General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThey stole it in 2000,
They stole it in 2016.
I don't fucking care how much Biden leads in the polls, we cannot let Trump and the GOP get close enough to steal another election.
GOTV! Stop their "poll watchers". Fight their voter suppression. Do not let anyone think we have it in the bag. Make sure Biden wins by a big enough margin in the Swing States that they can't steal it again.
diane in sf
(3,918 posts)for McCain in 2008.
He was sure the fix was in in Ohio. Obama's numbers were too strong for him to steal it.
Jeebo
(2,026 posts)There was an election in which some group of hackers managed to hack into a web site where the fix was going to happen. They put a password on that site and, according to the reports I remember, on election night the vote-riggers made dozens of attempts to guess that password. I just remembered the name of the hackers' group, I think it was Anonymous. Are you sure that was 2008 and not 2012?
-- Ron
dflprincess
(28,082 posts)I recall Karl Rove becoming apoplectic as things did not go the way he said they would.
edhopper
(33,606 posts)refreshing my memory.
Grasswire2
(13,571 posts)Karl Rove.
He's been called in to help Trump in recent weeks.
edhopper
(33,606 posts)I have heard Kerry say he thinks it was stolen.
lostnfound
(16,189 posts)Unless a bunch of democrats who voted for Gore in 2000 decided to vote for Bush in 2004, and those voters happened to be living in large counties running particular versions of the central tabulator software.
live love laugh
(13,124 posts)On election night watching all those states turn red ... I was gobsmacked. The only way that Bush got a second term was theft.
And its the only way Trump will.
Hotler
(11,443 posts)Jeebo
(2,026 posts)There was a reporter in Arizona, I think, and I can't remember the reporter's name, and I am reporting this to y'all from memory almost 20 years later, but during the post-election media recount of the Florida ballots, the reporter noted a really suspicious anomaly reported by the media officials who participated in the recount. There were different kinds of over-vote ballots in Florida. There were ballots that contained a vote for Gore and somebody else, and ballots that contained a vote for Bush and somebody else, and there were ballots that contained votes for both Gore and Bush. The really weird thing about the Bush-Gore over-vote ballots, the reporter noted, was that they were ALL in punch-card counties. None of them were in those counties where you filled in an oval with a felt pen, they were only in the counties were you punched through a card. Think about that. Most of those punch-card counties were in heavily Democratic areas, and a lot of them were in south Florida counties like Broward and Dade.
Now, think about this for a moment. If you were a Republican-leaning vote counter who wanted Bush to win the election and you were determined to rig the election to make sure Bush won, how would you accomplish that on election night? You could alter the ballots in those counties where a felt tip pen filled in an oval, but you would have to alter those ballots one at a time. The time it would take would be prohibitive. But in the punch card counties, you could just stack up the ballots a few dozen thick and punch them through the Bush hole and thus alter a lot of ballots in a short time. That would not affect the Bush votes, they would still be Bush votes, but it would turn the Gore votes into ... Gore-Bush over-vote ballots! Thus ruining only Gore ballots in the heavily Democratic counties. And probably a lot of them.
I have believed ever since reading that Arizona reporter's article that this is exactly what happened. There were some Republican-leaning elections officials in those south Florida counties who were waiting until late on election night to see just how many Gore ballots needed to be ruined to ensure that Bush would win Florida, and then they counted up that many ballots, calculating the percentages to figure out how many of them would be Gore votes, and then mass-punched through the Bush punch to ruin just enough Gore ballots to make sure Bush won. That would explain why those south Florida counties' results were reported so late on election night. I sat up into the wee hours on that night watching election returns, and I remember being aware at the time that those results were being reported really late. This would also explain why the final official tally in Florida was so close. It was 537 votes out of six million cast, as I recall. They were able to fix only barely enough of the ballots to fix the election. And the reporter whose name I can't remember said that at the Bush family Thanksgiving dinner a few weeks later, they were angry at those Republican vote-fixers for letting it get so razor-thin.
That is, as best I can recall almost 20 years later, what happened in Florida on election night in November 2000. I really do believe this is what happened, and I keep hoping, probably unrealistically and foolishly, that some day, there will be a conscience-ridden south Florida elections official who will make a deathbed confession revealing this publicly.
-- Ron
live love laugh
(13,124 posts)makes total sense.
Awsi Dooger
(14,565 posts)Palm Beach County got all the headlines for the butterfly ballot but it was something like 20 counties had multi page or butterfly ballots. Voters would turn the page and assume they had to vote again. That second vote nullified the first vote, which often was for Gore. He was losing net votes all over the state, with the most famous example all the double votes for Gore and Pat Buchanon. Even Buchanon conceded those votes were intended for Gore and not himself.
Florida 2000 was a disaster all over the place, from the scrubbed voter rolls by Jeb Bush to the ballot designs to the Supreme Court decision, which obviously would have gone the other way if Bush trailed by 537. I believe Bill Clinton is correct that the vote would have been 9-0 to proceed with the recount under that scenario.
Democrats have done a terrible job of inspecting all the little matters, which really aren't little at all. There were high numbers of under votes in Florida 2018 for the same reason, some awful ballot designs in certain counties that caused voters to fail to notice the race because it was buried underneath lengthy ballot instructions.
I have no idea why Democrats can't have operatives assigned to check ballot designs in each county. Even if not in charge they can scream like hell to media, and warn voters beforehand, when the designs are incompetent and destined to lead to over votes or under votes.
brooklynite
(94,703 posts)...and if he'd won any of the TEN States he lost than Clinton had won, Florida would have been meaningless. Yes, protect the vote. But start with a strong, positive campaign. Biden is a far better candidate.
Heartstrings
(7,349 posts)Its not really a poll, but after 2016 I trust no polls.
Hip2bSquare
(291 posts)This must be shouted from the rooftops. We can't get comfortable...everyone and then some need to vote. It'll be hard this year. I heard new voter registrations are down, not sure if it's because of the virus or the lack of knowledge of just how important this election is. But, we have to vote.
This administration MUST be removed... or I may be the one investing in a bunker!!
CaptainTruth
(6,600 posts)NRaleighLiberal
(60,018 posts)proud patriot
(100,713 posts)I was a Dean supporter ... we can talk sometime (sigh)
soldierant
(6,914 posts)Last edited Fri Jun 19, 2020, 06:23 AM - Edit history (1)
but they are very different from the "poll watchers" the GOP is currently contemplating.
Legitimate ones - you might see one per party per precinct, and they don't look at people at all. They look at the roster of who has voted, compare it with their list, and use the information for GOTV. Because they are not allowed to interfere with the process, they may have to wait silently for the roster to become available, and/or give it up a few times and then get back to it, but if the precinct is not busty they are in and out very fast They are actual people as opposed to thugs. I know you were not talking about them - if they still exist.
Mr.Bill
(24,317 posts)those rosters have to be updated every hour and available at all times.
live love laugh
(13,124 posts)soldierant
(6,914 posts)However, since the kind of poll watchers I was referring to are appointed by the local party officials, I'd recommend talking to your local Democratic officials if you want to do that. More power to you. it'a a worthy plan.
Response to edhopper (Original post)
Rainbow Droid This message was self-deleted by its author.
edhopper
(33,606 posts)we must overwhelm the vote, so that their actions are not enough to steal the whole thing.
Response to edhopper (Reply #25)
Rainbow Droid This message was self-deleted by its author.
edhopper
(33,606 posts)There were people who voted for Obama in Michigan and Wisconsin who did not come out for Clinton. If they did, she would be President.
Demsrule86
(68,643 posts)Stein worked hard in the states Trump won.
edhopper
(33,606 posts)part of it.
Rainbow Droid
(722 posts)Accepting this is very, very difficult. I don't blame you for having faith in the system.
It's a lot like faith in God -- much easier and much more comforting to have it than not to have it.
The implications of there being no God are terrifying, but that doesn't mean God exists.
The implications of the system no longer working are terrifying, but that doesn't mean the system works.
edhopper
(33,606 posts)the condescension.
Demsrule86
(68,643 posts)fighting it. Biden is going to beat the crap out of Trump and I believe the polls may be understating how much Biden leads Trump.
edhopper
(33,606 posts)be vigilant about voter suppression. Watch the counting like hawks. And GOTV!!
Demsrule86
(68,643 posts)edhopper
(33,606 posts)all who can vote, will. We must not let them stop people from voting.