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CTyankee

(63,912 posts)
Tue Jul 21, 2020, 11:54 AM Jul 2020

Another English lesson for you, from my experience as an ESOL tutor:

How can something be "holy" and "shit" at the same time, as in the expression "Holy shit!"

I was asked this by a speaker from China who had superb English skills (and was a scientist at Yale).

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Another English lesson for you, from my experience as an ESOL tutor: (Original Post) CTyankee Jul 2020 OP
Yep. FM123 Jul 2020 #1
That is a good explanation: something on the face of it cannot exist, therefore an abomination not CTyankee Jul 2020 #4
When I first heard it, it was a satirical reference to Batman & Robin blogslut Jul 2020 #2
It is the contradiction in meanings that makes the expression effective. MineralMan Jul 2020 #3
Dang, beat me to it - and said it much more eloquently (and usefully) than I would have. HotTeaBag Jul 2020 #6
"if there were any samples of Jesus's excrement" Pantagruel Jul 2020 #12
LOL! MineralMan Jul 2020 #14
That's the cat's pajamas! central scrutinizer Jul 2020 #18
well, it is an expression of amazement Orangepeel Jul 2020 #5
but here I can see driving on a parkway (observing parks in the vicinity of the roadway) and CTyankee Jul 2020 #9
The comedian Gallagher did a wonderful skit on the weird parts of english.. mitch96 Jul 2020 #15
This message was self-deleted by its author marie999 Jul 2020 #20
Gallagher! Orangepeel Jul 2020 #21
I have never written or said together the two words mentioned above. Polly Hennessey Jul 2020 #7
Holy Cow ConstanceCee Jul 2020 #8
there are sacred cows in India, right? CTyankee Jul 2020 #11
I've been saying it a lot since since trup was elected, wendyb-NC Jul 2020 #10
That makes sense to me, as in "how can this possibly BE?" CTyankee Jul 2020 #13
Yeah. That's pretty awful. LakeArenal Jul 2020 #16
Because we can't tell the difference between a sacrament and an excrement. nt Xipe Totec Jul 2020 #17
Why is "now then" an expression? muriel_volestrangler Jul 2020 #19
Good One! ProfessorGAC Jul 2020 #24
I looked at some resources online; can't find an explanation, but it's old muriel_volestrangler Jul 2020 #25
So, There's Etymology, But... ProfessorGAC Jul 2020 #26
Reminds me of this comedian's bit: Tommy_Carcetti Jul 2020 #22
Obviously when the Pope poops whistler162 Jul 2020 #23

CTyankee

(63,912 posts)
4. That is a good explanation: something on the face of it cannot exist, therefore an abomination not
Tue Jul 21, 2020, 12:01 PM
Jul 2020

to be tolerated.

MineralMan

(146,329 posts)
3. It is the contradiction in meanings that makes the expression effective.
Tue Jul 21, 2020, 12:00 PM
Jul 2020

"Christ on a crutch!" is a similar contradictory expression.

English is full of such expressions. Looked at by examining the individual words, they don't seem to make much sense. But taken as a whole, the contradiction is part of the strength of the expression.

A little sacrilege can be very useful, really, in getting the point across that what you said is really serious.

On the other hand, if there were any samples of Jesus's excrement, there would be holy relics containing microscopic amounts of it, you can be sure.

Orangepeel

(13,933 posts)
5. well, it is an expression of amazement
Tue Jul 21, 2020, 12:01 PM
Jul 2020

I have no idea about the etymology, but it makes more sense than why we drive on a parkway and park on a driveway!

CTyankee

(63,912 posts)
9. but here I can see driving on a parkway (observing parks in the vicinity of the roadway) and
Tue Jul 21, 2020, 12:04 PM
Jul 2020

"park" which is also a verb, hence "Park in the driveway" wherein "driveway" is a noun.

Makes perfect sense to me.

mitch96

(13,924 posts)
15. The comedian Gallagher did a wonderful skit on the weird parts of english..
Tue Jul 21, 2020, 12:50 PM
Jul 2020

Gallagher and English language
Why do we park on a driveway and drive on a parkway? Why is it a pair of panties but only a bra? Ship things by truck?
I can see why learning engrish is zo hard.....
m

Response to mitch96 (Reply #15)

Polly Hennessey

(6,804 posts)
7. I have never written or said together the two words mentioned above.
Tue Jul 21, 2020, 12:04 PM
Jul 2020

He is not a President, he is only a tRump. My question is: do “holy and moly” belong together? 🧏🏻?♀️

ConstanceCee

(314 posts)
8. Holy Cow
Tue Jul 21, 2020, 12:04 PM
Jul 2020

It's a stronger version of "Holy cow!" Can a cow be holy? Sweep it up with all the other expressions that can't be explained.

wendyb-NC

(3,330 posts)
10. I've been saying it a lot since since trup was elected,
Tue Jul 21, 2020, 12:05 PM
Jul 2020

and especially since the swearing in. I still do.

muriel_volestrangler

(101,361 posts)
19. Why is "now then" an expression?
Tue Jul 21, 2020, 02:23 PM
Jul 2020

It's a tautology (ed: no, it's not. I meant oxymoron - it contains two opposites). It means almost nothing - just a verbal throat-clearing. Some people just say "now, ..." - which at least might be the idea that it's a slight change of subject - "now (I'm going to talk about this: ) ...". But how did "then" creep in?

muriel_volestrangler

(101,361 posts)
25. I looked at some resources online; can't find an explanation, but it's old
Tue Jul 21, 2020, 05:20 PM
Jul 2020

They also reminded me it can be an admonition, entirely on its own - "Now then!". Still doesn't make any sense.

Early uses include Wycliffe's Bible translation into English in 1382 - " Now þanne go & smyt Amalech..ne spare þou to hym" (King James version "Now go and smite Amalek ... and spare them not" ), and Chaucer's Canterbury Tales in 1395 "Now thanne put thyn hand doun my bak..and grope wel bihynde. Bynethe my buttok ..." (which also provides the earliest use of "fart&quot .

The earliest use the OED for has "to introduce a command" is from 1150 - something called "The Blickling Homilies": "Nu þonne aris & gang on ða ceastre to Matheum þinum breþer.".

For "introducing an important or noteworthy point in an argument or proof", the OED traces it back to King Alfred, late 9th century "Nu ðonne,..nu is to ongietanne æt hu micelre scylde ða beoð befangne."

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