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StarfishSaver

(18,486 posts)
Mon Jun 15, 2020, 12:01 PM Jun 2020

I am really sick of having to explain why a black man who was shot in the back by a police officer

in violation of law and police procedure would have reason enough to be afraid of being harmed by the police even if he complied that he would resist arrest and run away.

C'mon people. Think.

33 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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I am really sick of having to explain why a black man who was shot in the back by a police officer (Original Post) StarfishSaver Jun 2020 OP
It has bothered me to read the excuses here on DU. The Velveteen Ocelot Jun 2020 #1
Same here. And in the final analysis the guy was shot in THE BACK. He was drunk but not driving! BComplex Jun 2020 #10
yup obamanut2012 Jun 2020 #12
Right Proud Liberal Dem Jun 2020 #22
Here's something to consider for law enforcement: ibegurpard Jun 2020 #2
I think it was ego because they'd have to tell their friends a drunk guy they had pinned escaped. JudyM Jun 2020 #5
The cops did nothing but escalate. The dude was asleep Mosby Jun 2020 #23
The high speed chase issue ibegurpard Jun 2020 #30
By the time he ran away they had already obtained his drivers license. Doreen Jun 2020 #24
All as stupid waste of life. So sad Nululu Jun 2020 #33
They had his car, his name. They could easily find him. Shanti Mama Jun 2020 #3
Whenever anyone asks me "Why would he be afraid of them?" StarfishSaver Jun 2020 #4
Well, StarfishSaver, I'm a hostile white woman, and any time you need one of us to scream BComplex Jun 2020 #13
Thanks, sis - I'll take you up on that! StarfishSaver Jun 2020 #15
.... BComplex Jun 2020 #19
Of course he had real reasons to fear that he would be harmed. Tom Rinaldo Jun 2020 #6
I find it fascinating that white "allies" on a Democratic website would actually insist that StarfishSaver Jun 2020 #8
Soooo many replies like this here, soooo many obamanut2012 Jun 2020 #14
There is never a cut and dried answer for what to do when you fear your life is at stake Tom Rinaldo Jun 2020 #20
There are a lot of people who still believe cops are what keep us safe, who believe that WhiskeyGrinder Jun 2020 #7
They see the police as the entity that protects them from us. StarfishSaver Jun 2020 #11
I've never been one of those people. Cops have been over-stepping their boundaries for BComplex Jun 2020 #17
You don't have to explain to me...it is self evident. It was murder pure and simple...and for those Demsrule86 Jun 2020 #9
I don't even think he necessarily aimed that taser Goodheart Jun 2020 #18
Thank you cally Jun 2020 #16
Apparently foot chases are too strenuous. Marcuse Jun 2020 #21
I do not blame you Gothmog Jun 2020 #25
Shot in the back mcar Jun 2020 #26
DU rec...nt SidDithers Jun 2020 #27
No excuse... electric_blue68 Jun 2020 #28
K&R betsuni Jun 2020 #29
I'm disappointed in a lot of people around here Bettie Jun 2020 #31
I don't want to live in a country where people are executed for things like that. ecstatic Jun 2020 #32

The Velveteen Ocelot

(116,066 posts)
1. It has bothered me to read the excuses here on DU.
Mon Jun 15, 2020, 12:10 PM
Jun 2020

Yes, the guy had a taser. So what? A taser is supposedly a non-lethal weapon, so if they wanted to arrest the guy why didn't the police respond with proportional force instead of deadly force? Especially by shooting him in the back. Even if it was appropriate to arrest him, and it might have been, a drunk guy armed only with a taser absolutely should not have been shot in the back. He was running away, FFS. There are no excuses for shooting him. None.

BComplex

(8,097 posts)
10. Same here. And in the final analysis the guy was shot in THE BACK. He was drunk but not driving!
Mon Jun 15, 2020, 12:45 PM
Jun 2020

They had his car!
There is no death penalty approved anywhere in these United States for being drunk.

The police in this country have WAY too much power, and that has to stop.

Proud Liberal Dem

(24,464 posts)
22. Right
Mon Jun 15, 2020, 01:17 PM
Jun 2020

They can safely manage to arrest (white) people with lethal weapons. There is no excuse for this sort of thing.

ibegurpard

(16,685 posts)
2. Here's something to consider for law enforcement:
Mon Jun 15, 2020, 12:17 PM
Jun 2020

Just let the guy run away. Why cant you de-escalate the situation? The problem of him blocking the drive thru is gone.
It's about "obey my authority." And letting him get away is a hit to their pride. They aren't trained to solve problems. They are given hammers and taught that everything is a nail. That has to change.

JudyM

(29,294 posts)
5. I think it was ego because they'd have to tell their friends a drunk guy they had pinned escaped.
Mon Jun 15, 2020, 12:36 PM
Jun 2020

Mosby

(16,437 posts)
23. The cops did nothing but escalate. The dude was asleep
Mon Jun 15, 2020, 01:23 PM
Jun 2020

Everything that occurred is the fault of the cops.

He was guilty of drunk driving, but they treated him like he was a suicide bomber heading towards the White House.

The cops in CA had to rethink high speed chases which often resulted in deaths and serious injury, because it's beyond stupid to engage in a high speed chase for some guy who rolled thru a stop sign.

The police departments in the country need to all be retrained, and the unions need to have their influence curtailed.

ibegurpard

(16,685 posts)
30. The high speed chase issue
Mon Jun 15, 2020, 08:03 PM
Jun 2020

Is a perfect example of how cops have been trained to de-escalate. Why can they not apply that rationale across the board? Because we've got a force full of "obey muh authoriteh" types who take particular exception to "uppity" black people.

Doreen

(11,686 posts)
24. By the time he ran away they had already obtained his drivers license.
Mon Jun 15, 2020, 01:25 PM
Jun 2020

They knew then where to find him so shooting him was unnecessary. They could have chased him until they caught him but that was to much work fo them. If they were seriously worried about finding him then they could have gotten a K-9. K-9's are usually more likely than not at finding who/what they are asked to find. There were many things they could have done but they didn't.

Nululu

(842 posts)
33. All as stupid waste of life. So sad
Tue Jun 16, 2020, 04:43 PM
Jun 2020

He did not deserve to die.

They could tow his car, issue a warrant, let him get picked up later or turn himself in.

 

StarfishSaver

(18,486 posts)
4. Whenever anyone asks me "Why would he be afraid of them?"
Mon Jun 15, 2020, 12:25 PM
Jun 2020

I'm tempted to scream, "Because they KILLED him, mother fu#ker! THAT's why!"

But that would make me a hostile black woman, so I just patiently expain it AGAIN ...

BComplex

(8,097 posts)
13. Well, StarfishSaver, I'm a hostile white woman, and any time you need one of us to scream
Mon Jun 15, 2020, 12:50 PM
Jun 2020

that for you please just let me know! I'm on it!

Hell yeah he had reason to be afraid! That's what the marches have been saying for the past almost 3 weeks!

WTF?? I can't believe any DUers would think otherwise. There was NO fucking excuse to kill him!

Tom Rinaldo

(22,919 posts)
6. Of course he had real reasons to fear that he would be harmed.
Mon Jun 15, 2020, 12:38 PM
Jun 2020

Four police officers had just lynched a defenseless black man in their custody in public only a few weeks ago. I'm a white man. I don't hear about 1/100th of the cases of police maltreatment of blacks under police control, and even I know enough to know that the results of any encounter African Americans have with the police are uncertain, even if most times those fears don't materialize - that time.

The thing about fear is that it is destabilizing. Very few people remain cool calm and collected while experiencing a surge of fear. Throw some alcohol into the mix on top of that and sometimes people can act in a manner that, in hindsight, was not in their best interests. It is easy for me to sit here in the peace and safety of my home office and say that Rayshard made some poor decisions, and yes that's what I think. He had to make a snap judgement and he made one. Now he is dead, and he did not deserve to die.

Sitting here with my white privilege intact it seems obvious to me that it was very unlikely that those cops would have seriously harmed Rashard had he not resisted arrest. After all they had interacted with him in a non threatening manner for the half hour preceding that attempted arrest. You know what the key word in my last sentence is? It's the word "unlikely". Not inconceivable, not impossible, not unprecedented, just "unlikely." I repeat, just unlikely. But yes literally conceivable, yes literally possible, and absolutely with strong precedent that Rayshard might have suffered serious harm had he not resisted arrest. That is the type of chilling reality that someone like me doesn't have to give much thought to, but Rayshard had to.

Maybe if he were cold hard sober he would have calculated the odds differently, and surrendered himself into police custody. Maybe had George Floyd not been lynched by the police while in their custody three weeks prior Rayshard would have calculated the odds differently and not resisted that arrest. Maybe this, maybe that, but the fear he felt was real and his reasons for feeling that fear were real. Black tombstones prove it.

 

StarfishSaver

(18,486 posts)
8. I find it fascinating that white "allies" on a Democratic website would actually insist that
Mon Jun 15, 2020, 12:41 PM
Jun 2020

a black man truly afraid of the police would not fight them.

If you are afraid of someone, you attack them? That's a normal reaction?

Trying to arrest and handcuff someone is wrong? Police officers should never do that?


I'd say such tone-deafness is "unbelievable" among a professed progressive, but, sadly, it's very believable.

Tom Rinaldo

(22,919 posts)
20. There is never a cut and dried answer for what to do when you fear your life is at stake
Mon Jun 15, 2020, 12:59 PM
Jun 2020

Do you go along with a kidnappers instructions or do you try to kick him in the balls?

Fighting is always an option instead of complying if you fear that meek compliance could have deadly consequences.

And few whites have the experience to realize how unpredictable the behavior of police who apprehend a black "suspect" can be. Fighting back against cops is inherently dangerous which is why, I think it can be assumed, so many African American parents have "the talk" with their sons about how to behave if the police stop them. Understood, but how often does saying "Sir" and obediently trying to produce an ID when requested still result in death instead of safety?

WhiskeyGrinder

(22,538 posts)
7. There are a lot of people who still believe cops are what keep us safe, who believe that
Mon Jun 15, 2020, 12:41 PM
Jun 2020

authority is required to mitigate chaos, and that if people Would Just Follow The Rules, nothing bad would ever happen.

Demsrule86

(68,907 posts)
9. You don't have to explain to me...it is self evident. It was murder pure and simple...and for those
Mon Jun 15, 2020, 12:45 PM
Jun 2020

who opined he pointed the taser at cops...he was shot in the back. It was murder pure and simple. And what did the officer say at the end? "I got him".

Goodheart

(5,352 posts)
18. I don't even think he necessarily aimed that taser
Mon Jun 15, 2020, 12:52 PM
Jun 2020

It was more like reaching back to fire a "stop fucking chasing me!" sort of desperation message.

Gothmog

(146,101 posts)
25. I do not blame you
Mon Jun 15, 2020, 02:40 PM
Jun 2020

The use of deadly force is only permitted to save one's own life of the life of another. This man was not going to hurt anyone and there was no justification for the use of deadly force This is basic criminal law

Bettie

(16,152 posts)
31. I'm disappointed in a lot of people around here
Mon Jun 15, 2020, 08:10 PM
Jun 2020

who are looking for excuses to blame the victim here.

I'm sorry that white people are often so awful.

ecstatic

(32,816 posts)
32. I don't want to live in a country where people are executed for things like that.
Mon Jun 15, 2020, 08:12 PM
Jun 2020

We should all be on the same page about this. The longer people continue to make excuses for this shit, the longer it will continue. Enough!

Also, it shouldn't matter why Rashard did what he did. Afraid, intoxicated, whatever--it's just another distraction. Doesn't matter and did not warrant an execution.

It should be obvious to everyone by now that we have thousands of officers on the street who are terrified by their own shadows and shouldn't have access to guns. Don't go into policing if you're that damn afraid!

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