"Joe Biden for president. He's not a whiney b****."

[NurseJackie]

Last edited Mon Jun 22, 2020, 07:29 AM - Edit history (1)

Link to tweet

[Siwsan]

1. I think that will make for a very fine bumpersticker

[cwydro]

114. Not on my car.

I'll have a Biden sticker, but not one with a misogynistic slur.

No thanks.

[Siwsan]

121. Out of curiosity, do you consider the word 'bastard' to be misandristic?

Even though it is a gender neutral term, I don't think I've ever heard it used as a pejorative against a female.

I find interesting to read that the first listed definition now has to do with character, not birth circumstances.

Nuance.

[cwydro]

123. I've not heard anyone use that term in ages.

I read a lot of British history, so I'm quite used to seeing used for both sexes.

Both Mary Tudor and Elizabeth Tudor were declared bastards. It was used for either sex, so no, I don't consider it a sexist term in any way.

Bitch is continually used to describe women. Listen to any popular song.

People on this thread defending it even admit it carries that sting simply because it is something the Magat would hate due to its gendered inference.

[Siwsan]

125. I do completely see where you are coming from

I always view the word 'bitch' as more of an attitude than a gender specific insult but then I admit to sometimes being overly 'nuanced' in my speech. Perhaps it's a flaw.

And, yes, Mary and Elizabeth were both called 'bastards', using the vernacular of that time period. It just seems to have evolved into more of a male description, in today's world.

And thanks for the Tudor reference. That pretty much made my day!

[Caliman73]

126. Bastard is a moralistic slur rather than a gendered term. Bitch is gendered, inextricably.

Yes it is applied mainly to men an not women, but the slur was mainly developed as a way to de-legitimize a male's birth for purposes of heredity. "Improper parentage" was important for legal and property issues so being a bastard was disqualifying in certain societies.

The usage of words change, which is why the first definition has to do with character rather than the legitimacy of birth. We use it now to denote "poor character". Bastards of old were typically seen as "less than" and cast out of society, which may have influenced their character development.


The whole historical concept of the word "bastard" however, is proof of the importance of being a man rather than a woman. A woman's birth status was irrelevant because she would not inherit so who cares if she was "legitimate".

What we have to understand, rather than comparing one slur to another, is "where does the slur draw its power from?"

Bastard is a man telling another man that he is an asshole, or in historical terms, an illegitimate birth, not suitable for "polite society".

Bitch is typically a man telling a woman or man that they have the characteristics of a FEMALE dog. The insult does not stem primarily from Dog otherwise you would just say "Dog". The FEMALE is operative.

[Siwsan]

127. I love such input from DUers!

Thanks!

[WestCoastYellowDog]

135. +1

[Cha]

2. Ha.. I called BLOTUS Whiny yesterday! Biden doesn't try

to kill people for political expedience, either.

Link to tweet

And, Joe Biden has a lot of things going FOR him!

[Collimator]

3. I am going to object to the "bitch" part.

Using feminine nouns and adjectives to denigrate men (implying that being a female version of anything is the worst thing ever for males) is something that we need to stop doing. I prefer "He's not a whiny wimp."

This is gender-neutral and makes for a nice alliteration. (I love alliterations.) It also makes clear the point that he is weak, rather than suggesting that he can be tough and demanding. (Something that can earn the "bitch" appellation for a woman in a heartbeat.)

Rhymes are nice, too. "He's not a whiny hiney.*" works because it is a child-like way to call him out for both the asshole that he is and the immature childish creature that he is. It's also something that I would let my grandchildren say if I had grandchildren.

* Or heinie

[LizBeth]

7. I agree. Thanks. We have so many very good ones that apply brilliantly. We do not need to jab at

women while making a point. This is part of the actual work. Just like we have to with the racism, here and now.

[yonder]

9. Agree also. Whiner works fine by itself.

Boasting and whining is about all tRump does when speaking anyway. Continuing to frame him as a whiner could be very effective, IMO.

[cayugafalls]

10. I agree with you, but it needs to be hard, not nice.

Like "whiny asshole" or "whiny little shit".

The message is aimed at him and his base. They are the target. Hit them with hard words, not nice alliterations.

Just my opinion, I agree wholeheartedly with your sentiment.

[Collimator]

17. Oh, I was being nice because that's my general style.

Also, someone had gone to the trouble of using asterisks to blot out the complete word, "bitch", so I figured, why not?

I understand the part about hitting hard because of the people that make up his base. It's just that the thought of even sweet, little children understanding that Trump is a bad and weak person while still maintaining their essential innocence appeals to me.

I suppose that I think of the child-like nature of the insult as an appropriate counterpoint to Trump's childish behavior. It's sort of like, "You're so immature that we won't waste grown-up insults on you."

But to each their own. Even though I do genuinely believe that we need to move away from applying a feminine standard as a way to denigrate men, I am not that upset about the use of the word, "bitch" in this instance. I'm not chiming in with approval; I just believe in choosing my battles.

The thing about the word, "bitch" is that one can be someone's bitch, in the sense that one is subservient, or one can be a bitch which suggests mean and difficult to some but tough and challenging to others.

I'm all for women claiming the word and making it work for them. That's why I have a "Castrating Bitch" t-shirt from my college. I don't actually want to castrate men; I just want them to treat me as a full human being. And I would rather be kind and decent to everyone. But if exuding "bitch" strength is needed, I would hope that I can rise to the occasion.

[Tipperary]

18. Gotta agree.

But I am seeing it more and more frequently here.

[ecstatic]

76. The term has evolved. It's no longer tied to a gender.

It also has different definitions based on context.

[dalton99a]

100. +1

[PatSeg]

101. It has evolved

Merriam Webster doesn't even mention women in their definition, except for "a female dog, wolf, fox, or otter". An informal meaning,
"a difficult or unpleasant situation or thing". And as a verb, "express displeasure; grumble". Words change their meaning over time as the usage of them changes. As a woman, I did not take offense at Trump being called a "whiny little b***h" and didn't see it as an assault on women, just on Trump.

[dalton99a]

4. No shit.

[JHB]

5. Proper credit for the creator:

https://twitter.com/FindAClearTruth

Link to tweet

[NurseJackie]

14. Thanks!

[BannonsLiver]

25. Well deserved

It’s a terrific piece of work.

[LizBeth]

6. Nah. As a Democrat I am not throwing out a sexist jab to score some points, while being cool.

We are better than that.

[NurseJackie]

11. ...

[melman]

16. Some are better than that

Others maybe not so much.

[Tipperary]

19. With you.

Sad that people are willing to abandon their progressive ideals just to use a silly name to call a silly man. So many other words to describe the cretin.

[BannonsLiver]

8. Love it Jackie!

To those who don’t like it — too bad. This is a street fight.

[NurseJackie]

12. I know, right?

[LizBeth]

13. Sexism has got to be had in a street fight, after all. Lol. It is, what it is.

[BannonsLiver]

27. A terrific ad is what it is.

[Tipperary]

20. Can we call him gay slurs too? How about racial slurs?

Where is the line drawn?

[BannonsLiver]

21. nobody's forcing you to watch it.

So I presume you’re free to draw your own?

[Tipperary]

24. What different does it make if I watch it? Seriously?

I care about what it says about us. And you did not answer the question, ok to use gay and racial slurs against him? Or just those that demean women?

[LanternWaste]

37. It certainly allows the engagement of self-righteous sanctimony. So there is that...

But I really dig the "this makes us look bad" line.... I thought that one had died the little death, but no! Still getting mileage out of it.

[Tipperary]

47. So we should use slurs for other marginalized groups, eh, LW?

You really “dig “ that? Oh lordie me. I have read that saying in books, but did not realize someone was “still getting mileage out of it.”

[George II]

29. It has neither gay slurs nor racial slurs. It's a very well done video.

[PTWB]

34. That's correct. It has neither gay slurs nor racial slurs and is a well made video.

But it does contain a misogynistic slur and, therefor, has no place here or anywhere else with progressive, Democratic values.

Do you support the use of misogynistic slurs, gay slurs, and/or racial slurs?

[George II]

45. Fine. If you don't think it has a place here then there are ways to deal with it. Have at it!

[PTWB]

52. Uh oh.. refusing to answer a simple question again.

Last time the excuse was that it was a hypothetical. This time I can't wait to see what the excuse will be.

[George II]

53. You seem to like asking questions like "did you stop beating your wife/husband/partner yet?"

I.e., questions in which you've already determine what an acceptable answer is.

On the other hand, mine was simply, "Where did that information come from?" You don't see the difference?

Are you going to follow me from thread to thread tonight?

[PTWB]

54. What a strawman.

If you’re going to use an analogy at least try to get close.

Your strawman: “did you stop beating your wife/husband/partner yet?”


That’s inflammatory and obviously something that you wouldn’t answer whether or not you were a spouse beater. You’ve framed your question in a way to try to make mine look unreasonable.


If my question had been something along the lines of “did you stop supporting Donald Trump yet?” perhaps you could shoehorn such an analogy ... but it wasn’t.

My question was if Donald Trump switched parties and registered as a Democrat, would you support him? You’ve refused to answer that. That question assumes nothing about you, it simply provides a scenario and asks how you would approach it. Other folks on the thread, including myself, had no issue answering. But you did... hmm.

Now, if you want to use your ridiculous (and frankly offensive) spousal abuse analogy, try framing it like this: “would you support a Democratic candidate who beats his wife/husband/partner?”

Of course my answer would be No!

Also, I am definitely not following you from thread to thread. Don’t flatter yourself. If you happen to be participating in a thread that I’m also participating in and I find it appropriate to respond, I will.

[George II]

55. Introducing you hypothetical question about trump becoming a Democrat...

...now in TWO separate threads, is a strawman.

Funny how you coincidentally showed up here to pose the same question to me that you did a few days ago elsewhere.

"If you happen to be participating in a thread that I’m also participating in and I find it appropriate to respond, I will."

But at the time you weren't participating in this thread but you zeroed right in on my posts and all five of your posts in this thread are direct responses to me.

[PTWB]

58. Again, imagine my surprise when I opened up this thread and saw you questioning another poster.

Do you think it inappropriate to point out hypocrisy when you see it?

I’m bemused at the lengths you will go to in order to avoid answering.


If Donald Trump switched parties and registered as a Democrat, would you support him?

For anyone reading this and wondering why I am repeatedly pressing this issue with George, it is because he was throwing support behind a right winger who switched parties to sabotage a strong Democratic candidate that he happens to dislike.

[George II]

59. Imagine my surprise when I saw you say you were "participating" in the thread and yet....

...apparently your only reason to do so is to respond directly to me....now six out of six.

Should I feel flattered?

[PTWB]

60. What can I say?

When you condemned gay and racist slurs, but not misogynistic ones, I was inspired to participate.

[George II]

61. That's seven. Glad I found another purpose in life for my retirement years.

[PTWB]

65. What is your purpose?

[melman]

62. "condemned gay and racist slurs"

They didn't even do this. They were asked. They dodged. Sad.

[PTWB]

63. Well, technically he only acknowledged that they weren't present. I suppose he didn't condemn them.

[melman]

66. Definitely not

And it seems odd when it's so easy to do.


Here...


I condemn racist, homophobic and misogynistic slurs. And btw, I would never vote for DT no matter how he registered.



Easy. Very odd to see someone dodge these simple questions.

[PTWB]

70. It is odd to me too.

I don't get it.

[George II]

64. I believe there's only one, why the repeated "they"?

[melman]

67. You believe there's only one what?

[George II]

68. Who are "they" of which you speak, other than me? THAT is "only one what".

[melman]

69. Okay

Then answer the question.

[George II]

71. What question?

[melman]

72. Do you support the use of misogynistic slurs, gay slurs, and/or racial slurs?

[George II]

73. Why are YOU asking me to answer that question, it wasn't asked by you.....or was it?

[melman]

74. Another dodge

I think the answer is clear.

[George II]

75. Yes, the answer to my last question is becoming increasingly clear. BTW, when I was growing up....

...in Brooklyn, my father and I were HUGE Dodger fans.

[melman]

77. Interesting

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=13608871

And yes I know you did that on purpose. Cute.


What's not so cute is how you're refusing to condemn misogynistic slurs, gay slurs, and/or racial slurs. Not cute at all.


But as I said, the answer is clear. When you refuse to answer the answer is clear.

[George II]

78. I know you obsess about where I've lived over my lifetime, we've been through this before:

As you know I was born in Bed-Stuy, and lived in Brooklyn until I was 9 years old (the year the Brooklyn Dodgers moved to Los Angeles). Remember now? We moved to Flushing, Queens to a neighborhood that is now Grace Meng's district, NY-06. Remember now?

In my 72 years I've moved several times (more than I mention here) - I wasn't born in my parents' house, grew up there, and still live in their basement. How about you?

C'mon man, again we've been through this before so I hope I don't have to do this again. Write it down. Oh wait, you don't have to, you bookmark all of my posts.

[melman]

79. I didn't know any of that

Nor do I care even a tiny bit. It's bizarre you'd think I (or anyone here) would.


Do you support the use of misogynistic slurs, gay slurs, and/or racial slurs?

[George II]

81. Of course you knew that - perhaps you should fine tune your cataloging system and cross references?

That's why you sarcastically said "interesting" and posted a link to some of it, right? If you didn't "care even a tiny bit", why did you feel the need to go to your library of my posts and dig up one of my past posts?

On the other hand, I see once again you're interested in me answering a question posed by someone "else". You're here now, PTWB isn't. To quote you, "interesting".

[melman]

82. I'm not interested in you answering that question

[George II]

83. Really? How about this:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=13633478

"Do you support the use of misogynistic slurs, gay slurs, and/or racial slurs?"

That was you, wasn't it? Or perhaps.................

[melman]

84. Yes, that was me

And I'm still not interested in your answering that question.

[George II]

85. Oh, then why did you ask it (more than once)?

[melman]

86. So everyone could see you repeatedly refuse to say no

[George II]

87. Everyone is going to be disappointed - both of you.

[muriel_volestrangler]

89. If you object to the use of "they" as a pronoun for a person of unknown gender

then you should put your gender, or a preferred pronoun, in your profile or signature. Otherwise, don't question the widespread and neutral use of "they" for a person about whom we have no details.

[George II]

91. I think it's safe to say that everyone knows what my gender is..

... I was responding to someone who thought he was being cute.

[muriel_volestrangler]

94. Or you were responding to someone who just uses "they" when it's not known

I don't think we all keep up with your personal posts on DU enough to know whether you're a man or woman. You're not the centre of the board.

[George II]

95. I suspect "George" is a huge clue, and the person I responded to hangs on every word...

...I type here, about 50% of his posts are responses to me.

I know I'm not the centre of the board, far from it.

[muriel_volestrangler]

96. "George II" is a historical figure. So, no, it's no clue, since you're not a dead king.

Ironically, of the 4 interactions in the last month between you and the person you responded to, that Google has, in all cases it's been you replying to them, or in a thread they started:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100213615353
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100213615574
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100213628184
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100213605363

Maybe you should rethink who is hanging on whose every word.

[George II]

97. That historical figure was a male (btw, there were two, both males), and George II...

....isn't in reference to either.

You missed the dozen or more just since Friday, not including the "they" references.

[melman]

102. Absolutely

And if you look at post #55 you'll see this individual accuse another poster of following them around. It's just what they do.

[George II]

107. Case in point:

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1014&pid=2520777

[melman]

108. Oh look who's here

responding to my post to prove I hang on their every word.

[George II]

109. Yes indeed - in response to a subthread in which I was involved and you responded (surprisingly?)...

from out of nowhere. Right on cue.

And as I pointed out there, you suddenly felt the need to respond to my virtually dormant OP with "news" that has been known for two days and already acknowledged by me.

[melman]

110. Holy shit

Are you really trying to make the Rayshard Brooks story about you?


Wow.

[George II]

112. No, are you?

[melman]

113. Certainly not

I'm not the one complaining about posts in "my OP"

[sheshe2]

128. Oh no!

[melman]

129. Hey

Your buddy there says it's okay to say "bitch" because it's a "gender neutral term" now.

Agree? Disagree?

[sheshe2]

130. Welp. You had no problem with it here.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/128747173#post7

You had no problem with it here.

Link to tweet

Briahna Joy Gray

@briebriejoy


A shocking number of folks would do well familiarize themselves with one of the most hilarious moments of the 2016 campaign season.

Didn't realize the Cardi B quote was so niche. What can I say. I'm a millennial.


'Vote for Daddy Bernie, bitch': the political history of Cardi B
The singer has found herself in a number of spats over Trump’s shutdown this month, but she has always been outspoken

theguardian.com
12:02 PM · Apr 1, 2019·Twitter Web Client

[melman]

131. So we'll put you down for agree then

Got it.

[sheshe2]

133. No.

Fact is you called out a poster for a term that you yourself posted freely on April 1st. 2019.

Cardi B


'Vote for Daddy Bernie, bitch': the political history of Cardi B
The singer has found herself in a number of spats over Trump’s shutdown this month, but she has always been outspoken

theguardian.com
12:02 PM · Apr 1, 2019·Twitter Web Client

https://www.democraticunderground.com/128747173#post7

You got nuttin' honey.

[George II]

134. Life sure can be a ............... oh, you know what I mean. Maybe I should say....

[sheshe2]

139. Back at ya!

[melman]

136. I posted an article to show the context of the BJG tweet everyone was fake-outraged about

And you still haven't said what you think of it. Nor will you, I'm sure.


btw, you don't see any difference between a young woman like Cardi B saying it and an older male like your buddy?


Interesting. Very interesting indeed.

[sheshe2]

143. Yet you posted it.

Are you a young woman like Cardi B? I don't care for the word and try not to use it. I usually substitute Witch for **tch

The ad, IMHO, was spot on. I have always felt that darn it, damn it are not enough when what I really want to say is FUCK! These days, doing homecare for a 94 year old who is still smart as a whip never feels the need to wash my mouth out anymore. She lets me vent.

PS...the daddy thing is weird.

[melman]

144. I posted a link

That is entirely different than actually using the word. You know this.

[sheshe2]

146. Psst...

melman
144. I posted a link

That is entirely different than actually using the word. You know this.

Melman, the OP posted a link as well..."That is entirely different than actually using the word. You know this."

[George II]

148. William Shakespeare's Hamlet, Act 3, Scene :

For 'tis the sport to have the engineer

Hoist with his own petard

[sheshe2]

149. Bravo!

Joe, Jill and Michelle!

[la-trucker]

154. Some people are gracious in accepting defeat

and then move on.

Defeat is a key word.

[melman]

159. It would be nice if they had

I agree.

[la-trucker]

161. I didn't mean the others

[melman]

163. Oh

Well, you see, I did..is the thing.

[Cha]

141. Good Job, she! There's a word for criticizing

someone else for the very thing they're doing.

Thanks for the Reality Check!

[sheshe2]

145. Love ya, Cha.

You are absolutely correct!

[Cha]

147. Take Good Care, she!

[still_one]

150. +++ It's called tunnel vision

[GeorgiaPeanut]

151. lol someone was badly owned

[sheshe2]

152. ...

[betsuni]

155. Interesting.

[mcar]

157. Oopsie

[NurseJackie]

158. Bazinga!

[Eliot Rosewater]

160. Admire your memory LOL...anyway, I dont like them using the word,

and there are other ways to do it.

And using it just causes all this what we have now, and while some who oppose it do so because they are excellent civil rights proponents, feminists female and male, many who are talking about it now we KNOW are only really opposed to it because the Democratic candidate used it.

But, it is inevitable those folks will do this and it just aint worth it.

how about whiny traitor who helps our enemy MURDER our troops?


Oh, I should add I am not a word person, personally if it were up to me we would not have so many words on the dont list, the reason I dont want them to use anything controversial is because if we lose the election, we die. Many of us are going to die even if we win, because of the traitor.

In fact I am on record for accepting the British and Aussie meaning of the "C" word, they dont consider it gender specific and I wish we didnt, cuz it is a good word to apply to so many on the right.

[sheshe2]

162. Hey Eliot. 😊

LOL. It wasn’t memory it was Advanced search, but thank you!

Sorry I would say more but I’m stuck posting on my phone. My computer was acting up and it’s on a fix mode now. I hate posting from the phone it’s a pain in the butt.

Good to see you!

[Eliot Rosewater]

164. Oh, I know...I dont like it on the phone. And going OT for a little bit, you would

think the OS would get easier to use for not just message boards but things like governmental sites where you have to open files...

I wish I was a coder, I would make it better.

Actually, I wish I was a rocknroll god...awaiting a new set of drums right now, but they are weird and they are such that I can play without making my spouse crazy


Similar to this

[mcar]

156. You seem to have attracted two of them, George

and they are quite obvious.

[melman]

103. Just trying to be careful tbh

You don't see the term 'callout' much here anymore but I try to be careful when referring to another poster.

There are some that look for any excuse to go after a post. Just trying not to give them one.

[GeorgiaPeanut]

153. The first rule to follow when one is deep in a hole

is to stop digging further.

[R B Garr]

124. +++that one sounds very familiar.

[Tipperary]

48. Thank you. nt

[Tipperary]

50. Um ok, so no gay or racial slurs. Check.

Misogynistic slurs. A-ok. Got it.

[melman]

15. If supporters of Senator you-know-who had done this

The same people celebrating it would be howling in outrage.

[George II]

22. C'mon man. Yesterday it was "said individual", today it's "Senator you-know-who"....

...WHO are you talking about?

[melman]

23. Oh it's such a mystery

How ever will you solve it?

[George II]

26. It is. Why post something about someone if you're not willing to say who it is?

[melman]

28. Another great mystery to be solved

I wish you luck in your efforts.

[George II]

31. Sorry, not interested in playing tonight.

[melman]

33. Is that what you call it?

I can think of another word.

[lapucelle]

30. The ad only works so well because Biden isn't "whiny", unlike

Trump.

[PTWB]

36. You of all people trying to call someone out for not saying something is amusing.

You refused to answer a very simple question when you were supporting a right winger who switched parties. The question, which you've still refused to answer:

If Trump switched parties and registered as a Democract, would you support him?

ANYONE should answer that question with a big fat NO.

[George II]

39. Back to that irrelevant and hypothetical question based on a false premise from days ago? And....

...what is the relevance of THAT question to the discussion at hand?

I'll be here most of the evening while I'm watching Big Bang Theory.

[PTWB]

40. Imagine my surprise..

when I showed up in this thread and you were calling someone out for not answering a simple question.

I just thought it was too perfect not to shine a light on the hypocrisy.

I don't support Donald Trump. I will never support Donald Trump. Since you seem to relish in the idea of right wing candidates switching parties to attack solid Democrats in their primary - which you were doing in the aforementioned thread - coupled with your refusal to say that you would not support Donald Trump if he switched parties - I'm left to draw my own conclusion that there exists a scenario in which you'd back Trump.

You could clear all this up but you choose not to.

[George II]

41. My question was about the source of data that was presented.....

Yours is a hypothetical question about something that will never happen. Do you see the difference between the two?

And yet you dare call me hypocritical.

[PTWB]

49. They're both simple questions.

And yet shockingly you wont answer one, yet expect other posters to answer you.

Amazing.

[NurseJackie]

35. No we wouldn't. What an absurd accusation!

Time to move on, Melman! The primary is over, again.

[melman]

42. Okay

Let's all move on and be friends.

[NurseJackie]

44. Haaaaa!

As if!

[George II]

46. ..

[sheshe2]

137. Brianna Joy.

Link to tweet

Briahna Joy Gray

@briebriejoy
·
Apr 1, 2019

The youths have spoken. They want daddy Bernie.

melman
15. If supporters of Senator you-know-who had done this

The same people celebrating it would be howling in outrage.

They did do this.

………………………………….

Briahna Joy Gray

@briebriejoy
A shocking number of folks would do well familiarize themselves with one of the most hilarious moments of the 2016 campaign season.

Didn't realize the Cardi B quote was so niche. What can I say. I'm a millennial.





'Vote for Daddy Bernie, bitch': the political history of Cardi B
The singer has found herself in a number of spats over Trump’s shutdown this month, but she has always been outspoken

theguardian.com

[melman]

138. They did?

They made an ad calling someone the "b" word? Let's see it.

[sheshe2]

140. It had to be an ad?

Seriously?

This was a BS surrogate calling people the B word which you have denounced EVER BEING USED. You specified that if an unnamed candidate, you meant BS, had used it there would be hell to pay. Now here ya are saying it is okay, 'cause it wasn't ad for Biden.



PS... Vote for your Daddy?

[melman]

142. Uh

1. Yeah, when I said "this" I was referring to making an ad. Obviously.

2. None of what you're describing there ever happened. None of it at all. I did not "denounce it ever being used", I did not say it was okay there. I did not say if a candidate used it. No surrogate called anyone anything. None of that happened.

[Collimator]

32. I would like to make one other point

in response to both my response about the specifics of the wording in the slogan shown in the first post and the reactions of others to what I wrote.

I was just now watching Superman vs Batman: Dawn of Justice when this idea hit me. Martha (Superman's mom) is being held at flame-thrower point by a man acting on behalf of Lex Luthor.

Luthor has been playing Batman to get him to suspect Superman and is threatening to burn Superman's mom alive if Superman doesn't kill Batman.

My friends, Martha is our democracy. Let's take out the guy with the flamethrower asap and then deal with Luthor. (The analogy is pretty tortured here because Trump is no Lex Luthor.)

There is a lot to unpack regarding our usage of language in the larger culture. It's good to have dialog and people can disagree without casting those with different opinions in the villain mold.

Right now, Martha not getting burned to death is the critical focus. . . Wait, I have it. Trump is the flamethrower because he's a mindless, toxic tool in the hands of other people being used to burn down our country.

Let's all agree to deal with the flamethrower first, the guy holding the flamethrower second and the complicated, out-of-wack mastermind behind it all last because that nut is going to take more than an election to crack. (The
out-of-wack mastermind here is a deeply ingrained cultural perspective that sorts and stacks us all into a hierarchy that ultimately makes us all less than human.)

Okay, so maybe I am really stretching to make a point here. But we really don't have a lot of time to beat each other up when so much is at stake. . . Oh, wait! Martha is our planet! She's under the threat of being burned alive while the rich and powerful--who are smart enough to gain wealth and power but wacked out if they think that a scorched Earth isn't going to impact their well being --are using sadists who are happy to have found a profitable outlet for their cruelty to threaten us.

The above is actually a pretty good analogy, but I am going way, way off course and should shut up now. I would just like to close to say that I am not personally mad at NurseJackie or the person who came up with the slogan. Yes, there are valid arguments against the word choice. But that is not the battle I wish to fight right this moment.

[pansypoo53219]

38. not a bitch, he's a BABY!

[Tipperary]

51. I agree, baby would work much better.

I am learning a lot about some duers here. I would not have expected this from a few, others, well...

[Happy Hoosier]

92. Unfortunately, probably not...

That is, it would not work better. The use of that slur is kind of the point, because it’s what AGAts would say, and the point of the ad to undermine Trump’s veneer of being a “strong” man. The less harsh, and less sexist terms would not have the same effect. Still, I hate to see that term used that way. But I’ve gotten used to fat hatred getting an absolute pass here, so....

[muriel_volestrangler]

56. 'Baby' or 'brat' would work fine (nt)

[Captain Stern]

43. I think this is a really "good" ad.

I wish it wasn't. I wish that political ads would all be about substance, rather then appearances.

But they aren't, and we have to play with the cards that we are dealt.

This ad is pretty much just pointing out that trump is a fat, physically weak, whining, pile of goo..while Biden is looking like he spends some time in a gym.

I think we all know this really shouldn't matter...but, I think we all know it does.

But since it does, I'm glad that the guy that had to give a 10 minute speech about how 'hard' ramps are to walk on is on the other team.

[George II]

57. You know what's funny? That is a really well put together video, 1:35 long, and some are dwelling..

....on one word at the VERY end of the video instead of commenting on the premise and content of the other 1:34.

[TreasonousBastard]

80. Not funny-- it happens all too often around here.

[muriel_volestrangler]

88. There's a title and a still picture in the OP that are exclusively about calling him a "bitch"

and there's a tweet there too. No explanation of what the tweet is - that it's a "well put together video", or that it has a message other than "Trump is a whiny bitch".

I don't think you, or the OP, have thought through how people take messages. They read headlines and titles first. They look at big pictures, and simple messages in them. They might then decide to watch a video in a tweet, but, since it looks like it's Donald Fucking Trump talking, and we all know how painful that is to endure, why bother? It's not as if anything more has been said about it than "he's a whiney bitch" (which is obviously some random twitter user, not the originator of any video, since they can't spell "whiny", and being able to spell your message really is the starting point of getting it out). Why listen to 1:35 of Trump whining?

Plus there's the misogynist aspect of using "bitch" as your go-to insult. That is quite Trumpian, really.

[George II]

90. Over the years that word (I never use it online or in real life) has become gender neutral...

Last edited Mon Jun 22, 2020, 09:20 AM - Edit history (1)

One sees it used to refer to males and females and not in a gender sort of way.

As for "whiney" vs. "whiny", both spellings are acceptable.

[muriel_volestrangler]

93. It's "gender neutral" in application, but the reason it's held to be insulting

is tied up with women, given the usage over the years. It's also not particularly descriptive for this occasion; Trump was being far more baby-like than "bitching" in any sense. It is a poor punchline for the video. And, of course, if the OP didn't recognise there's something offensive about it, she wouldn't have use the cop-out of 4 asterisks. So, no surprise that people think it's a bit crap.

"Whiney" does not appear in 7 major dictionaries I just checked; the OED lists it in the obscure expression "whiney-piney".

[MrsCoffee]

98. ++++++++

[lapucelle]

105. The OED lists "whiney" as an alternative spelling to "whiny",

and given the etymology of the word, the less common spelling is understandable.

whiny, adj.
Forms: Also whiney
Etymology: < whine n. or whine v. + -y suffix

Characterized by whining; disposed to whine, fretful.

https://www.oed.com/view/Entry/228403?redirectedFrom=whiney&

According to the OED, the "whin(e)y-pin(e)y" reference applies to both spellings, and the 1854 source given spells it "whiny".

Also whin(e)y pin(e)y; so whiney-pine vb. intr., to make whining noises.
1854 A. E. Baker Gloss. Northamptonshire Words II. 395 Whiny piny, fretful, complaining.

https://www.oed.com/view/Entry/228403?redirectedFrom=whiney&

***************************************************************************************

A search at the Online Etymology Dictionary yields this result:

whiney (adj.)
also whiny, from whine + -y

https://www.etymonline.com/word/whiney

and this:

whine (v.)

Old English hwinan "to whiz, hiss, or whistle through the air" (only of arrows), also hwinsian "to whine" (of dogs), ultimately of imitative origin (compare Old Norse hvina "to whiz," German wiehern "to neigh" ). Meaning "to complain in a feeble way" is first recorded 1520s. Related: Whined; whining.

whine (n.)
1630s, from whine (v.).

Entries related to whine
whiney
whinge
whinner
whinny

https://www.etymonline.com/word/whine?ref=etymonline_crossreference#etymonline_v_7957

*************************************************************************************

The Merriam Webster search of "whiney" yields this result.

whiny adjective

variants: or less commonly whiney
whinier; whiniest
Definition of whiny: characterized by whining:

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/whiney?utm_campaign=sd&utm_medium=serp&utm_source=jsonld

****************************************************************************************

An internet search for "whiney" also brings these results:

https://www.thefreedictionary.com/whiney

https://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/whiney

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/whiney

*****************************************************************************************

The Urban Dictionary also has an entry for "whiney".

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=whiney

[WhiskeyGrinder]

104. Think of what might have happened if the ad hadn't used that word!

[NurseJackie]

115. This thread wouldn't have 100+ replies... and almost 60 DU-Recs?

[WhiskeyGrinder]

117. No such thing as bad publicity, I guess.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

99. I will never understand why people who think using misogynistic slurs to attack a truly

contemptible person don't go all the way and use racist and homophobic slurs, too. Why stop at halfway? If you've already accepted "they go low, we go high" doesn't work, why not bring out the big guns?

[NurseJackie]

116. Stand by.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

118. For....?

[NurseJackie]

119. An opportunity to adjust your expectations and understanding?

There's no telling what the future holds.

[Tipperary]

122. Exactly.

Or how about mother-effer?

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

106. Excellent

[Sunsky]

111. Love it nt

[Demsrule86]

132. K&R Jackie!