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demwing

(16,916 posts)
Wed Oct 3, 2012, 11:08 PM Oct 2012

Let's be freaking honest, damn it

Romney did better than we expected, Obama could have been better - and THAT'S ALL.

Obama didn't get his ass kicked.
Romney didn't hit a home run.
Obama got off a few great sound-bites.
Romney let loose a few huge farts (do away with PBS, not to mention all the damned LIES)
This was not a game changer. Romney didn't just make Christie a prophet.
Most of all, Obama made no heinous gaffes.

Let me repeat that -

Obama made no heinous gaffes. Again, Obama made no heinous gaffes.

Romney had two goals: 1) Show himself able to discuss policy. 2)Provoke Obama to lose his cool.

Romney only hit 50% of his goal, and only superficially, because to keep up, Mitt Romney had to lie.

There will be no embarrassing Obama sound bite on the news for the next week. Romney will get a bounce (as Nate Silver said he would) but the fact checkers will eat away at any gains he makes till they're all gone...

This was not a game changer. Not even close.

141 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Let's be freaking honest, damn it (Original Post) demwing Oct 2012 OP
Thanks. Wise words. nt Chorophyll Oct 2012 #1
finally . . . the voice of reason! fleur-de-lisa Oct 2012 #2
My gosh, I think you gave the best summing up of the night WI_DEM Oct 2012 #3
The voice of reason.... snacker Oct 2012 #4
absolutely - to make Bid Ed happy - Obama would've had to alienate voters he needs Coexist Oct 2012 #5
Eh. I think he could have kicked Romney's ass more. randome Oct 2012 #13
I don't feel good Mojorabbit Oct 2012 #136
Must Realize that the Incumbent Always has a first debate disadvantage Xyzse Oct 2012 #6
Well said. VenusRising Oct 2012 #7
This is the first post I've read on DU about the debate... TroglodyteScholar Oct 2012 #8
A big K&R for reason!! n/t beac Oct 2012 #9
That was the best debate I've ever seen from Romney. And Obama's worst ever LittleBlue Oct 2012 #10
I want to ad this - be your own political tire kicker demwing Oct 2012 #11
But as many football fans know well jimlup Oct 2012 #12
The lasting impressions marions ghost Oct 2012 #14
I didn't watch the debate to hear the President pontificate. russspeakeasy Oct 2012 #15
Nicely stated. n/t gkhouston Oct 2012 #16
But whatever Romney gained, is going to start falling apart as pundits rip him to bits Baitball Blogger Oct 2012 #17
that sounds about right fishwax Oct 2012 #18
Well said awake Oct 2012 #19
Yep. It's hard to counter the Gish Gallop. backscatter712 Oct 2012 #20
Thanks for introducing me to the Gish Gallop NBachers Oct 2012 #54
Problem is that Obama seemed .. Vietnameravet Oct 2012 #21
oh I couldn't disagree more demwing Oct 2012 #23
Did you read the post to which you responded? Doctor_J Oct 2012 #84
Thank you for pointing that out. Myrina Oct 2012 #86
Hanging his head? jackbenimble Oct 2012 #102
Thanks for pointing that out :) demwing Oct 2012 #109
Yes I read it, all the way to the end demwing Oct 2012 #101
Such as here: demwing Oct 2012 #99
A game changer? Indpndnt Oct 2012 #42
THANK YOU. Agree 100%. klook Oct 2012 #123
Agreed! Mitt was haried, panicky, crude, rude and socially unacceptable last night rustydog Oct 2012 #129
I agree... whathehell Oct 2012 #77
Exactly....nailed it. zellie Oct 2012 #80
Obama seemed more presidential. badhair77 Oct 2012 #22
Unfortunately SLCLiberal Oct 2012 #68
Do you have a link to that? Blanks Oct 2012 #134
I agree with you completely..nt. Stuart G Oct 2012 #24
After hyperventilating for the last hour, I'm ready to be talked off the ledge. chalky Oct 2012 #25
Now just wait for the Team Obama commercials demwing Oct 2012 #26
That's right---Romney was trying to provoke Angry Black Man, and he failed. msanthrope Oct 2012 #27
oh, you're right, I know... it's just that Obama could have won renate Oct 2012 #28
exactly mrs_p Oct 2012 #29
However Mellow56 Oct 2012 #30
You're right about Fox viewers demwing Oct 2012 #32
Thanks for putting that image in my head. Indpndnt Oct 2012 #43
confident and in control? BarackTheVote Oct 2012 #75
Romney did mess up big time. Lady Freedom Returns Oct 2012 #31
Please Julien Sorel Oct 2012 #33
Right! Indpndnt Oct 2012 #48
Yes. let's look. Julien Sorel Oct 2012 #70
If all you're out to do is win one debate, you're missing the point, as well. Indpndnt Oct 2012 #72
not energetic and motivated to begin with DonCoquixote Oct 2012 #79
Funny Mellow56 Oct 2012 #34
The Fire Mellow56 Oct 2012 #35
I agree , I think our expectations were so high that although Obama did well he didn't do as well as Demonaut Oct 2012 #36
Mitt looked like an angry, condescending old white man. He made my skin crawl. LittlestStar Oct 2012 #37
I finally had to turn it off---his "performance" sickened me young_at_heart Oct 2012 #38
Looks cunning Mellow56 Oct 2012 #39
Some people Mellow56 Oct 2012 #40
I didn't watch the debates.... lexw Oct 2012 #41
I dare everyone to watch it again on c-span defacto7 Oct 2012 #44
Agreed, it was a bad night for Obama but not even close to a game changer Bjorn Against Oct 2012 #45
Go back, not so far back....... suston96 Oct 2012 #46
it might have moved one state NC, but I doubt that. grantcart Oct 2012 #47
i agree but... Mothdust Oct 2012 #49
Romney's biggest weakness is likeability bhikkhu Oct 2012 #50
Agree. hay rick Oct 2012 #62
You must live in a blue state. Jakes Progress Oct 2012 #51
I live in Michigan DissidentVoice Oct 2012 #83
I look forward to round two. AND three. SleeplessinSoCal Oct 2012 #52
Unfortunately ...... Obama did lose. flying-skeleton Oct 2012 #53
Debate Report Card flying-skeleton Oct 2012 #55
Chris Matthews - I have never agreed with you more than tonight !! flying-skeleton Oct 2012 #56
Why Mr. President Why ???? flying-skeleton Oct 2012 #57
Romney LIED repeatedly and still won the debate. Go figure !! flying-skeleton Oct 2012 #58
yeah in what world is the winner brightertomorrow Oct 2012 #73
It is in the world where... Springslips Oct 2012 #94
Mr. President, Please FIRE your entire Debating Advisory Crew and hire the folks at MSNBC immediate flying-skeleton Oct 2012 #59
I agree with your assessment BainsBane Oct 2012 #60
Report Card II flying-skeleton Oct 2012 #61
Anyway you look at it .... flying-skeleton Oct 2012 #63
OMG - My worst fears came true. Obama played safe. Bad choice. flying-skeleton Oct 2012 #64
As bad as Obama was ............ does it change my vote? Heck No ...... BUT .... flying-skeleton Oct 2012 #65
Bottom Line: flying-skeleton Oct 2012 #66
Mr OBama look too tired mshasta Oct 2012 #67
We know Romney mstinamotorcity2 Oct 2012 #69
If I was a Wall Street banker Meandering1 Oct 2012 #71
This was not a game changer because it is not a freakin' game. ancianita Oct 2012 #74
Was Obama REALLY so bad KinMd Oct 2012 #76
pretty much the subject of my OP demwing Oct 2012 #78
And the take away... Javaman Oct 2012 #81
President Obama was too nice DissidentVoice Oct 2012 #82
Romney had one other big goal that he didn't meet gollygee Oct 2012 #85
Hmmm...think I disagree demwing Oct 2012 #87
I've seen on the news regularly that his campaign was trying to "humanize" him gollygee Oct 2012 #88
lol, that's why candidates have advisors right? demwing Oct 2012 #93
Obama has got to get tough sevenseas Oct 2012 #89
Good points. bigwillq Oct 2012 #90
People are falling for MSM manipulation. Odin2005 Oct 2012 #91
Romney in the first Presidential debate: porphyrian Oct 2012 #92
Not a Game Changer OLDMDDEM Oct 2012 #95
I'm questioning whether I watched the same debate as others? nachosgrande Oct 2012 #96
Yes, Rmoney won the debate, but he didn't Don Draper Oct 2012 #97
Ryan-Biden debate Mayflower1 Oct 2012 #103
"Biden is pretty prone to gaffs" demwing Oct 2012 #107
Also, Biden is substantially more likable. Chan790 Oct 2012 #112
Romney said Obama was a liar marlakay Oct 2012 #98
Only the first round. jackbenimble Oct 2012 #100
Rob-me was on steroids or adderal or something. Have you ever seen Nitwitt like that before? He lies judesedit Oct 2012 #104
K & R !!! WillyT Oct 2012 #105
As soon as I saw Romney's eyes, I knew he was on something. He was actually trying to keep them smal judesedit Oct 2012 #106
Obama looked distracted and bored. spiderpig Oct 2012 #108
Assuming we know what "game" he was playing demwing Oct 2012 #111
I hope you're right. spiderpig Oct 2012 #116
Romney reminded me of the stereotypical car salesman demwing Oct 2012 #117
"Obama got off a few great sound-bites." I missed them. Could you give an example? WinkyDink Oct 2012 #110
Sure, but I'm not going to be a great quote hound demwing Oct 2012 #113
Only half right I'm afraid. FBaggins Oct 2012 #114
I'd agree, if Romenty were ahead demwing Oct 2012 #119
That isn't how it works. FBaggins Oct 2012 #122
I think you're wrong demwing Oct 2012 #124
I agree. nm rhett o rick Oct 2012 #115
Romney debate bounce fades fast. The stench of his lies endures & irritates the nostrils of voters. Bernardo de La Paz Oct 2012 #118
EXACTLY. Intrade has regained much of what was lost demwing Oct 2012 #120
Thank you! Perfect imagery! Indpndnt Oct 2012 #121
Good post, all good points Canuckistanian Oct 2012 #125
Ah, sanity. I completely agree. JaneyVee Oct 2012 #126
Rope-a-Dope danclinger1000 Oct 2012 #127
Agree. tnvoter Oct 2012 #128
There were low expectations for Romney to begin with Harry Monroe Oct 2012 #130
This is a good non-ridiculous analysis. D23MIURG23 Oct 2012 #131
catchphrase: "He's out of touch" Peace Yogi Oct 2012 #132
I didn't think Romney did well AT ALL LittleGirl Oct 2012 #133
Nobody remembers the first debate after the last debate. JohnnyRingo Oct 2012 #135
Sorry, but LynnTTT Oct 2012 #137
So true kimbutgar Oct 2012 #138
Calling MSNBC!! scgrad96 Oct 2012 #139
There is no talk on any of the news humbled_opinion Oct 2012 #140
While I haven't read through the thread ... 1StrongBlackMan Oct 2012 #141
 

randome

(34,845 posts)
13. Eh. I think he could have kicked Romney's ass more.
Wed Oct 3, 2012, 11:23 PM
Oct 2012

But I agree with the OP. This debate was not a game-changer for anyone. Overall, a waste of everyone's time.

Mojorabbit

(16,020 posts)
136. I don't feel good
Thu Oct 4, 2012, 09:37 PM
Oct 2012

The polls tightened here in Fl just before the debate. My local paper had nothing about Romney lying only about Romney winning the debate. Local news tonight the same. Nothing on Romney lying. I hope the next one is better and that people have not made up their mind with only last night's performance. I was yelling at the tv whenever Romney told a lie and could not believe he was not called on it. Really, it was not good. The republicans doubled down today in phone calls also. They have called my number 6 times today to invite me to a victory rally with Mike Huckabee coming up. I told one nice lady she had called the wrong household if she was looking for Republicans. Everyday I get mail fliers slamming Obama. We really need to step it up here in Fl. I am really nervous.

Xyzse

(8,217 posts)
6. Must Realize that the Incumbent Always has a first debate disadvantage
Wed Oct 3, 2012, 11:12 PM
Oct 2012

The challenger can say whatever they want, while the incumbent has to run on their record.

Still, the moderator should have kept with things better, he got pummeled by Romney who didn't care about propriety.

TroglodyteScholar

(5,477 posts)
8. This is the first post I've read on DU about the debate...
Wed Oct 3, 2012, 11:14 PM
Oct 2012

...and I basically agree with your assessment. I don't think either of them really changed any voters' minds one way or the other.

That said, if it wasn't going to be a home run for Obama, the next best thing would be that it wasn't a home run for either candidate. No game changer means Obama's still in a good position going forward.

 

LittleBlue

(10,362 posts)
10. That was the best debate I've ever seen from Romney. And Obama's worst ever
Wed Oct 3, 2012, 11:17 PM
Oct 2012

And I saw all of their debates in the primaries.

 

demwing

(16,916 posts)
11. I want to ad this - be your own political tire kicker
Wed Oct 3, 2012, 11:19 PM
Oct 2012

get the truth out to everyone - Mitt Romney can sure sell the hell out of a used car, but your friends and family better check under the hood.

There's major parts missing from the Romneymobile. Don't sign any fucking papers with this guy.



jimlup

(7,968 posts)
12. But as many football fans know well
Wed Oct 3, 2012, 11:21 PM
Oct 2012

the best way to loss an already won game is to play the "prevent" too early...

marions ghost

(19,841 posts)
14. The lasting impressions
Wed Oct 3, 2012, 11:23 PM
Oct 2012

Romney foaming at the mouth, lying, bloviating

Obama not stellar at kicking his ass, but sane and truthful

Not a game changer--agreed.

russspeakeasy

(6,539 posts)
15. I didn't watch the debate to hear the President pontificate.
Wed Oct 3, 2012, 11:23 PM
Oct 2012

Where was the 47 % reference ? Where was the ambulance and emergency room reference for the uninsured..

What about the cayman islands accounts ?

Count me as disappointed
How about the $700 billion medicare cut accusation..

It is said that 50 million people were watching; get your game on Sir !

Where was the comment on republican obstruction ?

Where was the confrontation ?????

Baitball Blogger

(46,753 posts)
17. But whatever Romney gained, is going to start falling apart as pundits rip him to bits
Wed Oct 3, 2012, 11:24 PM
Oct 2012

in the coming days and weeks.

awake

(3,226 posts)
19. Well said
Wed Oct 3, 2012, 11:26 PM
Oct 2012

Obama gave them no sound bites to use but we can use the "I will kill big bird" Mitt gave about kill funding for PBS

backscatter712

(26,355 posts)
20. Yep. It's hard to counter the Gish Gallop.
Wed Oct 3, 2012, 11:29 PM
Oct 2012
http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Gish_Gallop

Mitt's tactics was to go super-aggressive, with an amazingly prolific spew of bullshit, and attack in such a way that Obama could not refute his lies effectively. Going defensive and rebutting each lie is the way to end up looking like a weak wonk.

Sounds like Obama's strategy is to not lose his cool, not play rMoney's game of trying to refute and getting mired by the Gish Gallop, and spend the next few weeks fact-checking and methodically chewing him to pieces.

Stay tuned, folks! I predict a lot of rebuttals by Obama and his surrogates, a lot of replaying of rMoney's insufferable creamsmirk, a systematic deconstruction of the bullshit train, and a huge pile of attack ads designed to portray rMoney as the lying sack of shit he is.

NBachers

(17,133 posts)
54. Thanks for introducing me to the Gish Gallop
Thu Oct 4, 2012, 01:49 AM
Oct 2012

"spewing out an unceasing blizzard of baloney"

Yup, that's our Mitt

 

Vietnameravet

(1,085 posts)
21. Problem is that Obama seemed ..
Wed Oct 3, 2012, 11:29 PM
Oct 2012

defensive..like he had no fire and conviction..Romney seemed like the passionate one..Obama kept looking down..like he was beaten...and really failed to take the fight to Romney...

This was a game changer for a few..and that is all it takes..

 

demwing

(16,916 posts)
23. oh I couldn't disagree more
Wed Oct 3, 2012, 11:35 PM
Oct 2012

wait till you see the commercials that Team Obama crafts from this. Obama gave them nothing, Mitt wants to kill Big Bird, admits that your heart is where you keep your money (I can't fucking believe we got him to say that!), and LIED too many times to count.

All Obama had to do was not let Romney provoke him. He succeeded.

Now watch the campaign go to work...

 

Doctor_J

(36,392 posts)
84. Did you read the post to which you responded?
Thu Oct 4, 2012, 11:12 AM
Oct 2012
wait till you see the commercials that Team Obama crafts from this


This doesn't refute the previous post. The president looked confused, defensive, unprepared. Commercials that few will see won't change that.


"Watch the campaign go to work"


You think he can flub all the debates like last night have have them spun away by the ads? Please get real.

Myrina

(12,296 posts)
86. Thank you for pointing that out.
Thu Oct 4, 2012, 11:25 AM
Oct 2012

Some people can't see the forest for the trees.

As Eliot Spitzer said (quoting one of his daughters) ... "Obama looked like a tired puppy dog".

You're the PRESIDENT, dammit! You don't hang your head and deflect engagement from ANYONE.
Imagine a performance like that from a King on "Game of Thrones" .... it would be game over.

jackbenimble

(251 posts)
102. Hanging his head?
Thu Oct 4, 2012, 01:35 PM
Oct 2012

It looked to me like he was studying his notes on his podium. I watched on CNN and the camera angle and close up split screen was kind of odd. I guess if you were only taking things at face value and not seeing the whole picture of what was happening then I could see why some might think he was hanging his head. But to me that says way more about the person who thinks that than the person they're talking about.

 

demwing

(16,916 posts)
101. Yes I read it, all the way to the end
Thu Oct 4, 2012, 01:25 PM
Oct 2012

where the poster claimed the debate was a game changer, and I responded that I couldn't disagree more.

The Team Obama has released three commercials already, each pretty damning. I bet more people see the commercials than saw the actual debate (which I did).

And when did I say Obama could "flub all the debates like last night"? Let me help you, I didn't. You just pulled that comment right out of Myth Romney's ass.

For someone quick to criticize the reading comprehension of others, you seem to have more than your share of similar issues.

Indpndnt

(2,391 posts)
42. A game changer?
Thu Oct 4, 2012, 01:39 AM
Oct 2012

Proposing that the auto industry in Ohio go bankrupt is a game changer.

Planning to eliminate Medicare and SS is a game changer.

Destroying people's lives by having Bain destroy their companies is a game changer.

Dismissing 47% of the country as moochers is a game changer.

Nobody is going to forget any of that simply because Willard was an arrogant jackass in a debate. The commercials that run in swing states of Willard's lies tonight vs. his stump speeches will be devastating. THAT'S a game changer.

klook

(12,163 posts)
123. THANK YOU. Agree 100%.
Thu Oct 4, 2012, 05:23 PM
Oct 2012

Hey, I would've liked the pres. to fight back more, and I believe he will in the other debates.

Rmoney's gun is loaded for foot, too, and he'll start shooting again soon.

rustydog

(9,186 posts)
129. Agreed! Mitt was haried, panicky, crude, rude and socially unacceptable last night
Thu Oct 4, 2012, 06:55 PM
Oct 2012

His record is still out there. I don't see how he changed undecided's minds at all.

whathehell

(29,082 posts)
77. I agree...
Thu Oct 4, 2012, 04:25 AM
Oct 2012

The optics were not good, with the split screen and Obama with his head down. I wanted to scream,

because it often looked as if Romney was lecturing Obama. With Romney looking straight at the president

and the president had his head down -- it often looked to me like a little kid being "told off" as it were.

I wanted to scream: "Put your head up and LOOK at him".

Did you notice that, initially, at least, the camera went OFF Romney when it came time for the Prez to do the talking? -

- no split screen? Later, when the camera STAYED on Romney while Obama was

responding, you saw Romney looking straight AT the president and he looked like he was SMIRKING. I

started suspecting deliberate "subversion" via camera angle, but, of course, Obama didn't have to

keep his head down...I KNOW he was probably taking notes, and was doubtless unaware of the "effect"

it was giving with that damned split screen, and I'm sure his aides told him later.

badhair77

(4,220 posts)
22. Obama seemed more presidential.
Wed Oct 3, 2012, 11:33 PM
Oct 2012

I just hope undecided voters think about that. Picture the hyper, interrupting guy speaking with other world leaders. And he wants us to believe he'll be bipartisan after he was so aggressive and rude tonight?

SLCLiberal

(102 posts)
68. Unfortunately
Thu Oct 4, 2012, 02:09 AM
Oct 2012

the flash polls show that the undecideds as well as likely voters liked what they saw tonight with Romney.

chalky

(3,297 posts)
25. After hyperventilating for the last hour, I'm ready to be talked off the ledge.
Wed Oct 3, 2012, 11:43 PM
Oct 2012

Feeling much better after reading your great points here.

Of course, this also helped in getting in a better frame of mind...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021464454

renate

(13,776 posts)
28. oh, you're right, I know... it's just that Obama could have won
Thu Oct 4, 2012, 12:17 AM
Oct 2012

So many opportunities to label Romney an outright liar, so many opportunities simply left lying there. So it seems like a loss, but you're right. He simply failed to win what should have been a pretty big win. But it's not a loss.

Thanks for being the voice of reason.

Mellow56

(10 posts)
30. However
Thu Oct 4, 2012, 12:36 AM
Oct 2012

Romney did come off confident, in control and for people who only watch Fox news this was a chance to tell them the way it really is making it short and sweet. The President needed to add some fire to the debate and yet still be able to control the debate. We have seen him do that before.

 

demwing

(16,916 posts)
32. You're right about Fox viewers
Thu Oct 4, 2012, 12:41 AM
Oct 2012

but they were never going to vote Obama anyway, so they can go take a flying fuck at a rolling donut.

BarackTheVote

(938 posts)
75. confident and in control?
Thu Oct 4, 2012, 02:50 AM
Oct 2012

What the fuck debate were *you* watching? Romney was spouting off rubbish at 88mph and went back in time to the frikkin' gilded age. The only thing Romney had control over was Jim Lehrer and that by being a complete ass.

Lady Freedom Returns

(14,120 posts)
31. Romney did mess up big time.
Thu Oct 4, 2012, 12:39 AM
Oct 2012

Saying what he said about PBS was a bad move. PBS has been a big game killer in the past.

Julien Sorel

(6,067 posts)
33. Please
Thu Oct 4, 2012, 12:45 AM
Oct 2012

Obama's was the worst debate performance since Bush's "Hard work" disaster in 2004. He was unprepared, unplanned, and uncaring. It's what happens when someone who isn't all that energetic and motivated to begin with is given a big lead: he coasts. He's lucky he can afford it, but if his dismal performance continues, it can affect the downticket. He's just a lousy standard bearer for the party, always has been. He doesn't see himself as a representative of anything but himself; as long as his job is safe he's content. We can't afford his contentment. The good news is, maybe after this he'll realize he can't, either.

Julien Sorel

(6,067 posts)
70. Yes. let's look.
Thu Oct 4, 2012, 02:16 AM
Oct 2012

Not even discussing the shape in which he left the country: widely considered one of the worst presidents in history, lost control of congress, he set the stage for a real resurgence on the part of the progressive movement. Which...

Obama squandered, because, as he demonstrated in this debate, he has no agenda that motivates him. If all you're out to do is win an election, you're missing the point of politics.

Indpndnt

(2,391 posts)
72. If all you're out to do is win one debate, you're missing the point, as well.
Thu Oct 4, 2012, 02:23 AM
Oct 2012

You threw out Dumbya's performance as being a "disaster." I pointed out that he won anyway and then went on to win re-election, even though Kerry won those debates.

What was your point?

DonCoquixote

(13,616 posts)
79. not energetic and motivated to begin with
Thu Oct 4, 2012, 06:15 AM
Oct 2012

Hillary Clinton might tell you otherwise,because after he defeated her in the election,he was wise enough to put her in the SoS job.

Mellow56

(10 posts)
35. The Fire
Thu Oct 4, 2012, 12:54 AM
Oct 2012

lives in VP Biden. I believe he will always take the gloves off. We will see what the next debate brings.

Demonaut

(8,924 posts)
36. I agree , I think our expectations were so high that although Obama did well he didn't do as well as
Thu Oct 4, 2012, 12:57 AM
Oct 2012

we hoped.

I just watched my DVR recording and Mitt lied and tomorrow the fact checking will reveal the truth

LittlestStar

(224 posts)
37. Mitt looked like an angry, condescending old white man. He made my skin crawl.
Thu Oct 4, 2012, 12:58 AM
Oct 2012

I mean he really made me feel sick. Every expression of his was of some self-righteous, angry, belittling, piece of shit. I think the reason it worked is that he was like so many of our fathers.

young_at_heart

(3,771 posts)
38. I finally had to turn it off---his "performance" sickened me
Thu Oct 4, 2012, 01:01 AM
Oct 2012

That smirk of his and his arrogance and his extreme ability to lie are just to much to bear!

Mellow56

(10 posts)
39. Looks cunning
Thu Oct 4, 2012, 01:06 AM
Oct 2012

sly, sneaking, shady, kinda like a wise guy. I can't believe even the Republicans would want a fox guarding the hen house.

Mellow56

(10 posts)
40. Some people
Thu Oct 4, 2012, 01:21 AM
Oct 2012

only under stand tough, agressive language. Fight fire with fire and stop trying to reach out and be so friendly with the Republicans. They sure have gone out of their way to exclude the Democrats and NO attemp to work together with Democrats. The President was too friendly when they shook hands and he continued patting Romney's arm. I had a feeling.

defacto7

(13,485 posts)
44. I dare everyone to watch it again on c-span
Thu Oct 4, 2012, 01:40 AM
Oct 2012

You will be surprised... It's a full frontal view of both candidates and it is a completely different experience.

www.c-span.org/Debates/

Bjorn Against

(12,041 posts)
45. Agreed, it was a bad night for Obama but not even close to a game changer
Thu Oct 4, 2012, 01:41 AM
Oct 2012

Romney won the evening but had to lie and make contradictory statements to do so, that could come back to bite him in the future. In the short term this debate will help Romney but what it does in the long term remains to be seen, it sure does not seem likely to drastically change this race however.

suston96

(4,175 posts)
46. Go back, not so far back.......
Thu Oct 4, 2012, 01:41 AM
Oct 2012

....and check on what happened to the "winners" of past presidential debates.

Mothdust

(133 posts)
49. i agree but...
Thu Oct 4, 2012, 01:43 AM
Oct 2012

At the end of the day, It's not what was or wasn't said or how it was said, but whether anyone believes it. Obama seems and is more honest and Romney seems and is a liar. People hopefully will vote for who they trust, I hope.

bhikkhu

(10,720 posts)
50. Romney's biggest weakness is likeability
Thu Oct 4, 2012, 01:44 AM
Oct 2012

and he did himself no favors whatsoever this evening on that front.

He thinks his biggest weakness is that people don't know how smart or competent he is, but nobody wants the smartest guy in the room running things, if they don't like or trust the guy.

hay rick

(7,633 posts)
62. Agree.
Thu Oct 4, 2012, 01:53 AM
Oct 2012

He came across as a bully. Outside discussion forums, issues tend to evaporate. GWB was a viable candidate because a lot of people thought he was likeable. Romney is the opposite and I expect that will be his downfall.

Jakes Progress

(11,122 posts)
51. You must live in a blue state.
Thu Oct 4, 2012, 01:44 AM
Oct 2012

If you don't think that romney scored big tonight and that Obama lost votes, you don't live in the country with an electorate that put richard nixon and ronnie reagan in the white house and then let bush jr. have 8 years.

There aren't enough bright people in the country. romney's lies are just as good as true to way too many dummies.

We may be heading to a bad time. Obama has got to get savvy. Sure he lied, but that just doesn't matter to most voters. Read the front page of the nyt. They say that romney stretched the truth. Then they say that Obama did too. That's what every news room will be putting out. So people don't care if romney lied, because the media has them convinced that both lied the same.

He has to be called a liar on the spot with the truth told right then. Fact checking today only makes us feel good. Most people don't read that stuff.

Again, Obama was caught off guard and flat-footed because he thought republicans would play nice, that they would do things mostly honest. He still hasn't gotten it.

I agree with Robert Reich's take on this debate: http://robertreich.org

DissidentVoice

(813 posts)
83. I live in Michigan
Thu Oct 4, 2012, 10:24 AM
Oct 2012

However, I grew up in one of the reddest of red states ('08 aside): Indiana.

You're bang-on with what you say about the electorate and about Obama thinking/hoping that Republicans would play nice.

He, of all people, should know that after almost four years of trying to deal with Boehner, McConnell, etc. that they will not.

SleeplessinSoCal

(9,135 posts)
52. I look forward to round two. AND three.
Thu Oct 4, 2012, 01:48 AM
Oct 2012

And I want Obama to make clear several Romney goals. And Ryan goals. The Tea Party Goals. Romney may have stepped away from the Tea Party tonight, but that won't change his economic policy.

As for Obama being to laid back or not fighting hard enough, I'm not going to judge him yet. Too many others in the media are doing that already. I'm going to cheer him on.

flying-skeleton

(698 posts)
53. Unfortunately ...... Obama did lose.
Thu Oct 4, 2012, 01:48 AM
Oct 2012

We have been on a 47% high for so long that the withdrawal forced upon us by the President's lackluster performance today hurts bad, REAL bad !!

flying-skeleton

(698 posts)
55. Debate Report Card
Thu Oct 4, 2012, 01:49 AM
Oct 2012

Romney's report card:
Did what he needed to do which was to attack and and attack again. Well prepared. Came to debate. Defended well using all at his disposal including lying.

Obama's report card:
Look presidential - Not prepared at all - Did not look like he wanted to be there - Almost the worst debate from a incumbent President ever.

Lehrer's report card:
Worst ever !!

flying-skeleton

(698 posts)
56. Chris Matthews - I have never agreed with you more than tonight !!
Thu Oct 4, 2012, 01:50 AM
Oct 2012

That performance was SO disappointing of President Obama to now leave Huffington Post and MSNBC work overtime to re-sell President Obama to America ALL OVER AGAIN !!

flying-skeleton

(698 posts)
57. Why Mr. President Why ????
Thu Oct 4, 2012, 01:51 AM
Oct 2012

We know President Obama is the right choice for America but we do not have a microphone to 60 Million Americans to make the case for President Obama. Obama had that opportunity tonight and he blew it !! Absolutely blew it !!

God helps those who help themselves and tonight Romney certainly helped himself by lying and stretching the truth repeatedly and Obama stood by silently and did NOTHING !!

Why Mr. President Why ????

brightertomorrow

(122 posts)
73. yeah in what world is the winner
Thu Oct 4, 2012, 02:27 AM
Oct 2012

the one who stands up there and brazenly lies and then bullies the moderator. Lies have a good way of catching up with a person and I believe they will. Obama was the only one making sense, telling the truth and looking Presidential. But the press needs to get this election closer so they have something to talk about for the next few weeks so guess they have to make up some lies too and try and make Romney look like he actually won.

Springslips

(533 posts)
94. It is in the world where...
Thu Oct 4, 2012, 12:38 PM
Oct 2012

There are a million low information voters. The Prez did not do enough to call out the lies. I keep hearing "well the President can't do that, refute a list of lies." He doesn't have to do it like that. All he as to do is refute the biggest lie.

When you don't refute lies, or you accept the premise of lies, it looks like you validated the lie as a legit POV, this is what the President did, he let Romney's bullshit seem legit.

Here's how you accept a premise of a lie making it seem legit.

Romney says "A" (a lie)
Obama says "B&quot a talking point)
Romney say "-b, a&quot calling the Prez a liar and then repeating the lie.)
Obama "B"

Any ignorant voter watching this is going to think that both sides have legit points. And since Romney took it to President, and the President didn't take it to Romney, therefor Romney has the stronger positions, policy, and views. Voters will decide on the validity of a position both on what a candidate says and on the feedback of the opponent. When the opponent gives weak feedback, it makes the candidate's statements seem stronger.

I am not sure if most here understand this. Romney won this debate, or I should say the President lost it, since there was many hanging curves he let go over the plate. Good news is that debates are not the end all, and Rmoney still has major problems.

This is the last post I am going to argue about this. Time to move on.

flying-skeleton

(698 posts)
59. Mr. President, Please FIRE your entire Debating Advisory Crew and hire the folks at MSNBC immediate
Thu Oct 4, 2012, 01:52 AM
Oct 2012

This is NOT a joke !!!

flying-skeleton

(698 posts)
61. Report Card II
Thu Oct 4, 2012, 01:53 AM
Oct 2012

Lehrer - Asleep at the helm - Got abused - Did not even know it.
Romney - Attack Attack Attack
Obama - Yawn - Look Presidential - Are U kidding me? And I intend to vote for you !!

flying-skeleton

(698 posts)
63. Anyway you look at it ....
Thu Oct 4, 2012, 01:54 AM
Oct 2012

Anyway you look at it - Obama lost the debate.

Does that make Romney a better candidate?

No. Because we Americans know the truth about Romney.

Just because President Obama did not mention all of Romney's lies does not mean we THE PEOPLE don't know the truth about Romney.

So at the end of the day, Romney is still BAD for America !!!!

flying-skeleton

(698 posts)
65. As bad as Obama was ............ does it change my vote? Heck No ...... BUT ....
Thu Oct 4, 2012, 01:56 AM
Oct 2012

But then my vote was not the one President Obama needed to earn.

It was the undecided votes that were at stake and President Obama did not do himself any favors by not bringing up:

1. Bain
2. 47%
3. Romney's Emergency Room Health Care Plan
4. Romney's Taxes

There are a host of other facts that Obama could have thrown back at Romney's face and he chose not to. WHY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

mshasta

(2,108 posts)
67. Mr OBama look too tired
Thu Oct 4, 2012, 01:58 AM
Oct 2012

All I can said is Mr president you are a bad ass mother fucker! kick he's balls next time ! Kick he's fucking balls !!!! Sorry Mr president .

 

Meandering1

(36 posts)
71. If I was a Wall Street banker
Thu Oct 4, 2012, 02:21 AM
Oct 2012

would have been grateful that Romney didn't totally butcher the debate. Had he done a Palin it would have shook (even more) faith in the international investor's mind relative to those running the good 'ol USA. Had Romney even a snowball's chance in hell to win this election? Would send the Dow and NASDAQ way downwards.

Problem is that I'm almost too used to the inveterate FUCKING LYING going on in all the GOP campaigns. So I was disappointed in the debate. Jim Lehrer being under strict orders not to make Romney look bad.

ancianita

(36,130 posts)
74. This was not a game changer because it is not a freakin' game.
Thu Oct 4, 2012, 02:31 AM
Oct 2012

The player was the player and the adult was the adult.

KinMd

(966 posts)
76. Was Obama REALLY so bad
Thu Oct 4, 2012, 03:16 AM
Oct 2012

or was it just that Romney did much better than we thought, or hoped he would do? There were no huge gaffes, no zingers nad no reason to panic in my opinion.

Javaman

(62,532 posts)
81. And the take away...
Thu Oct 4, 2012, 10:14 AM
Oct 2012

mittens will kill Big Bird.

That's what's trending on Twitter.

and frankly, what I believe is this, over the next week or so, people will begin to realize that mittens was completely full of shit and Obama came across as mostly truthful and stable.

DissidentVoice

(813 posts)
82. President Obama was too nice
Thu Oct 4, 2012, 10:20 AM
Oct 2012

He may have wanted to take the high road and be "statesmanlike," "Presidential," etc.

However, he of all people should know that taking the high road went out of the Republican playbook at least as long ago as Lee Atwater.

That's the problem with Democrats in general...we've been too "nice." Ever since Reagan and the rise of the GOP hard right (with their associated accomplices: Limbaugh, Beck, Norquist, Koch Bros) it's like Democrats have been afraid to throw it back at them (think Mace Windu turning Emperor Palpatine's dark side lightning back against him).

One thing I have to give the Republicans: they're damn disciplined and they march in lock-step. They're not afraid to wheel out the heavy artillery to squash a fly.

Mr President, you need to show some of your skills at playing hardball that you learned in Chicago politics. Democrats have ammunition to use against Romney. USE IT.

 

demwing

(16,916 posts)
87. Hmmm...think I disagree
Thu Oct 4, 2012, 11:31 AM
Oct 2012

I think Romney sees himself as just fine the way he is. Hubris, thy name is Mittens.

gollygee

(22,336 posts)
88. I've seen on the news regularly that his campaign was trying to "humanize" him
Thu Oct 4, 2012, 11:34 AM
Oct 2012

so he might see himself as fine but I don't think the people helping him with his campaign do.

 

demwing

(16,916 posts)
93. lol, that's why candidates have advisors right?
Thu Oct 4, 2012, 12:06 PM
Oct 2012

to tell you the stuff you can't figure out for yourself

sevenseas

(114 posts)
89. Obama has got to get tough
Thu Oct 4, 2012, 11:56 AM
Oct 2012

You made a good point, but "impression" is everything on TV- and Romney was the clear winner, EVEN THOUGH the bastard- in our faces- said he would get rid of regulations for bank and Wall St. ....he was the dominate figure and maintained control.

I am getting angrier by the minute thinking how stupid a lot of Americans are that they will go out and vote for Romney who is going to see to it they have no monetary protection or health care, AND he is itching to start another war.

Obama's people need to tell him he has to get more aggressive next time, and the hell with soundbytes. He has got to make an impression of being in control instead of Romney taking the whole pie and sticking up Obama's ass the way he did.

This is for all the marbles, guys! Not time to play it safe. Not time to be nice.

Also let us Dems not fall into the spin-mode like the Fox pundits, trying to turn something to our advantage when it just ain't so. We are honest and tell it like it is, even though it hurts like hell.

OLDMDDEM

(1,577 posts)
95. Not a Game Changer
Thu Oct 4, 2012, 12:54 PM
Oct 2012

I agree this was not a game changer. Mittens looked like an aggressive (remember the haircutting when he was in school?). He won't be able to do this next time or the time after that. He used up all of his "zingers" mainly because he's an empty suit. There is no substance to his "policies?" and it showed last night. He went against his own tax plan. He went against his own healthcare plan. Of course, what he said were lies, but people believe what these guys say. They want to, and for some, they need to. Obama needs to come out smoking in the next debate. And, so does Biden.

nachosgrande

(66 posts)
96. I'm questioning whether I watched the same debate as others?
Thu Oct 4, 2012, 12:57 PM
Oct 2012

I didn't catch the debate until around 10pm PT last night and I didn't see or watch any of the talking head bullsh*t "post game" analysis. My wife and I basically watched it in a bubble and we turned it off and went to bed directly afterwards. We both believed that Obama "won" the debate, mostly because he's a naturally good debater and has the facts on his side. We thought he did a good job of explaining why Romney's big ideas were firmly rooted in fiction.

Having said that, we both thought Romney did better than expected, only because we had such low expectations for him. We observed that he was attempting to clearly move to the middle and stake out Obama's ground with the moderates. I didn't think it was particularly effective since it made him look insincere and like a flip-flopper.

Bottom line: it was a mostly cordial, ho-hum debate, that's not likely to change anyone's mind.

Of course, the MSM played up Romney as the winner because he didn't spontaneously combust on stage and they do, after all, need a tight race for ratings. But I really really don't understand the outrage on this one coming from DU.

Don Draper

(187 posts)
97. Yes, Rmoney won the debate, but he didn't
Thu Oct 4, 2012, 01:11 PM
Oct 2012

"destroy" Obama.Nate Silver said Rmoney scored the equivalent of a touch down and will likely rise 3 points in the polls; however, that is still not enough for Mittens to even be tied. I'm confident Biden will squash Ryan next week and slow momentum for Rmoney.

With that said, Obama needs to prepare better for the next debates & shut Mittens down (which hopefully shouldn't be a hard task given the gold mine of flaws & problems Rmoney has).

Mayflower1

(100 posts)
103. Ryan-Biden debate
Thu Oct 4, 2012, 01:42 PM
Oct 2012

I'm not as confident as you about that.

I really thought that Obama would cream Romney but I always thought that Ryan was pretty quick on his feet and can ramble a LOT of statistics. Unless Biden knows the statistics to counter Ryan, it could be trouble.

Also, Biden is pretty prone to gaffs.

It's Thursday, right?

 

demwing

(16,916 posts)
107. "Biden is pretty prone to gaffs"
Thu Oct 4, 2012, 02:38 PM
Oct 2012

Not really. Not at all...

Biden doesn't lie, or make factual errors - he just says things that are true, that other politicians might sit on.

Call it a gaffe if you like, I call it honesty, and it's what I love about Joe.

It's also what's going to be trouble for Ryan, he'll look condescending next to Biden, and Joe wont carry that shit.

 

Chan790

(20,176 posts)
112. Also, Biden is substantially more likable.
Thu Oct 4, 2012, 02:44 PM
Oct 2012

Paul Ryan comes across as that handsome smarmy asshole in your HS chem class that you always secretly wondered if you'd get a standing-O from your peers and plaudits from the teacher if you'd gotten up mid-class and punched him in the face.

jackbenimble

(251 posts)
100. Only the first round.
Thu Oct 4, 2012, 01:21 PM
Oct 2012

I think this round was good for information gathering for the Obama team. If he had come off as too forceful he would have turned some people off. Now that the tone has been set I fully expect the next two, and the VP debate to push the edges a little more.

Speaking only for myself, with all the build up of expectations I kind of expected to see Obama come out swinging and romney throwing out a lot of zingers. Neither really happened. But if you look at the second to last time romney got to speak he was all over the place throwing out keywords that didn't really fit the topic. That combined with him looking like a school boy when he would find something to respond to a point Obama made tells me he didn't get to follow his plan. He must have had a list of stuff he was supposed to work in and I doubt he got to do many of them. That's a win in my book.

judesedit

(4,440 posts)
104. Rob-me was on steroids or adderal or something. Have you ever seen Nitwitt like that before? He lies
Thu Oct 4, 2012, 02:01 PM
Oct 2012

to the American people like it's nothing. As usual. And this country will suffer greatly if people actually bought into his bullshit.

judesedit

(4,440 posts)
106. As soon as I saw Romney's eyes, I knew he was on something. He was actually trying to keep them smal
Thu Oct 4, 2012, 02:26 PM
Oct 2012

. And when he started to talk, it just cemented the idea. I can't believe no one's mentioned it. Obama was himself. I'm sure his job as President has kept him up nights lately with all of the turmoil around the world. Rmoney not so much. He's been lounging around, yakking on the phone, eating and drinking well, getting his tan administered, on his yacht more than likely, practicing, practicing, practicing. In my opinion Obama was the more stable, honest, factual, less pompous of the two and the man I want to take us forward in this county. Obama has been fighting FOR the majority of us for the last 4 years. Romney and the GOP in general has been fighting AGAINST us for the last 16 at least. Probably since Reaganomics took hold. Thank you, Obama for not being a lying, narcissistic loud-mouth.

spiderpig

(10,419 posts)
108. Obama looked distracted and bored.
Thu Oct 4, 2012, 02:38 PM
Oct 2012

And I'm an O supporter. I intend to vote for him no matter what.

But he was definitely off his game last night.

spiderpig

(10,419 posts)
116. I hope you're right.
Thu Oct 4, 2012, 03:38 PM
Oct 2012

He's no dummy, and I really hope the rope-a-dope thing is more than a meme.

Did Rmoney come across as shifty, sneaky and snake-like, or what?

 

demwing

(16,916 posts)
117. Romney reminded me of the stereotypical car salesman
Thu Oct 4, 2012, 04:34 PM
Oct 2012

all fast talk, but no substance. The model he's selling is a known clunker, comes with no warranty, and he won't let you look under the hood.

Don't sign any papers with this guy, America. The Republican Party isn't subject to the Lemon Law...

 

demwing

(16,916 posts)
113. Sure, but I'm not going to be a great quote hound
Thu Oct 4, 2012, 02:56 PM
Oct 2012

There was the line about Romney's "big bold plan being "never mind"

Regarding Medicare changes - "If you're 55, you might want to listen up..."

"Is the reason Romney keeps his plans a secret because they're too good?"

"Part of leadership is being able to say no, and Romney hasn't shown he can say no to the extreme elements in his party


Those are some good one, poorly quoted here because my memory sucks.

FBaggins

(26,756 posts)
114. Only half right I'm afraid.
Thu Oct 4, 2012, 03:00 PM
Oct 2012

I agree that there's nothing to panic about. It was a clear loss, but the president has a big cushion. And plenty of material to strike back with.

But Romney didn't need to provoke the president.

His actual goals: 1) Show himself able to handle policy discussions. 2) Convince the public that he isn't dangerous.

The first he obviously passed. The second isn't a one-debate task.

The biggest error in your calculus is the assumption that the default position is reelection and Romney needs to convince people that he's much better than he is. That simply isn't the case. The lousy economy means that the default position for us is a loss. If he didn't know who the challenger was going to be, an impartial observer would assume that the president would have little chance of victory (with current conditions)... but we lucked out and drew Romney.

The President very much needs to keep front and center with the electorate the simple fact that while things haven't gone anywhere near as well as we would like... a switch to Romney can only make things much worse. (The parallel argument is that there are plenty of Democrats who are displeased with the administration and need to be reminded that Romney is not an acceptable price to pay to send that message). And so far he has had great success at this task.

Romney's real "victory" comes if he can convince people not that his policies are the right way to go... but that he isn't racist, isn't out to harm the poor, isn't out to destroy unions, isn't out to end civil rights, isn't in this just for the rich (etc etc etc).

He didn't make much/any progress with that in earlier debates... or in picking Ryan... or at his convention. But last night he made inroads. That is the real danger.

 

demwing

(16,916 posts)
119. I'd agree, if Romenty were ahead
Thu Oct 4, 2012, 04:38 PM
Oct 2012

since he's not, the default position IS reelection.

Romney absolutely had to make Obama less likeable, to attack him on his greatest strength.

Romney failed.

FBaggins

(26,756 posts)
122. That isn't how it works.
Thu Oct 4, 2012, 04:53 PM
Oct 2012

"Default position" isn't "who is ahead in the polls".

As I said... the president has done a good job a defining Romney. We've been on a path to victory for some time now.

But Romney's remaining chance has little to do with defining the president... it has always been about whether or not he can make himself appear acceptable. Because "acceptable" is all it would take to beat an incumbent when the economy is this weak.

It was the same thing with Carter. The right likes to spin BS about Reagan's vision and the public eating up his policies. The reality was that Carter was weak (even when he was well ahead in the polls) and all Reagan had to do was become acceptable in the minds of the electorate.

The good news is that Romney is no Reagan... and the president is unlikely to make the same mistakes that Carter did.

 

demwing

(16,916 posts)
120. EXACTLY. Intrade has regained much of what was lost
Thu Oct 4, 2012, 04:46 PM
Oct 2012

Yesterday, pre-debate, we were at 70%. This morning, Obama had dropped to 64%. As of this writing, Obama is back to 68%+, Romney lost all the gains he made, and is sinking again.

tnvoter

(257 posts)
128. Agree.
Thu Oct 4, 2012, 06:47 PM
Oct 2012

The right-wing base is probably confused because of the lying.

Obama needs to go after the flip-floping.

Harry Monroe

(2,935 posts)
130. There were low expectations for Romney to begin with
Thu Oct 4, 2012, 07:11 PM
Oct 2012

His prep work paid off and he held his own. That's about it. No big win. Dissect the lies and flip flopping and it is all a bunch of nothing. Obama needs to grow some 'nads and come out swinging next time and cut this fucker off at the knees.

D23MIURG23

(2,850 posts)
131. This is a good non-ridiculous analysis.
Thu Oct 4, 2012, 07:25 PM
Oct 2012

Hopefully in the comming debates Obama and Biden will do somewhat better.

Peace Yogi

(1 post)
132. catchphrase: "He's out of touch"
Thu Oct 4, 2012, 08:04 PM
Oct 2012

Democrats need to simplify the message and appeal to the short attention span of the typical American. A tight catchphrase that can easily be hammered into the meaty folds of the brain would help a lot in my opinion.

"Can't afford college? Just get a loan from your parents - He's out of touch."

"He thinks if you can't afford healthcare, just go to the emergency room and you'll get all better - He's out of touch."

"In his own words, he just doesn't care about 47% of us - He's out of touch."

"Governor Romney is a good man, but he's just too out of touch for this job."

LittleGirl

(8,287 posts)
133. I didn't think Romney did well AT ALL
Thu Oct 4, 2012, 08:15 PM
Oct 2012

He looked like a bully and his staring at the President was a bit unnerving. The LIES! All of the Lies!

Obama kept shaking his head and was polite which pissed off many lefties I'm sure - cue Chris Matthews but I think the President did well. He underperformed but I don't care. He didn't lose any voters because of that debate. Not when you stack up the lies against Romney.

JMHO

JohnnyRingo

(18,638 posts)
135. Nobody remembers the first debate after the last debate.
Thu Oct 4, 2012, 09:13 PM
Oct 2012

Nobbody steps up and tells the voters:... Hey! I won the first one, I want my bounce back!

LynnTTT

(362 posts)
137. Sorry, but
Thu Oct 4, 2012, 10:17 PM
Oct 2012

While Romney was talking he was looking at Obama and Obama looked like he wasn't paying attention.
This was not a policy speech, it's a debate. You have to respond and pick up the flaws in the other person's argument.
Obama had a chance to tell 62 million people that no reputable organization believes his tax plan will work, that the GOP Medicare program is a voucher and could just have said in regards to many other plans. "Mitt, you need to give us all some details, because this just doesn't work."
A lie disproved turns into a fact/.

scgrad96

(8 posts)
139. Calling MSNBC!!
Thu Oct 4, 2012, 10:41 PM
Oct 2012

Isn't it funny that the media has hyped this up to be something it wasn't. MSNBC and the likes need to come here for their facts! After all, aren't "we" the ones who are going to vote based on what we saw last night?

humbled_opinion

(4,423 posts)
140. There is no talk on any of the news
Thu Oct 4, 2012, 10:50 PM
Oct 2012

stations about the Romney LIES.... I work with a bunch of teaheads and I asked them today what was with all the lying from Romney... Their take on it was, Romney didn't lie, he just refused to let Obama define him.... I said well Romney is going to raise taxes on the middleclass because how else will he get the Revenue that Simpson Bowles said was part of the equation of handling the debt? Again they told me to listen to Romney he will not raise taxes on anyone in fact he is cutting taxes across the board, he will of course close some loopholes that the rich use to avoid paying their fair share but in the end the lowered rates will create jobs and the jobs will create the tax revenue to the government....

This is what they believe....

 

1StrongBlackMan

(31,849 posts)
141. While I haven't read through the thread ...
Thu Oct 4, 2012, 10:58 PM
Oct 2012

I heard a "news" report (on an a.m. radio station) on the way home from work ... and one "news" report got me to thinking ...

The "news" reporter quoted a gop strategist saying that the debate was an absolute necessary win for romney and that romney's performance spoke volumes to the gop moneymen ... had romney bombed (or did not perform well) the moneymen would have shifted their romoney to other, down-ticket races.

Imagine ... If that's true ... a poor performance leading to gop money going to other races, romney's performance just might have been good enough to help Democrats hold the Senate and take back the House.

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