Is scavenging for scrap metal a bad thing?

[CTyankee]

I heard a program on recycling on CT public radio this morning while driving. A question about scavenging came up and the recycling expert on the show said it was a bad practice because
scrap metal is valuable for towns' recycling programs with crews going out and exspending employees time and fuel for the trucks. Their recycling of the metal is very valuable and helps pay for the recycling program. (Because I was running errands I did not hear all of the arguments pro and con but that was basically the charge).

It made me think of the following scenario: If I take an old metal file cabinet I want to get rid of, place it on my front lawn with a sign reading "FREE" and someone picks it up to sell for scrap, am I just as guilty as a scavenger? I see people doing this sort of every now and then...

[Marrah_G]

1. Yes and no

It really depends on your city.

In my old town, they had a guy contracted to the town who would pick up large bulk items and in payment he would get the scrap metal and make money from it. Then some people started driving around in pick ups just getting the scrap. The scrap is always gone in a matter of hours.

The guy working as a contractor for the town, now has to pick up the bulk items and isn't getting much of anything in return for it. The result is that now the town will have to add the expense of that bulk trash removal to the budget, since it no longer pays for itself. OR people would need to find a way to bring their own bulk items to a transfer station.

[CTyankee]

7. On trash pickup day, some guy comes around with a little cart and goes thru people's

recycle bins and I can hear the glass clinking as he take it out but he probably takes the plastic bottles, too. It's annoying because he does this at 4:30 a.m. and with windows open he wakes me up. Since we have single stream recycling he probably has to spend a lot of time digging for it in the bins.

[sad sally]

39. Dirty rotten poor person - how rude.

[CTyankee]

48. Look before you leap, sad, and see my response to DainBramaged below.

That might help inform you a bit better...

[DainBramaged]

45. Holy shit are you serious?

You begrudge the person rooting through your recyclables for the chance to make pennies as an intrusion?


God help us if we all start to think like this.


Go out and give the guy a couple of bucks for God's sake, it's not like you can't afford to be a Liberal....

[CTyankee]

47. I'd like him to have the stuff...I just don't like the noise at 4 a.m.

I've even considered putting plastic and glass recylclables in a large paper bag on top of all the other trash to make it easier for him.

Why don't you try to get the whole story before you jump to conclusions? I would try to get more information if I had a question about your posts. I think you should give the benefit of the doubt just as you would want that courtesy extended to you.

Just a word to the wise, Dain...

[DainBramaged]

55. A word to the wise, is that some kind of threat?

The fact that he disturbs you is proof enough of you lack of compassion.


Pompous,

next to the description in the dictionary is your picture.

[CTyankee]

56. I happen to suffer from chronic insomnia. If he came at 2 am I'd be awake

so no problem. I try to get at least another half to one hour of sleep around 4. Is that all right with you?

[DainBramaged]

60. You suffer from chronic holier than thou syndrome

aren't you the person from a couple of years ago who was pissed off because your neighbor wouldn't recycle as regularly as you and you had to be the recycling police in your neighborhood?


There but by the grace of your God goes you. To begrudge the poor from trying to make a few pennies from the recyclables YOU put at the curb is simply disgusting. If you think your sleep is more important than their meager lives, then your ideas of Liberalism and being a Democrat are so far to the right of mine it makes me ill.

[CTyankee]

61. I am but of only one who begs to touch the hem of your robe, your Holiness!

I am sure there are many of us who bow before your piety and your sanctity! Let no one speak of any but your Holy Presence.

[maxsolomon]

2. it's bad when they tear it off existing buildings

at the ww2-era decommissioned naval base by my house, metal thieves wrenched the copper downspouts off a beautiful brick barracks and carted them away. they ransack construction sites regularly, too.

it seems the scrap yards need to stop buying anything & everything from anyone, and start reporting theft.

[CTyankee]

8. That is out and out theft. If you are giving stuff away or just throwing it out it is different.

We do have special "big trash" days that you have to pre-arrange in advance with the city but they charge you $50.

[Art_from_Ark]

46. They have special "big trash" days here in Japan, too

You make pre-arrangements to have the "sodai gomi" taken away on a designated collection day. Around here, the cost is about $12 per item.

[dixiegrrrrl]

13. Metal theft is so bad here that scrap yardsnow have to document ID of scrap sellers.

We are a teeny teeny town of 6,000 and every week at least one story appears of a metal theft.
Farmers are getting ripped off right and left.

[dipsydoodle]

3. The amount of copper which was "scavenged" in Iraq

affected the world price of copper.

In the UK it is now illegal for scrap metal dealers to pay for scrap using cash. That is to discourage theft.

[HiPointDem]

4. Scrap metal is one of the top US exports -- to china.

consider that some portion of that is stolen from businesses, homes, local governments, etc.

[GreenPartyVoter]

5. Well, I sold some stuff from my dad's garage after he passed. Unfortunately some other people

came along and helped themselves to more metal without my permission, including a very nice, not very cheap extension ladder. And I lived in fear that I was going to get a call that someone had stripped the copper piping out of the house. Luckily it was situated out in the open on a fairly busy road, so no one bothered it beside that hit and run job on the garage.

So I guess we need a very clear definition of "scavenging."

[uppityperson]

6. Re your scenario. If you own it and give it away, it isn't scavenging. Since you can not

control what happens to something once it no longer belongs to you, it isn't your problem. If you want your community to benefit, then give it to them.

[CTyankee]

9. Some people feel that if someone gets a use out of an item they no longer need, all is good.

I think it is very easy for such giveaways to make the neighborhood look tacky.

[Vincardog]

11. Be happy if looking tacky, is the worst thing your neighborhood has to worry about.

[CTyankee]

12. Well, it can be symptomatic of blight. And that is bad for property values.

[MineralMan]

22. Where I live, it's common practice for people to put unwanted

items on the curb. Whenever I've done it, they were all gone within a few hours. I don't put out junk. Only usable items.

It all gets taken. I'd rather that than have it in a landfill, by far.

[CTyankee]

23. I take a lot of stuff to Goodwill because it is close. But Big Brothers/Big Sisters has called me

for used clothing and I have given large bags of it to them. If it is really good stuff, I take it to Goodwill because they can sell it and I know people who fill out their wardrobes with Goodwill donations that they can buy very cheaply.

[MineralMan]

25. I don't generate a lot of usable old clothing, frankly.

When I wear it out, I convert it to rags, and use them for cleaning.

[CTyankee]

26. I wear stuff I love out too! But...I have some stuff from when I was working and now just don't

wear, being retired. At one time I raised money at an organization that held fancy balls each year so I had to buy evening clothes. Those I sold to a second hand store. But I didn't get all that much for them, even tho they were nice...

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

31. That's exactly what I did this summer when I remodeled my kitchen.

Every couple of days guys would come by looking for scrap metal because they saw a dumpster that indicated there was remodeling going on. So we left unwanted metal stuff by the alley and it was soon taken away.

[robinlynne]

32. +1

[Vincardog]

10. Define "scavenging" . The recycling "expert" didn't want his scrap to go missing. What about the

town that has no recycling program?
IMO scavenging that keeps thing out of the dump is good,
scavenging that steals things out of your garage is bad.

[CTyankee]

14. I define scavenging as "dumpster diving" only doing it in people's individual trash bins.

By definition, if you are throwing the stuff out, you no longer want it. Stealing stuff out of your garage is theft.

[Vincardog]

16. Then IMO it is a good thing.

[yawnmaster]

34. with the exception that if the container is a "recyclables only" container it is not trash and...

the contents are owned by the recycling company.
In California, at least, and I believe in other states as well, scavenging through the recycling bin that is put out on garbage day is illegal. The general garbage can, on the other hand, if free game.

[CTyankee]

50. I'm not sure if it is illegal here. It may be, but both trash and garbage is

picked up by DPW trucks with city workers that are in unions.

[yawnmaster]

54. same here with regard to same company and workers and union...

the recyclables do subsidize the recycling program and the recycling can is different.
I believe since it has the specific use of recycling it is not viewed as trash by law and therefore scavenging through it breaks some ordinance, whether it's city or state, I don't know.

[CTyankee]

57. That sounds consistent with what the recycling expert was saying.

However, when the new bins and single stream was introduced a couple of years ago, information flyers were dropped off at the same time. They talked about what you could/could not put in the bins but not about an ordinance against scavenging.

[Trillo]

15. When I was younger, the little teensy tiny filing cabinets

sold cheap at many markets back in the 1980s proved to not have enough storage space, and the drawers, while about 1 foot deep, only opened about 6", meaning they were not very useful. But they were inexpensive.

I saw a used filing cabinet on a residential street curb, with a sign that said, $5.00. I bought it. It was a crappy used filing cabinet, slightly rusty, with dents, but with two long drawers of about 3'-4' of length that had roller bearings and opened smoothly, and opened far enough you could access what was in the drawers. We used this filing cabinet for years. Eventually, it proved to not be big enough.

We went to a used furniture dealer, and bought a bunch of 4 drawer filing cabinets. These, while used, were in better shape, but they were far too expensive, even used.

Looking back on this, I find myself asking why we needed to save so much "paper" and "records". I guess it's because we live in a fear based society, or its because our memories are less than perfect, or its because we need to prove to government agencies certain things, and these things need to have "records" attached to them.

Just because someone puts out a metal filing cabinet on the street marked "free", doesn't mean it's going to be recycled for scrap metal. Sometimes, that filing cabinet will make some poor folk's day a brighter one.

our local recycling center charges to dispose of stuff like that. They pay money for items with deposits, like aluminum cans, they take plastic bottles, cardboard, and broken electronics for free, but everything else has a disposal fee, and is deemed "garbage" even though it isn't called kitchen waste.

So, where are these magic recycling places that take garbage for free?

[CTyankee]

18. well, it is not free in our city since our taxes pay for it. And there is an extra fee for large

trash removal. One guy had a bunch of old tires he "stored" on his lawn and they were finally picked up by the city. Made the neighborhood look like a slum...

[Jamastiene]

35. We have the same thing here.

They have different areas of the recycle center. You put non-recyclable stuff in one bin and the recyclable stuff (which turns out to be the majority of trash in this area) goes into a catch-all bin. We are not required to separate plastics, paper, glass, etc. Some do, and they do have special bins for those who do separate their stuff. But all of our trash goes to a recycle center where there are people who sort it and recycle it. Our taxes pay for it. So, technically, it is not "free," but we don't have to pay every time we use the service or anything like that. Just pay our taxes and it's there for us.

[Retrograde]

17. Too many "scavengers" cross the line into outright theft

Taking something labeled "Free - Take It" is one think. Ripping out electrical cables or downspouts from a building you don't have a legal right to is outright theft. I put going through recycling containers for valuables in the theft category: it's ultimately stealing from me if my rates go up due to the town not making money on recycling.

[CTyankee]

19. That is what the recycling expert was saying. So she said there is an option that the city/town

just abandons its recycling program and then you have to load up your trash and take it to the dump.

[matt819]

20. Ah, ethics

If you "throw it out," that's the end of it for you. You could have taken it to Goodwill. You could have taken it to your town recycling center. You could have sold it for scrap, etc. You didn't. You put it on your front lawn with a sign. Whoever takes it can do with it what they want. They can use it for target practice, use it for its intended purpose, sell it for scrap. Heck, they can take it to the town dump and let them sell it for scrap. Why do you care?

Now, let's say you take it to the dump for recycling, as one could do in my town. They might put it in the swap shop section, and let someone else take it. Despite the "no scavenging" sign at the entrance, I suppose anyone who takes the file cabinet at that point can do whatever they want, though the intended goal of putting it in the swap shop was so it it would be available to someone who needed a file cabinet. But once there, it's fair game. Or the dump guys could tell you to drop it in the metal container and then sell it as scrap with all the other metal bits.

I wouldn't get too excited either way. You got rid of something you didn't need, and someone was able to use it in some way, either for filing or for money. That's fine.

[Hubert Flottz]

21. If you get the okay from the owner of the metal...

nobody will be going to the recyclers looking for that material, so I'd say it would be okay. If you go on to somebody's property and haul off a large quantity of material and that person reports you to the cops, they may check with the recyclers in your area to see if they have taken in the metal the owner reported missing. Then the cops will find you. The recyclers may call the cops to see if there is anything on the list of stolen goods if something arouses his suspiction and if the recyclers wrote down your truck tag number, the cops could come visit you, if the material is on the list a stolen property. Put an ad in a free ad paper in your area and say you will haul off junk for free and you will probably get some freebies. Right now the prices are high for scrap I hear.

I was working for a bridge contractor a while back and a guy that had been a company general foreman for them for 20 years, hauled off several truck loads of scrap steel worth several thousand dollars. The guy and his two brothers who hauled the stuff off on the weekends when nobody was there, didn't just get fired, they all went to jail. The contractor we were working for was a subcontractor on the job and the steel ended up being the property of the main contractor over the whole job, unbeknown-st to the perps. Mister big pressed charges and the story did not end well for the bandits. Not only did these guys work like dogs loading the goods, they found themselves behind bars.

Scrap is worth enough now that the cops are on their toes and checking for stolen goods. Here thieves are stealing copper wire right off the utility poles and are wrecking air conditioner units beside folks houses and destroying these AC units that cost several thousand dollars, to steal a hundred dollars worth of copper. Times are tough and just like during the great depression lawlessness is on the rise.

[hamsterjill]

24. We have a once per year "bulky items" trash pickup.

We are usually give about ten days' notice as to when to have the items placed out at the curb. Almost immediately, you start seeing the pickups coming by with scavengers.

I'd have no problem with them if they simply put things that they didn't want back in a neat pile. But they tend to hurriedly go through the items left, leaving them in total disarray. It really makes the neighborhood look tacky for a few days until the city trucks come and do the final pick up.

But if this is my biggest gripe for a day...then I think it's something I can deal with!

[CTyankee]

27. Can't you just put the items out on the day of the pick up?

[hamsterjill]

37. Even if *I* do...not everyone in the neighborhood waits until the last day.

n/t

[RKP5637]

29. Here we had a scrap metal drive and some jerks started stealing stuff

out of any open cars in driveways. I guess they got confused.

[1-Old-Man]

30. You used to see junk cars everywhere out here in the country ... no more

Scrap metal prices are what keeps junk cars out of yards out in rural areas.

[hollysmom]

33. The issue is I put my stuff out in town recycling trash bins

The town picks it up and sells it. There is a paper mill close by that buy s the paper, there is a plastic/wood mill that combins the plastic with wood scraps and makes that new composit wood.

If I put out something on my lawn not recycling day and someone takes it - fine - I have had people take old couches (upholstery store around the corner, pretty sure it is them. ) I put out old air conditioners, and they are gone in a flash (midnight at christmas, gone by 1 AM. I am fine with that. But if I put out my town recycling that they are going to use it for what it is intended, I am not happy. Turned one person in,. saw his truck picking up my can recycling only, got his license and turned him in. The town project is self sustaining, don't want to have to add more taxes to pay for it.

[Jamastiene]

36. In the case you mention with the file cabinet, I would say it is a good thing.

As long as someone isn't stealing the metal, I don't see a problem with it. I look at it like this: While I am sure the recycle centers stay up and running because they can use the metal for money to run the place, I also think on average there will be a mixture of actions people take. Some people will "free-cycle" metal that is still in a usable form and others will take it to be recycled. Both of those actions keep it out of landfills and do a good service for our communities. I seriously doubt a file cabinet here or there is going to make or break the recycle centers of the world. If something is still in usable form, I'd say it is a good thing to let someone take it and get more use out of it.

[Warpy]

38. No, because there's at least an equal chance

that file cabinet will be picked up by a neighbor who needs a file cabinet, not a couple of bucks at a scrap yard.

It's not the same as putting a bag of flattened steel or aluminum cans out there. That's the kind of scrap metal most cities recycle for profit.

I get pretty angry when I see people picking up bags of cans at curbside recycling. That really is theft from the city. Now we have special recycling wheelie bins and it isn't as big a problem.

In your case, you're recycling a large item that can be used as it was designed to be used and that's a bit different.

[CTyankee]

41. well, mine was hypothetical even tho I do have old metal file cabinets I'd like

to get rid of. I will probably call the city and arrange a big trash day pickup for them when the time comes that we move. I'd prefer one efficient pick up with a save for the city budget to relying on a bunch of scrap metal hijackers. But that's just me. Once upon a time there might have been people interested in the file cabinet for re-use. In today's economy, not so much...

[Warpy]

44. Actually, people are interested in them, so put them out early

Hints for clothing storage for poor people suggest old and either cheap or free file cabinets instead of expensive chests of drawers.

[madrchsod]

40. there`s a women in my town who asks for aluminum cans

she takes aluminum cans from the recycle bins,cashes them in,and donates the money to local agencies.

[DonRedwood]

42. someone "scavenged" my very cool 1950s metal lawn chairs OUT OF MY FENCED BACKYARD

sigh.... we feel violated AND we lost the coolest chairs ever.

Somebody had a lot of brass to do that though...came all the way up next to the house, looked over the wooden fence, opened the gate and made off with them.

:0( BEST chairs ever.

[CTyankee]

49. sorry to hear that. It's sad when that happens...

[PD Turk]

43. I make a buck or two scrapping metal

I have a friend who does remodel work and from time to time he'll bring me old non-working appliances he's removed that are beyond repair. I cut them up and otherwise break them down into the various metals, aluminum, brass, copper and when I get enough and the price takes a jump I'll make a run to the scrapyard. I've made a dollar or two over the years doing it

[rsweets]

51. if i'm to lazy to take it to the yard

i just leave it out front. Always gets pick up... i know it's being recycled.

[CTyankee]

52. I try not to do that. For one thing, I leave large bags of clothing for

Big Brothers/Big Sisters to pick up (their trucks come by very early in the a.m. so I leave it out the night before). I put them close to my front door and hope nobody other than BB/BS sees them. I don't want them taken away by anybody else...

[LeftinOH]

53. It's a bad thing when they steal metal from your property, which happened to me.

Aluminum ladders, exterior air conditioning unit, chain link fence. I've had serious trouble keeping "salvagers" off of my property.

[vinny9698]

58. American Pickers do it for a living, scavenging

They even have a TV program.

[ck4829]

59. It's what people used to do if they couldn't otherwise find work

Rag-and-bone men will probably start to make a comeback in the near future.

[Praetor1]

62. Problems, problems, problems.

I'm facing an issue that i can't seem to find the legal right to. At my job we're told, by only one person, our manager, to turn in metal for recycling. when we receive money for the metal we submitted, the manager doesn't want anything to do with the money. He doesn't even want to touch the money, much less handle any part of it...except...when it comes to "divvying" up the money. now, my supervisor and I are the only ones doing the work of collecting old junk metal, at times, we have help from other fellow employees, that is, at times, when they feel like helping, literally. so, after we submit the metal for cash, our manager tells us to divide up the money between, up to four other people, who, more likely, didn't even help. shorting me of hard, earned cash. i expressed my concerns to my supervisor, and he just gives me a blanket statement, "I know, I know I wish i can give you more, but "rick" said to divide it up to "these people", too. I want to know if there is a law that will protect my concerns or if I have legal precedence, to that cash. this is all in the state of Connecticut.

this is what i feel, and though its my feelings, i understand them not to be law, but it goes as follows:

My supervisor and I are the main two people to pile together any metal to be turned in for cash.
We are on company time, using company vehicles under the Manager's direction, to get rid of said "trash", if you will.
trash, of any sort, is public domain. leaving what we collect as our claim, correct?
giving us every right to say and do what we want with it, right?
including any funds raised from it, at best?
at worst, we're to compensate the company, gas[moneys] for the company vehicle we used? but then comes the question of doing such, under the direction of our manager, on company time?
I, in no way, am not dependent on any moneys collected in this manner, its just a convenient way to gain extra recreational/expendable cash for the weekends. i don't mind, at all to split the money...to those who put the work into it, also. can anyone help, guide, or explain it, given all that I've posted? I'm peeved that the manager doesn't want anything to do with the money, yet he wants to delegate to who gets what and how we divide it up. and he wants us to do so to people who didn't even have a hand in it, let alone, not being in the general area to earn any part of the money. and the clincher, in all of this? The general Manager doesn't know any of this is going on. again, can anyone help? Do i have a legal right, to stand on?

[WePurrsevere]

63. Hi and welcome...

I'm not a lawyer so please take this with a grain of salt.

You're collecting scrap from your work place, while you're on the clock, using the company vehicle to turn it in and get cash for it... If my manager had me doing that without the knowledge of the upper management or owner I'd feel 'very' odd about it and personally I wouldn't do it unless I was 'sure' my butt was covered because technically, and I'm fairly sure legally, that scrap metal $$ belongs to the company and if the owner finds out and wants to be a jerk you could end up in hot water.

If the scrap was in a dumpster or such so definitely garbage you'd probably be okay (but I'm not 100% sure of that in CT) taking it in for recycling/cash on 'your' time and in 'your' vehicle to get cash for it.

So I guess the answer to your question is... I'm sorry but I don't think you have a legal leg to stand, on because of what I said above, but I'm not a lawyer, just someone who's been around the block a time or 20.