I lost my best friend tonight and it hurts a lot. ...

[aggiesal]

Last edited Sun Aug 23, 2020, 07:45 PM - Edit history (2)

She shared a post I found completely offensive and I called her on it.
Here is that post, let me know what you think.

THANKS for everyone's support!
It really was a very difficult decision.

**********************************************************************************************
I have often wondered about why Whites are racists, and no other race is......
Someone finally said it. How many are actually paying attention to this?
There are African Americans, Mexican Americans, Asian Americans, Arab Americans, etc.
And then there are just Americans.. You pass me on the street and sneer in my direction.
You call me 'White boy,' 'Cracker,' 'Honkey,' 'Whitey,' 'Caveman'... And that's OK..
You say that whites commit a lot of violence against you....
So why are the ghettos the most dangerous places to live?
You have the United Negro College Fund.
You have Martin Luther King Day.
You have Black History Month.
You have Cesar Chavez Day.
You have Yom Hashoah.
You have Ma'uled Al-Nabi.
You have the NAACP.
You have BET....
If we had WET (White Entertainment Television), we'd be racists.
If we had a White Pride Day, you would call us racists.
If we had White History Month, we'd be racists.
If we had any organization for only whites to 'advance' OUR lives, we'd be racists.
We have a Hispanic Chamber of Commerce, a Black Chamber of Commerce, and then we just have the plain Chamber of Commerce.
Wonder who pays for that??
A white woman could not be in the Miss Black American pageant, but any color can be in the Miss America pageant.
If we had a college fund that only gave white students scholarships... You know we'd be racists.
There are over 60 openly proclaimed Black Colleges in the US .
Yet if there were 'White colleges', that would be a racist college.
In the Million Man March, you believed that you were marching for your race and rights.
If we marched for our race and rights, you would call us racists.
You are proud to be black, brown, yellow and orange, and you're not afraid to announce it.
But when we announce our white pride, you call us racists.
You rob us, car jack us, and shoot at us.
But, when a white police officer shoots a black gang member or beats up a black drug dealer running from the law and posing a threat to society, you call him a racist.
I am proud...... But you call me a racist.
Why is it that only whites can be racists??
There is nothing improper about this e-mail.
Let's see which of you are proud enough to send it on.
I sadly don't think many will.
That's why we have LOST most of OUR RIGHTS in this country.
We won't stand up for ourselves!
BE PROUD TO BE WHITE!
It's not a crime YET.... But getting very close!
***************************************************************************************************

Did I do the right thing?
Am I seeing racism, where there isn't?

Thanks!

[dchill]

1. You're seeing racism where it IS.

[Lithos]

2. *sigh*

Blind to the entitlements and other things she accepts as normative.

Columbus Day, Thanksgiving, Christmas, Presidents' Day, Oktoberfest, St. Patrick's Day, Robert E. Lee's Holiday, Fourth of July, Memorial Day, Labor Day, etc. Most of these are heavily weighted in terms of the "White Experience".

[rurallib]

51. Not to mention that their "savior" has been transformed from a Palestinian

with dark hair and skin into a white Aryan type of person.

[Withywindle]

3. That's racist as hell

Straight-up white power crap. This is like a KKK manifesto.

[Duppers]

42. Exactly!

Totally agree.

[aggiesal]

7. What part is true? n/t

[aggiesal]

13. Black Colleges exist because ...

the white Universities mostly public universities especially in the south, since the 1860's, would not admit black students.

In 1862, the federal government's Morrill Act provided for land grant colleges in each state. Some educational institutions established under the Morrill Act in the North and West were open to blacks. But 17 states, mostly in the South, required their systems to be segregated and generally excluded black students from their land grant colleges. In response, Congress passed the second Morrill Act of 1890, also known as the Agricultural College Act of 1890, requiring states to establish a separate land grant college for blacks if blacks were being excluded from the existing land grant college.

[AmyStrange]

14. You're right

[womanofthehills]

26. My ex husband was teaching at U Of NC at Greensboro in mid 60's

And he had one of the early very few black students in his class. First week at school, someone called the police on Lily because she was walking down the street with a white guy. Then my husband went to a restaurant with some students after his class (I went along) and after an hour we realized we would not be served. Lily lasted one week and dropped out.

[TheBlackAdder]

46. My twin sisters went to UNCG in 1972 for just one semester and transferred out of that hell hole.

[essme]

56. I am the 4th generation of women in my family to graduate from UNCG

Greensboro was a weird mix of liberals and conservatives in the sixties and seventies.

My mother was in the same dorm with the first two African American ladies allowed in in the late 50's.

It is no longer a hell hole, but instead a thriving, multicultural institution that is well respected. But, yes- I would have noped right out of there in '72. I love it now; extremely progressive.

[TheBlackAdder]

69. We're from NJ. The cool section, not the NYers seen on that TV show. They were seen as Yankees.

.

And treated as such, even though they are some of the nicest and compassionate people you'd ever want to meet.

.

[essme]

70. 48 years ago :)

Seriously, it's not the same university. It changed.

Like I wrote, couldn't have paid me to be there in the late sixties, early seventies.

[womanofthehills]

19. Give me a break. White students can go to black colleges

In the 50’s and 60’s black students were not exactly welcomed at “white colleges” in the south.

[AmyStrange]

22. I stand corrected on that, and...

-

thank you.
==========

[lostnfound]

50. Circulating mindless propaganda. Whites are welcome at HBCU's

Somebody said this stuff is “true”. Pieces may be true on the surface but distorted lies at quarter inch deep.

[elleng]

5. FIRST thing I notice,

'why Whites are racists, and no other race is' is incorrect. I suspect that people of all if not most races have such tendencies.

and of course, we have NOT 'LOST most of OUR RIGHTS in this country.'

[aggiesal]

10. I don't like when people say white trash ...

whitie, honkey, ...

I would consider the person's saying that racist as well.
Yes I agree with your statement.

[Withywindle]

12. white trash is usually a classist slur, not a racist one

It's usually richer white people saying it about poor white people.

[aggiesal]

16. Yes, but when a minority says it, has racial overtones. n/t

[womanofthehills]

21. I know Trump people who fit the definition of white trash

Most of the Karen’s fit into this category.

[Grokenstein]

34. "White boy" gets thrown around a lot in my breakroom.

Never directed at me personally, but occasionally deliberately uttered within earshot. It's almost as if the stupid bastards want to get fired. I generally ignore them because, you know, grown-up--but yeah, they're just as bigoted as any Klansman. "White boy" isn't the only group for which they express hostility; b-words and f-words get tossed around a lot.

[NanceGreggs]

6. That is over-the-top racist. n/t

[mvd]

8. That is extremely racist

You did the right thing for sure!

The whole thing is completely oblivious to white privilege and history. Plus, there are some code words right out of the white power playbook.

[Garion_55]

9. lately im embarrassed to be white

a lot of us are not living up to our full potential for sure.

its the white blm protesters that give me any hope at all that white people as a group will finally move past their racism.

[7wo7rees]

15. Wow. So very sorry.

That is way too much.

Again, sorry.

[mvd]

18. Exactly

I basically said the short version of this and you expanded on it nicely.

[aggiesal]

20. She keeps saying that ...

she feels silenced.
I told her "So you want to post racist shit without being called on it. Not with me. I'm calling you on every racist BS you post."

She blocked me from her Facebook page.

[womanofthehills]

29. I was blocked by a friend who posted that mom's who got food stamps should be drug tested

She was posting this shit and I replied - so you want little kids whose mom might smoke a joint to starve.

[intrepidity]

23. very well said nt

[yonder]

32. Well said. You laid it out very well.

"Well, umm, WE DO have these things. Every month, going back centuries, is WHITE PRIDE MONTH."

[smirkymonkey]

47. +1000

[AmyStrange]

48. Thank you for throwing that in my face.

-

I don't think about shit like that much, unless it's thrown in my face.

I can see you sitting there, trying to be nice, and probably deleting some words, especially the good ones, because that's how I also feel right now.

Throw it in my face, give it to me straight, and please, don't be nice.

I can handle the truth, I hope, but never the less, critical analysis of how I think is NOT possible without brutal honesty, and that involves looking at BOTH sides of the question.

If you've read this far, thank you and in short.

I like the way you express yourself, especially calling out the bullshit.

It's refreshing.
================

[raccoon]

54. Great post. Nt

[yuiyoshida]

24. sigh ... (shakes my head..)

Some of them will never ever get it,... I get that. Try to teach them and they refuse.. You can't do anything with them but let them live in their puddle of misery and you go happily on your way.

in Japanese we have a term "Shouganai" しょうがない - it means nothing can be done. You just walk away from it, wiping your hands from the problem.

[herding cats]

27. That's ugly and extremely racist.

That you lost a friend over calling them out on something like this says so very much about who they are at the core of their being.

I'm deeply sorry for you! It's never easy to find out a person we cared about wasn't what we'd always thought.

[safeinOhio]

28. I'm not a fan of the term racist or race as it is used.

Prejudice or bigot works a little better for me. Race is not a valid term because it has no meaning. Their are more genetic variances within a so called race than between so called races.
I have often made my point to those that didn't like our last President because of the color of his skin. When I found a person telling me how bad President Obama was, I'd tell them that they didn't like him because they were racist, they didn't like him because he is half Irish and I'm half Irish too, so go screw yourself. I never heard a reply from any them.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

35. President Obama is my 7th cousin, once removed.

A common ancestor with the surname of Toot.

He's a Toot, I'm a Toot, We're a Toot, Tooty-Toot; Wouldn't you like to be a Tooty too?

[safeinOhio]

38. Go back far enough and we are all related.

My brother is into family history, I could care less. I'm sure my family has more skeletons in the closet than most. My parents moved as far away from their families as possible for a reason.

Years ago I heard about a guy that didn't know anything about his family history. He had a name he traced back to Norway so he went there to check it out. Went to a library to do some research and they person at the desk asked what his last name was. The clerk started to laugh when he told him. Turns out that was the name of a home for unwed mothers.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

41. Yep, all related with African origin.

I don't know the details, and don't need to, but we're all related to Hitler, Gandhi, Trump, Einstein, bin Laden, etc. at some point.

[Skittles]

30. that is the classic rant of the ALL LIVES MATTER folk

they just do.not.get.it. - nor do they want to

ditch her racist ass

[bobbieinok]

31. That is one incredible compilation of racist comments!

[mr_lebowski]

33. There are a small handful of valid points being made there ...

If you look at things in a shallow sort of way, there are in fact some realities about the situation that can seem like 'double-standards' ... if you start from the underlying premise in your head that minorities aren't REALLY actually disadvantaged unfairly (or if they are, it's not the fault of white people being racists) ... then you can come to some of these observations with some semblance of logic.

Nevertheless, in totality, the underlying racist attitude of the writer comes through loud and clear ... with lines like:

"So why are the ghettos the most dangerous places to live?"
"Wonder who pays for that??"
"You rob us, car jack us, and shoot at us."

Pretty much you can draw the conclusion that the overall point really is ... hey, we TRY to be nice, but all that you complain about? It's really you just getting what's coming to you because you're generally inferior and bad people.

[aggiesal]

63. "So why are the ghettos the most dangerous places to live?" ...

About this line, I felt that the writer is not color blind and believes that ghettos are my populated by POC, when in fact they are populated by mostly poor people regardless of race.

One of the extremely racial comments by the writer.

[canetoad]

36. Get OUTTA here!

Big Ellen shove in the chest.

If this person was your best friend, you are well rid of her.

[betsuni]

37. Classic Racist Greatest Hits. Only $39.99. Call now!

[torius]

39. Besides being racist, it's just dumb.

If she's, say, French and Scottish, she certainly could be in a French and Scottish club. Maybe not a school that only accepts people of French and Scottish descent, but she could go to a group where that culture is a focus, or a school run by those groups, or specializing in teaching those cultures, though those groups can't exclude by race--but would it make sense to? There have been POC throughout history in those countries and in French colonies who share those nationalities and cultures. She also could join some of those organizations she mentioned, some POC social and campus things welcome all people even if they are "for" a certain group. She's including Jewish organizations in her list of "exclusive" groups but she could join a Christian group, she could also convert to Judaism. Some branches Judaism "exclude" other Jews if they don't fulfill certain requirements, and some are more open, but no one's raising an uproar, same pattern in other religions as well.

There's a place for everyone.

She is welcome to celebrate Cesar Chavez Day, MLK day, and to donate to the United Negro College Fund. No, she can't join every organization out there, but someone not Scottish/French could be excluded from that hypothetical group. And she's welcome to join those as well as the Puerto Rico Day Parade, the St. Patrick's Day Parade, the Feast of San Gennaro, and the Caribbean Parade. Simply having ethnic activities doesn't make them racist, but she has decided that if they are POC activities then they are racist.

Every month is White History Month, every day is White Pride Day.

She's full of it. Glad you dumped her!

[aggiesal]

65. Her father is Italian ...

and her mother is German.
She has more Getman traits, by that I mean that she speaks German but not Italian.
She married a man with an Irish surname, and when she divorced, instead of returning to her italian maiden name she kept the Irish surname

[judesedit]

40. She's so accustomed to her white privilege she wouldn't see it

if she fell over it. If there had been equality all along, those organizations wouldn't have been necessary. Ask her how many white people she knows that have been lynched in this country or slaughtered and had their land stolen from them. Zero. From what I can see, she has little to be proud of. Btw, I'm white and ashamed of our history of white privilege. It's about time it's ended. Immigrants built this country and their primarily white owners/employers got rich off the blood, sweat and tears of these people. Most Americans are ignorant of the true history of this country, cause our schools teach propaganda instead of the truth. Very sad. Please read "The Dumbing Down of America".

[Duppers]

43. How long had you known this "best friend"?

It just that I've never been surprised by my good friends' attitudes. I screen out all repubs & racists. I try to be polite with them if they are neighbors but I don't call them friends.

[nuxvomica]

44. It's like saying why do bicycle riders get their own paths?

Why don't we motorized-vehicle drivers get car and motorcycle paths? Yet even this analogy is inadequate.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

45. I like it!

I might use that analogy in the future, in a mocking way, to coworkers who act like the OP's friend.

Maybe add a few things to it...

"Wearing their special helmets, acting like they're such do-gooders because they're not burning fossil fuels! Well maybe I'd like to drive my car down those paths and see nature too! And shoot at it!"

Edit: I guess that analogy works even better when there's bike paths along vehicle roads, which indeed exist.

[AmyStrange]

49. Did I do the right thing?

-

There's definitely racism in that note, no doubt, but did you do the right thing by cutting her off?

If it really bothered you a lot, and it would definitely have tainted your friendship, than you did the right thing.

But, if there was even a small, tiny little chance that you could possibly have change her mind, well then, you probably still did the right thing, except I would feel guilty for not even trying if there was any kind of chance, but that's me.

Anyway, thank you for sharing that, and also reading this far!
========

[treestar]

52. How is this person your best friend and only now you

notice this about her? Dialogue might be better. This is just one thing she did.

A lot of white people think this way, because they don't understand much about race history. So it seems like just feeling superior is not going to do much to change their views.

[aggiesal]

66. No, I noticed the subtle hints of racism in the past ...

and I'd point them out.
But she shared this post, which I thought was way over the top.
When I mentioned the racism, she defended it and would not discuss anything about it.
To quote her "It's my Facebook page, I can post what I want. You don't own me."
I think she missed the irony in her last statement.

[Atticus]

53. This type of crap is usually shouted through a white hood in the flickering light

of a flaming cross.

[blueinredohio]

55. Sadly, that sounds like my daughter.

Needless to say we love each other but don't interact a lot.

[Paladin]

57. That's racism, big-time.

And you did exactly the right thing in letting this person go---hold to that decision, don't go back on it. Until such people know there is a significant price to be paid for such ugly attitudes, things won't get any better.

[iamateacher]

58. I have been seeing a lot of those type of posts on Facebook

One I have seen repeatedly is where the post makes those types of statements, then makes the allegations that people in protests or Democrats are threatening them. No doubt picking up on Trump and the Repubs saying that Democrats are out to get them and their suburban neighborhood. .. I always feel like asking them who specifically is threatening them. All of these type posts are from older white women...
These posts are misinformed, racist, and say more about the poster than anything else...That the poster skipped history and civics class and has one dimensional thinking. And that they are driven by fear and guilt.

[LuckyCharms]

59. Listen up now, aggiesal

There are so many things wrong with that emailed screed, you would have to dissect each sentence and spend an hour explaining why each statement is a bad faith argument that does not come close to addressing what racism is about.

It's "whataboutism" at its finest.

It's an email that is copied and pasted by millions of racist fucks who believe that it strongly makes their point.

It is a litany of shallow thinking.

So to answer your question...yes, your friend is a goddamn racist.

Yes, you were correct in kicking your friend to the curb.

You should have no guilt. 99.99% of the time, what your gut tells you to do is the right thing to do.

[aggiesal]

67. I'm listening. Thanks for the support. n/t

[ck4829]

60. When it comes to "white pride", it's the lowest-hanging fruit acting like color is an accomplishment

I'm white, but I'm not going to associate with the degenerates like Dylann Roof, Patrick Crucius, Steve Hicks, James Alex Fields, Brenton Tarrant, Jeffrey Christian, etc.

People of other races do things DESPITE the circumstances.

"White pride" never comes with the rejection of these people. Why is that?

[FakeNoose]

61. I'm going to make a prediction: you haven't really lost your friend

I believe that she needs to think this over and gather some insights on her own. After taking a break and realizing a few things, she should contact you and apologize, or at least discuss it with you in a civil manner.

You have made your point, now it's time for your friend to consider the consequences. I'm guessing that it never occurred to her that you would block or unfriend her. Now that she knows how you feel, she will change a few things on her end. (She should start by deleting the offending post, but, whatever.)

This is one of the nasty insidious things about Facebook, in my opinion. People read all kinds of crap on FB and repost it on their own page without considering the consequences. I know I've been guilty of that, and now I'm very careful.

My suggestion is that you take a break and wait for your friend to contact you. Hopefully it won't happen on a public forum and you'll both be forgiving towards each other.

[aggiesal]

68. Image if someone forwarded this post to her employer? ...

You think they'd fire her or just send her to sensitivity training?

BTW, I'm not planning on doing this.

[LAS14]

62. Based on an experience I had, I would suggest the trying to reply rationally.

We were having lunch with an acquaintance ( a friend of my brother-in-law) during the run-up to the 2012 election. She's Republican, we three are Democrats. My brother-in-law tries to stay a way from discussing politics with her. He says "She's a lost cause." At one point she said she was against Obama-care "because I just don't want to see a lot of money lost to welfare fraud." The conversation petered out because no one responded.

A day later I sent her an e-mail. I said I'd been thinking about what she said, and that she's right that welfare fraud exists (I didn't get into whether it was significant or not), but that medical care has gotten so expensive, because of the advent of machines like catscan and MRI machines that no individual can be expected to pay ther own way "any longer." (I didn't tell her that I didn't think they should EVER have been expected to.) And that's why we need universal coverage.

She replied "You're right. I'm going to vote for Obama."

So it may be that your friend is not so much racist as ignorant of her own situation in life. Take away an understanding of the burdens born by POC and what she says makes logical sense. So maybe if you meet her as if she were making a rational, but uninformed argument, you might have some luck like I did.

Or maybe not. That's the only time such an encounter worked for me. But give it a try!

[Edwcraig]

64. Racial understanding means understanding that we all have primal racists tendencies

Last edited Sun Aug 23, 2020, 03:09 PM - Edit history (1)

http://democraticprinciples.blogspot.com/2012/04/we-are-all-racists.html

We do not need white pride we need white understanding of white oppression in the past and present which then drives the minority response. We need to mitigate our white prejudice with understanding that we have the power and we use that power to oppress minorities.

[Vinca]

72. I didn't click on this post earlier because I thought it was about someone's best friend

dying. In some ways this is worse than dying. You suddenly realize the person you thought was one thing is something totally different and totally horrible. You did the right thing.

[GeoWilliam750]

73. Deepest sympathy aggiesal

It hurts very badly when one finds out that the people we love have absorbed so much hate without really thinking about it. The same issue is in my family, and I could easily imagine most of them sending this without actually thinking through it. It is now getting to the point where I wonder whether I want to see them again - even though I love them very much.

They are all very bright, and mostly kind, people. Yet, they have spent so much time immersed in the RW media bubble, that they can no longer see through their anger and hatred.

[aggiesal]

74. At the top of her post she writes ...

I'm proud to be the best "me" I can be.

I told her this is not the "Best" you can be,.but this is the "Worst" that you are and nothing to be proud of.
Again, something else she didn't like from my message to her.