!" (If there's a question about a seat, the older sits, the youngun stands!". My 19-year-old mind wondered how it could be that grown people needed reminding.

My culture shock came when I moved back to the States and took a job up north. It really surprised me how rude a society we are, as much as we like to think otherwise.

[MineralMan]

153. Yes, the very basics of courtesy seem to be forgotten

by many.

[DutchLiberal]

160. ... or just women in general.

Courtesy is a very simple concept. Thanks for your post.

[snooper2]

7. LOL

I want to be a writer so I can write stories about the assholes blocking aisles in the store when I have my daughter in the cart throwing a fit

[The Straight Story]

8. And the same day you write it, someone will write about the asshole with the crying kid in the aisle

[snooper2]

16. "Stupid man, doesn't know how to control his child"

Without knowing she just had 1 reese's peanut butter cup and is not getting any more

[ddeclue]

9. You can't have it both ways.. you can't expect us to give up our seats and then expect us to treat

you as equals also. Pick one and stick with it.

It isn't my baby and you aren't my girlfriend and I choose to treat you as an equal. First come first served on the seats.

This is just another in a series of male bashing threads on DU today and it is getting old.

[The Straight Story]

12. Uhhh, I am not bashing anyone

Not yet anyway, busy fixing lunch.

[snooper2]

17. What you fixing? My wife won't bring me anything for lunch..

Something about not walking the 2 miles to my work because she is barefoot and I won't buy her any shoes

[The Straight Story]

18. Cheeseburger with swiss cheese, green peppers and onions

Sans the bread.

[snooper2]

28. Sounds good, for some reason that makes me want Schlotzsky's

I'll be back in a bit

[left coaster]

15. It has nothing to do with gender politics..

It has everything to do with being kind to those around us who are having a more difficult time, for whatever reason.

Can you get your mind around that?

[a la izquierda]

20. Men in Mexico sure as heck can. I like your post.

I can't tell you how many times I've seen young/old men offering their train/bus seats to women of all ages, sizes, degrees of pregnancy (or not). And young teenage girls will often offer their seats to elderly men, or older women.
It's just a little common courtesy, for gosh sakes.
Thanks for posting. I've been avoiding all sorts of gendered discussions of late. I don't fit in most of them (I'm a woman, but don't get stressed about porn or prostitution).

[ddeclue]

26. Of course it is about gender politics. You are either equal or you are not.

Choose one.

[MattBaggins]

33. what a silly thing to say

If I was sitting and I saw another man with a cast on; letting him have my spot is about courtesy not equality.

[ddeclue]

46. a cast implies something that is an accident. A pregnancy is a choice.

[MattBaggins]

51. It's being a choice is irrelevant

Courtesy is a simple concept really.

[ddeclue]

54. No actually it is totally relevant. You made a decision you live with the consequences.

I shouldn't have to. I didn't have the fun. Why should I be the one who is inconvenienced by it?

[MattBaggins]

60. Irrelevant

If courtesy is an inconvenience for you you have my deepest sympathy. Are you sure that DU is the place for you? Helping out others and giving of one self is at least to me, a core Democratic Principle. I can not fathom calling myself a liberal and denying my seat to a pregnant woman or someone who needed to sit.

You really should get some help for that seething anger you seem to harbor. You could be developing heart disease from it.

[ddeclue]

67. Yes DU IS the right place for me.. Perhaps it is not for you if you believe women are fragile and

need to be treated differently than men.

[NeedleCast]

146. This is potentially the dumbest argument I've seen on DU

So you've argued that you'd give up your seat to a person in a cast because they are hurt, but would not do so to a visibly pregnant woman because she's made a choice and should live with it.

You're making enough assumptions here to really put the ass in assumption.

If the guy in the cast got hurt in an off-road biking accident, isn't he guilty of making a choice that could get him hurt?

You're trying to make this a gender issue and it's not. Its a matter of having empathy for your fellow human.

[AngryAmish]

152. Pregnancy is not a disease

[Wind Dancer]

167. Oh brother!

Are you for real?

[likesmountains 52]

119. You do not have a clue..

I feel sorry for you and your utter lack of civility.

[Quantess]

138. Have you ever had a broken limb? (I doubt it, if you're this obtuse)

Okay, how do you feel about people who break a limb while skiing, snowboarding, or other recreation? Would you hold a door open for that person?

[uppityperson]

53. Make that an elderly person who is unsteady on their feet. I guess being elderly is a choice also?

Being elderly isn't an accident.

[ddeclue]

55. being elderly is not being pregnant. One has a choice in being pregnant. One does not in getting

old.

[uppityperson]

58. If you were sitting and saw an elderly woman unsteady on her feet, would you let her have

your seat?

[MattBaggins]

62. Not if she was pregnant

She would need to be taught a lesson about bad choices if that were the case.

[uppityperson]

66. re read and deleted previous comment. Too funny.

[Klukie]

61. Are you for real?

If so...I think you need to do some soul searching.

[ddeclue]

68. no I don't but perhaps you ought to.

[obamanut2012]

107. Yeah, it implies they got drunk and jumped off a roof

You have no idea.

And, if you think being pregnant is always a choice, you need to Google about contraception-failure rates.

[stevenleser]

36. Anyone should have offered up their seat. Men, women, etc.

I realize the bottom of the OP has an unfortunate additional reference to being 'gentlemanly', but that isnt really the point of the OP or article.

I've been on both sides of this. I will usually give up my seat on the subway to anyone looking like they are having a hard time. But if I am not feeling well myself, I wont give up my seat.

True story, I had just ran my first 10K as a young teen and was sitting in a NYC bus, feeling like I was going to die. An elderly lady entered and shortly thereafter another elderly woman attempted to upbraid me and said "Hey fella, why dont you give the lady your seat". To which I replied, "I ordinarily would, but as I just ran a mini marathon and am in some distress, I am currently more preoccupied with whether or not I need to go to the hospital."

All I received back in response was raised eyebrows and silence.

[ddeclue]

47. of course it is.. this is one in a series of man bashing threads running around on DU today

and frankly I am sick of it.

[Klukie]

63. Are you on crack?

The author specifically calls out women in the article. If you are viewing it as a man bashing thread, it is only because you CHOOSE to do so.

[Dorian Gray]

113. Sensitive

aren't we?

[liberalhistorian]

116. Oh, boo-hoo. Deal with it, 'cause

first of all, there's no "man bashing" going on here (which you would note if you actually read the damned article where women are called out as well), and DU women deal with a ton of sexist threads with some real doozies in them every single fucking day here. There's even a particular poster, who's appeared early on this thread, who makes no bones of his hatred for women and his contention that child support is "male enslavement", no matter the circumstances. Like women get pregnant all on their own and only they should be responsible for taking care of their children.

We women deal with this shit all the time, every single fucking day of life on this planet, including here on DU. So if you want to express some poutrage over a faux sexist thread, go ahead, but quit with the martyr act.

[DutchLiberal]

161. I haven't seen sexist threads on DU. But man-bashing threads? Dozens!

Especially the last month, lots of man-bashing threads have turned up.

But this thread is not about man-bashing, that's true.

[smirkymonkey]

38. That's absolutely ridiculous.

I am a woman and I would give up my seat for anyone - man or woman - who was obviously having more difficulty standing than I would. That includes pregnant women, the elderly, the ill or physically impaired, anyone holding a child, etc.

You obviously either have no compassion or you just hate women.

[ddeclue]

44. oh that's SO lame.. throwing out the "hate" card... I'm just taking you at your word about being

liberated.

[liberalhistorian]

117. I would, too.

I have no problem helping or giving up a seat for anyone who looks like they might need it, regardless of the gender or reason. It's called courtesy, compassion and simple human decency. I don't understand the "screw 'em, it's their choice" mentality.

[Quantess]

137. Same here! I hold doors open for people, men women, it doesn't matter. It's just considerate.

That's what it's about. If I have a million things in my shopping cart I let people go ahead of me if they have only a few items. But I'm surprised when the favor is returned.

People are often inconsiderate. Males are certainly no more considerate to others than females are, from what I have noticed. The gender thing is irrelevant.

Wait till that guy upthread has a broken leg, and boards a crowded bus. I dunno, maybe when we ask him how he broke his leg, if he answers "skiing", then he don't offer him your seat! Skiing is not a legitimate reason to have strangers be nice to you.

[dana_b]

42. no - it's about swollen ankles,

a sore back and an extra 10 - 45 pounds that the person has to carry around.

Oh - and compassion for another human being - regardless of gender. And yes, I have given my seat up to a man before.

[ddeclue]

45. They don't HAVE to carry it around. They certainly have a choice.

[dana_b]

59. so what? it's called compassion for a fellow human being

what is so difficult about this concept? if someone, ANYONE is undergoing a physical stress (no matter the cause), others SHOULD be sympathetic and consider their circumstances. That's what people in a civilized society do.

[liberalhistorian]

118. I wouldn't bother with him anymore.

Maybe he is part of the make-no-bones-about-hatred-of-women male contingent on here who have no trouble making their ridiculously hateful views known. Including the poster who appeared earlier in this thread, who's stated unequivocally on other threads that all child support is "male enslavement". Such people are hopeless.

[dana_b]

120. you are right

I don't know about the other fellow but if that person were to confront me about child support I may have to tell him about economic/mental child abuse.

[obamanut2012]

108. How do they have a choice?

[blueamy66]

141. I'm thinking about abortion

or not having sex, which leads to pregnancy

This thread is all kinds of F**ked up.

[obamanut2012]

143. Your answer doesn't even make any sense

Women should never have sex so they don't get pregnant. Uh huh.

[blueamy66]

144. OR....they should use birth control or think about their choices

What don't you understand?

[seabeyond]

149. i have a condom baby, my youngest. my bad. but, i love him so. and i would go into labor standing

before i would take a seat from a poster like dd.

[polly7]

155. I hope your mother was treated compassionately while she was pregnant with you.

I'd have stood up for her even if she felt 100% fine.

[blueamy66]

162. I was adopted.

throws your post to the garbage, huh?

[polly7]

164. What?

I'm not sure why that deserved a hostile reaction. I'd stand up for any pregnant woman. What she chose to do with her baby after giving birth isn't even relevant.

But, whatever ....

[muriel_volestrangler]

165. So you think no woman was pregnant with you?

I have no idea why the existence of adopted people "throws a post to the garbage", when the post said that they hope someone stood up for the mother of the DUer arguing that no-one should stand up for pregnant women.

Can you explain?

[obamanut2012]

104. YOU are the only one making it about this

For some reason.

[badgerpup]

106. You are either courteous or you are not.

What goes around comes around is what I've found...despite being 'supersized' people treat me with courtesy...probably because I've returned the favor already.

Courtesy doesn't hurt...and that one little thing can make all the difference in somebody's day.

[Violet_Crumble]

130. Bullshit. It's not about gender at all...

I'm a woman, and I'd give up my seat on a bus for a pregnant woman, just like I'd give it up for the elderly or anyone who's not as capable to standing up as I am. It's about being a decent human being who isn't so fucking self-absorbed that they think they've got a right to plant their arse on a seat when they could quite easily stand....

I don't know how the bus drivers operate in Tasmania, but where I am I've seen a few refuse to move the bus until kids on the bus have given their seats up for the elderly, infirm, pregnant women etc. One even threatened to put them off the bus if they didn't stand up....

[TBF]

29. This is what I am trying to teach my kids.

We are in Texas which means men will run ahead to open doors for you. I grew up in a northern state and was not accustomed to this when I moved here. I don't see it as a gender issue either, but I'm teaching my son to open doors for everyone because he's strong and it's a "nice thing to do". Also teaching my daughter to let moms/grandmas sit first & offer to help with doors, groceries, etc... If we're walking into daycare and one of the dads is carrying a baby I'll open the door for them - it's just being polite.

A little more kindness in this world does not hurt anyone.

[Jamastiene]

94. Great post.

"Common courtesy" is what we call it in my family. It can brighten someone's day if you simply hold a door open for them. I've seen the expression on a person's face go from dour to a big smile simple because someone held a door open for them. It doesn't hurt to show some common courtesy.

[dana_b]

43. the "whiner in the OP" is a man

and maybe he has done just what you said. Why not ask him directly?

[MattBaggins]

57. Stupidest response in the thread award goes to.....

[Jennicut]

65. I have. At Disney World.

A heavy older man was out of breath and standing and I let him take my seat. I think it is just being nice to people who need a seat.

[The Straight Story]

82. Wait, I am a whiner? In what way?

Do tell what I am whining about (and if you don't like bush/et al - are you a whiner too? What does 'whiner' mean? Please enlighten us)

[chrisa]

92. Female entitlement mentality? Nice MRA talking point...

[obamanut2012]

109. How is this female entitlement?

[yellowcanine]

30. This has nothing to do with equality/gender wars. It has to do with common courtesy.

If someone is not comfortable standing - for whatever reason - and I have a seat and have no difficulty standing - the courteous thing to do is to offer the person my seat.

[MattBaggins]

32. Really?

Really?

I'm flabbergasted.

[csziggy]

34. I'm a woman and I would give up a seat to a pregnant woman or anyone who needs it

Or to borrow Mineral Man's list:
Visibly pregnant
Apparently ill in some way
Older than I am
Have a physical disability
Carrying an infant
Appear to be uncomfortable standing

It has nothing to do with gender and everything to do with being considerate and polite. If I am entering or leaving a building, I hold doors open for other people with no thought as to their gender or need - it is just polite to help other people.

I have to agree with what the Sydney etiquette expert Anna Musson, who runs The Good Manners Company, says:

"If we keep going down this path, everybody is going to be miserable," she says.

"When people do something nice for a stranger they actually benefit by feeling good about themselves.

"It's just a shame more people don't realise that."

(From the OP link)

[ddeclue]

52. hmm.. very "gentlemanly" of you...

[all american girl]

39. Oh my, someone's mommy didn't teach them about being polite...

OK, it's called being polite. You deal with swollen ankles, a baby's head on your badder, and just plain feeling like crap. Being pregnant isn't easy, especially in the last month, or so.

I'll have you know that I've given up my seat for a man, held open a door for a man, and let a man go before me in line...It's called being kind. Oh, by the way, I hope the next time you feel like crap, someone helps you out, you might learn what politeness and kindness is...

[all american girl]

75. I wasn't whining

I wasn't whining...only stating a fact: my ankles did swell, I didn't have an empty bladder for the last 2 1/2 months, and some days I felt like crap...just the facts, nothing more/nothing less. Yes, I chose to have a couple of babies, and you choose to be a jerk...

Here's the deal, my mama taught me to be a good person, just for the sake of being a good person. I like being nice to people, with nothing in return, because it makes me happy...if you want to be a jerk, go ahead, but I have a feeling it might one day bite you in the ass...

[Bodhi BloodWave]

132. look on the bright side

(assuming you are still pregnant that is, if not then congrats on the bundles of joy)

In a few months(or already) you will have one or more bundles of joy enriching your life, he will still be a jerk

[chrisa]

85. You don't get it, do you? It's about manners.

It doesn't matter if someone chooses to have a baby or not.

It's about having the manners to not let a door slam in someone's face, giving up your seat to somebody who is having difficulty, and helping out others who are having a tough time as it is. Why? Because it makes you a better person.

I find your lack of empathy frightening.

[uppityperson]

40. Series! Why help anyone who might need it, why show any courtesy towards anyone?

After all, if the elderly person with a cane wants to be treated as an equal, they should be prepared to be shoved aside by those who are stronger.

Psst, we women also give up seats for those more in need, manners are not just for men but for everyone.

[ddeclue]

48. this thread isn't about women not being "gentlemenly" now is it?

this is just another man bashing thread.

Don't expect courtesy from men if you want to bash them.

[uppityperson]

49. It is about being courteous to others, helping those who might need it. Sorry

your viewpoint about it is so narrow.

[obamanut2012]

110. Yes, it is, if you read the entire articke

[PotatoChip]

70. How is the suggestion of giving up one's seat

to a person who is encumbered in some way "male bashing?" It's just a suggestion, not a law. Nor is anyone advocating for it to be.

However, common courtesy is a nice thing in a civilized society. A heavily pregnant woman does not have to be related for me to offer my seat. Neither does an elderly person, or someone laden with heavy bags, or carrying small children, ect.

No one is saying you must give up your seat, but it would be a nice thing to do. This is not about equality. It's about kindness.

Who knows-- maybe someday you will find yourself old and tired on a crowded bus or train with a bunch of younger people who think just like you. Karma can really suck sometimes.

[xmas74]

79. If it were a gentleman who was obviously sick or in discomfort

would you give up your seat? I have-and I was six months pregnant at the time. No one else wanted to get up. I also always hold the door open whenever someone is behind me, no matter their sex. It's the polite thing to do.

Sometimes all it takes is to make an offer-many won't accept it but will be happy that the offer was extended.

I don't see this as male bashing at all. I believe it was stated that no one-including other women-were willing to give up their seats. It's stating that manners seem to be flying out the window on all sides.

[Arugula Latte]

80. Wow, what a joy of a human being you must be to be around.

The nice and polite and civilized thing to do -- whether you're a man or a woman -- is give up your seat if there is someone who could use it more, be they elderly, pregnant, disabled, or what have you.

[chrisa]

88. Nice view of women you have there. How callous of you.

"Pick one?" Are you serious? Women don't pick (or choose) to have equality. They're entitled to it as human beings.

So, if it's not your baby or girlfriend, screw them? Just let them be miserable so that you can have your comfort? Well, to state the obvious, you are not the center of the universe. People have feelings, and if you aren't at least attempting to consider others' feelings, then you're doing something wrong.

You really think this is male bashing? Telling people to be polite? What a warped point of view.

[gkhouston]

89. So the elderly are "less than equal"? Somebody with a walking cast on their foot?

Someone with heavy grocery bags?

I'm a woman and have given up my seat in all of those cases, as well as to heavily pregnant women or someone carrying a small child. It's a courtesy that was commonly taught to children when I was young.

[CrispyQ]

95. Unfuckingbelievable.

This isn't male bashing - it's common courtesy. Would you give your seat to an elderly gentleman with a cane? A young woman on crutches? A man with a small child? A woman with a baby?

Don't bother to answer - I know what you would do - sit on your self-righteous ass & feel superior, because you got on the bus first. Attitudes like yours are the reason civility is breaking down in our society.

[obamanut2012]

102. Not the first time today

This poster has been seeing lots of male bashing today in TSS's threads. I don't get it.

[ecstatic]

97. It's not about gender, it's about a medical condition

If I saw someone with a cane or something I'd get up, regardless of gender.

[treestar]

99. I don't think men were singled out were they?

Pregnancy creates a physical condition, so the same story could be told of a man on crutches.

By equal we mean intellectually.

[obamanut2012]

101. It is the rigfht thing to do

To give your seat to the elderly, someone on crutches, someone carrying alot of stuff, someone heavily pregnant. It is what people with empathy do.

How the heck is that "male bashing" or having pregnant women demand to be treated like equals?

The OP is MALE, btw.

[Dorian Gray]

110. Dude

I'm a woman and I'd get up for another woman who was pregnant. Or a man who was infirm. Or someone older than me. Or someone who could obviously use the seat. Obviously your self is your #1 priority. Must be lonely living that way.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

123. lol

[nadine_mn]

129. I don't understand "have it both ways" or "male-bashing" from this

All of us had a pregnant mother at some point and what are pregnant women supposed to do? Stay home in confinement until their baby is born so as not to inconvenient any men?

The reality is only women can get pregnant - that is just a fact of life. If men could get pregnant, then as a woman and I saw either a pregnant man or woman who was uncomfortable, I would give up my seat.

There is such a thing as common courtesy among both genders and across all demographics. I hold open the door at the gym for whoever is near me - young, old, male or female. Some of them are fit, young men and some are elderly female - its just courtesy.

[phylny]

136. Seriously?

So, if there's an elderly man on the subway and he's struggling, I should keep my seat to prove a point - that we're equal?

It's not male bashing, it's rude and inconsiderate people bashing.

[LanternWaste]

145. I imagine many people believe that to give up one's seat for someone,

I imagine many people believe that to give up one's seat for someone, that action is then predicated on inequality.

It's not. It''s predicated on manners, it's predicated on benignly assisting those whose need for a thing in a particular situation is greater than ours, regardless of whether it's a man or a woman, and adult or a child we make the small, almost inconsequential sacrifice for.

It's predicated on who we are as a an individual-- one who is ready to help and assist others, or merely one who rationalizes his own convenience over that of others.


That's not having it both ways-- that's simply good manners, respect and tolerance, and putting others before yourself... but I can readily understand why you would perceive it as male-bashing rather than selflessness, it's easier to justify our inaction that way.

[pipi_k]

154. I don't think men were being targeted here

but I do want to ask a question along those lines...

If men treat each other as equals, does that mean a younger man giving up his seat on the bus to a much older man is submitting to some kind of hypocrisy or double standard?

Why does it always have to come down to male or female?

How about just common human courtesy?


OK so I'm a woman and I appreciate when a man holds the door open for me. But I also hold the door open for men.

Because consideration for our fellow humans is a good thing. Or so I was taught...

[DutchLiberal]

158. This man would like to know why you're being a dick...

I don't see the contradiction in treating women as equals *and* being a gentleman.

Holding doors and offering seats don't have anything to do with feminism or male-bashing.

[left coaster]

10. I don't care for the "gentleman" tag for this kind of thoughtful behavior..

I always give up my seat to the elderly, infirmed, or visibly pregnant person.. I always hold the door for the person with a walker, etc., and I do so out of empathy and concern for my fellow humankind.. oh, and I'm a woman.. gender has no bearing on my behavior.. how about calling it a Be Kind To Your Fellow Human Being day, instead?

[Viva_La_Revolution]

21. me too and yes.. but every day

who are these people that choose to be nice only one day a year?

[provis99]

76. no, gentlemanly is directed specifically at men.

[provis99]

127. women are not gentlemen.

Hope that clears it up for you.
They can be ladies, though.

[badgerpup]

114. It's the connotation in the word 'gentleman'.

There's a whole bunch of baggage that goes with that word, including a code of behavior; open doors for people, give up your seat to someone less healthy/encumbered...that sort of thing. It's a pro-active word is what they're getting at...you DO THINGS FOR PEOPLE.

The word 'lady' has its own set of Samsonite...and it's one of being 'done towards'.

I consider myself a "gent"...even though I am female.

My father was a gentleman, and raised me to be one too (although he had trouble with me holding the door for him...was I implying he was elderly or infirm?
"No Dad, I got to the door first, so I hold it for you."

[madmom]

13. I don't understand why this is said to be a

"gentlemanly" thing to do, I do it all the time, so does my daughter.

[kiranon]

25. Agree. I give up my seat for pregnant women, older folks and disabled.

And to anyone who just seems to weary to take it anymore. We will survive if we stick together or we will all sink alone IMHO.

[frazzled]

14. I tried to teach this to my kids when they were young ...

Both my daughter and my son: open a door for an older person (don't just go rushing through before them), offer your seat to a senior or pregnant woman, etc. Though they didn't ride buses or trains much when they were young, unless we were traveling (we didn't live in a public-transit kind of city at the time), I tried to reinforce it when we spent a month in Paris once: I showed them the signs on the Metro in each car, in which seats were reserved for "femmes enceintes" (pregnant women) and "mutilés de guerre" (war wounded).

I'm not sure my efforts paid off that much: our society has simply abandoned these common sense rules of deference to those in need of extra assistance. I felt like I need to remind them all the time, because they didn't even seem to notice.

I was in New York recently and on a crowded bus. I got one of the last available seats and my feet were absolutely killing me. We hadn't gone a few blocks, however, before an elderly lady got on, so I squeezed out and told her she could have my seat. As I moved back to stand with the other (somewhat incredulous) passengers, I just mumbled, "Well, I was just glad there was someone older than me on the bus!"

[The Straight Story]

22. Well, don't ignore me until after the thread is 'over', not sure you would be able to see it then

[uppityperson]

41. +1

hoping you don't mean me but I see some here who would be good to ignore.

[xmas74]

81. I never ignore

but I do believe I've found a couple that warrant serious study and they are on this thread.

I'd bet we're looking at the same people.

[xmas74]

86. Disgusting, disturbing people.

A few here seem to be all about "ME,ME, ME".

Gotta love the comments about how they'll keep sitting since women choose to be pregnant and they need to deal with the consequences.

[xmas74]

91. I still give up my seat in crowded places,

hold open doors, offer to help when needed, etc. I've taught my daughter to do the same. I'm not a spanker but if she didn't do it I'd paint her little back porch deep red. It's just wrong not to help when able.

Comments of this nature really make me feel sad about what our society has become. This isn't a conservative problem or a liberal problem-it's about a bunch of rude, self entitled a-holes who think the world owes them for taking a breath and passing gas on everyone else.

[CrispyQ]

96. ~lol.

Me too.

[obamanut2012]

112. lol

[blueamy66]

142. You don't have better things to do?

Really?

[TBF]

27. After I had my first baby was very eye-opening as well -

you learn first hand what it is like to be disabled when you try to figure out where to cross the street and how to get into buildings with your stroller.

[Jennicut]

56. Going to the grocery store with a 6 month old and a toddler that was one and a half

was very, very eye opening. But most people were helpful and not rude. Men and women both held open doors for me, etc. Now my girls are 6 and 7 and I can't believe how I ever took them anywhere when they were that young. But what are you going to do, stay inside all day? I suppose it was like having twins except one twin was a little bit older.

[TBF]

72. This morning I did my bi-weekly "big" grocery shop

and it sure is easier to do that (1) during the week and (2) without kids or husbands throwing crap in the cart!

I took my daughter out a lot when she was a baby - my husband was a young lawyer, working long hours and often traveling. It isn't so bad with one in a lightweight stroller (you learn where your good crosswalks and elevators are etc...), walk around the mall etc ... but with toddlers (especially more than one) it's a new ball game.

[Nye Bevan]

71. And you learn to love the Americans with Disabilities Act.

Getting around New York with a stroller is much easier than getting around Paris.

[TBF]

73. That's a good point -

I was appreciative for every clear cross walk, ramp into a building etc... you start noticing things you've passed right by in the past and never thought about.

[gkhouston]

93. +1. I never fully appreciated how many barriers there are, even with the ADA,

until I had to wheel a stroller around.

[MerryBlooms]

69. Back in the 'olden' days, it used to be called 'common courtesy' or 'civility'

I really don't see what the big deal is, or why pregnant women were singled out in this article. If you're capable of extending a tiny bit of courtesy/comfort/aid to someone, why not? Maybe people let their egos or personal demons guide their actions too often these days? Anyway, if you see someone you could help, ie- old guy in the grocery parking lot struggling to get his groceries in his car/ help him; very pregnant woman with swollen ankles/ offer your seat; elderly couple having trouble finding their way at the airport/ point them in the right direction. Seriously people, this doesn't have to be a war of strong-headed wills or ego driven.

[AtomicKitten]

74. The concept of common courtesy should be passed on from generation to generation.

The first step is being aware of those around you. Too often in this rough and tumble world people are oblivious to the plight of others. I am proud when I see my son practicing common courtesy such as opening doors for people (old, infirm, disabled), and know I've done my job.

[Sparkly]

90. Been there!! I agree.

I was living in NYC when pregnant, and by 7 months, taking the bus, subway or Amtrak was literally a pain when I had to stand. Worse, men would STARE at me, like GLARING!! I don't know what that was about!! Almost always, it was a woman who offered her seat to me, often an older woman. It redeemed my faith whenever a man did it, but mostly they just did that glare.

[Habibi]

98. Well, sure. Because being pregnant on a bus is male-bashing, doncha know.

[treestar]

100. OK maybe she chose to be pregnant

But so did the father - as between she and the father, there was no "choice!"

[downwardly_mobile]

121. Oh, but you forget -- there IS a "choice" --

One can argue perhaps that "between she and the father, there was no 'choice'!" -- to get pregnant. But she has a choice whether to remain so. That's the whole point of "choice" --

[cherokeeprogressive]

115. So February 22 is International Be a Gentleman Day

What day is International Be a Lady Day?

[obamanut2012]

122. Women are expected to be ladies EVERY day

[JVS]

126. What kind of gentlemanly behavior is her family showing by not giving her a ride?

There are a lot more serious problems that she could face at 8 months than not being able to find a seat and she's left to fend for herself

[Lunacee2012]

128. OT I know, but what is up

with all the "every other thread is anti-male" posts?

[redqueen]

133. That's a good question. nt

[Quantess]

139. Th only reasoning is because of the mention "gentlemanly" in the article

which was sort of an unfortunate word choice. "Considerate of others" would be a more accurate description.

[tpsbmam]

140. I'm disabled and I've had similar things happen....I can't count the doors slammed in my face

When walking with a walker. And for the men on the thread thinking it's about male bashing, you're clueless, absolutely clueless. Slamming doors in my face, sitting when I'm left standing for long periods and being generally inconsiderate is a relatively equal gender opportunity activity. Children taught common courtesy stand out these days because around here at least they're in the minority. I've actually had children and teens running around me knock me over a couple of times with no acknowledgement, apology from or assistance from their parents. I've had the same thing happen a couple of times with adults pushing past me, though both times they've at least sheepishly stopped to apologize and help me.

I walk with a walker for short distances and use a wheelchair for longer distances -- believe me, it's a big deal for me when I'm forced to stand, e.g., in a waiting room while others who are able-bodied sit. My legs will and have given out if I have to stand for too long -- it's rare that no one will stand, but it has happened. I have a feeling there are a couple of people on this thread who'd be guilty of that. It takes a special kind of selfishness.

And men here who are so convinced this is only demanded of you, I'm female and my mother drummed it into us. If we were on a bus and didn't stand fast enough when an adult got on the bus without an available seat, we got the evil eye....you ignored that Mom look at your own peril! Back when I was able-bodied it never would have occurred to me to sit when there was someone who needed to sit more than I standing, including pregnant women. Never!!

[distantearlywarning]

148. What a bunch of mean people have come out of the woodwork on DU today!

I am a woman, and as child-free as they come. I do feel that pregnancy is a choice, and I don't necessarily see motherhood as some sacred icon that everyone else in the world should constantly tiptoe around.

That being said...

I ALWAYS give up my seat on the bus to heavily pregnant women (and the elderly, and those with some kind of physical infirmity). It doesn't cost me anything to be kind to people who are having a hard time of it on the bus. I don't consider it to be my job to "punish" my fellow human beings for the choices they made that I don't approve of. Everyone makes choices that someone else doesn't approve of. Everyone makes choices that could potentially get them in trouble or make their life very inconvenient at some point. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. Etc, etc, etc.

Seriously, just be nice. It's not that hard!

[HappyMe]

150. When I was pregnant, I never expected anyone to give up

their seat for me. Once in awhile, somebody would. If not, I just hung on. I kind of thought of it this way: I'm pregnant, not disabled. I always give up a seat for an elderly person. Always. I always give up my seat for a parent with a little kid, or somebody with a cast or crutches. I hold doors open for both men and women.

As far as the 'she chose to be pregnant' bs, it's very much part of the ME, ME, ME attitude that prevails today. All anybody can do is try to offset selfish asshats is to be as kind and considerate as you can.

[pipi_k]

156. The only caution I would advise

with regards to judging people who don't give up their seats is that one often can't tell whether a person has an infirmity or disability that isn't visible.

Otherwise, I think people should try to be as considerate to others as they possibly can...

[DutchLiberal]

157. A man should *always* offer his seat to a woman, pregnant or not...

[seabeyond]

159. if i was preg and got jolted, it could result in harm to baby. so i would probably take an offered

seat more for safety of baby. if i was not preg and got thrown, would merely be a matter of hurting my body.

likely, i would smile a warm smile, and thank you, with a no thanks, but feel good at your offer.

but thinking about your reply, i think if i were preg, whether i need the seat or not, i would feel it is safer for the baby (responsible) taking the seat offered.

i hadnt thought of that perspective until your post.

[truebrit71]

163. What else do you expect in Australia? Charm? Wit? Grace? The ability to play cricket?

Wait, that last one was a little below the belt...sorry

[muriel_volestrangler]

166. Not to mention against the current form of the teams at the moment

Sunday, 25 December 2011
Test match series
Australia: 333 & 240 (76.3 overs)
India: 282 & 169 (47.5 overs)
Australia beat India by 122 runs

Monday, 2 January 2012
Test match series
Australia: 659-4 (163.0 overs)
India: 191 & 400 (110.5 overs)
Australia beat India by an innings and 68 runs

Friday, 13 January 2012
Test match series
Australia: 369 (76.2 overs)
India: 161 & 171 (63.2 overs)
Australia beat India by an innings and 37 runs

Current:
Australia 1st Innings
604 for 7 (157.0 overs)
India 1st Innings
61 for 2 (21.0 overs)

v.:
Tuesday, 17 January 2012
Test match series
Pakistan: 338 & 15-0 (3.4 overs)
England: 192 & 160 (57.5 overs)
Pakistan beat England by 10 wickets

Current:
Pakistan 1st Innings
256 for 7 (94.0 overs)

[truebrit71]

168. They are playing the same Indian team that England destroyed 4-0 to take the number one ranking...

...plus England have won back-to-back Ashes...so I'll bask in that glory for a while if you don't mind...

[Swede]

169. Kick

This is my oldest bookmarked thread.