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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWhat Romney's Hiding: 'It's the Amnesty, Stupid' - Swiss Bank/UBS Amnesty Deal of 09', Remember?
Last edited Mon Sep 24, 2012, 11:22 AM - Edit history (1)
Paul Abrams, Huff Post 9/23/2012:
Why does the press feign puzzlement about what Romney is hiding by not revealing his 2009 tax returns?
He has already revealed the extent of his foreign bank accounts, the approximate amount of his holdings and two years of taxes that are less than the middle class pays. Even if he had paid zero in some years, that is already baked into the political cake.
His disclosure of his 2010 account omitted information about his Swiss bank account at the Union Bank of Switzerland (UBS). Why is the press not asking for this form? UBS was fined $760 million for putting Americans into abusive tax shelters and forced to reveal more than 4000 Americans who banked with them under numbered accounts.
The 4000+ Americans who were exposed by UBS were offered amnesty from criminal prosecution for tax evasion if they closed their Swiss Account, recalculated and paid all back taxes and paid a 25 percent penalty on the largest amount.
Romney closed his UBS account in the time required. He did not close his other foreign accounts.
With strong circumstantial evidence (see below), should not the press be peppering Romney with questions about amnesty, and, if he says no, ask him for any alternative explanation why he closed the UBS account, why he did it at that time, and whether he would allow the IRS Commissioner to verify, or not, that Romney is telling the truth?
more: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/paul-abrams/what-romneys-hiding-its-t_b_1908104.html
also:
Matthew Yglesias, Slate 7/17/2012:
When attempting to engage in baseless speculation over what it is that's in Mitt Romney's tax statements that's so embarassing he'd rather take the heat for non-disclosure, I think it's important to remember that he was actively running for president in 2007 and 2008. That means it's relatively unlike he was doing anything during those years that he thought couldn't withstand scrutiny. So why not release a nice even five years of tax data? Perhaps because of something that happened in 2009.
Something like this:
Wealthy U.S. taxpayers, concerned about an Internal Revenue Service crackdown on the use of secret overseas bank accounts as tax havens, are rushing to meet a Thursday deadline to disclose those accounts or face possible criminal prosecution. The concern was triggered this summer when Switzerland's largest bank, caught up in an international tax evasion dispute, said it would disclose the names of more than 4,000 of its U.S. account holders.
The decision shattered a long-held belief that Swiss banks would guard the identities of its American customers as carefully as they did their money, and it raised concern that other international tax havens might be next. Under an amnesty program, the IRS is allowing taxpayers to avoid prosecution for having failed to report their overseas accounts. As a result, tax attorneys across the nation have been besieged by wealthy clients who are lining up to apply even though they will still face big financial penalties.
Romney might well have thought in 2007 and 2008 that there was nothing to fear about a non-disclosed offshore account he'd set up years earlier precisely because it wasn't disclosed. But then came the settlement and the rush of non-disclosers to apply for the amnesty. Failing to apply for the amnesty and then getting charged by the IRS would have been both financially and politically disastrous. So amnesty it was. But even though the amnesty would eliminate any legal or financial liability for past acts, it would hardly eliminate political liability.
More: http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2012/07/17/romney_s_tax_returns_is_the_2009_swiss_bank_account_amnesty_what_he_doesn_t_want_us_to_see_.html
and:
Kim Dixon, Reuters 9/18/2009
A UBS letter obtained by Reuters tells clients their accounts fall under a deal signed in August that ended a long-running dispute with the U.S. government over off-shore assets of U.S. clients.
The letter lands in the mailboxes of rich Americans as they decide whether to participate in the U.S. Internal Revenue Service's amnesty program -- a chance to reveal income in tax havens such as Switzerland, Cayman Islands and Monaco while generally avoiding prosecution.
Lawyers said the UBS letters have been received by a cross section of clients -- even those with relatively modest assets of under $1 million.
"Everybody who was coming to my office last week, said 'it's not going to be me,'" said Bryan Skarlatos, a tax lawyer at Kostelanetz & Fink in New York.
In exchange for coming clean by the September 23 deadline, individuals pay back taxes and a reduced fine, while generally avoiding criminal charges.
After months of tortuous negotiations that involved the Swiss government and challenged the country's tradition of banking secrecy, UBS agreed in August to disclose the names of 4,450 American holders of secret accounts at UBS.
The letter obtained by Reuters said the IRS is seeking information about those with direct accounts at UBS in Switzerland and those who owned accounts indirectly through an off-shore company. The letter was dated September 10.
William Sharp, an attorney at Sharp Kemm in Tampa, Florida, who represents American clients of UBS and was in Switzerland this week, said UBS transferred the first 500 files to Swiss authorities on September 11.
When the IRS amnesty program expires, tax cheats face more costly penalties as well as possible criminal prosecution.
"These people are panicking," said Paul Behling, a lawyer with Withers Bergman, a firm working on about 300 such cases worldwide. "Basically it's a rush for them."
UBS' four-page letter spelled out a process it said may "ultimately result in the submission of your account documents ... to the IRS (U.S. Internal Revenue Service) and the loss of the opportunity to participate in the IRS Voluntary Disclosure program."
The letter advises clients they have 20 days to hire a representative, or be assigned one by Swiss authorities who will be processing the names. It gives them a choice of having UBS act as their agent as well.
The IRS refuses to say how many tax amnesty applications have been filed. However, the agency did say that during a single week in July, about 400 individuals turned themselves in under the program, four times higher than the number of tax evaders coming forward in all of 2008.
more: http://www.reuters.com/article/2009/09/18/us-ubs-taxletter-idUSTRE58H3FZ20090918
this is about the UBS whistleblower... He was released from prison this August and the IRS just awarded him $104m a couple weeks ago?
DAVID KOCIENIEWSKI, New York Times 9/11/2012
Bradley C. Birkenfeld, a former banker at UBS, recently served two and a half years in prison for conspiring with a wealthy California developer to evade United States income taxes.
But Mr. Birkenfeld, 47, has a lot to show for his time and effort: The Internal Revenue Service acknowledged on Tuesday that information he had provided was so helpful that he would receive a $104 million whistle-blower award for revealing the secrets of the Swiss banking system.
By divulging the schemes that UBS used to encourage American citizens to dodge their taxes, Mr. Birkenfeld led to an investigation that has greatly diminished Switzerlands status as a secret haven for American tax cheats and allowed the Treasury to recover billions in unpaid taxes.
In addition to paying $780 million in 2009 to avoid criminal prosecution, the bank turned over account information regarding more than 4,500 American clients.
The disclosure of Swiss banking information which caused a fierce political debate in Switzerland before winning approval from the countrys Parliament set off such a panic among wealthy Americans that more than 14,000 of them joined a tax amnesty program. I.R.S. officials say the amnesty program has helped recover more than $5 billion in unpaid taxes.
Mr. Birkenfelds award, the largest ever paid by the I.R.S., is also a milestone for the agencys whistle-blower program, which offers informants rewards of up to 30 percent of any fines and unpaid taxes recouped by the government.
-snip-
Mr. Birkenfeld is an unlikely crusader for tax fairness. A native of Massachusetts who studied banking at the American Graduate School of Business in Switzerland, he spent five years recruiting American clients for UBS which managed some $20 billion in assets for Americans before reporting the banks schemes to the Treasury Department. Mr. Birkenfeld also admitted in court that he once smuggled diamonds for a client in a tube of toothpaste.
He said he learned in 2005 that the banks advice to clients was illegal, and after reporting it to the UBS compliance office to no avail, he decided to become a government informant.
During the investigation Mr. Birkenfeld was charged with fraud for withholding crucial information from federal investigators, including details of his top client, the property developer Igor Olenicoff. Mr. Birkenfeld was sentenced to 40 months in prison, and was released early on Aug. 1.
more: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/12/business/whistle-blower-awarded-104-million-by-irs.html?_r=0
nc4bo
(17,651 posts)WHY are they covering for him do you think?
It needs to be asked and tax returns need to be examined!
BlueStreak
(8,377 posts)It doesn't matter if he answers it. We will know the truth instantly depending on whether or not we hear that obscene laugh of his.
nc4bo
(17,651 posts)and just asks the question.
leftynyc
(26,060 posts)for the debates. Let the President ask it in front of 10s of millions.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)I can see it now,...
Mitt: I'll open with twenty.
Bartcop: Call. How many cards?
Mitt: I'll play these.
Bartcop: Dealer takes two.
Mitt: I raise a hundred. (stupid laugh)
Bartcop: Here's your hundred and I raise you a thousand.
Mitt: Oh yeah? (stupid laugh) Here's your thousand and I raise you a million!
Bartcop: (Enjoying watching Mitt squirm) Call.
Mitt: Aren't you going to fold?
Bartcop: You've been called.
Mitt: Fold.
BlueStreak
(8,377 posts)...
MSM: I call. Whatcha got, Mittster?
Romney: (stupid laugh) I have FIVE aces. I'm not going to show them to you. You just have to take my word for it. Looks like I win the million bucks.
MSM. OK. (Wow, that guy is good.)
Romney: (stupid laugh)
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)trailmonkee
(2,681 posts)If
DJ13
(23,671 posts)For all we know many of them and their colleagues might have also had accounts with UBS.
closeupready
(29,503 posts)including fake 'journalist' millionaires in the media.
There is little question in my opinion that SOMEONE in the media (or more than one) parked assets in UBS accounts, so Romney has a sympathetic party in all those who did. Don't look for them to ask this question.
BlueStreak
(8,377 posts)I realize that Romney doesn't face many questions outside of Faux softballs, but he does have surrogates that are exposed to questions from other outlets. Why isn't anybody asking the surrogates this question? They would bob and weave, of course, and most of them probably don't actually know the answer. But that bobbing and weaving would open up the wound so that Romney would eventually have to answer it.
And if the answer is "No, that's ridiculous. I never took any amnesty on Swiss bank accounts." then that is fine. If we hear that fake laugh, we will know the truth. And if Romney lies outright about amnesty, I bet there are some whistle blowers who would come forward. They may not want to come forward today because it is confidential information. But if Romney lies about it in public, that changes the whistle-blower game.
closeupready
(29,503 posts)it came out that someone like Lara Logan or Matt Lauer had UBS accounts, i.e., those whose personal financial affairs are either under a high degree of scrutiny or potentially are.
We certainly know plenty of media personalities lean far right politically, or have political sympathies with GOP plans to lower taxes on the rich even further.
trailmonkee
(2,681 posts)trailmonkee
(2,681 posts)Cha
(297,270 posts)I hope more and more ask the "Press" to do their JOBS like Paul Abrams!!
trailmonkee
(2,681 posts)nc4bo
(17,651 posts)Everything related to Mitt Romney's skeazy, slick methods of doing business should have been enough to keep in out of politics - but no, it's just the opposite.
We've got some serious cleaning up to do in this country.
trailmonkee
(2,681 posts)So transparently corrupt of I'd to offer amnesty? These guys knew exactly who they were dealing with
HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)upi402
(16,854 posts)The media traitors need to be peppered with questions too;
Why are you failing to uphold the priveleged right duty of the 4th Estate?
ProgressiveEconomist
(5,818 posts)taxes ACTUALLY PAID WHEN DUE for 1990-2009. David Cay Johnston pointed this out about this week's Price-Waterhouse-Coopers document on Ed Shultz's MSNBC show.
This implies that there were audits and/or amnesties that resulted in make-up payments of taxes for past years, plus penalties and perhaps interest.
The "OWED" language in th e "summary" thus could be another very important clue to what Romney is hiding.
BlueStreak
(8,377 posts)There are certainly years where he actually paid less than 13%, or maybe nothing at all. But the idea of "owed" is that after audit/amnesty a higher amount was OWED for that tax year, but only PAID in a later year after the audit/amnesty.
Losing an audit is not that unusual, and it is entirely possible they chose this peculiar language, not because they took amnesty, but because they are fixated on the idea that it is OK to pay 14% but the public would be outraged if he paid 9%. I don't get that. 15% is outrageous, and so is 9%. Twisting 9% around so it looks like 14% doesn't make it any less outrageous when middle class people are paying much more.
And Romney's argument about double taxation is bogus too. yes, sometimes that is a factor, but consider this common scenario. I buy 1000 shares of WGIT (Widgets International) at $5/share. This is a start-up that has never made a profit. Then a series of very favorable articles appear in the financial press and online pump-and-dumpers. The price shoots up to $45, whereupon I sell. The company has never paid any income tax, yet I have a capital gain of $40,000.
Now, most of Romney's income is not from normal stock investments. His income comes largely from Bain assets, and many of them have been stashed offshore. Why are they offshore? Undoubtedly to EVADE paying income tax. SO it is the same deal. If he realizes a personal gain on these assets, there is no assurance that the gain came from corporate activities that were already taxed.
closeupready
(29,503 posts)on their income or are subject to income taxation, no such concept of "double taxation" applies, anymore than a concept of triple, quadruple or quintuple taxation, since the money has changed hands many, many times since it left the US Mint.
gopiscrap
(23,761 posts)it's the amnesty that he particpated in.
tavalon
(27,985 posts)Too bad the media lapdogs don't care.
silvershadow
(10,336 posts)grasswire
(50,130 posts)An email address was provided by Romney's trustee, Mr. Malt, for the express purpose of asking questions about the tax materials he has provided.
returns@mittromney.com
I wrote and asked if the Romneys had ever sought or been granted amnesty by the IRS.
trailmonkee
(2,681 posts)grasswire
(50,130 posts)But I wish a whole lotta people would send messages to Romney's trustee.
trailmonkee
(2,681 posts)trailmonkee
(2,681 posts)Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)Jackpine Radical
(45,274 posts)If he took the amnesty, it was after McGrumpy vetted him. The Swiss money wouldn't have shown up at all on his returns.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)Now what would be really sick is if the whole idea of the forgiveness was to protect Romney specifically.
Native
(5,942 posts)cbdo2007
(9,213 posts)Makes it look close, builds up suspense, then nails him at the last minute and he drops out of the race in shame with 2 weeks left. He can't say in the race after this comes out and they know it.
Remember, the bigger the media builds you up, the more they want you to fail and they'll make it spectacular.
trailmonkee
(2,681 posts)leveymg
(36,418 posts)I wish the world worked that way, but experience has taught me to be more skeptical of how major corporate institutions -- including the MSM -- work in this country.
leveymg
(36,418 posts)Problem is, the major media reporters and top editors ARE doing their jobs. If they upended the apple cart by asking "unauthorized" questions, they would be fired.
The answer to this question would also bust all hopes of a "horse race", reducing media election ad revenues.
closeupready
(29,503 posts)Swiss bank account - I had not previously considered that.
The more I hear about it, the more confident I am that he took the IRS amnesty.
A real journalist would simply ask him on camera, "did you take the IRS amnesty?"
Naturally, few if any of those who claim to be journalists in the US today are going to do that.
trailmonkee
(2,681 posts)trailmonkee
(2,681 posts)closeupready
(29,503 posts)on his ability to speak duplicitously.
Recent case in point, this nonsense about retiring from Bain 'retroactively'.
Spazito
(50,349 posts)it is good to finally see some discussion of it. It's really Occam's razor, the simplest, most likely reason for his inability to release anything from 2009, imo, and seeing as he can't release 2009, it locks up the previous years as well.
trailmonkee
(2,681 posts)Uncle Joe
(58,364 posts)Thanks for the thread, trailmonkee.
Spazito
(50,349 posts)It came up on Now with Alex Wagner, the point was made that it would show up in his 2009 tax return.
trailmonkee
(2,681 posts)BlueStreak
(8,377 posts)Why was he willing to show 2010, and even bring out 2011 five weeks before the election? But he wasn't willing to show 2009 six months earlier when it would have been old news months ago?
I don't know what it takes for people to get this through their thick skills. The problem is in the 2009 return. There is something toxic about that return. We are just guessing that it was the amnesty program because that fits the other facts and would certainly make the 2009 return 100% toxic. But maybe it is something else. Nevertheless, the obvious starting point is to ask whether or not Romney used the Swiss amnesty program. That's a simple yes or no.
ASK THE QUESTION, SOMEBODY!!!! PLEASE !!!!!
Spazito
(50,349 posts)There seems to be an inordinate reluctance to ask it on the part of the media, not one has asked him what is a very simple, direct question, "Did you take advantage of the IRS amnesty program in 2009?
trailmonkee
(2,681 posts)Spazito
(50,349 posts)it was definitely the guest taking the Dem side of the debate. It was quite interesting, the topic was Friday's dump and whether it raised more questions and that is when the panel guest raised the amnesty issue, none of the others acknowledged it or questioned it. I am speculating but I think this is how it will come up over the next week or so, being referenced more and more whenever the tax return issue is raised.
trailmonkee
(2,681 posts)Egalitarian Thug
(12,448 posts)commonly employed against common people in this nation.
trailmonkee
(2,681 posts)Warren Stupidity
(48,181 posts)Harry is baiting him.
Mitt is a felon once removed.
w8liftinglady
(23,278 posts)think I'll Post this on DMN
trailmonkee
(2,681 posts)Spazito
(50,349 posts)the IRS amnesty. It is starting to be raised and as long as Romney refuses to release his previous years' tax returns it will become a bigger and bigger question mark, imo.