WHO PAYS UNESCO? AND WHAT IS THE POINT?

[littlemissmartypants]

Last edited Sun Sep 30, 2012, 10:05 AM - Edit history (4)

ANOTHER WORLD HERITAGE SITE DESTROYED...

Site of Palmyra

Read the description and look at the slide show because it will never look like this again. I am weeping.

http://whc.unesco.org/pg.cfm?cid=31&l=en&id_site=23&gallery=1&&maxrows=56

[littlemissmartypants]

1. Video, Bing Translator Description Arabic to English

Embracing this oasis located in the Syrian desert northeast of Damascus huge effects of big city formed one of the most important cultural centres of the ancient world. Because they occur at the confluence of several civilizations, were destroyed in her art and engineered the first and second centuries between Romanian and Greek techniques, local traditions and influences of Persia.

&feature=player_embedded

[loli phabay]

2. you do realise that you would probuably need unesco backed up by a division of armour

in order to protect sites that are in the middle of a uprising.

[littlemissmartypants]

4. Do you really think the

'UPRISING' is the cause of all this...?

[loli phabay]

21. well when you have two side fighting each other in an area its pretty obvious

If they were not fighting each other then they wouldnt be shelling and shooting and burning the area.

[littlemissmartypants]

3. Here you can enjoy more photos of a place you will never see

Philip Lund > Collections > Syria 2008 > Palmyra

http://www.flickr.com/photos/iplund/sets/72157605305894869/with/2530562065/

How would you be feeling right now if our national treasures were in ruins? I cannot bear to think of it.

[muriel_volestrangler]

5. This thread would make more sense if we had an idea of why you started it

Palmyra has not been in the news. I cannot find anything later than a French video from July claiming some Syrian soldiers were carrying away some statues: http://archaeologik.blogspot.de/2012/07/looting-at-palmyra-video-proof.html

Were you under the impression that UNESCO can put armed guards on all the Heritage Sites around the world close to civil wars? If it were that easy to keep an independent armed force in other countries and tell them 'fuck you', world diplomacy would be a different place.

[littlemissmartypants]

7. Civil war is looking more and more

like just another money grab at the expense of the Little Guy to me. The souk was an ancient farmers market that had been there since the first century. I am just feeling what anyone would be feeling if the government decided to bomb the supermarket at the strip mall. But we have lots of those. So I guess it would be no great loss... Thank you UNESCO for posting the "nice pics" NOW let me see if I can find any other WORLD HERITAGE SITES TO CRY ABOUT... oH, Let's look in Portugal...

[muriel_volestrangler]

9. Are you possibly thinking about Aleppo, about 200km NW of Palmyra?

Since that has a souk that suffered a major fire yesterday. If so, I fail to see how you can expect UNESCO to stop fighting in an inhabited city. Experience has shown that occupying troops cannot halt a civil war. See: Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq ...

What is your Portugal remark meant to say? Are you claiming someone is threatening World Heritage Sites there too? Is your vision of UNESCO an all-powerful multi-national army that can parachute into any country and occupy the Sites with overwhelming force?

[littlemissmartypants]

11. Wow

you really zeroed in on that PROTECT word didn't you. It is a well documented fact that when troops are engaged in a conflict the conflict escalates. Paratroopers are not the only tool in the toolbox, I hope.

[muriel_volestrangler]

13. How did you think UNESCO was going to stop the fighting in Aleppo?

Now it seems established that you're talking about there, not Palmyra. What would you have done, as a UN civilian organisation that works through diplomacy, to stop fighting that the Security Council, Arab League, an ex-UN Secretary General, and the best negotiator for that area that the UN has, have completely failed to do. Do you think that the sides that have happily killed thousands between them would suddenly stop when someone pointed out the historic buildings they're likely to damage?

I dunno, maybe I zeroed in on the word 'PROTECT' because you put it in capitals in your thread title?

[littlemissmartypants]

15. hAppI?

.

[muriel_volestrangler]

17. So you are saying this really is about Palmyra?

OK, get real - what do you say has happened to Palmyra, and what did you think UNESCO should have done there, that you think they should be 'fired' for?

[littlemissmartypants]

18. I am having this

gut feeling that the "global economy" is code ...for out with the old in with the new. Have you ever heard the Joni Mitchell song..."paved paradise and put up a parking lot...?

[muriel_volestrangler]

19. Did you mean to post that in another thread?

Because it's a total non sequitur. The subject of your own thread is UNESCO and Palmyra.

[littlemissmartypants]

10. I am just

concerned that when the dominos start to fall in earnest we will look back and say when we thought it was close to over it was just beginning and we did nothing.

[JustAnotherGen]

6. It's going to happen

My husband turned his juried artist status into a UNESCO restoration and preservation specialist years ago. More of these sites and buildings are under attack by the weather and environment than they are human beings. They do the best they can. November of last year Genoa, Italy had a weather event that caused horrible flooding. Aside from people in distress - and his empathy for his fellow country men and women . . . He said: at least three years when combined together out of my life are gone.


Breaks our hearts to never see things.

Breaks the hearts of he preservation and restoration specialists a thousand times more. It's a chunk of their life gone forever. And as passionate as they are about their own art/architectural medium - they are passionate about preserving the "masters" they learned from.

[littlemissmartypants]

8. Thank you for posting this

Please tell him I said thank you but someone needs to create some leverage in that organization, Mother Nature is cruel yes. Human nature does not have to be so unidimensional.

[littlemissmartypants]

12. I am thankful for people like your husband.

I believe there are more like him with gifts in many areas where the individual members can gather around like links in a chain who are strong in their convictions and hope. Unidimensions...I just don't get.

Examples of One-Dimensional Thinking
"You're either with us, or you're with the terrorists" - George W. Bush
"Atheists hate Jesus."
"If you don't vote in favor of gay marriage, then you're homophobic."
"If you're not going to heaven, then you're going to burn in hell."
"People in favor of gun control want everyones' guns to be confiscated by the government so that only criminals will have guns."
"If you don't like the President why don't you move to Communist China?"
"People who criticize Israel are anti-semetic."

and one more
Civi War is a good reason for the destruction of things we once held precious.

Am I naive?

[JustAnotherGen]

22. No not naive

Well intentioned! but . . . I would flip one if my husband bid to go restore iron work there now . . . Just as he turned down the offer to bid on a job in Colombia. . Keep in mind - what brought him to the US in 2001 was A. His specialty and B. the amount of metal that was imported here from Europe in the 17th and 18th century. Because of his UNESCO work - the American Historical society has plenty of work in places like NYC, Savannah, New Orleans, etc etc.

There are only four other people in the worl that can do what he does - example - bring a crew into a 14th century church in Belgium and restore the metal around the stained glass. The two apprentices he has are going to need at least another ten years to get up to par.

If we send him there NOW to save it - we could lose a knowledge source. We can hope the people of Syria will have the kindness of the warring countries of WW I and II. This may be controversial - but as my husband is a citizen of Italy - he says thank God for Mussolini saving ancient Rome. Even he had that kernel of knowledge that something precious was there.

If they can't see it - there may be nothing we can do..

But you aren't naive. Somehow I get the feeling we would travel abroad with you. you could probably spend a day at Lamani in Belize with us and want to back for more the nex day, and the next, and the next.

[littlemissmartypants]

23. Belize

Last edited Sun Sep 30, 2012, 01:05 PM - Edit history (1)

...if I am not mistaken there are direct flights from here... $505 RT

[littlemissmartypants]

24. Mask At The Temple Of The Masks. Lamanai, Belize.

[pampango]

14. Giving the UN more power to do anything runs squarely into the 'national sovereignty'

folks. Giving ANY international body the authority to impose sanctions on a sovereign country for violating international norms is opposed by many. See this exerpt from the Texas GOP platform:

National Sovereignty – We insist that the President and Congress defend our national sovereignty in accordance with their oaths of office. Therefore we believe the United States government must remain free of external control or influence, including, but not limited to, a North American Union and a security and prosperity partnership.

United Nations – We support the withdrawal of the United States from the United Nations and the removal of U.N. headquarters from U.S. soil.

Law of the Sea – Adopted by the UN in 1982, we still oppose the Law of the Sea Treaty.

UN Treaty on the Rights of the Child ― We unequivocally oppose the United States Senate’s ratification of the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child.

United Nations Agenda 21 -The Republican Party of Texas should expose all United Nations Agenda 21 treaty policies and its supporting organizations, agreements and contracts. We oppose implementation of the UN Agenda 21 Program which was adopted at the Earth Summit Conference in 1992 purporting to promote a comprehensive program of sustainable development projects, nationally, regionally and locally.

Cap and Trade – We oppose Cap and Trade (“Cap and Tax”).

International Organizations – We support U.S. withdrawal from the International Monetary Fund, the World Trade Organization and the World Bank.

http://s3.amazonaws.com/texasgop_pre/assets/original/2012Platform_Final.pdf

Basically the GOP in Texas (and many other states) opposes any international organization that is anything more than a debating society. Any such organization with any real power can force a country to live up to a commitment that it agreed to - hence, in their view, violating that country's sovereign right to not abide by its commitments.

The UN is a particular target of right-wing ire because they see it at the precursor to the dreaded One World Government.

[littlemissmartypants]

16. So if I mourn the destruction

of antiquities I am in favor of One World Government?

[pampango]

20. Of course not, but that is the spin you will get from the 'sovereignists' like the Texas GOP.

Any time you are seen as endorsing an international body (like UNESCO) taking actions consistent with the reason for its creation, you will be seen by many on the right (and some on the left) as being on a 'slippery slope' to OWG.

As you can tell from the Texas GOP's platform, national sovereignty is to be protected at all costs - which is why they oppose every international organization under the sun. (Of course, right wing American sovereignists have a 'good' reason to want international bodies to keep their noses out of 'our' business. Most of the developed world has much more progressive labor, environmental and other policies than we do, so keeping keeping those 'other' liberals away from our conservative policies is just what they want.)