General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region Forums“Oh, shit!” Philadelphia cop sucker punches woman celebrating Latino heritage (w-Video)
A Philadelphia police officer has been caught on video allegedly punching a woman in the face after she appeared to throw water on him during the city’s Puerto Rican Day Parade over the weekend.
.....................
The clip shows the unnamed woman tossing water in the air in the direction of a group of police officers. A second person also throws water in their direction.
One officer in a white shirt runs over to the woman and punches her in the face as she’s walking away, laying her flat on her back.
“Oh, shit!” a bystander can be heard saying.
Video of the incident dated Sept. 30, 2012 was uploaded by YouTube user Gisela Valentin on Sunday.
&feature=player_embedded
http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2012/10/01/philadelphia-cop-sucker-punches-woman-celebrating-latino-heritage/
= new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight:
NoneDon't highlight anything
5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
porphyrian
(18,530 posts)JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)
The woman who got punched wasn't the culprit. Notice the arm to the left throwing water and the woman is wrongfully punched. She's the one with the shortsleeve black shirt. The longsleeve black shirt to the left is throwing the water.
porphyrian
(18,530 posts)Not to excuse this reaction, but the policeman who punched the woman didn't know what exactly was in that liquid and throwing anything at a cop is battery, which allows them to respond with force. Generally speaking, no one should be throwing anything at cops unless they are trying to provoke them into shit like this, which may have been their intent, I don't know. Again, that does not excuse the fact that this man punched a woman in the face as his first response. Wow.
backscatter712
(26,355 posts)So the cop just punched an innocent bystander, and if it weren't for the person filming, that woman would have been accused of "assaulting a police officer" and railroaded into jail.
porphyrian
(18,530 posts)He probably turned around and saw her with an empty cup and let her have it. I'm not excusing his behavior, but I think I know why it happened.
sendero
(28,552 posts).... well when he is justifiably kicked off the force, he can ponder his pathetically poor skills of deduction. And BTW, even it that HAD been the perp, his response would have been equally wrong.
porphyrian
(18,530 posts)However, for the same reason that I don't handle poisonous snakes, I wouldn't provoke a cop in a post 9/11 America by throwing fluid at them. Doing so shows poor judgment at least.
Romulox
(25,960 posts)bottomed out.
porphyrian
(18,530 posts)I don't know what your beef is with me, but I don't have time for it.
Romulox
(25,960 posts)Romulox
(25,960 posts)A battery allows anyone to respond with force--but only to protect oneself from further battery, not as a revenge beating. A cop may also use reasonable force to effect an arrest, but there was NO DANGER to the cop, nor was force required to effect the arrest.
TL;DR: A cop may use force in self-defense, or to make an arrest. That didn't happen here. There is no basis in law for revenge. None.
obamanut2012
(26,076 posts)You aren't allowed to beat something up AFTER THE FACT, just because you're pissed off, especially a cop.
porphyrian
(18,530 posts)I said that this cop acted inappropriately. I didn't excuse his punching a woman in the face. I wasn't wrong, either. If you have a case, take it to court. Thank you for your unnecessary knee-jerk hostility.
Romulox
(25,960 posts)Romulox
(25,960 posts)Was it a different "porphyrian" who posted the below? 'Cause that "porphyrian" is 100% wrong as to the law.
43. This is why police want it to be illegal to film them.
Not to excuse this reaction, but the policeman who punched the woman didn't know what exactly was in that liquid and throwing anything at a cop is battery, which allows them to respond with force. Generally speaking, no one should be throwing anything at cops unless they are trying to provoke them into shit like this, which may have been their intent, I don't know. Again, that does not excuse the fact that this man punched a woman in the face as his first response. Wow.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=1446464
randome
(34,845 posts)Kindly Refrain
(423 posts)Cops usually try to double down in these cases. Fucking pigs, all of them, even the "nice ones".
Ikonoklast
(23,973 posts)it was she that threw the water.
But it was someone behind her, she got wet, too.
That cop is FUCKED.
backscatter712
(26,355 posts)He'll be dealt with in the harshest possible way that the authoritarian fuckstains running this country will do to their own - he'll get a two-week paid suspension, he'll get docked a day's pay, and then this piece of subhuman shit will be back on the force.
Ikonoklast
(23,973 posts)They protect those that need to find another job, and are then vindicated to go out and to the same thing again...and again, and again...
Dawson Leery
(19,348 posts)In addition, the FOP along with the prison guard unions lobby to make more activities illegal (more "crimes" = more business).
Stamper has said you have to neutralize or eliminate them.
Response to Ikonoklast (Reply #15)
AnotherMcIntosh This message was self-deleted by its author.
randome
(34,845 posts)Zalatix
(8,994 posts)They almost always align themselves with the goal of protecting the ruling class. And themselves, too. At the expense of the 99%.
Response to Zalatix (Reply #82)
AnotherMcIntosh This message was self-deleted by its author.
TheMadMonk
(6,187 posts)And supervisors all the way up to Chief of Police are eligible to be (and in all probability ARE) members.
A delightful Band of Brothers who think this is defensible:
Or the cop who allegedly forced a suspect to perform oral sex on him in his police cruiser
I'll support and bash cops individually entirely on the merits of the information available to me. But unions/guilds/fraternal orders that stands behind that sort of BS is worthy of nothing but contempt, no matter how many widows and orphans they look after.
Response to TheMadMonk (Reply #158)
AnotherMcIntosh This message was self-deleted by its author.
Ikonoklast
(23,973 posts)See: http://articles.philly.com/2012-05-04/news/31573729_1_fop-ray-lewis-lewis-investigation
And caught a raft of shit for his stance...from the FOP.
Ikonoklast
(23,973 posts)Philly FOP also represents higher ranks, I found that in less than three seconds.
And I'll put my 24 years as a Union member, shop steward, and bargaining committee member up against whatever Labor cred you got.
I need to dig out my pics of the local cops crossing our picket lines when we went on strike.
Response to Ikonoklast (Reply #89)
AnotherMcIntosh This message was self-deleted by its author.
Ikonoklast
(23,973 posts)Have a nice evening.
uponit7771
(90,339 posts)Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)That white shirt cop needs to be arrested and charged with assault and battery.
a geek named Bob
(2,715 posts)Vattel
(9,289 posts)
matt819
(10,749 posts)She wasn't the one who threw the water. Look at the video.
While the cops weren't in riot gear, they were clearly formed for confrontation. That wasn't necessary. They set these events up for confrontation.
Th1onein
(8,514 posts)Could you give me the place in the clip where she threw water?
BTW, it doesn't matter if she threw water or not. This use of force is excessive. I'm so sick of these guys getting away with this kind of brutality against our citizens.........cue the posters who come in and say that there are still good cops. WHO CARES? They're all infected with hubris at this point.
tularetom
(23,664 posts)The fact that the cop was an asshole does not equal a get out of jail free card for her.
If she had robbed a bank and the cop punched her in the process of apprehending her it would not negate the fact that she had robbed the bank.
If it is determined that she threw the water, she and the cop should probably both be charged with assault and the cop fired or suspended indefinitely. The level of force he exhibited was far beyond what the situation called for.
Vattel
(9,289 posts)Sadly, the three I know always defend this kind of shit. I think we need more cops who are courageous enough to stand up against this shit.
SaveAmerica
(5,342 posts)by the officer pure and simple. He should be fired and she should press charges.
Watch again the water goes over her head and she turns to see where it came from, and her head turns back toward the cop as his hand punches her.
SaveAmerica
(5,342 posts)obamanut2012
(26,076 posts)
DiverDave
(4,886 posts)sheesh, what next?
dems_rightnow
(1,956 posts)Sheesh.
DiverDave
(4,886 posts)and to throw WATER in liquid form is not hurting ANYONE.
And then to throw a beat down? Just a bit over the top.
Then RAIN is battery...
OldDem2012
(3,526 posts)..."Battery"?? Give it a rest.
Response to OldDem2012 (Reply #153)
AnotherMcIntosh This message was self-deleted by its author.
glacierbay
(2,477 posts)it's battery on a police officer, but I sure as hell wouldn't have reacted in that manner nor would I allow any of the officers under my command to act with that, IMO, unneccessary use of force, any officer under my command who did that would have been facing unpaid leave pending the outcome of an IA investigation.
DisabledAmerican
(452 posts)When you play the video at full screen you see a guy's arm throw the water up over everyone. The Lady herself got wet looked at where the water comes from and the cops jump her thinking she threw the water. The guy who threw the water got away while she got decked in the face. I'm pretty sure this lady has a lawsuit coming if a lawyer gets a hold of the video and someone can protect her rights. This lady was a innocent. This could be you or me at a event do nothing wrong then someone else does something and takes a punch in the face.
shanti
(21,675 posts)he punched her, and then opened up his hand to look like it was a slap. 
Mariana
(14,857 posts)that everybody and his brother carries cameras everywhere now, and he was probably being recorded. Oops.
phleshdef
(11,936 posts)Dumb ass reactionary piece of shit then turns around and punches the woman in the face.
kooljerk666
(776 posts)they get laffed at, there ballz stomped & hung up on.
This includes benefits to cop families w/ dead cops, not an effing nickel.
Dawson Leery
(19,348 posts)As you said, not one cent to benefit coppers. They get more than enough from their bloated pensions.
backscatter712
(26,355 posts)You should be worshiping them!
WORSHIP THEM! OR THEY'LL KICK YOUR ASS!
4th law of robotics
(6,801 posts)will contain some percentage of saints, some percentage of assholes, and the majority that are basically decent but imperfect.
Likewise some will be competent and coolheaded. Others will be incompetent and emotional.
Most will be somewhere in the middle.
Giving them guns and telling them to deal with particularly dangerous situations will do little to calm down the angry ones and hide the incompetence of others.
RedCappedBandit
(5,514 posts)at moments like this.
4th law of robotics
(6,801 posts)Doesn't make the headlines when it occurs.
/where are all the stories about the 99.999% of children who are never kidnapped? Why do we only hear about it when they are?
RedCappedBandit
(5,514 posts)the supposedly good 99% of cops who stand by and watch while obvious abuses of power take place.
4th law of robotics
(6,801 posts)intervened and stopped anything bad from happening?
"Lady almost hit by cop but his partner suggested he not do that so everyone went home and ate cake instead" more on this story as it develops.
Mariana
(14,857 posts)"Lady hit by cop - other cops on scene immediately arrest him and charge him with assault and battery."
That's the one we never, ever see.
obamanut2012
(26,076 posts)FiveGoodMen
(20,018 posts)TheMadMonk
(6,187 posts)It's the fact that the best of them, stand foursquare behind the worst.
DLevine
(1,788 posts)
jsmirman
(4,507 posts)I watched it multiple times and full screen to see if people here really were seeing something different from the description.
I don't think so. If you watch carefully, she was holding *two* water bottles, one in each hand, and she certainly *appears* to be throwing water using the bottle in her left hand (she was throwing water first, then the second water thrower immediately comes into frame).
Watch again, and I think you'll realize you're in error if you think she didn't participate.
The response is still beyond absurd - how could that possibly have been necessary to secure her for arrest, even if that was the goal?
I think there will be some pretty serious fallout from this.
I'm glad someone was capturing the video of this. This is one way in which technology has helped bring incidents like this to the light of day.
As to the above, I'd just prefer to have the record straight, which I think people are, in a well-meaning way, getting wrong. The record that includes her throwing water and possibly deserving some form of police response is more than sufficient. It is an outrageous response to someone throwing water or to anyone the cops deem necessary to subdue. A punch to the face? That guy cannot be serious.
jsmirman
(4,507 posts)the video just hung for me at the right moment and I saw the actual water fly from the bottle in her left hand onto the cops.
I'm not just "pretty sure" anymore - I'm positive.
It justifies nothing. But I wanted the record to be correct, because it helps nothing for us to distort a record (even innocently) that is awful on its own merits.
uponit7771
(90,339 posts)...she's gonna get rich
jsmirman
(4,507 posts)Her hand going up and down may not mean that, but the stream of water clearly visible on the video between 0:00 and 0:01 certainly does.
She should get rich, anyway. The use of excessive force is ridiculous.
truebrit71
(20,805 posts)She is going to get very rich from the actions of that stupid pig...
jsmirman
(4,507 posts)you might want to read the thread.
There were two people who threw water. She was the first of the two.
The cops actions remain way beyond the pale.
Th1onein
(8,514 posts)Unless two people were throwing the water and she was one of them. She wasn't though. There was only one water thrower and it wasn't her. She DID get hit by the water, but she didn't throw any.
randome
(34,845 posts)Th1onein
(8,514 posts)That's not assault, in any form. At most, it's battery. And, given the circumstances, the cop overreacted. You're part of a celebration, for God's sake. Don't want silly string on you? Don't police the celebration.
HughBeaumont
(24,461 posts)The water is coming from the foreground, from the sidewalk, from a different hand. She did not at all release any water on any cop. I've watched the video multiple times as well to make absolute sure it was not her and it wasn't.
jsmirman
(4,507 posts)It happens between 0:00 and 0:01, which is probably why you missed it.
Watch that back and forth. I guarantee you there is a water stream from her bottle - in her left hand - onto the cops.
I would, as Romney says, bet $10,000 on it.
Because I have now seen it multiple times.
It's there - you're just missing it.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)jsmirman
(4,507 posts)which I believe I explain clearly.
The other person throws more water.
She also throws water, however, and the stream, which can be visibly seen in the video between 0:00 and 0:01, would have to be full of magic water pellets for none of it to make it onto the cops.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)someone else threw water & she took the fall for it. Regardless, punching was wrong and extreme.
jsmirman
(4,507 posts)In what universe that cop thought that punching her in the face was the appropriate response - it boggles the mind.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)That woman was so scared all the cop probably had to do was say "STOP! You're under arrest", and she looks like she would have gone easily. Disgusting that violence is their first instinct.
jsmirman
(4,507 posts)proper means of subduing someone, there is something seriously wrong in that department.
glacierbay
(2,477 posts)If it were me, I would've said Stop! Come over here young lady, did you just throw water on one of my officers? If I don't have probable cause to believe she did, then no arrest, even if she did and it was just water, then I will use my discretion as a supervisor and just give her a stern warning.
From what I can see from that video, I see no reason for the punch or the arrest.
HughBeaumont
(24,461 posts)jsmirman
(4,507 posts)She was first, the person offscreen was second.
Response to jsmirman (Reply #24)
JoePhilly This message was self-deleted by its author.
jsmirman
(4,507 posts)That is why I specified her left hand.
I would bet you all my worldly possessions that she has water bottles in both hands.
You need to watch it again and not just freeze the picture but watch the initial portion multiple times.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)And I found one in which she does spray some water at the very beginning. The first version of the tape I looked at didn't show it clearly enough. Maybe that's what's causing some of the confusion in this thread, people looking at different postings of the video.
The thing I also notice is that, at least from what I could see, the cops do not respond when she does it. None of them move or even look towards her. I tried to see if the guy who hits her saw her that first time, but if he did, you can't see it on the tape.
But then, after the second guy throws his long steam of water, which hits her too, they turn and go after her.
I also notice in the start of the tape, what look like other people with their cell phone cameras going. It will be interesting to see if any of that footage captures the start of this.
Having said all of that, I still can't see the cop smashing her in the head like that. Although, having grown up in Philly, and having a cop throw me around once or twice, back in the 70s, I probably shouldn't be surprised.
jsmirman
(4,507 posts)is still beyond what I grew up seeing, and growing up in NY, I saw a friend get a gun shoved into the side of his head and thrown against a squad car, simply because he was black, wearing a red shirt, and in a white neighborhood (that matched a suspect description, but really?).
I think this is going to get serious run. He punched a woman in the face. It doesn't matter that she was being a little rowdy. There was no need to punch her in the face.
But if there's an argument to why her water toss mattered at all, it's probably that it can often take a few provocations to draw a response, and the first may have added a cumulative effect to the second.
I don't know if an officer grumbled, "water" to the other group of officers, and then the second water toss (with much more water) came in, at which point they decided that they had a "situation."
I think it's hard to know exactly what happened beyond what we can see. And what we can see says that 1) she did something she shouldn't be doing but 2) the response can't possibly be justified.
I do think the reason so many people are missing her throwing water is because it happens at the very beginning of the video in the OP. It's right at the start, and if you don't lock on the video right from the top, you'll miss it.
randome
(34,845 posts)But what the hell was throwing water on police supposed to mean, anyways? It doesn't excuse the cop's reaction but what the hell were they trying to do?
jsmirman
(4,507 posts)that cop must have some serious problems.
Why are they throwing water? I don't know. Growing up in another major city, though, we knew giving the cops any additional reason to mess with us was a terrible idea. During the era I grew up in, they hassled us a lot. We certainly didn't go poking the bear.
randome
(34,845 posts)That's not setting a good example, to say the least.
jsmirman
(4,507 posts)at the very least.
And that's only if there are some mitigating emotional problems he's dealing with. And that would still require a lengthy suspension, without pay.
If this is how he normally conducts himself, he shouldn't be in any position of authority, iow, he shouldn't be a cop, period.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)Agree on your assessment.
The other thing is that as he approaches her, she is moving away, she is clearly no threat.
The other possibility on folks missing it is that if you hit play on the video, and then hit full screen, it might happen in the transition. But I also found that in one version I watched, when she turns to see who threw the water, so her left side is facing the person doing the video, her left hand appears empty. But in another version, you can see the second water bottle more clearly.
Anyway ... bugged me I missed it, so I decided to do a quick crop of the point where she throws the water. Its a detail that needs to be recognized, but like you said, the response still can't be justified.
jsmirman
(4,507 posts)as I said, the video played the same trick on my eye, initially, and at first I thought her left hand was empty, as well.
The first time I saw it clearly was only because my video hung and started at just the right point to see her tossing some water.
NickB79
(19,243 posts)They DO react two seconds later, however, when the SECOND thrower behind her gets his water on them.
It's pretty clear watching the video that even though she threw water, her water wasn't what set them off. They only flinch and turn when the second thrower's water lands on them.
TorchTheWitch
(11,065 posts)I had to watch it multiple times to see this as well. It would have been far more apparent had the video begun only a couple of seconds sooner than it did. She did indeed throw water on the officers and almost immediately after she does THEN the guy with the dark shirt flings water.
Regardless of the fact that she did indeed fling water on the officers, the punch by the supervisor officer in the white shirt was absolutely, totally and completely illegal. It was a strike purely out of anger and revenge. He was not protecting himself or anyone else from her, and it was completely unnecessary in order to arrest her.
I'm not seeing why the major argument here is whether or not she flung water on the officers since it is immaterial to the supervisor officers actions. Yes, she flung water on them. But that doesn't matter a damn when it comes to what the officer did to her. He is only allowed to use such force that is necessary to protect himself or others and to affect an arrest, and it is quite obvious that neither was the case here and that he punched her because he was angry and wanted to exact some revenge.
Seeing as this was captured on video and is out in public, thankfully, he is not going to skate on this. Though unfortunately, just like with supervisor officer "Tony Baloney" during the OWS protests, whatever punishment he receives will likely not be nearly what he deserves.
JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)ieoeja
(9,748 posts)He reacted to the second thrower and attacked the wrong person (not that he had a right to hit him either).
It was pure coincidence that the woman he assaulted had thrown some water from an entirely different spot at an entirely different target a couple seconds earlier. But all the focus will be on what the victim did, not on what the criminal did.
Romulox
(25,960 posts)uponit7771
(90,339 posts)Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)And publicly shamed, too. Fucking thug.
Comrade Grumpy
(13,184 posts)Update: The highway patrol supervisor seen hitting the woman in the video has been identified by sources as Lt. Jonathan Josey II, a man who once nominated himself to be a Daily News Sexy Single.
Josey, 39, a Daily News Sexy Single in 2006, said his most outstanding features were his "charm and magnetic personality." He said he was looking for a "sexy, sexy, sexy" woman and was sick of meeting women that act like girls.
EmeraldCityGrl
(4,310 posts)I use to hate that word but no more. Watch all the others around him circle
as they cuff her looking for what, cameras, press? If other cops would do the
right thing and denounce this type of violence I would support the police but they
never do.
The families of two police executed here in Seattle just received $5 million settlements.
Far more than the families of victims ever receive.
Brickbat
(19,339 posts)When you see a video of a lion taking down a member of a herd, the rest of the herd doesn't keep fleeing once the lion gets what it wants. The rest of the herd just sort of stands around blinking. No one else is in danger, because the lion has food. That's what this video reminded me of. The complete lack of reaction is disheartening.
HughBeaumont
(24,461 posts)Police are nothing but a legal GANG. That's what the crowd knows. That's why they let it happen. Cops don't get in trouble when they punch someone's ticket.
jsmirman
(4,507 posts)that even those inclined to play peacemaker figured they would get a nightstick in the face.
My natural inclination is to play peacemaker, and I often do - that is a rare instance where I can't say 100% that I know what my reaction would have been.
The cop's action is so incongruous with normal reality that it's hard to apply normal rules of behavior to any reactions.
I'm a little surprised that no one well to the back of the crowd doesn't start screaming at the cops, but they would just ignore that.
obamanut2012
(26,076 posts)They know what they'll do to them.
Logical
(22,457 posts)glacierbay
(2,477 posts)Thanks for clearing that up for me.
Logical
(22,457 posts)NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)glacierbay is on the streets daily protecting people such as myself and putting their life on the line. Your black and white view of things is very telling.
glacierbay
(2,477 posts)
Logical
(22,457 posts)glacierbay
(2,477 posts)I suggest you follow your own advice.
NCTraveler
(30,481 posts)"Read more, post less!" Your attempt to influence my behavior is clear.
Your logic is also very flawed.
"Your ignorance of cop abuse is more telling!"
Where have I ever said there is no cop abuse.
Logical. lol.
Nice use of exclamation points.
glacierbay
(2,477 posts)Logical
(22,457 posts)glacierbay
(2,477 posts)and when I called you on it, now you're changing the subject, I've been a cop for almost 30 years in a tough city, I've yet to meet a cop that's a coward, how much more insulting do you want to be?
You apparently have no fucking idea of what cops have to put up with day in and day out, the strain of not knowing if we're going home, the bodies we have to deal with, the children we see abused or worse, the horrific auto accidents, just to name a few, so who the fuck are you to call us cowards? I mean besides having a 1st Amendment right to.
And to answer your question, contempt of cop is not a crime in my city, even if it was, I wouldn't arrest someone for having contempt for me, like you seem to.
Have a great life and remember the next time you need a cop, no matter what you think of us, we'll show up.
Logical
(22,457 posts)Your powers? Really? Never harassed a guy just because he pissed you off? Never? Never arrested a guy for disorderly conduct because he pissed you off?
Most cops in large cities have the best union jobs in the USA! Great benefits, great retirement, great salary.
And most police forces defend the behavior of their cops at any cost. Behavior that would get any other citizen arrested or fired, is tolerated by the police.
I think cops should be held to a higher level than a lower one.
Maybe you are the only perfect cop left, if so congratulations.
But many of your co-workers are jerks who deserve to be fired.
glacierbay
(2,477 posts)When I joined the Dept., sure, I was somewhat badge heavy, but I had a very wise and levelheaded FTO who told me that treating citizens with respect would get me a hell of a lot further that being an asshole, and he was right, sure, during my career, I have been in fights, have used my asp, pepper spray, tazer, but only after the incident was escalated by the perp. I've had to draw my weapon numerous times, but I've never had to fire it yet.
I worked the Gang Unit for several years and because I was always respectful, I got a reputation for being fair but firm, and I was able to get alot of info from gang members whereas other cops couldn't because of their attitudes.
I agree that cops need to be held to a higher standard but your calling all cops cowards, that, IMO, is way over the top and you need to apologize to all the good cops out there who put on the uniform and badge day in and day out and risk their lives trying to make their communities a little bit better place to live.
Like I said, have a great life and next time you need a cop, we'll be there despite what you may think.
Logical
(22,457 posts)Abused your powers of arrest.
So you never arrested someone for disorderly conduct that was not deserved and had the charges dropped? That is pretty amazing. You must be unique and I appreciate that!
glacierbay
(2,477 posts)Disorderly conduct can include yelling and causing a scene in public, in which case I will try to calm the person down and send them on their way, if they're inside a private business and doing the same thing and refuse to leave upon the owner's request, then, yes, I have to cite them, then send them on their way, if they still refuse to leave, then I have no choice but to arrest them.
No, I'm not unique, there are thousands and thousands of cops out there just like me, but you never hear about them, guess why? Because they don't make for good reading in the news, but the bad ones sure do, it's the old axiom, if it bleeds, it leads. The good cops in this nation far outnumber the bad ones, despite what people may think or the perception the newspapers, news channels project.
Logical
(22,457 posts)For throwing water on a cop, should mean that cop should never ever be a cop again. I am sure you will disagree! Cops should lose their authority quickly upon abuse!
glacierbay
(2,477 posts)I said this is an unnecessary use of force. Period, and it's not something I would tolerate from any of the officers in my division. You need to quit trying to say what I will agree or disagree with.
Like I already said, if it had been me, I would have taken the young lady aside and gave her a stern warning and send her back to the protest, I saw no reason whatsoever for the battery or arrest, none, and there are thousands of cops who will feel the same way.
I'm still waiting for your apology about the crack that all cops are fucking cowards.
TheMadMonk
(6,187 posts)...of thing, or even KNOWS of a colleague's similar actions and does/says nothing then I will raise the appelation to pusilanimous pissant.
Keeping your mouth shut out, because you're afraid such a colleague might be tying his shoes or checking his facebook when the shit hits the fan makes you/cops no better than a street gang maintaing internal order with shared criminal acts.
glacierbay
(2,477 posts)I'm a LT. in a fair sized city in MO, I have appox. 30 officers in my division and I tolerate no misconduct, corruption, unnecessary use of force from my officers, I will and have taken officers off street patrol and assigned them to desk duty pending the outcome of an IA investigation.
I am not the most popular LT. in the Dept. but I'm not running a popularity contest, I'm supervising a division and I expect my officers to conduct themselves with the utmost integrity while on or off the job. I'm hard but fair and they know exactly what to I expect of them and what they expect of me as a supervisor.
TheMadMonk
(6,187 posts)...with the divy van, through tight turns at high speed, with no seatbelts or padding in back, if they decide you've pissed them off. Oh yeah handcuffs behind back too, so no hands to brace.
Not far away is another town where the entire precinct was relocated (not fucking prosecuted) because of multiple allegations of custodial rape against multiple officers.
And this is Australia where we're reputed to have some of the best cops in the world.
If what you say is true, then you are to be commended as a way too rare bird.
That you don't deny what I had to say about the behaviour of other cops suggests you know just how rare you are.
glacierbay
(2,477 posts)but the good cops far outweigh the bad ones, but you only here about the bad ones because they make for good press, it it bleeds, it leads.
Handcuffing behind the back is standard procedure in just about any LE in this country, not unusual about that.
TheMadMonk
(6,187 posts)However, it only takes a couple to start the rot which sets an entire precint on the path to corruption. Which then puts thousands of people entirely at the mercy of criminals on both sides of the law. A perfect example is the "drug corridor" into and out of Mexico, where multiple police departments all along the corridor grab Southbound cash, but all but ignore Northbound drugs, which of course becomes more Southbound cash in due course.
And even just one can do a disproportionate amount of damage, both to those he directly victimises and to the reputation of the force.
Yes I know handcuffing in back is SOP in most parts of the world, but rally driving with a prisoner unrestrained in what amounts to an unpadded box or steel cage most certainly isn't.
glacierbay
(2,477 posts)because it's true, I see first hand what the WOD and drugs themselves do to individuals and families. I worked the gang unit for several years and it was an eye opener for me, I also worked as an undercover narcotics officer for 2 years, that was quite the experience.
I believe that ending the WOD will go a long way towards reducing violence on our streets, it would take the money away from the drug cartels and thus crooked cops, which I have nothing but contempt for, if certain drugs were legalized, it would bring massive revenue into local, state, and federal coffers, unfortunetly, until the drug laws are changed, I am forced to enforce those laws, although I do have some descretion on how I enforce them.
Our Dept. regulations are very specific on transporting person in our custody, arms handcuffed behind the back, transported in rear seat secured with restraints (seatbelted in), absolutely no exceptions, and as a supervisor, I strictly enforce those regs.
nc4bo
(17,651 posts)the reaction does not justify the offense and was completely unnecessary. G'damn 
is going on here!?
The ill-tempered bully needs to be fired/terminated not suspended, not given a leave of absence. Terminated.
obamanut2012
(26,076 posts)And, regardless of what some on here are saying, she did NOT throw that water. A man in a LS black shirt did. Even if she had, cops do not get to punch citizens in the face just because.
Fla Dem
(23,668 posts)I watched several times amd never saw any arm movement by her that would indicate she threw water. The video starts out with her walking toward the group of cops. As she gets closer, she seems to jump up as to try and see what is going on. As she does that you can see a stream of water coming from the very left of the video. You can just see a blue sleeved arm with the water bottle. She starts turning around to walk away just as the water hits the cops. They see her turning and walking away, and ASSUME it was her who threw the water and sucker punches her. As she is on the ground the camera moves to the left and you see the girl who actually threw the water reacting to the punch and getting the hell out of dodge. However, whether it was her or not, she did not deserve to be punched in the side of her head by a cop who had 200 pounds on her. She could have fractured her skull, either by the punch or hitting the pavement. Totally uncalled for. And as he had a white shirt, I will ASSUME he is some type of command position. He should be fired, and the girl should sue his butt off.
JoePhilly
(27,787 posts)The image below is from a freeze frame of the video, very close to the start. What you can see is that her left hand is raised and there is the start of a small stream of water moving towards the police. In the video, this happens very early on, and its happens very quickly. And when it happens, there is no response from the police or anyone else.
Importantly, none of this matters. The cop has no reason to smash her in the head. Later in the video, a second guy clearly throws the water that causes the police to respond. And that response is clearly over the top regardless of who threw the water.
Folks might want to check multiple versions of the video to find this detail. The first video I watched didn't have sufficient detail and I also believed that she had not thrown water.
By the way, in the image I posted, you can see the hand of another guy video taping events. Which suggests there might be multiple videos of this event from various angles.
jsmirman
(4,507 posts)Baitball Blogger
(46,711 posts)All he had to do was reach out and take her by the forearm.
jsmirman
(4,507 posts)"We were made aware of the video very, very early this morning. Internal Affairs opened up an investigation in reference to the incident and the actions of that officer," (Lt. Ray) Evers told ABCNews.com. "The incident is being fully investigated."
"The video speaks for itself," Evers said. "There were people in the crowd throwing items at the officer, water and other things."
In regards to whether the officer has faced any disciplinary action, Evers said, "The duty status of the officer has not been determined as of yet."
Evers said the decision is expected to be made sometime today and he predicted it would be, "either full duty or administrative capacity."
(parenthetical is mine, for clarity)
I do not see Puerto Rican elected officials and community leaders letting this one go. I think Lt. Evers may not realize he is about to face a shitstorm.
OldDem2012
(3,526 posts)...police to respond as if they're in some kind of physical danger?? Seriously??
I guess the "other things" being thrown include silly string? Another danger to police?
Any first year lawyer could take this to court and win big, very big.
BumRushDaShow
(129,012 posts)Th1onein
(8,514 posts)Lt. Jonathan Josey II is his name and he nominated himself as one of Philly's sexy singles of 2006. Here's the link to the picture of his sexy, sexy self.
http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/dncrime/Video-shows-police-supervisor-hitting-woman-at-Puerto-Rican-Day-Parade.html
jsmirman
(4,507 posts)not water - although it is hard to be sure.
Watch the gif, though:
jeanmarc
(1,685 posts)nt
OldDem2012
(3,526 posts)randome
(34,845 posts)That doesn't excuse what happened but she was dancing around like an idiot and taunting cops who were standing around trying to do their jobs and she practically begged them to lose their cool.
Well, she got her wish. The cops should have been better trained if they were put in this situation. It's a lose-lose situation all around.
They kept control of their temper for quite a while it seems. Still doesn't excuse their reaction but the entire episode was so unnecessary.
OldDem2012
(3,526 posts)I guess I'm not understanding your point of view on this. Please point out where she broke the law.
She didn't do ANYTHING that deserved being punched in the mouth by a cop that outweighed her by close to 100 pounds.
randome
(34,845 posts)But is that water she is throwing or Silly String or something else? I mean, what kind of asinine behavior is that? If it's Silly String, she is making it much harder for the police to do crowd control. I'm sure that's against some kind of law -interfering with a police officer, for one.
That doesn't excuse what happened but, for Christ's sake, what did she WANT to happen by doing that? In a tense, crowd control situation? That's like me walking into a gay bar and starting to taunt people as 'fags'. Sure, I might not 'deserve' to be beaten up but it would sure look like I wasn't very smart, wouldn't it?
Enrique
(27,461 posts)if she did something stupid who cares.
He is a police commander, a big guy, 6'3", with a gun and enormous authority. And look what he did.
randome
(34,845 posts)And if you want to ply on our sympathies by pointing out that she has a family to take care of, why the hell was she harassing cops in the first place?
Celebrating Latino heritage? By harassing cops? Sorry, that's stupid. She still does not deserve to be punched but like I said, I'm no longer certain that's what happened.
jackbenimble
(251 posts)I want to see his video to see if the silly string she sprayed hit any of the officers.
jsmirman
(4,507 posts)it would have been very hard for that cop to miss what she was doing. Which may have led to her being identified when the police decide they've had enough and finally turn around, looking for someone to blame.
Regardless, that in no way excuses what is a crystal clear example of police brutality.
LaurenG
(24,841 posts)Damn...
kiranon
(1,727 posts)The woman was no threat at all. Officer who hit her needs to be suspended and, if facts support it, fired.
Locrian
(4,522 posts)While she threw water - the punch wasn't defense. It was an aggressive offense - no excuses.
L0oniX
(31,493 posts)
cecilfirefox
(784 posts)I also can't see any physical indication from the officers in front of her that would imply they were turning around because they had gotten wet, or something had contacted them. It looks like she was just standing in the right place at the right time for the cop to assume it was her, and then he went after and punched her.
Am I missing something? I'm seeing hand motions from her but I'm not necessarily convinced I'm seeing any liquid being thrown out?
bluestate10
(10,942 posts)cecilfirefox
(784 posts)which I don't see. I don't see her ever releasing any water- which isn't the point. She was targeted by the policemen because he assumed it was her.
Iggo
(47,552 posts)They're the best!
WillyT
(72,631 posts)
Arctic Dave
(13,812 posts)What a total douchebag.
Mariana
(14,857 posts)He should, but he won't.
NutmegYankee
(16,199 posts)Her actions, while stupid, in no way justified that kind of grotesque display of violence. Even more noticeable - his use of violence like that indicates he has a low regard for Latinos or women, and he is unfit for duty. That officer should be fired.
Bucky
(54,013 posts)The water went over her head, from her direction, but that cop lashed out without probable cause. He slugged the wrong civilian.
You need cops who can keep their cool. This cop didn't.
Catherine Vincent
(34,490 posts)That video is awful. Almost as bad as the cop that kicked a handcuffed woman that was sitting down in the face.
Barack_America
(28,876 posts)Because he was grabbing from behind, the can came up and hit her in the mouth, she falls backwards and the can eventually comes out of her hand and clatters in the street.
Or he pushes her down to get the can, which his eyes stay focused on.
I'll present those possibilities for discussion.
I suspect this won't be a popular opinion around here, but hey, I'm a PhD and coming up with an alternative hypothesis is pretty much ingrained in me.
tkmorris
(11,138 posts)And, for the record, coming up with absurd alternative theories to explain a thing which is quite obvious to begin with is NOT a trait most PhDs exhibit.
Barack_America
(28,876 posts)...sure would have made for an easier thesis!
FYI, lots of "obvious" things don't stand up to further scrutiny. Not saying that's the case here.
Robb
(39,665 posts)She knew it, extends her arm instinctively to keep it away. It looks like she also steps on a plastic bottle of some kind and goes off-kilter right before he makes contact.
But it's a pretty damn hard hit to be grabbing for an item.
On edit: some screen captures. Looks like his hand's open at least, and he might've been grabbing. Still difficult to tell.
Enrique
(27,461 posts)
aint_no_life_nowhere
(21,925 posts)Water? Water like you could get splashed with from a lawn sprinkler if the breeze changed? If I had had a gun on me and that woman had been a member of my family, that cop would no longer be walking the Earth. I'd probably be dead, too. I'm not a fan of violence but my hot Corsican blood would not allow anyone, not even a cop, to do something like that to a female member of my family. It's a matter of honor.
bluestate10
(10,942 posts)It is clear from the video that the water came from behind her, it even hit the woman. It is easy to see the woman turn to look for who threw the water as the cop came up and punched her. The cop should be fired, his conduct was completely uncalled for.
randome
(34,845 posts)She is clearly throwing something or shooting silly string.
sabrina 1
(62,325 posts)Last edited Wed Oct 3, 2012, 04:39 AM - Edit history (1)
Silly string! Right, that gives a man a right to beat up a woman.
Thank you once again for your insightful observations.
randome
(34,845 posts)It's strange that some DUers will post without reading the entire thread.
And the post you responded to was in response to the idea that she did nothing. She clearly was doing something. Just speaking to the facts, ma'am.
budkin
(6,703 posts)That pig is bacon!
JI7
(89,249 posts)glacierbay
(2,477 posts)treat all citizens like you want to be treated, and conduct yourselves as if you are being filmed, because you probably are.
AtomicKitten
(46,585 posts)The woman in question did not.
I hope she sues the crap out of the douchebag that punched her.
Duppers
(28,120 posts)Notice, at the VERY beginning of the clip, the woman had a water bottle in her left hand with her arm extended over her head but it looks as if the bottle had its white cap in place.
Put the video on full screen and do a frame by frame stop action of the first split second of the clip.
I think that asshole cop saw her with the bottle and assumed that it had to have been her that threw the water.
Btw, acid would have burned almost instantly.
What he did to her is outrageous. And I hope this clip is admissible in the court.
liberal_at_heart
(12,081 posts)I live in Seattle. Seattle has just been found guilty in a federal investigation saying it uses excessive force with minorities and the disabled, and I agree. The good cops don't get enough training because of lack of funding, and all too often don't do a good enough screening to keep out bad cops. I completely agree. There have to be changes. But one afternoon while my baby girl was sleeping in her bedroom and I was in the back bedroom cleaning two burglars came into my house looking to steal some Christmas gifts. I felt much safer after the cops came. I didn't know if these people were coming back or not. This was when my baby girl was less than one years old. Now, she is seventeen. Last week there was an internet threat against her high school. The school closed for one day. The local police and the FBI both worked on tracking this person down. My child had to go back to school not knowing if the threat was real and if it was real if the person would show up at anytime to do what he said he would do. They caught the suspect just today. Now I can feel safe sending my daughter to school tomorrow. Just like no one likes a lawyer until they need one, no one likes a cop until they need one either. I believe that bad cops should be dealt with. They should lose their jobs and sometimes go to jail depending on their offense, but I will always be grateful for the GOOD cops out there just like I will always be grateful for the good teachers and fire fighters out there as well.
