General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsNeed financial expertise - please. Proceeds from house sale.
My dad died in 2011. Recently, my 98 yr old mom moved near me (finally), and her house sold. 5 hours on the market, buyer offered $11,000 over asking price. In 2007, my parents put the house in trust to me to protect assets from Medicaid in case there were nursing home stays in the future. Happily, there were not. I also have durable power of attorney.
When the check arrived from the law office, it was made out to the trust, not to me, the trustee, nor to my mom. The law office says this is the only way they can do it. Our bank wants to know if I want to open a trust account, or a tax ID account. They were not able to tell me much about the advantages and disadvantages of these types of accounts.
We need something liquid that I can write checks from to pay my mom's living expenses that are not covered by her income, to be able to give some to my sons, her only 2 and totally adored grandsons, and to use for improving a rental property she and I co-own.
I know there are all many of experts her on DU, in just about any field one could think of. I am in pediatrics, and this is totally not my area of knowledge. I await your input.
Phoenix61
(17,006 posts)same as any other checking account. Think of a trust as a person. Typically, they are revocable until the people who create them die and then the person they designated becomes the trustee. If your mom is the trustee she needs to go to the bank with the trust papers and open an account in the name of the trust. DO.NOT let the normal bank flunkie attempt this. You want someone familiar with trust accounts. She should be able to put you as a signee on the trust account. Your power of attorney is useless for a trust. I learned all of this the hard way.
The trust should be using your moms social as taxes will be paid on her income tax return.
If it all seems too daunting, talk to a tax attorney.
My CPA is also an attorney. His advice is impeccable.
Phoenix61
(17,006 posts)Definitely dont want to trust the person at the bank. I ended up dealing with only the VP at the bank because the underlings screwed things up so badly.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,735 posts)It's not especially complicated (you have to do the same thing for an estate if you're the executor in order to pay the estate's last expenses). Go to a bank officer with the trust documents and have him/her open a checking account in the name of the trust, and then the trustee can use the account to pay bills and expenses of the trust. The trustee would probably sign them as "Jane Doe, Trustee." The particulars will have to be based on what's in the trust document, though.
lastlib
(23,248 posts)GO TO ONE THAT DOES! There is a level of expertise required here that most small banks don't have.
Phoenix is correct--the power of attorney is meaningless; the trust documents are controlling. If you are transacting business for the trust, then you should probably be named in the trust document as a co-trustee, or otherwise named in it as having that capacity. If you aren't listed as having that capacity, then a bank is not going to deal with you. You would need to have the trust agreement amended to include you.
Mom's SSN should be used for the tax ID number.
Phoenix61
(17,006 posts)Wells-Fargo. Moms SSN check was going into the account so i was stuck with it.
OriginalGeek
(12,132 posts)I was on his bank account and and the executor of his estate and all the money from life insurance payouts and everything went to the "estate of OG's Grandpa" account. I had a check book and a debit card for the account and paid for funeral expenses and settling the very few things he still had open.
I really didn't do much - grandpa was such a great guy he made provisions for everything beforehand and I hardly even had to think. I just had to sign the papers that disbursed the proper amounts to my younger brothers and he left me the house and his cars so we didn't have to sell any of that.
I'm not sure how much that helps you but if you have any questions I'll be happy to try and remember lol. It's been a few years now.
Crazyleftie
(458 posts)but the trust had my tax ID as one of the trustees. In any case it is an inheritance and unless you have a fortune (i don't kn ow what the limits are, but if you are under it it is not taxable in any case), so it should not matter whether it is a trust ID or yours, unless you prepared taxes separately for the trust, which I did not because it had my tax ID. Talk to an accountant; I suspect you may want to dissolve the trust if it revocable and distribute the proceeds as inheritances however you wish
CincyDem
(6,363 posts)Shouldnt be an issue with the bank. Easiest way.
euphorb
(279 posts)The answer to your questions will depend in significant part on the specific language of the trust. I'm sure none of the previous commenters on this thread have seen the trust. It also depends on other specifics of your situation. Get an attorney. DU is not the place to seek legal advice.
brush
(53,788 posts)is asking in not a complex legal/financial question. It can be handled by a bank officer without having to pay for an attorney. Been there, done that.
3catwoman3
(24,007 posts)...of all kinds, and DUers generally seem happy to share their expertise/experience. Pet questions, technology questions, photography questions, health questions, cooking questions, gardening questions, etc, etc.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)and it would be worth it to schedule an appointment with an attorney to find out how to handle this.
3catwoman3
(24,007 posts)...give free advice any time we are on call after hours.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)3catwoman3
(24,007 posts)I would not advise someone who was not a member of our practice.
We talk to worried parents who are not sure their child's problem can wait until morning when the office is open again. Pediatric offices have done this forever.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)I just think when you're dealing with a substantial sum, like you are with the proceeds from a house sale, that it's worth it to pay an attorney for an hour or two of her time.
3catwoman3
(24,007 posts)I will be at no risk of dying if inappropriately advised on this matter. If I give bad health care advice to someone, that could happen.
My hope was for some informed suggestions as to the most prudent path to choose so as to not waste a lot of time going down the wrong path. My husband has, just this evening, discussed this with our accountant/ tax guy. I thought it would be interesting to see what DUers had to offer while waiting for the accountant conversation. No one needed to respond who did not wish to, and a few people were kind enough to do so and were not bothered by my asking.
I had no intent to be a bother to you, or anyone else.
Ms. Toad
(34,075 posts)Do this NOW, before you do anything else.
Since your mom is on Medicaid, this not something to play around with. Medicaid, in some states, specializes in busting trusts to repay the money it spent on the recipient's behalf. And since you want to use money from the sale of the house to help your mom pay for things that Medicaid won't, they will likely look at it very suspiciously.
There are ways to handle this, but a lot of this needs to be set up in advance (preferably before the sale of property) - so I hope the 2007 attorney knew what they were doing. If not, it may be too late.
ETA: I'm an attorney who has done some special needs trusts work with the law in two states, and I have a sister-in-law who specializes in busting trusts. I would not touch this with a 10-foot pole.
3catwoman3
(24,007 posts)Medicare, yes.
The trust was established by a firm specializing in elder law.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)on how to handle it now?
3catwoman3
(24,007 posts)...there was no way I wanted her driving 90 miles away at her age to go to them. I live in a different state, 700 miles away.
pnwmom
(108,980 posts)was a phone and a fax machine.
You're right, your mother she shouldn't drive there. You could try phoning a non-local office of the same law firm and ask them what a phone consultation would cost. Lots of lawyers don't charge anything for the initial half hour.
Ms. Toad
(34,075 posts)I've just run into so many people who are trying to keep family assets - who use language similar to what you did.
I'd still go back to that firm and have them advise you.
ETA: I see the firm has closed. You still need final aproval from an attorney in the state where the property is. Laws vary considerably from state to state.
Mr. Ected
(9,670 posts)By a deed of conveyance. The trust agreement contains all the rules and conditions of the trust and names the grantor, trustee and beneficiary. Once signed and sealed, a legal entity is created. To find the answers to your questions, read the trust. The named trustee or successor trustee may act on behalf of the trust and obtain an EIN (tax ID number). Go to the bank with the trust agreement and the tax ID number and you can open a bank account on behalf of the trust, and be able to write the checks you need to write....as long as the trust agreement authorizes it.
By the way, the law firm probably should have made the check out to -------------------, Trustee of the __________________ Irrevocable Trust dated 1/1/2011, or something to that effect.
3catwoman3
(24,007 posts)...they claim they cannot.
Mr. Ected
(9,670 posts)When they allowed conveyances to go directly to a trust, rather than to a trustee on behalf of the trust.
3catwoman3
(24,007 posts)...incorrect or confusing terminology/ jargon. We are outside my skill set.
Mr. Ected
(9,670 posts)Because if those steps are followed, I think you'll see it all work out the way you have planned.
Xolodno
(6,395 posts)Each state is different in regards to trusts. My Mom got 100k, her share of my grandfathers house sale. We opened a trust account, cashed the check, then moved the money to a money market account managed by us, the trustee's. Then closed the trust account, the money was in the trust account for a total of five minutes. Thus far, no problems. We've been using that money to handicap the house (that I own) and making her life more comfortable. The reality, medicare, medical, disability, doesn't cover a lot and this was our one shot to make things better.
herding cats
(19,565 posts)They'll be able to guide you as to what to do in your state. If they're not available to you retain another estate attorney to help you navigate the matter.
Best of wishes for you and your mom. This sounds like a minor issue and one they (the law firm) should have previously detailed for you, at least in my experience.