Krugman: The Real Romney... it’s very, very ugly

[cthulu2016]

The Real Romney

Oh, my. Mother Jones has what it says is a video of Mitt Romney talking to donors; it sure looks and sounds real. And it reveals a candidate who despises half the country:

There are 47 percent of the people who will vote for the president no matter what. All right, there are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependent upon government, who believe that they are victims, who believe the government has a responsibility to care for them, who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing, to you-name-it. That that’s an entitlement. And the government should give it to them. And they will vote for this president no matter what…These are people who pay no income tax.

Actually, if you look at the facts, you learn that the great bulk of those who pay no income tax pay other taxes; also, many of the people in the no-income-tax category are (a) elderly (b) students or (c) having a bad year, having lost a job — that is, they’re people who have paid income taxes in the past and/or will pay income taxes in the future. The idea that half of Americans are just grifters is grotesque.

If this is real, it’s very, very ugly

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/09/17/the-real-romney/

[jsr]

1. It is ugly indeed

The real Romney has spoken.

[RobertEarl]

2. Stay at home Mothers, and

Some soldiers don't pay income taxes.

All of us, at one point in our lives did not pay income taxes. So... the guy who would be your president only cares about how much money you earn. It's all about the money.

[JDPriestly]

43. Stay-at-home-mother. Ann Romney, perchance?

[libodem]

63. meme

RMoney hates motherhood cuz they pay no taxes. That mf'er.

PS. He hates baseball and apple pie. (no link)

PSS HE HATES THIS COUNTRY.
(at least 47% of it)

Anti-American POS.

[RobertEarl]

64. Romney wants a Mom tax

"Moms don't pay taxes. And neither do Moms' children. And since they won't vote for me: Screw 'em." WMR

[Iris]

3. The other piece that gets conveniently left out is Earned Income Tax Credit is a Reagn initiative

I can only assume that when people claim there are all these folks out there not paying taxes they are referring to people who come up negative because of EIC. That was put in place by Reagan.

]

[Art_from_Ark]

19. No, the Earned Income Tax Credit dates from the Ford administration (1975)

and was passed when Democrats controlled both houses of Congress.

[JHB]

45. And expanded by Reagan

Conservatives used to like it because it made "work more attractive than welfare" and let working por "keep more of what they earn."

[Art_from_Ark]

61. Reagan signed the bill mainly because it was part of a package

that reduced the top income tax bracket all the way down to 28%. The bill itself was sponsored by two Democrats, Dick Gephardt and Bill Bradley. Reagan was not a champion of the poor by any stretch of the imagination.

[Spazito]

4. It's real, the Romney campaign authenticated it...

by responding to it in the way in which they did, with trite, tired, regurgitated talking points:

"Mitt Romney wants to help all Americans struggling in the Obama economy. As the governor has made clear all year, he is concerned about the growing number of people who are dependent on the federal government, including the record number of people who are on food stamps, nearly one in six Americans in poverty, and the 23 million Americans who are struggling to find work," Romney spokesperson Gail Gitcho said in a statement. "Mitt Romney's plan creates 12 million new jobs in four years, grows the economy and moves Americans off of government dependency and into jobs."

This is an admission the tape is real, it's Romney that's speaking.

[Cha]

21. Yeah, yeah, yeah, romney..

[Spazito]

25. LOL, yep, their their canned responses do have that effect don't they!

I can't believe they came out almost immediately with this crap but,damn, I am glad they did. It is hilarious that they authenticated it by their very response allowing the media to go full bore on it earlier than they might have otherwise!

[Cha]

27. Like Santorum so eloquently stated..

they don't attrack the smart people.

Bad for them.. Muy Bueno for Democracy!

[Spazito]

32. I start to laugh every time I read or hear what Santorum said...

he is the prime example of the truth of his statement.

[backscatter712]

5. People like rMoney are the reason why the French built guillotines... n/t

[XemaSab]

7. "We're replacing the economic system that defeated communism...

with the system that SPAWNED it."

[robinlynne]

24. what a thought.

[demwing]

26. ooooh!

you're right...

[hifiguy]

14. + a brazilian. nt

[mainer]

6. I pay a ton of taxes. I'm not elderly, not a student. I will damn well vote for Obama.

Which percentage am I in?

[reflection]

52. You are a leech, a drain on society, a parasite.

Don't worry, though, I am too. I work 2 jobs, my wife works one. We make about $150K together. But clearly we refuse to take responsibility for our own lives and sit around waiting for handouts.

[Lex]

8. My parents worked hard their whole lives and are 'dependent' on social security

(and their state pensions, both state employees) so Romney can go jump off a cliff.

[chill_wind]

9. Yes it is. Very.

Ugly.

[Incitatus]

10. That 47% of the people pay no income tax

indicates a serious wage and wealth disparity problem. Mitt clearly doesn't give a shit about solving it

[nineteen50]

11. Would that include a bunch of

corporations also?

[spanone]

12. it's better than real. it's on video.

[Jessy169]

13. Romney, I'll show you my tax returns if you show me yours

then we can see who really pays taxes

[progressivebydesign]

15. You want VICTIMS, Romney? Let's talk to the people of Ampad, and the other firms you destroyed.

Yes, many of those people ARE victims.. victims of the "pioneers of outsourcing." Does he want to go there??

Ironically, many of those donors at the party probably pay no taxes themselves... Once they took deductions, losses, loopholes, offshore accounts, etc.

[Kyad06]

59. so true

Roomney desroyed many lives and wants the saftey net pulled out from under his victims. A total narccistic piece of shit human being

[porphyrian]

16. . n/t

[Bernardo de La Paz]

17. It's real ... ugly. nt

[locks]

18. entitled welfare queen

I worked most of my life and always paid taxes but stopped working this year. Social Security is my only income; I own nothing but a 1997 Subaru. I probably could not have lived to be 82 without Medicare but don't consider myself a victim! Thanks Mother Jones and Jimmy Carter's grandson.

[Cha]

20. Seems Real, Krugman. And, not

even a little bit surprising.

Thanks, cthulu!

[Blue Meany]

22. I wonder how many of the "47%" are actually in the Romney camp

Remember the highest percentages of people not paying income tax are in Red States.

A lot of the tea-partiers seem to retired or unemployed.

Of course, the real "moochers" are those in the 1% like Romney, who pay much less in taxes than the rest of us.

[spooky3]

51. A LOT of them. It's another case of his getting facts wrong.

The over 65 age group is the only one that strongly favors Romney. The largest subset of the people who pay no income tax are the elderly.

[Amonester]

23. Where are your 1999-to-2010 tax returns Willard, huh???

Also, what's up about this one:

The Federal Bailout That Saved Mitt Romney
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-federal-bailout-that-saved-mitt-romney-20120829

Still waiting for an explanation... drip, drip, drip...


Oh, you paid all your taxes, right? Income taxes? Sales taxes? Property taxes?

Or... which taxes and how much of each?? What are you hiding, Willard, and why are you hiding them??

[Cha]

29. Shhhhh

he doesn't want "to lose to Obama". I saw the Vid of him saying that!

[Astazia]

28. Watch TYT today; they play tapes from "quiet rooms"...

He even says if his dad (who was born in Mexico to white Mormon parents) was born to mexican parents, he could say he was mexican & get latino votes. (paraphrased) Not that he would get their votes anyway. He's not a person remotely qualified for POTUS. He makes me sick.

[Cha]

30. If ever that puke icon was needed ..it would

be for Mitt Romney.

[hfojvt]

31. not sure I like Krugman's reasoning

I spent a number of years paying no Federal Income taxes, and even paying negative Federal Income taxes.

Here's the deal though.

1. I was working a part time job, and could not find a full time job.
2. the amoubt of refundable tax credits were never very large, NOT more than the FICA taxes that I paid

Since I was working for a living, albeit part time and not a massively good living, in what way was I "dependent on the government?" I got no public assistance - no food stamps, no welfare, no housing assistance, no LIHEAP, etc. I got my income, I paid my bills - from my job, my wages.

So I was not paying taxes to the Federal government, except perhaps some excise taxes. That makes me a freeloader?

Sure, perhaps in some ways, I got benefits from the Federal Government, like interstates and, of course, those marines and seals protecting my freedom, without having to pay for them. Other than the money taken from my checks which was borrowed for a time until I got my refund.

But Republicans are fond of saying that the budget cannot be balanced even if all the income about $200,000 was taxed away. I can guarantee you that the deficit cannot be solved by heavily taxing those of us in the bottom 20%.

[hay rick]

35. Think you meant to knock Romney's reasoning. nt

[hfojvt]

39. no, Krugman

He said

"Actually, if you look at the facts, you learn that the great bulk of those who pay no income tax pay other taxes; also, many of the people in the no-income-tax category are (a) elderly (b) students or (c) having a bad year, having lost a job — that is, they’re people who have paid income taxes in the past and/or will pay income taxes in the future. The idea that half of Americans are just grifters is grotesque."

Sort of implying that somebody like myself, who was not a) retired, or b) a student, or c) having a bad year - that such a person would be a freeloader.

Well how is there freeloading if I am working and paying my way from my wages?

As for income taxes. I sorta think that I should have to pay some. The reason I don't though, is because of people like Romney. Republicans keep proposing tax cuts in which they cut my taxes by $100 so they can cut their own (or Romney's) by $100,000 and also say politically "people like hfojvt are getting tax cuts" and "hfojvt's tax cut is 100% and that's bigger than Romney's tax cut of only 10%." (Amazing how $100 can be bigger than $100,000 in this view, but then again people were saying that the payroll tax cut was fair because my $260 was 2% just like the $2,000 was 2% for somebody making $100,000, so apparently $260 is just as big as $2,000.)

[strategery blunder]

42. I think under Krugman's reasoning, you would fall under Category C

That is, "having a bad year." Or possibly a series of them.

You said you were working part time, because you were looking for and could not find a full time job, so you had to work part time to get by. That is, you were underemployed. Krugman doesn't really buy the Rmoney talking points that the underemployed are freeloaders--on the contrary, he routinely argues that the economy as a whole cannot generate sufficient jobs to absorb the unemployed and underemployed until the lackluster demand side of the economy (i.e. stagnant wages and declining consumer purchasing power, infrastructure investment to create an employer of last resort) is addressed.

He really should have included a Category D: people who work for an honest living but still make too little to pay income taxes because wage growth has been practically nonexistent for all but the 1% the last few decades. He has certainly written about that little problem often enough.

[hfojvt]

57. except that many people are not having a bad year

they are having a typical year, or perhaps a bad life.

Take even a couple each making $10 an hour (which many jobs pay less or are less than full time) and who have one child. Their gross income is thus $40,000 a year. Minus $11,400 for the standard deduction minus ($3650*3) for exemptions leaves a taxable income of $17,650.Their tax is $1,814. Subtract the accursed child tax credit of $1,000 and that leaves $814. They have an earned income tax credit of $83, which leaves $731 and then, in an ideal world, a making work pay credit (or they would have in 2009 and 2010) of $800. Leaving them with a negative tax bill of $69 - even though they both work full time, and make sorta decent money (over 130% of the minimum wage).

They will also pay no federal income taxes even if they make more money - if they have more children. I could do the same calculation for a couple making $12 an hour who has two children - and they would pay no federal income taxes.

But they, just like me, are NOT freeloaders. They are working for a living, and paying bills, and even taxes - payroll taxes, state income taxes, sales taxes, excise taxes on gasoline, property taxes, personal property taxes on their vehicles, dog license taxes, etc. Just a partial listing of some of the taxes that I pay.

Sure, this imaginary couple got a check back for $69, but they are hardly dependent on that money even if they do appreciate getting it. That couple is still paying $3,060 in payroll taxes, and so is their employer (instead of paying it to them in wages or other benefits).

The ultimate bottom line, for me, is that I would rather give that couple a check for $69 than to give Rush Limbaugh a tax cut of $2,300,000. and I said elsewhere http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=1364044

[TheKentuckian]

38. Accounting for the income disparity, that means it cannot be paid at all.

Very few peanuts spill from the top 20%'s bowl. The many scrap for, fight over, and divide a small slice of the pie.

[riverbendviewgal]

33. I guess you could say Romney is the Ugly American

Hopefully he will be done in 50 days and go back to counting his money and Obama can help all Americans.

[tavalon]

41. He was done yesterday

Trust me. Stick a fork in him, he's done.

[Jester Messiah]

50. I'll stick the fork in him personally... with my vote in November.

Can't get complacent. We all have to get out and vote to ensure that this monster gets nowhere near the levers of power.

[tavalon]

54. Are you kidding?

He kicked a hornets nest. He could be running against a ficus and I would personally drive every person I could find to the polls to vote for the damn ficus!

[Blue Owl]

34. Fugly, even

n/t

[fishwax]

36. Very, very ugly indeed. The more the man says, the uglier he seems.

[hay rick]

37. Simply astonishing.

In a functioning democracy with functioning media, this video would destroy Romney.

Mother Jones rocks. I just donated because of this video.

[tavalon]

40. It's real and it's the end of the Romney campaign, such as it was.

From here on out, it's Zombie Romney.

[tclambert]

44. Make sure that people know he includes those receiving Social Security and Medicare.

"Entitlement" is Republican code for Social Security, don'chaknow.

[fasttense]

46. Look at what Romney is saying.

He is saying that people who can't afford to pay income taxes (this includes children) should NOT have health care, food, housing or shelter, or anything else. We should just let them die from easily cured diseases. We should let them starve to death. We should leave them exposed to rain, hail, sleet.

We should give those who can not afford to pay federal income taxes nothing and leave them to die in the streets. What a vision Romney has. Is this a Christian vision of loving thy neighbor? Even our 1st president approved of government help for the poor. If charity and churches could have taken care of the needs of all the poor, then we would have no one in need in this country.

But charities and churches are not enough because wealthy people like Romney can never have enough. He loves money more than he cares about those missing out on the lucky sperm club.

He has all the money in the world and he begrudges food for a starving man.

[PADemD]

47. Your last sentence says it all about Romney's character.

[FlaGranny]

48. Makes me wish

that I believed there were a heaven and a hell and that Romney was a camel.

[CanonRay]

49. This is what the wealthy really think of us

not just Romney, he's their poster boy, but most of the wealthy elite. We're just so much flotsam to do their bidding at the lowest possible price.

[Myrina]

53. And the worst part is...

Mitt is identical to hundreds, if not thousands, of mid-to-high level managers, bankers, Wall Street assholes and CEO's who are basically running this country.

He's just put into words - and put a face with - what they all actually believe.

[JEB]

55. People like Rmoney

are sucking this country dry. Talk about parasites, Mr. Swiss bank account should take a good long look in the mirror. And a little hard labor for minimum wage might enlighten this dim bulb, though it is probably too late. The only place Mitt has calluses is on his vestigial heart.

[lindysalsagal]

56. One of Krugman's best responses on his site:

Noni MausaHennepin County, MN

"One of the 47% is my blind, widowed mother, who only "worked" 7 years in her life, from age 15 to 22 before she married. Instead of working and paying taxes like a real American should, she just lounged around raising 5 kids and a grandchild, caring for her mother in law till she died at 92, and her husband through his final days of cancer, and assisting her disabled adult son till her own health made this impossible.

Looks like Romney thinks caring for others is a waste of time. After all, he has people for that. Us"

.

[Kalidurga]

58. Some statistics I find interesting.

In regards to 47% of adults that don't pay taxes. Most will fall into one of these categories. The total is higher than 47% so I must assume that many people that pay no income taxes fall into more than one category. I also assume that many people will fall into one or more of these categories and still pay some federal taxes. So, I don't know what the true percent of each category is in the 47%.


16% of US citizens are students
13% of US citizens are retirees
21% of US citizens are disabled
8% of US citizens receive an unemployment check. It is estimated that real unemployment is 14%.
People who get more than 50% of their income from State and Federal programs 1.7%.

I am a student and I pay no federal income taxes. I know students who are disabled and going to school and some are working, but make too little to pay federal income taxes on. But the number that grabs me the most. 1.7% the part of the population getting 50% or more of their income from State and Local government. I think this is the number that really sticks in the craw of Republicans. And they think that this number is really 47%.

[patrice]

60. What would happen if even half of that 47% decided to make their living as Rommunists, you know,

money out of NOTHING, actually less than nothing, because it was money created out of DEBT, fabulous wealth by bankrupting others. You know, what if they went over to the "right side", that 53%, and adhered to the principles that Romney lives by himself and what if they were just a little successful at it, say, placing in the top 20%

What would that kind of America be like?

Would there be inflation?

[B Calm]

62. Never met a republican that wasn't ugly!