General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWhat is the benefit of wearing masks that are not medical masks?
Do they offer partial protection from spreading the virus? From catching it?
soothsayer
(38,601 posts)Thomas Hurt
(13,903 posts)dawg
(10,624 posts)the virus. They also provide some protection against catching it, but not nearly so much as surgical masks or especially N95.
Moostache
(9,897 posts)Especially if they gain false sense of security for it.
People who walk around with the mask exposing their nose?
People with masks on their chin?
Morons with holes cut in the center of their mask?
These people do not stay 6-12 feet apart.
These people do not regularly wash their hands.
These people end up infecting others.
These people are worth less than nothing to me.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)Moostache
(9,897 posts)I have seen too many people in public that have a mask half-on and stop maintaining distance; or standing around each other about 3 feet apart talking while lowering or taking off the mask. It's worse than nothing at that point because the mask no longer is effective AND they are acting as if they are protected.
False security leads to poorer choices and greater risk without realizing it...worse than nothing? Maybe overstated...but still a huge problem added to the ones we already face.
Doremus
(7,261 posts)I've never seen a person in a mask suddenly stop distancing. Just the opposite. The people wearing masks are more aware of the science vs. those without.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)RiF
(48 posts)An answer that answers so many questions/observations
mahina
(17,693 posts)Pull it down so that theyre breathing right in to the space unfiltered, its worse than nothing.
They got past the security guard and entered with it on and then cheated to be able to potentially infect others without having their own activities affected. Worse than nothing.
StarfishSaver
(18,486 posts)The fact that someone gets past a security guard with a mask and then takes it off does not mean that wearing a mask "is worse than nothing."
That's like saying the fact that some men put on a condom before having sex but take it off during the act means that condoms are worse than non-protected sex.
RockRaven
(14,990 posts)Ideally all members of the public would always choose to do something to improve the protection of themselves and others while not impacting medical supply availability for care providers.
But assholes abound, so they're not.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,819 posts)which is a whole lot better than nothing. The masks prevent the wearer from spreading it more than they protect from other people, but there is still some protection. The lack of a mask where masks are mandated or recommended also helps identify selfish assholes.
ProfessorGAC
(65,138 posts)...was for the wearer in the close presence of someone infected.
One of the hospital groups had a graphic showing the use of any face covering was 95% if one was infected, but both were covered.
If in the presence of an infected person, any face covering was 60%.
If it was the infected person was the wearer, I think it was 75%.
It was here on GD. A DUer received an email from their doctor.
I looked for it, but no luck.
bleedingulcers
(44 posts)Put on a mask, sit 6 feet from a burning candle. Try to blow it out.
There. That's what a mask does....
PSPS
(13,613 posts)Even an inexpensive cloth mask will make it impossible to blow out a candle one foot away. As others have pointed out, a mask's primary purpose is to keep you from infecting others by blocking most, maybe even almost all, of the droplets from your lungs which are present in everyone's exhaled breath. Those it doesn't catch have their velocity reduced so much that they will travel a few inches at most. Most masks are ineffective in the other direction because they're not fine enough to catch the small Covid virus.
Since people can be infected and contagious without knowing it, it's important that everyone wear one. If you do it regularly, you quickly adapt and become used to it.
frazzled
(18,402 posts)much less from 6 feet away, even without a mask? I dont think I could. Maybe a foot, but it would take quite a few tries, I bet
Im not questioning the efficacy of masks, and we are well stocked with both cloth and good surgical ones. Im just wondering about the candle test. I dont think my blowing power (no jokes, please) is that bad, but sometimes the candle wont blow out on the first try when Im four inches from it. Maybe its the candles.
RobinA
(9,894 posts)is propaganda to me until someone tells me what it has to do with spreading virus. Its one of those things that SOUNDS good, but I need to hear how it actually works. If it works.
Ms. Toad
(34,086 posts)RobinA
(9,894 posts)Not an N95. Take a whiff of something. Smell that smell? Thats how effective a mask is. Molecules come right through it.
Ask someone how blowing out a candle relates to the passage of virus RNA.
mucifer
(23,559 posts)and we wear face shields, too. Just a little FYI
milestogo
(16,829 posts)I see that cloth masks are becoming a "fashion" now, which I think is good. But it may also provide a false sense of security.
LanternWaste
(37,748 posts)"But it may also provide a false sense of security."
Nevilledog
(51,181 posts)https://www.businessinsider.com/the-materials-that-filter-particles-best-in-homemade-masks-testing-2020-4
fierywoman
(7,688 posts)Nevilledog
(51,181 posts)Lots of easy mask patterns on Pinterest with pockets for filters. I might actually learn to sew....lol
fierywoman
(7,688 posts)on youtube.
Nevilledog
(51,181 posts)fierywoman
(7,688 posts)find someone you know who knows how to use a sewing machine and get them to show you how (while the weather is still nice and you can do it on someone's porch or patio!)
Nevilledog
(51,181 posts)Ms. Toad
(34,086 posts)They are an extremely effective tool for reduction of transmission that any scientist or medical personnel recognized back in January or February.
It is the Republicans/science deniers who believe they are a fashion statement (i.e. announcing political affiliation).
milestogo
(16,829 posts)I see that clothing manufacturers are making them now, and making them attractive. Making masks into fashion accessories increases the likelihood that lots of people will wear them.
Cairycat
(1,706 posts)coordinated with her outfit. She's a sharp dresser anyway, and often makes statements with her clothing.
Ms. Toad
(34,086 posts)a "fashion" has a very different connotation that describing as a functional object also being fashionable, especially when it is combined with a suggestion that waearing a mask gives false sense of security (which suggests you don't really think they work).
milestogo
(16,829 posts)I don't know why some DUers want to start an argument over every single word that is posted. Its really tiresome.
Ms. Toad
(34,086 posts)brush
(53,830 posts)and also block some percentage of what one breathes in. If everyone wears them a significant percent of droplets and even aerosolized emissions can be blocked. The idea of course being to get in whatever venue you are in, do your business and get out as it's now understood that aerosolized emissions can stay airborne for quite a while in interior spaces. They don't drop to the floor as larger emission particles do, which is the theory of how social distancing works.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)The other day in a FL (!) Walmart with a bunch of unmasked spreaders, while earnestly wearing two non-medical folded-paper masks, with knots in the ear loops to hold them pretty snug to my face, I still found myself absently scratching the corner of my eye where it itched. Maybe augment with ski mittens.
LisaL
(44,974 posts)Or maybe a face shield on top of mask. Covid can get in through the eyes.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)for the head with I think 3 plastic shields, for $5. I bought one but neither of us have used it so far.
According to one source I heard, 1 out of 3 people are now testing positive here in FL, and stores that in March were providing spray and wipes have slacked off. So we're eliminating all unnecessary entries into stores themselves while we're still here. Walmart's been a help with its broad range of merchandise. Not everything can be purchased for pickup, but a lot can. Paint brushes and sandpaper last time.
But for those times I need to enter a store, when I remember I take a few paper towels soaked in antiseptic and if using a cart wrap them around the handle so my hands return to them as I go. They stay wet much longer than wipes, and I can use them to punch in my code at checkout and wipe cards and such down at that point everyone's funneled through.
misanthrope
(7,421 posts)Hortensis
(58,785 posts)Our youngest grandson has cloth masks with action figures and ravenous dinosaurs, but the older ones are too cool.
LisaL
(44,974 posts)brush
(53,830 posts)You never know when an anti-mask idiot will go on a rant.
Hortensis
(58,785 posts)and I need to remember to start using them every time. Such a nuisance, but they can be removed on opening the car, leaving clean hands for inside.
People going on rants don't worry me because I haven't seen any. It's the dumb and happy ones everywhere who do. And I told the local Winn-Dixie I wouldn't be returning due to their abysmally negligent practices -- including allowing a checker to wear her mask pulled below her nose, which to my mind is a passive-aggressive version of spitting at people.
MrsMatt
(1,660 posts)if you know how to properly take them off to avoid contamination (first aid training).
Most people do not have that knowledge, so it is better to forgo gloves and just wash/sanitize hands frequently.
brush
(53,830 posts)I wear them because you never know who picked up and put back the item you selected for your shopping basket. Why take the chance, even if it's a small one, by touching an item with a bare hand someone else coughed on?
LisaL
(44,974 posts)MrsMatt
(1,660 posts)and get back to me.
LisaL
(44,974 posts)Here, look, there is a handy poster on proper glove removal technique.
https://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/pdf/poster-how-to-remove-gloves.pdf
MrsMatt
(1,660 posts)I've been certified for First Aid and CPR for the past 14 years (training every two years) and as with any skill, it takes practice.
LisaL
(44,974 posts)moonscape
(4,673 posts)if the way I look at it is ineffective or wrong.
I think of the virus as bright red wet paint and once on the gloves how to avoid getting any of that paint on me. Makes me fairly meticulous in how I take them off and dispose of them. Not hard if attentive and logical.
AleksS
(1,665 posts)This picture sums it up well:
MichMan
(11,959 posts)Whether you should do it is another story.
Ms. Toad
(34,086 posts)handmade34
(22,757 posts)Kali
(55,019 posts)good graphic that didn't paste - figure 5
ok lets try this -
blogslut
(38,007 posts)I gave up trying to get the graphic from that article to post.
sagesnow
(2,824 posts)Greybnk48
(10,171 posts)Fiendish Thingy
(15,651 posts)It helps block the exhalation of viral droplets.
They arent very good at protecting the wearer from close contact with others who dont wear masks.
LisaL
(44,974 posts)Limited protection from catching the virus.
catrose
(5,071 posts)offers you some from theirs.
I make cloth masks with a filter pocket, and inserting an unwoven filter offers more protection to you from others' spewing.
Probably the three filters I inserted before going to vote were too much; I really did have trouble breathing. But I live in a Stage 4 area with idiots in charge.
ProudMNDemocrat
(16,786 posts)I wear my mask at all times in public places. I make sure to keep plenty of space between me and others. I use hand sanitizer at public places as well.
Even when on walks, I will put it on if people come near me and they are quick to back away.
Anyone who gives me a hard time about wearing a mask, even around immediate family, I let them know I do not want to get this and I do not know who they have been around. They know the protocols I am following to protect them.
MyMission
(1,850 posts)at protecting the wearer from being infected by particles, and almost as good as medical grade. My wearing a single ply will protect others from me, but 3 plies protect me better, so that's what I try to wear.
Some fabric and filters have electrostatic properties that capture the virus. It's a somewhat new science and technology here, and different studies are reported regularly.
Part cotton, part man-made fabrics seem to be the latest suggestion.
Also, having a mask that one can insert some type of filter, like a tissue, seem to be better. I just read that coffee filters are Not a good mask filter, as they can obstruct airflow.
Also, masks that have a breathing port or hole are not as effective because they let germs in and out.
LisaL
(44,974 posts)filtered. It shouldn't get germs in, only out. Which of course isn't desirable in a pandemic.
quickesst
(6,280 posts)..... constructed from spunbond PP hand-woven material. Had to look it up for more info.
The Nonwovens Institute (NWI) at North Carolina State University is proactively responding to the COVID-19 pandemic. With the full support of NC State, NWI is dedicating its meltblown and spunbond nonwoven making facilities and expertise to produce specially designed fabrics that can be delivered to U.S. manufacturers to assemble face masks.
More at:
https://news.ncsu.edu/2020/04/a-necessary-filter/
Google benefits of spunbond non-woven masks for even more information.
womanofthehills
(8,751 posts)Can make a big difference. A few or thousands. If I go somewhere people are wearing fewer masks, I might put my cloth mask over my N95. In NM there is a $100 fine for not wearing a mask around others. Albuquerque is great because most stores will not let you in without a mask ..... but, small rural towns like where I live- half not masked. Our mayor is a Dem and is on Facebook every day pleading with people to wear masks - He doesnt want our police to fine people but he said he is going to have to start.
Polybius
(15,467 posts)Makes me look like a Cobra. Loved GI Joe in the 80's!
Nictuku
(3,617 posts)Unfortunately it is on facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/PBSDigitalStudios/videos/266057788032983/
Ms. Toad
(34,086 posts)The CDC and WHO were both wrong to discourage mask use early on, since they encouraged a false belief that masks were worthless that they are now fighting to claw back. Officials from both entities have admitted, to varying degrees, that the incorrect information was conveyed for non-scientific reasons (like not having enough masks avalable for health care workers; like American resistance).
https://www.ucdavis.edu/coronavirus/news/your-mask-cuts-own-risk-65-percent/
https://www.sciencetimes.com/articles/25410/20200421/austria-90-drop-coronavirus-cases-requiring-people-wear-face-masks.htm
Masks wont offer any protection for the person wearing one
This is a more complicated one, rooted in truth. The rationale for wearing a mask in the midst of the pandemic is that it will act as a barrier to prevent respiratory droplets from the mouth and nose from dispersing and transmitting the virus to others. Thats considered to be the main way the virus spreads.
But isnt true 100% that the mask-wearer themselves doesnt receive any protection from it, Chin-Hong said. You will get some amount of protection from wearing a mask because its just like plexiglass. It will block droplets from hitting your nose or mouth.
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/will-wearing-a-face-mask-protect-you-from-covid-19-its-complicated-here-are-the-5-biggest-mask-myths-2020-07-09
Protecting others from your asymptomatic self:
https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2020/06/417906/still-confused-about-masks-heres-science-behind-how-face-masks-prevent
A HERETIC I AM
(24,376 posts)(Typed without looking through the whole thread, so I apologize if I am being redundant)
Would you turn it down?
Something is better than nothing.
Covering ones face reduces the frequency of transmission, full stop. No matter the efficacy, any reduction helps the effort.
Caliman73
(11,744 posts)Research has shown that wearing a cloth covering over your mouth and nose limits the range of droplets fairly dramatically. The more layers of protection, the better, but even a bandanna over the mouth and nose can be effective.
Malikshah
(4,818 posts)diva77
(7,652 posts)Patient Care
June 26, 2020
Still Confused About Masks? Heres the Science Behind How Face Masks Prevent Coronavirus
By Nina Bai
SNIP
Both the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) and the World Health Organization now recommend cloth masks for the general public, but earlier in the pandemic, both organizations recommended just the opposite. These shifting guidelines may have sowed confusion among the public about the utility of masks.
But health experts say the evidence is clear that masks can help prevent the spread of COVID-19 and that the more people wearing masks, the better.
We talked to UC San Francisco epidemiologist George Rutherford, MD, and infectious disease specialist Peter Chin-Hong, MD, about the CDCs reversal on mask-wearing, the current science on how masks work, and what to consider when choosing a mask.
SNIP
What evidence do we have that wearing a mask is effective in preventing COVID-19?
There are several strands of evidence supporting the efficacy of masks.
One category of evidence comes from laboratory studies of respiratory droplets and the ability of various masks to block them. An experiment using high-speed video found that hundreds of droplets ranging from 20 to 500 micrometers were generated when saying a simple phrase, but that nearly all these droplets were blocked when the mouth was covered by a damp washcloth. Another study of people who had influenza or the common cold found that wearing a surgical mask significantly reduced the amount of these respiratory viruses emitted in droplets and aerosols.
But the strongest evidence in favor of masks come from studies of real-world scenarios. The most important thing are the epidemiologic data, said Rutherford. Because it would be unethical to assign people to not wear a mask during a pandemic, the epidemiological evidence has come from so-called experiments of nature.
A recent study published in Health Affairs, for example, compared the COVID-19 growth rate before and after mask mandates in 15 states and the District of Columbia. It found that mask mandates led to a slowdown in daily COVID-19 growth rate, which became more apparent over time. The first five days after a mandate, the daily growth rate slowed by 0.9 percentage-points compared to the five days prior to the mandate; at three weeks, the daily growth rate had slowed by 2 percentage-points.
Another study looked at coronavirus deaths across 198 countries and found that those with cultural norms or government policies favoring mask-wearing had lower death rates.
Two compelling case reports also suggest that masks can prevent transmission in high-risk scenarios, said Chin-Hong and Rutherford. In one case, a man flew from China to Toronto and subsequently tested positive for COVID-19. He had a dry cough and wore a mask on the flight, and all 25 people closest to him on the flight tested negative for COVID-19. In another case, in late May, two hair stylists in Missouri had close contact with 140 clients while sick with COVID-19. Everyone wore a mask and none of the clients tested positive.
Do masks protect the people wearing them or the people around them?
I think theres enough evidence to say that the best benefit is for people who have COVID-19 to protect them from giving COVID-19 to other people, but youre still going to get a benefit from wearing a mask if you dont have COVID-19, said Chin-Hong.
Masks may be more effective as a source control because they can prevent larger expelled droplets from evaporating into smaller droplets that can travel farther.
Another factor to remember, noted Rutherford, is that you could still catch the virus through the membranes in your eyes, a risk that masking does not eliminate.
How many people need to wear masks to reduce community transmission?
What you want is 100 percent of people to wear masks, but youll settle for 80 percent, said Rutherford. In one simulation, researchers predicted that 80 percent of the population wearing masks would do more to reduce COVID-19 spread than a strict lockdown.
The latest forecast from the Institute of Health Metrics and Evaluation suggests that 33,000 deaths could be avoided by October 1 if 95 percent of people wore masks in public.
Even if you live in a community where few people wear masks, you would still reduce your own chances of catching the virus by wearing one, said Chin-Hong and Rutherford.
Does the type of mask matter?
Studies have compared various mask materials, but for the general public, the most important consideration may be comfort. The best mask is one you can wear comfortably and consistently, said Chin-Hong. N95 respirators are only necessary in medical situations such as intubation. Surgical masks are generally more protective than cloth masks, and some people find them lighter and more comfortable to wear.
The bottom line is that any mask that covers the nose and mouth will be of benefit.
SNIP
Buckeye_Democrat
(14,856 posts)Some masks are better than others, of course, but any face covering is better than nothing to at least block the bigger droplets which generally hold more virus particles compared to the aerosols.
Viral load plays a big role in getting infected or not.
The idea that your face covering only protects others is false, and I wish it wasn't so widespread. It makes it less likely that the selfish Trump-voting assholes will wear them, and that ends up hurting everyone in the long run.