General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWhy can't atheists get any leverage ?
It seems to me that every other group in this nation gets pandered to , except atheists.
Bush sr. was asked about the "atheist vote" while he was campaigning and responded with "I don't consider atheists to be patriots is US citizens"
The entire GOP remained silent , and so did the Democrats. I saw it as the perfect time to grab the atheist vote , but it was non-story.
Why are atheists ignored by both parties ?
yellerpup
(12,254 posts)LAGC
(5,330 posts)http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irreligion_in_the_United_States#Irreligion_in_politics
The only demographic that voted for Obama more heavily in 2008 are African-Americans as a whole.
yellerpup
(12,254 posts)And the results say that we atheists vote wisely. I don't think I ever heard predictions on those percentages before the vote though. I think what I was going for in my original post is that atheists are not 'organized' to vote with one voice (as say, evangelical voters) by a leader. But, that is very cool news (to me). Thanks for bringing me up to date.
no_hypocrisy
(46,190 posts)founded in Judeo-Christian principles. Kinda makes us "the other" in their world.
randome
(34,845 posts)Puzzledtraveller
(5,937 posts)perhaps opposed to those who don't identify and are just non-religious? I know people from both sets, those that say they are atheists and those that don't but are non-religious and they vary politically to some degree. Conservative vs. Liberal, Demorcat vs Republican, there can by any number of reasons why someone may align with one over another with the fact they are atheist being the only thing about them. IMO.
quinnox
(20,600 posts)It's like asking why aren't "Hollow Earthers" catered to. Not enough votes to target such a small population.
msongs
(67,441 posts)Fumesucker
(45,851 posts)justiceischeap
(14,040 posts)and 3.5 million atheist/agnostics and 2.6 million Jews yet they pander to both the LGBT crowd and Jews.
surfdog
(624 posts)leftynyc
(26,060 posts)Jews (as a group) always VOTE. Any group that consistenty votes will get pandered to.
Logical
(22,457 posts)immoderate
(20,885 posts)They demonstrate to people that their core principles are irrelevant, and they resent it. theists know, on a reptilian level, that they cannot be wrong. And when they see atheists are not smitten by the Lord, it stresses their reality.
Most atheists are liberals, except the Libertarian types. Those votes are pretty much locked in.
Note that Obama, who I will hold my nose and vote for, (probably) is the first pres to cite non religious in his speeches. But he is a fundy (or plays one on TV.)
--imm
qazplm
(3,626 posts)Everyone fears death, whether they admit it or not, at least a little bit. But one of the ways people get around that fear is the belief that something waits for them on the other side. Atheists say, no, nothing waits for you, you die, that's it.
I'm agnostic but the idea of nothingness isn't exactly a pleasant one for me either, even though I suspect that's the answer for most of us sooner, and at some point if we are technically advanced enough, the rest of us later (even if you lived for 1 million years it wouldn't approach the age of the universe and heat death means sooner or later everything in the entire universe dies).
So, I can understand why at a base level, someone would not exactly find atheism an appealing ideology and not much like those who practice it because it directly strikes at a fundamental, human conceit/fear.
immoderate
(20,885 posts)Yup! That's right! I edit my posts!
--imm
Moostache
(9,897 posts)I object strongly to the oft repeated sentiment that atheists "believe" or have anything to "say" about a specific religion or that they make any blanket statements about what happens after physical death. I see no compelling argument that would make me accept the assertion of any omniscient, omnipresent, benevolent deity figure. Atheism is non-belief; NOT a belief or statement about ANYTHING else, including specific religions!
Atheism is a default position of simply saying there is no physical or real evidence to support the claims of all religions - be they Jew, Hindu, Christian, or Greek, Roman, Pagan, etc. Atheism is a rejection of the positive claims of others that simply goes ONE GOD further than EVERYONE ELSE!
If you claim to be Christian, then by default you are atheist to all other known or previous religions (just as the priests of the temple of Apollo or Zeus or Athena were not dedicated to the other gods of the Greek pantheon)...and if reincarnation is real, you reject all future ones too! You do not worship Thor or Zeus or Isis any more than those ancient Norsemen, Greeks or Egyptians worshiped a cosmic Jewish carpenter-zombie!
When people self-identify as "Christians" (or any other religious label you wish to wear) they are applying an identifying in-group label to themselves - but they exclude all others as out-group (and in most cases inherently less valuable lives).
When people self-identify as "atheist" they are rejecting ALL labels from ALL religions - including the Jesus cult or Mohammedanism, or the Jews, or the Hindus, or anyone else from the thousands of religions that the mind of man has sprung forth since the dawn of communication (and in most cases I know personally, they do not care what you want to convince yourself of or what fables you wish to prefer or who you wish to convince yourself is "watching out for you", as long as you leave them out of it and have the decency to keep it to your own privacy).
greyl
(22,990 posts)Atheism doesn't really say anything about whether or not there is an afterlife, and a God existing says just as much.
fifthoffive
(382 posts)an atheist is that he/she does not believe in any gods. I met an atheist once who was strongly anti-abortion.
Atheists are not single-issue voters, unlike many Christian conservatives.
If you think herding Democrats is difficult, try herding atheists. We don't corral easily except on issues of church and state which no politician will touch with a ten-foot pole.
ProudToBeBlueInRhody
(16,399 posts)I know plenty of atheists who are right-wingers and libertarians. I even know one who rejects the idea of giving to the poor and needy as basically "Christian guilt trip bullshit".
Response to surfdog (Original post)
HereSince1628 This message was self-deleted by its author.
maggiesfarmer
(297 posts)UTUSN
(70,740 posts)I'm saying that there are likely to be way more atheists who don't label themselves, who just live their lives, whose de facto practices are just done without "activism."
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)I would imagine that if a big-money PAC were set up, interest, votes and influence would go up also.
superpatriotman
(6,252 posts)and re-branding.
A good PR firm could handle that.
eShirl
(18,503 posts)ba-doom cha!
The Straight Story
(48,121 posts)We can't ask people what religion (or philosophy) they are when hiring, when getting rentals, etc and so on.
You generally can't have school led religious functions, even if the entire school were all of some faith, so atheists don't have to put up with the rest of a community's ideals/traditions in a public place.
They can start their own orgs/churchs, buy bill boards, etc and so on.
So what leverage do they want and what do they want to accomplish with it?
Got no problem with people being atheist/theist/etc, just trying to understand the problems here.
99Forever
(14,524 posts).. some HUGE fancy buildings in high dollar areas to party in tax free?
Jes sayin'
The Straight Story
(48,121 posts)As soon as enough folks chip in to buy one, register it as a super pac, and buy the beer.
Invite me over
greyl
(22,990 posts)PVnRT
(13,178 posts)PassingFair
(22,434 posts)Most atheists are "progressives".
opihimoimoi
(52,426 posts)Douglas Carpenter
(20,226 posts)Solly Mack
(90,787 posts)Or anyone else for that matter.
If they pander to you it means you have influence and leverage
Solly Mack
(90,787 posts)But I don't need my ass kissed either.
Some politicians pander to the religious right and to do so they have to appeal to some truly base and bigoted thinking. Downright obsequious in many cases.
What I need are politicians that work for the common good of America, where ALL Americans are respected and their needs considered. Where there is no room for pandering to the lowest common denominator because appeals to prejudice are considered insulting. (wishful thinking, I know)
That doesn't take pandering - that just takes the recognition that things like discrimination are very bad for America.
A politician acknowledging that some Americans are atheists and that they are often subject to the whims (such as Bush's statement) of bigots isn't pandering - merely acknowledging a fact.
It could very well be that you're using the word pander to mean something other than how I think of the word. I hear 'pander' and I think of politicians saying anything and everything just to get a vote or money.
Give me actions - positive action that demonstrates a commitment to addressing (and working to correct) things like discrimination. Don't pander to me by telling me what you think I want to hear. I find that insulting.
I shouldn't have to have power or leverage or influence to have a voice or place in my government. To be seen as a citizen worthy of full rights.
Union Scribe
(7,099 posts)What exactly is a politician supposed to address? They share one belief (if you must, a non-belief) but not necessarily other politically graspable traits. I've met many libertarian Rand-type atheists and a few RW atheists, though most probably reside on the left, where they are going to vote regardless of any "pandering." These are people supposedly not defined by religious persuasion, so I see no reason to "pander" to them as though they were.
dawg
(10,624 posts)If 5-10% of the country is made up of athiests, what % of the country is made up of closed-minded theists who would react negatively to a candidate just for reaching out to the athiest community? 15%? 20%? I'm thinking it would be more than 10% of voters, even in Democratic primaries.
The candidates perceive, probably correctly, that there is more to be lost than there is to be gained.
Bruce Wayne
(692 posts)Ha-ha, just kidding, old chum. That's really the hand of my pal, InvisibleGiantMan.
yortsed snacilbuper
(7,939 posts)The Reason Rally is an event sponsored by many of the countrys largest and most influential secular organizations. It will be free to attend and will take place in Washington, D.C. on March 24th, 2012 from 10:00AM 4:00PM at the National Mall. There will be music, comedy, speakers, and so much more. We hope you can join us! Please poke around this site for more information, stay tuned for frequent updates, and let us know if you have any questions!
http://reasonrally.org/
scheming daemons
(25,487 posts)"leaders" who think for us.
Response to surfdog (Original post)
Post removed
ScreamingMeemie
(68,918 posts)Oh...wait a minute. We don't care enough to be offended about not being pandered to.
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)Lots of it.
Until then? Meh... You're just people who don't believe in anything.
JCMach1
(27,572 posts)and would never organize as a political bloc
JI7
(89,264 posts)it's what i am. there are things i care about like seperation of church and state but these are things even those who believe in religion and other things care about also.
JFN1
(2,033 posts)Man, do I get tired of hearing this assertion, that if a person is not religious, they are somehow defective, shallow, hollow, missing something vital, worthy of pity, ultimately incapable of believing in anything, thus unable to make any kind of meaningful contribuion, which overall, makes an athiest worth much less, than a believer.
Bull. Shit.
I would submit athiests actually believe in many more things than do religious types. A mind opened to realistic possibility becomes flexibile, able to believe and accept what IS, rather than merely attempting to believe what is comfortable...
Fearful delusion robs the mind of creatve capacity, limits growth, and calcifies thinking. There is a frenetic desperation around the edges of the true believer, which seems to be absent in the athiest.
Also, the fear of death is measurably lessened for the athiest, in my opinion.
I forget who said it, but one of my favorite quotes concerning death goes: "I was content before I was born, I will be content after I die. What in this is there to fear?"
And I find myself fascinated by the last words (reported by his sister) one of humanity's towering geniuses, Steve Jobs, spoke as he died: "Oh wow. Oh wow. Oh wow."
TroglodyteScholar
(5,477 posts)The one I've heard a lot (moreso when I lived in the deep south) is "you can't hold any meaningful values without believing in God (or the Bible)." The people making this point (for lack of a better word) rarely have any actual education in religion nor ethics.
lunatica
(53,410 posts)to push their beliefs on everyone else. I don't care that you're an atheist any more than I care if you're a Christian. Just leave me alone to have my beliefs without trying to stuff yours down my throat.
But if you want more atheists in government then run for office.