Watching Real Time right now....

[WCGreen]

The panelist are talking about how backward the Muslim world is, how barbaric it is to go after other religions and that is the difference between the west and the world of Islam.

But what they glossed over is it was only just a little over 100 years that Christians were killing the infidels all over the world, went out on Missionaries to convert the infidels.

Don't gloat about how modern we are when just a few hundred years ago we were burning witches at the stake or dunking them in water or driving people out of town who didn't believe in god...

[CaliforniaPeggy]

1. Exactly.

We aren't as far removed from these actions as we might like to think.

I suspect the veneer of civilization is just that......a veneer.

[ohheckyeah]

2. I don't think it's necessary

to always talk criticize the actions of the party of the first part before you can criticize the party of the 2nd part. No, 100 years over the course of history is not a long time, but it is more than a lifetime for most people.

[Zen Democrat]

3. You see one group of religious fanatics, you've seen 'em all.

Fundamentalist zealots all.

[demosincebirth]

4. I think he was talking about the present, not 100 years ago.

[WCGreen]

6. I understand that completely, but t be smug because we don't do that now...

is a little disingenuous.

It wasn't until the free flow of information gave people many different views and many different options that our society started to look inward. When life is brutal, the tendency grows for escapism and that first avenue of escape is usually centered around a Deity.

[demosincebirth]

21. Who's being smug?

[Smilo]

5. If many "Christian" missionaries had

their way today, they would still be killing infidels unless they converted. How inconvenient for them that "modern" laws are against taking another's life.

[Whisp]

7. good post, thanks. needed to be said. n/t

[Confusious]

8. Which Christians were killing infidels all over the world?

Maybe 300 years ago, but 100? 1912? WW1 was Christians killing Christians, if you want to put it that way. But it would be stupid, since WW1 was about nation states, not religion.

Once you get past the enlightenment, 1812, it was more about nation states then religion.

Please clarify your remarks.

PS. The wars between Islam and Christians wasn't always instigated by Christians. Most of the time, it was because Islam was forcibly conquering Christian territory.

[WCGreen]

9. Britain and France both invaded and ruled the middle east between 1800 and 1900...

A lot of it was to bring Christianity to the infidels. At least that was how they defended it back home.

The whole Stanley expedition was about opening Africa to Christianity.

And what about India where the British basically outlawed Hinduism all the way into the 20th century.

[Confusious]

10. Britian and france did not "invade the middle east"

Most of the middle east was ruled by the Ottoman empire at the time.

They invaded Egypt, yes, but that was competition for Empire, more then Religious reasons.

The French Campaign in Egypt and Syria (1798–1801) was Napoleon Bonaparte's campaign in the Orient, ostensibly to protect French trade interests, undermine Britain's access to India, and to establish scientific enterprise in the region. It was the primary purpose of the Mediterranean campaign of 1798, a series of naval engagements that included the capture of Malta.

Don't see "religion" there, unless it's a conspiracy.

Nice quote from Napoleon:

The peoples we will be living alongside are Muslims; their first article of faith is "There is no other god but God, and Mahomet is his prophet". Do not contradict them; treat them as you treated the Jews, the Italians; respect their muftis and their imams, as you respected their rabbis and bishops. Have the same tolerance for the ceremonies prescribed by the Quran, for their mosques, as you had for the convents, for the synagogues, for the religion of Moses and that of Jesus Christ. The Roman legions used to protect all religions. You will here find different customs to those of Europe, you must get accustomed to them. The people among whom we are going treat women differently to us; but in every country whoever violates one is a monster. Pillaging only enriches a small number of men; it dishonours us, it destroys our resources; it makes enemies of the people who it is in our interest to have as our friends. The first city we will encounter was built by Alexander [the Great]. We shall find at every step great remains worthy of exciting French emulation.

Africa, "white mans burden." To bring "civilization" to the "savages." more about gold and Empire, not Religion.

The British outlawed the practice of sati and a couple of other customs, not Hinduism itself. Look it up if you want to find out why. (Just as a side note, Hindu reformers instigated and supported those "things" being outlawed.)


Your examples are examples of competition for empire, not Religious.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

12. Obviously Slobo didn't get enough press. Not to mention current Nigeria:

http://news.yahoo.com/21-dead-religious-rioting-central-nigeria-115350915.html

[Confusious]

13. He meant 100 years ago, not right now.

and they hardly qualify as "all over the world."

I'm sure you can find all the "Hindu killing Muslim," "Muslim killing Hindu," "Muslim killing Christian" and "Christian killing Muslim" news you want these days.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

14. Don't hear shit from the Amish though.

Or even the Mennonites.

[unc70]

15. Small Amish hate crime problem in Ohio

It is unusual, but even the Amish.

[WCGreen]

16. They found the guy guilty...

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2012/09/amish_beard-cutting_trial_jury_1.html

The above link includes a links to more of the beard cutting incident.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

17. Beard cutting?

From a guy named "Mullet"???

[PossumSqueezins]

11. The only difference Between Xtian and Muslim extremists is....

Muslim extremists are willing to blow themselves up to make a point. Michele Bachmann only wants to blow up other people.

<img src=>

[pinboy3niner]

18. Impressive news from Benghazi, Libya...

Libyans storm militia building after giant protest in wake of attack on US consulate
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014240382


CNN: Decrying attack, protesters overtake Islamist group's HQ in Benghazi

STORY HIGHLIGHTS

• Protesters ask troops to take control of an Islamist group's HQ, a general says

• "I am sorry, America... This is the real Libya," a protester in Benghazi says

• Hundreds take over the Ansar al-Sharia group's headquarters without firing a shot

• That group is tied to an attack last week that left 4 Americans dead

From Arwa Damon, CNN
updated 1:31 AM EDT, Sat September 22, 2012

Benghazi, Libya (CNN) -- Ten days after four Americans were killed in their Libyan city, hundreds marched in Benghazi and took over the headquarters of a radical Islamist group tied to the attack.

Thousands of protesters had taken to the street earlier Friday, loudly declaring that they -- and not those behind last week's deadly attack -- represent the real sentiments of the Libyan people.

"I am sorry, America," one man said. "This is the real Libya."

...


VIDEO at link:
http://www.cnn.com/2012/09/21/world/africa/libya-benghazi-counter-protest/index.html?hpt=hp_t3

[phascismisphun]

19. Go to the Southern parts of this country

and tell me how it is different than the ME.

Having been to both the Middle East (Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Afghanistan, UAE, just to name a few) and all the states in the south, I can tell you there is very little difference between the places except one place is Islamic and one is Christian.

Both places are run by backwards assed people who want to run their lives and lives of others according to books of mythology.

[justiceischeap]

20. US religious right presses anti-gay laws in Africa

http://news.yahoo.com/us-religious-presses-anti-gay-laws-africa-125113762.html

Conservative U.S. Christian groups are setting up fronts in Africa to fight for anti-gay and anti-abortion legislation to promote their fundamentalist convictions, a report by a Boston research group said Tuesday.

It accuses evangelical stars such as Pat Robertson and Rick Warren as well as Catholic and Mormon groups of setting up institutions and campaigns in Africa that are "fanning the flames of the culture wars over homosexuality and abortion by backing prominent African campaigners and political leaders."