Those of you who think Obama lost tonight

[CatWoman]

tell me, would you take a rational, calm, truthful man over a rude, lying, hypocritical Thurston Howell wannabe?

[arthritisR_US]

1. Apparently, some would. How pathetic...

[sirbarksalot]

50. Gosh, I think the president just caught about 45 minutes of lies ON TAPE!!!! x

Or were those simply inelegantly stated remarks?

[arthritisR_US]

64. What do you mean? Sorry, but I'm not following what you are saying...

my brain is on the slow side tonight.

[sirbarksalot]

74. Just mean that Romney will have a hard time explaining away his inconsistencies with his flip flops

caught on tape.

[arthritisR_US]

86. Good point, thanks for clarifying. I can

be thick sometimes

[Liberal_Stalwart71]

75. EXACTLY!!!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021464249

[joshcryer]

2. Nah, we wouldn't, but we know that the teabaggers and right wing racists would.

Already the media is spinning it for Romney.

[gkhouston]

36. Oh yeah, the President just lost the teabagger and RW racist crowd.

And I know he was really counting on their support.

[Chorophyll]

37. The teabaggers and right wing racists were never gonna vote for Obama.

So no change there.

[joshcryer]

45. Yeah, but there's also the whole stay at home factor.

If the base is fired up they might bite the bullet and vote for the Morman as opposed to sitting home election day like we did in 2010.

[CakeGrrl]

56. As if the President EVER had them.

[joshcryer]

62. See post #45.

Talking about the potential for riling them up. They're not too enthused about him. But getting up there and lying his ass off and speaking over Obama probably gets them a little riled up.

[Pisces]

3. I am a high information voter, the mass public had no idea what the President was

Talking about. Romney lied his ass off and the public didn't know it!!!!!

[notadmblnd]

8. that's bologny

You so don't know what you are talking about. Rmoney turned on his own party and agreed with Obama on much of what he said, If anything, baggers were betrayed by romney tonight, but I'm betting they're not smart enough to know it.

[CatWoman]

9. there's fact checking posts all over Facebook

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

34. Great stuff!

[Champion Jack]

16. Bull

[Pisces]

78. You can be mad at me, but optics matter. Looking down and letting Romney get

Away with lies. Let Romney look authoritative.

[CitizenPatriot]

84. Yeah, for about 2 hours

fact checkers are already brutalizing him and many voters in focus groups say Romney was rude. He "won" a debate, and lost the thing he needed the most. TRUST.

[Champion Jack]

87. Bingo

[aletier_v]

4. It depends on how much money he offered me and if I thought I'd actually get it. :)

[Metro135]

5. Of course not

But if you haven't been following this election very closely, and don't really know about the history of Romney's lies and distortions, he came off well. And that's disheartening. Obama is just way too nice. He needs to sound more forceful and emphatic.

Why, for instance, did he not respond to Romney's lies about Obamacare cutting hundreds of millions from medicare? If he did I didn't hear it.

[CatWoman]

12. look up

[liberal N proud]

6. Bullying is popular tonight.

[Xyzse]

7. That's not the issue

I agree that Obama stuck with facts better.
However, in regards to delivery, passion and so forth, I would give the edge to Mitt.

He was lying through his teeth however he was able to state his answers more smoothly and comes out forcefully which plays well with many.

To us who are already in a specific camp it doesn't matter, but to those who don't pay as much attention, that is what you have to play with.

I don't know how I feel about it yet, I would give the early edge to Mitt, but I have to wait to see how it plays in the media especially in regards to fact checking.

What is also in play is if Mitt is able to energize his base through his debate performance.
Delivery, forcefulness and just sticking to ephemeral crap without detail works well for them.

[WinkyDink]

10. It's not about us, though.

[Bonobo]

11. Certainly not.

But that doesn't change my opinion that Romney got the better of Obama overall in the debate.

[sadbear]

13. It doesn't matter who won tonight.

It only matters who the MSM says won tonight.

[WI_DEM]

14. Not me. I will be interested in what the polls show...

I don't think Mittens helped himself all that much.

[GusFring]

15. hr had no fight and looked weak. The shit Romney got away with

[Avalux]

17. I agree with you, but the media will now run with the Romney was amazing meme.

Unfortunately, with the media desperate for this race to be close, they'll carry Romney's water.

[mvd]

18. Look, I am not even enthusiastic about Obama. But the idea is to appear Presidential.

The President did and Romney did not. Obama wins. Anything that prevents Romney from being President is a good thing.

[GusFring]

19. He looked weak and tired. He lost big. NT

[mvd]

22. Could have mentioned more things, but..

That was Obama's strategy - to let Mitt rant and rave. Make him look like the idiot he is.

[siligut]

69. Mitt was on speed, it was relative

Willard was waving his arms and talking like a mad man.

[tblue37]

79. Money Boo Boo really barked at the moderator and talked over him. He was quite rude.

Jim Lehrer looked frustrated and peeved at Romney a lot.

Anyone who was offended when Gore rolled his eyes and sighed at Bush should be very offended at how rude Romney ws to Jim Lehrer.

Since it has been often claimed that Gore's sighing and eye-rolling lost the debate for him, I am hoping Romney's rushed delivery (he seemed hyped on the caffeine that Mormons are not supposed to ingest!) and his rudeness will cost him with some voters.

[budkin]

20. You need to fight sometimes. Obama didn't fight.

[demwing]

21. What a contrived question

Because we cannot answer honestly, and by your definition of "winning" say Obama lost.


Can you not just accept that Obama did less well than he could have, and Romney did better then we expected?

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

23. Don't patronize us with strawman options...

Obama was FAR too passive tonight. Never brought up the 47%, didn't point out that JUST YESTERDAY, Mitt talked about limited itemized deductions -- which would raise taxes on the middle class. Didn't point out that Mitt thinks poor folks should use the Emergency Room for primary care.

And on and on and on.

Hoping he does better in the next outing.

[jillan]

24. Thank you Jeff for saying what I wish I could - but I am speechless! Where was Obama tonite???

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

26. All I can say is that he was playing it safe...

Safe doesn't work. The campaign still have four weeks to go.

[CatWoman]

28. my first reaction was to tell you to go fuck yourself

but I have to agree with you.

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

30. Well....I do like it when you talk dirty

[CatWoman]

35. lol

[ohheckyeah]

68. I love Obama,

but I have too agree. I kept thinking WTF is he doing.

[lynne]

25. One has nothing to do with the other.

I do think Romney did better than the president on his debate performance tonight. My opinion on their debate performance has no connection or influence on who I would prefer to see as president.

[CatWoman]

29. but all he did was lie

[Jeff In Milwaukee]

31. He turned into Jon Huntsman

Romney IT people are out revising his website to get rid of all those positions that he just repudiated tonight.

[lynne]

54. Operative word is "performance" -

- and that doesn't always have a lot to do with truth.

[malaise]

27. Amazing indeed

I'm going to bed - I've had enough

[bigtree]

32. that's really the question here

How anyone here can see ANYTHING redeeming or praiseworthy in Romney's performance is the line I'm drawing here. I just can't see it. I seriously don't know what prism or filter one has to be looking through to give Romney ANY props for his jackassery tonight.

[LiberalAndProud]

33. Maybe it was rope-a-dope.

How many times did Mitt ver.2.0 6.0 contradict his previous incarnations tonight? Did he provide enough fodder for a few dozen Etch-a-Sketch moments? I wonder.

[AgingAmerican]

38. Obama did what he needed to do

I would like to see him jump on Romney's lies a little more aggressively, but he did what was needed to win the debate.

[BarackTheVote]

39. Romney was scary tonight

that smile didn't look natural... gut-wise, I felt like there was something very... WRONG with Romney...

[Homer Wells]

40. I'm expecting a whole slew of new political ads from the Obama Camp

using Romney's statements from the debate played against his own statements from the campaign! It's a good way for Rmoney hoisting himself on his own petard. Hell, the ads write themselves.

[LiberalAndProud]

49. This.

Listening to Romney spew got my blood pressure up, but in the end, I think Obama will prove to be the winner this evening. in a big way.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

41. You know I love you and all. But read Idiot America by Charlie Pierce and you'll

get your answer.

[Gregorian]

42. AND where are the specifics, Romney? He did nothing to clarify any of his positions.

Romney is still playing the "trust me" card.

No big game changer.

[rhett o rick]

43. Not a fair question and you know it. If you judge by your criteria, then it wouldnt matter how

they did. Romney is a lying, cheating flimflam man. Having said that, IMHO he came across tonight as well prepared and under control. Pres Obama is working from a disadvantage as he has programs in place that can be criticized while Rmoney's "programs" are make believe and will crumble under scrutiny.

The think is that Romney showed his game plan. I believe the president will be ready for him the next time.

[TheKentuckian]

44. Oh he was okay, maybe even won but he didn't kick ass and we all know that means losing

in the media.

Close or a near win is a net negative in these deals. Now it is about the spin and controlling the cycle.

[Jim__]

46. The problem is that if Obama doesn't call Romney on his lies ...

... a lot of the audience believes them.

[fried eggs]

47. Of course I would, but do the ignorant undecideds

or newly decideds know that Romney lied? Especially when the President is smiling and being cordial to him!

[flyguyjake]

48. It's not about us hard core Democrats..

It's about SWING VOTERS. Why do you think reality shows are taking over TV. People like drama, People like to watch a good fight. Obama wasn't fighting. Romney clearly was. Period.

[Raine]

51. Rmoney sucked, Obama was Presidential and held his own. nt

[gulliver]

52. Obama won. Mitt looked like he was going to cry most of the night.

It was a big man who smiled, who was in possession of his facts, and who didn't need to try to "nail" Romney on Bain or his taxes. If he had, he would have dropped to Romney's level.

[Blanks]

53. There was a point where the president was talking...

...and Romney had a bizarre expression. I looked over and said to my wife: "that's the clip we'll see".

It was about half way through and Obama was looking presidential and Romney was looking defeated. I think the president was talking about Dodd-Frank.

I think the Dodd-Frank portion of the debate was were Obama did the best. Romney was blowing smoke and got busted.

[CthulhusEvilCousin]

55. I don't understand

I'm not really understanding why so many of you think Romney won. Sure, Romney might have been more animated, but his statements were generalities. Obama hit him 3 or 4 different ways on Medicare and on taxes, and Romney just repeated his same point multiple times. For example, the part where Romney was stating that his medicare plan didn't effect any "young" people. So Obama replies, "If you're 54 or 55 years old, you might want to listen to this." And then he breaks down Romney's plan. So Romney, in his reply, doubles down on his original statement, confirming that young people are indeed anyone below 60 years old.

Stuff like this actually happened on a number of occasions during the debate, and Romney was woefully lacking in any real details. They would even ASK him for details, and he would just reply with generalities and emotional appeals. Obama's argument was, essentially, the logical and reasoned argument with details.

So, what exactly is the criteria for Romney winning? That he was more animated and repeated himself more loudly?

[Agnosticsherbet]

57. Calling who won is answering who did what he need to do, not voting

Romney did every thing to the moderator but scream, do you feel that, do you feel that.
He just flat lied when he said that this plan had no 20% across the board tax cut - but the lie stood.
He just flat lied when he said he would not increase the defense budget - but the lie stood.
He was passionate.
He dominated the conversation.
Every Republican that watched is salivating.

Romney was aggressive.
Obama was calm.

Romney won.

The question will be whether that wins independents and and the undecided who are only now tuning in.

I'll get back to you in four days when we've seen several days of spin and polls, but Romney was not put away. He actually excited his base for him, which is something I never expected.

[Oilwellian]

58. President Obama came across as exhausted

He looked so tired and had no energy. There are still several debates ahead and I think we'll see a different Obama at the next one. And of course Biden/Ryan will probably be very entertaining. Romney threw a lot of shit on the wall and the Fact Checkers will peel it apart. I think the average citizen was probably dizzied by Romney and will look to the Fact Checkers for discerning what the hell he was talking about.

[LuckyStrykes]

61. I talked with a repub friend

who thought Romney talked too much and pandered to the left. She is seriously considering not voting in November.

I think his supporters are going to have to do a lot of clarifying and cleaning up his responses. I think the buzz tommorrow will be his flip flops and his factually challenged statements.

Obama may have thrown this, but it may have been intentional. We will not be talking about this debate on Monday.

[Kalidurga]

59. I probably shouldn't be responding to this...

Because, I don't think Obama lost at all. Only one person addressed Mitt's expressions. They weren't good at all. He looked like he was constipated, several times it looked like he was soiling himself and I am not saying that to be funny. He looked robotic, his lips were really really stiff, now I see in a rather stark way why people call him robotic. He looked like he was about to cry several times. And his body language was twitchy in my opinion not energetic, there is a difference. Twitchy looks nervous and aggressive in a bad way, like an addict that needs to score drugs. Energetic is fine it implies passion. Romney did not look passionate not about what he was talking about anyway, more like nervous that people weren't going to buy what he was selling or that he wouldn't score his drugs. Not saying Romney is an addict, but that is a look I am familiar with having family members who are. If I was a Republican I would be very dejected about Romney's performance. I am ok not ecstatic with Obama's performance. I am very disappointed with MSNBC's performance however, I am very disappointed that they declared the constipated one the winner.

[Jamastiene]

76. That is where I messed up.

I only listened to the debate, because I was busy in the kitchen(something time sensitive I had to do). I didn't watch, only listened. So, I didn't see the movements. I will have to watch now.

I know from what I heard, Romney took up too much of President Obama's time interrupting too much. It made it hard for President Obama to answer questions and be heard. That was a big part of it. These debates do not usually degrade into everyone talking at the same time like some cut rate talk show that gives people headaches. That part was on the moderator of the debate. The moderator of the debate needed to make Romney STFU when it wasn't his turn to speak. If anything, by listening, Romney came off as rude and pushy.

[tblue37]

82. I think Romney looked hyped, like he had drunk a half dozen cans of Red Bull.

I know he doesn't drink caffeine--or at least he's not supposed to. I have no personal knowledge of whether he does or not. But he sure lookedand sounded like people I have seen who have the caffeine jitters and the rushed delivery that comes from too much caffeine.

I also had a conversation once with a young woman who was on coke (the white coke, not the dark brown caffeinated coke), and Romney sounded and acted the same way she did.

He also was incredibly rude to Lehrer when Lehrer tried to get him to stop and stay within the rules of the debate. He just bulldozed right over him. Soem people will take that as "feisty" and give him the win because of it. But I think a lot of people will recoil from it.

[Astrad]

60. Obama lost, here's why

Because Romney is such a terrible candidate. He's a truly awful candidate, a weather vane, a Thurston Howell, a schoolboy bully, a stiff unfeeling automaton. There were so many ways this could be emphasized and revealed and it wasn't. In fact Obama's treatment of him, made him seem more reasonable, acceptable, and unthreatening than he is. Obama did him a favour. So in that sense, Romney won big time.

[0zone]

66. Only ones who believes Romney won...

...are the gullible who believe all his lies. And he repeats them often enough that I want to throw up.

[regnaD kciN]

63. CBS instapoll gives it to Romney 48-22...

That pretty much says it all. Obama not only lost, he lost badly. As in "election decided tonight" badly. Sorry, but those are the facts.

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

65. aren't there 2 more debates?

Mitt had to cram to look ready for this one, now he's got to study for 2 more. I don't think he can hang with Mr. B

[LittleBlue]

67. 67-25 Romney

According to CNN

Objectively, the president is perceived as losing

[Fearless]

70. It's not about me. Its about average Americans.

The President seemed weak.

[Dash87]

71. A poster made a good point in another thread

There is only so much buzz about Romney's performance tonight because he was expected to perform horribly. The expectations were so low, that his mediocre performance tonight is actually being given way too much praise for what it was.

On the other hand, Obama appeared to lack passion, but this was not necessarily the case. I think part of the problem was how technical the debate became, with numbers, studies, and groups being thrown around. Lehrer was a poor moderator, and the debate as a whole was completely unstructured.

So, basically what I'm saying is, both Romney and Obama were mediocre tonight. Their performances were roughly equal. However, since we're used to Obama doing better, he looks worse. The opposite is true for Romney, leading to the overdone praise tonight (which will die down tomorrow).

Overall, a terrible, forgettable debate that meant nothing to anybody. I wouldn't doubt most people got bored and turned it off.

[pscot]

81. It really was an awful debate

Romney seemed crazed at times and Obama dozed off periodically. And Lehrer is a hopeless dweeb. Fortunately it's best 2 out of 3. The President better get his shit together. He can't afford another night like this.

[just1voice]

72. The entirety of TV land propaganda whores do indeed choose the rude liar

The "debates" are like the consumer price index, they aren't what the name suggests. Things that most Americans need, like universal health care, aren't going to be debated, those real issues don't matter in the debate paradigm. The only thing that matters is winning or losing a televised event, like a football game.

[MrSlayer]

73. No but that isn't the point.

Because I hate Romney doesn't mean he didn't win.

How does knowing that the President lost make me somehow enamored of Romney?

[Poll_Blind]

77. Silly bullshit strawman. Good lord. nt

PB

[NYC_SKP]

80. I'm like Lucy with the Football at times like this at DU.

I keep thinking that we're mostly rational intellectual unemotional thinking creatures who don't buy the pundits' hype.

And then a night like this comes along.

You can cut the drama with a knife.

As if Obama was going to attack like Sarah Palin....

Hell no, he's smarter than that and anyone who's been paying attention wouldn't be surprised by the President's strategy tonight.

Off to bed.

K/R

[radical noodle]

83. Absolutely!

I'm going to go donate to Obama as a show of support!

[eridani]

85. No, but there are many who would. Wasn't it Clinton who said

"Americans would rather have someone who is strong and wrong than someone who is weak and right"?