Did we accomplish anything positive in Afghanistan over 11 long years?

[cali]

October 7th is the 11th anniversary of our longest war.

We don't talk about it much. It's become background noise.

The cost of the war is mind boggling. Over a trillion dollars and counting. Think about that: A trillion dollars. For what exactly?

To bring democracy to Afghanistan? Hasn't happened. Karzai is completely corrupt. To improve the lot of women? I suppose women are marginally better off than under the Taliban, but it's hardly a sweeping improvement. To make us safer? How? What danger does Afghanistan pose to us? And aren't our actions in Afghanistan and Pakistan engendering more hatred, more opposition?

The argument that we need to stay or we risk a failed state in Afghanistan is patently absurd. It is a failed state and 11 years there hasn't changed that.

Troops are scheduled to leave this year. I expect that drone strikes will become even more frequent. The Taliban may well complete their takeover of the country.

This is the news out of Afghanistan today:

A suicide bomber driving a motorcycle packed with explosives rammed his bike into a patrol of Afghan and international forces on Monday morning in eastern Afghanistan, killing at least 14 people, including three NATO service members and their translator, officials said.

The Taliban claimed responsibility for the blast, which came as relations between international forces and their Afghan partners have been pushed to the breaking point by a surge in insider attacks by Afghan allies.

The bomber struck a group of Afghan police and international troops shortly after they got out of their vehicles to walk through a market area in Khost city, the capital of Khost province, said provincial government spokesman Baryalai Wakman.

<snip>

http://www.latimes.com/news/la-fgw-afghan-suicide-attack-20121001,0,2734161.story

Tragic Anniversary, everyone.

[rfranklin]

1. We've made great strides in artifical limbs...

I saw a veteran with protheses for legs playing a great game og golf last week.

[Lurks Often]

2. I think we did some good things in Afghanistan,

but I doubt they will last once we leave.

Probably the most positive thing we did was to improve the life of women and female children and to a lesser degree the life of the average Afghani, at least the ones that don't live in or near the tribal mountainous regions along the border where the Taliban and the other religious fanatical Muslims live.

Once we and the rest of NATO leave, I expect things to return to the way they were.

If it were up to me, I'd probably allow as many Afghani's that want to, to immigrate to the US or any other country that would take them.

[Romulox]

6. The very idea that we can explode enough people to give Afghans a civil society is laughable. nt

[Bonobo]

7. As for women, they were much better off before the Taliban.

In the l970's, many women began to attire themselves in Western clothing. Women were being educated in universities and working as representatives in government. In l973, the monarchy was overthrown by Muhammad Daud who declared himself president. He was overthrown, in l978, by leftist military officers. The new president was Noor Muhammad Taraki, and his lieutenant Hafizullah Amin became Prime Minister.

A revolutionary program that included land reform and the emancipation of women began. These reforms were intolerable for traditionalists and armed revolt was instigated by the mullahs and tribal leaders. In l979, Prime Minister Amin created a reign of terror by arresting and killing opponents and took over rule of Afghanistan while Tarik was off in Moscow, only to return to be executed by Amin. The rebels controlled most of rural Afghanistan by the summer of '79, and Amin refused to abide Soviet directives to moderate his policies. The Soviet Union invaded on December 25, l979.

The next decade was fraught with violence and destruction, but it was during this time that women's rights reached their pinnacle in Afghanistan's history: 50% of teachers, government employees and students were women, and 40% of doctors were women. When the Soviet Union left in l989, the nation fell into chaos, and women's rights quickly eroded. By 1992, the beginning of civil war, women were precluded from public service, and by 1994 women were only seen in public in the burqa.

[Lurks Often]

8. I certainly agree it was better

before the Taliban. I was only referring to the time frame that the Taliban were in control over there. Sadly they may very well be in power again.

[Brickbat]

3. I think the very size of this waste makes it hard to understand.

I think there's a tendency to see numbers like "11 years" and "a trillion dollars" and think that because those numbers are so big, they must be justified somehow. It's tragic.

[Romulox]

4. Well, we lost our way of life here at home while making defense contractors rich.

MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!

[Bonobo]

5. I used to think Karzai was fashionable, now he reminds me of Ootah from The Man Who Would be King

[WinkyDink]

9. We kept the opium/heroin trade thriving?

[TheKentuckian]

10. That is a negative, Ghost Rider. In fact, matters are worse.

At least for us and probably AfPak as well considering all the stiffs and all the hell the living have had to deal with.

[jsr]

11. Horrible waste of blood and treasury.

[OldDem2012]

12. Accomplished about the same as the British and the old Soviet Union....

...before they eventually went home.

Kipling's old poem:

The Young British Soldier

When the 'arf-made recruity goes out to the East
'E acts like a babe an' 'e drinks like a beast,
An' 'e wonders because 'e is frequent deceased
Ere 'e's fit for to serve as a soldier.
Serve, serve, serve as a soldier,
Serve, serve, serve as a soldier,
Serve, serve, serve as a soldier,
So-oldier ~OF~ the Queen!

Now all you recruities what's drafted to-day,
You shut up your rag-box an' 'ark to my lay,
An' I'll sing you a soldier as far as I may:
A soldier what's fit for a soldier.
Fit, fit, fit for a soldier . . .

First mind you steer clear o' the grog-sellers' huts,
For they sell you Fixed Bay'nets that rots out your guts --
Ay, drink that 'ud eat the live steel from your butts --
An' it's bad for the young British soldier.
Bad, bad, bad for the soldier . . .

When the cholera comes -- as it will past a doubt --
Keep out of the wet and don't go on the shout,
For the sickness gets in as the liquor dies out,
An' it crumples the young British soldier.
Crum-, crum-, crumples the soldier . . .

But the worst o' your foes is the sun over'ead:
You ~must~ wear your 'elmet for all that is said:
If 'e finds you uncovered 'e'll knock you down dead,
An' you'll die like a fool of a soldier.
Fool, fool, fool of a soldier . . .

If you're cast for fatigue by a sergeant unkind,
Don't grouse like a woman nor crack on nor blind;
Be handy and civil, and then you will find
That it's beer for the young British soldier.
Beer, beer, beer for the soldier . . .

Now, if you must marry, take care she is old --
A troop-sergeant's widow's the nicest I'm told,
For beauty won't help if your rations is cold,
Nor love ain't enough for a soldier.
'Nough, 'nough, 'nough for a soldier . . .

If the wife should go wrong with a comrade, be loath
To shoot when you catch 'em -- you'll swing, on my oath! --
Make 'im take 'er and keep 'er: that's Hell for them both,
An' you're shut o' the curse of a soldier.
Curse, curse, curse of a soldier . . .

When first under fire an' you're wishful to duck,
Don't look nor take 'eed at the man that is struck,
Be thankful you're livin', and trust to your luck
And march to your front like a soldier.
Front, front, front like a soldier . . .

When 'arf of your bullets fly wide in the ditch,
Don't call your Martini a cross-eyed old bitch;
She's human as you are -- you treat her as sich,
An' she'll fight for the young British soldier.
Fight, fight, fight for the soldier . . .

When shakin' their bustles like ladies so fine,
The guns o' the enemy wheel into line,
Shoot low at the limbers an' don't mind the shine,
For noise never startles the soldier.
Start-, start-, startles the soldier . . .

If your officer's dead and the sergeants look white,
Remember it's ruin to run from a fight:
So take open order, lie down, and sit tight,
And wait for supports like a soldier.
Wait, wait, wait like a soldier . . .

When you're wounded and left on Afghanistan's plains,
And the women come out to cut up what remains,
Jest roll to your rifle and blow out your brains
An' go to your Gawd like a soldier.
Go, go, go like a soldier,
Go, go, go like a soldier,
Go, go, go like a soldier,
So-oldier ~of~ the Queen!

Rudyard Kipling, 1895



And here's a modern British soldier's version:


Afghanistan (With apologies To Kipling), by an anonymous British soldier

When you’re lying alone in your Afghan bivvy,
And your life it depends on some MOD civvie
When the body armour’s shared (one set between three),
And the firefight’s not like it is on TV,
Then you’ll look to your oppo, your gun and your God,
As you follow that path all Tommies have trod.

When the gimpy has jammed and you’re down to one round,
And the faith that you’d lost is suddenly found.
When the Taliban horde is close up to the fort,
And you pray that the arty don’t drop a round short.
Stick to your sergeant like a good squaddie should,
And fight them like satan or one of his brood

Your pay it won’t cover your needs or your wants,
So just stand there and take all the Taliban’s taunts
Nor generals nor civvies can do aught to amend it,
Except make sure you’re kept in a place you can’t spend it.
Three fifty an hour in your Afghani cage,
Not nearly as much as the minimum wage.

Your missus at home in a foul married quarter
With damp on the walls and a roof leaking water
Your kids miss their mate, their hero, their dad;
They’re missing the childhood that they should have had
One day it will be different, one day by and by,
As you all stand there and watch, to see the pigs fly

Just like your forebears in mud, dust and ditch
You’ll march and you’ll fight, and you’ll drink and you’ll bitch
Whether Froggy or Zulu, or Jerry, or Boer
The Brits will fight on ‘til the battle is over.
You may treat him like dirt, but nowt will unnerve him
But I wonder sometimes, if the country deserves him.