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kentuck

(111,110 posts)
Tue Jun 9, 2020, 06:10 AM Jun 2020

Trump says, "Don't believe the polls....believe the unemployment numbers".

Herr Leader has been really pissed with the latest poll numbers showing him far behind Joe Biden at this time in the race. He wants it investigated.

At the same time, he said nothing about the latest unemployment numbers from his Administration, which some say were off by about 5 million workers?

As usual, Herr Leader is very selective with the numbers he chooses to believe and accept.

31 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Trump says, "Don't believe the polls....believe the unemployment numbers". (Original Post) kentuck Jun 2020 OP
He got caught giving fraudulent phony job numbers duforsure Jun 2020 #1
Which Are Still 4x From When Obama Left Office ProfessorGAC Jun 2020 #2
He's good with numbers underpants Jun 2020 #3
He's the best president that ever had to work with numbers. 3Hotdogs Jun 2020 #15
Funny how he only believes the polls when the numbers are good for him FakeNoose Jun 2020 #4
He is a "reality star" who Scarsdale Jun 2020 #8
Yes all truth! FakeNoose Jun 2020 #28
Also seriously? Even if he lied about the job numbers Soph0571 Jun 2020 #5
Message auto-removed Name removed Jun 2020 #6
Oh My, This Is Going To Be Fun.... The Magistrate Jun 2020 #7
But Short Lived... JimGinPA Jun 2020 #10
I hate it when I miss it. I wish there was a way to see removed posts. Solomon Jun 2020 #11
Trump Support, Sir The Magistrate Jun 2020 #12
It was a load of ESL mispelled RW crap. BumRushDaShow Jun 2020 #14
Lets look at unemployment. From where it was pwb Jun 2020 #9
Turns out there's a chart for that gratuitous Jun 2020 #23
Wow this is shocking to see FakeNoose Jun 2020 #29
Do keep in mind, however gratuitous Jun 2020 #31
Does he really believe that touting 13.3% unemployment is good? SammyWinstonJack Jun 2020 #13
Yes he does. Trump says he hopes George Floyd is 'looking down' and seeing today's jobs numbers ... progree Jun 2020 #22
+1 uponit7771 Jun 2020 #25
When Obama was president, gab13by13 Jun 2020 #16
These numbers? edhopper Jun 2020 #17
That 20% figure, actually 14.7% + "almost 5 percentage points" error was for April progree Jun 2020 #24
BLS is full of shit, that's the 3rd month they made that "mistake" (their own wording) and no one .. uponit7771 Jun 2020 #26
True about the 3 months in a row and the continuing claims progree Jun 2020 #27
Trump math 2+25 or whatever turbinetree Jun 2020 #18
NO, "SOME" DID NOT SAY IT WAS OFF BY 5 MILLION, THE BUREAU OF LABOR STATISTICS -- progree Jun 2020 #19
Thanks for that clarification. kentuck Jun 2020 #20
You're welcome. I'm glad you don't seem to think it was directed at you, because it very progree Jun 2020 #21
Okay, I believe that 37.5 million people are out of work compliments of djt spanone Jun 2020 #30

duforsure

(11,885 posts)
1. He got caught giving fraudulent phony job numbers
Tue Jun 9, 2020, 06:45 AM
Jun 2020

And likely behind them doing it, and now is desperately trying to con people into believing anything he says as true. trumps always lied , and he's never been truthful when he uses them , so why would he use the real ones now . Same thing with polls, and likely he's corrupted some, and there is evidence he has been doing this , and he's corrupted the jobs lost numbers , and it could be around 60 million out of a job now, and nowhere near his claims. trump isn't capable of telling the truth , or stop being corrupt.

ProfessorGAC

(65,173 posts)
2. Which Are Still 4x From When Obama Left Office
Tue Jun 9, 2020, 06:50 AM
Jun 2020

Like selling a car because no rust when the engine is blown, the transmission is shot, and the strut mounts are broken.
"But, look how shiny it is!"
On Edit: what Donnie-boy boy is missing is that poll numbers are where they are because people DID look at the UE numbers!

Scarsdale

(9,426 posts)
8. He is a "reality star" who
Tue Jun 9, 2020, 07:25 AM
Jun 2020

refuses to face reality. He is so good with numbers, according to him when obviously he can not read the writing on the wall. All the protesters were cheering for him, I would imagine. The enablers surrounding him are not doing him any favors by lying to him. He will HAVE to face reality soon. He is a loser, because he never was a winner. Only a cheat. A bloated, orange, repulsive, lying, unqualified, uneducated, dumb as a brick CHEAT. He should have spent more time actually doing the job instead of golfing and holding his Nazi rallies. More people would have avoided the Covid-19 pandemic if he had only read his daily briefings. He was busy watching Faux and taking advice from Hannity and Jared-of-no-trades Kushner. So now the entire country is in decline thanks to him and the gop cowards who are afraid of him.

FakeNoose

(32,757 posts)
28. Yes all truth!
Tue Jun 9, 2020, 12:30 PM
Jun 2020

The USA will be Chump's 7th bankruptcy. He's impoverishing us and killing as many as he can before he's finally kicked out of the White House.





Soph0571

(9,685 posts)
5. Also seriously? Even if he lied about the job numbers
Tue Jun 9, 2020, 07:22 AM
Jun 2020

40,000,000 unemployed is not really a great slogan, right? He is a fucking lying fuckwit of bigly proportions

Response to kentuck (Original post)

The Magistrate

(95,255 posts)
12. Trump Support, Sir
Tue Jun 9, 2020, 07:45 AM
Jun 2020

Said polling was usually wrong, so he was right, unemployment number was the way to go. Poor spelling and grammar as well....

FakeNoose

(32,757 posts)
29. Wow this is shocking to see
Tue Jun 9, 2020, 12:35 PM
Jun 2020

I wonder how this 2020 recession compares to 1929.

Of course 1929 was the beginning of the Depression, and I'm wondering if that's where we are headed now? This is scary.

gratuitous

(82,849 posts)
31. Do keep in mind, however
Tue Jun 9, 2020, 12:49 PM
Jun 2020

That that little fish hook at the end of the current unemployment spike (more like a stalactite) is exaggerated a little bit, thanks to the Bureau of Labor Statistics' admitted screw up that they just can't help making.

SammyWinstonJack

(44,130 posts)
13. Does he really believe that touting 13.3% unemployment is good?
Tue Jun 9, 2020, 07:49 AM
Jun 2020
He's so detached from reality if he thinks that is a winning strategy.

progree

(10,918 posts)
22. Yes he does. Trump says he hopes George Floyd is 'looking down' and seeing today's jobs numbers ...
Tue Jun 9, 2020, 09:02 AM
Jun 2020
https://www.democraticunderground.com/10142508011
Donald Trump says he hopes George Floyd, who was killed by police on Memorial Day after an officer forced his knee on the back of his neck for nearly nine minutes while facing the ground in handcuffs, is "looking down right now" and saying today is a "great thing that's happening for our country" as the nation's unemployment rate declined but remains higher than during the Great Recession.

The president said: "Hopefully George is looking down right now and saying, 'This is a great thing that's happening for our country. It's a great day for him, it's a great day for everybody. It's a great day for everybody. This is a great, great day."

Asked how the rate of unemployment among black Americans can be considered a "victory" as it continues to increase, the president told a reporter outside the White House, "You are really something."

# Black unemployment rate https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS14000006
First 5 months of 2020: 6.0, 5.8, 6.7, 16.7, 16.8 Trump in 2016: "what have you got to lose?"

# White unemployment rate https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/LNS14000003
First 5 months of 2020: 3.1, 3.1, 4.0, 14.2, 12.4

(and by the way, none of the above have been corrected for the "about 3 percentage point" error that the BLS admits to in its overall unemployment rate (see my #19). So if these were corrected, they would all be higher in March, April, and May.

BTW, the corrected overall unemployment rates for April and May are "almost 19.7% and "about 16.3%" rather than the 14.7% and 13.3% official numbers)

progree

(10,918 posts)
24. That 20% figure, actually 14.7% + "almost 5 percentage points" error was for April
Tue Jun 9, 2020, 09:15 AM
Jun 2020

The May UR figure is 13.3% + "about 3 percentage points".

uponit7771

(90,364 posts)
26. BLS is full of shit, that's the 3rd month they made that "mistake" (their own wording) and no one ..
Tue Jun 9, 2020, 09:23 AM
Jun 2020

... wants to explain how the continuing claims and the LFPR go up by the U3 UE goes down.

Red Don has politicized everything around him, there's no need to think BLS isn't one of them

progree

(10,918 posts)
27. True about the 3 months in a row and the continuing claims
Tue Jun 9, 2020, 09:56 AM
Jun 2020

About the 3 months in a row on the BLS-admitted error in the unemployment rate, I posted here in this thread and in more detail at:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=13560715
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=13560826

and endlessly all over the place for more than a month (I've posted a lot about this problem in the April report too).

But the LFPR did go up from 60.2% in April to 60.8% in May. (The LFPR is not affected by the correction, BTW, since Labor Force = Employed + officially Unemployed, and the admitted error was classifying some officially Unemployed as Employed. I use the wording "officially unemployed" which requires that someone have looked for work in the past 4 weeks to be counted in that statistic -- which is different than how most of us think of unemployed).

And the separate and different Establishment Survey (with different rules) reported a 2.5 million jobs gain from April to May.

You're right about continued claims going up:

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/CCSA
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/data/CCSA.txt
Continued Claims, week ending
2020-04-18 18011000 <- week ending 4/18. The BLS sample week for UR was 4/12 - 4/18
2020-04-25 22377000
2020-05-02 22548000
2020-05-09 24912000
2020-05-16 20838000 <- week ending 5/16. The BLS sample week for UR was 5/10 - 5/16
2020-05-23 21487000

Whereas the corrected number of unemployed from Friday's jobs report is about 25.718 M
obtained via taking the official number: 20.985 million
and ratioing it up by the corrected official unemployment rate / official unemployment rate

20.985 M * 16.3%/13.3% = 25.718 M

And whereas the corrected UR incongruously went down from "almost" 19.7% to "about" 16.3%

That said, the BLS UR comes from a survey of 60,000 households done during the sample week that includes the 12th of the month.

The unemployment claims comes from the state unemployment offices and are people filing claims. (Not counted: those who haven't filed claims or have tried over and over and over again and again and haven't succeeded. I don't know how claims filed but rejected or not yet accepted are counted or not).

They are different sources using widely different methodologies for different purposes. But I would expect the actual officially unemployed, as obtained in the Household Survey, to considerably exceed by a large margin those who are continuing to claim unemployment benefits beyond 1 week. So I don't know what to tell you about that.

But I'm not an expert on this subject, and I don't know anyone on DU that is. I will wait for someone with acknowledged expertise in this area (and not just some rando pundit) to explain that and how the two sets of data cannot possibly exist at the same time -- at least one must be wrong (above and beyond the already admitted March, April, and May errors, sigh).

progree

(10,918 posts)
19. NO, "SOME" DID NOT SAY IT WAS OFF BY 5 MILLION, THE BUREAU OF LABOR STATISTICS --
Tue Jun 9, 2020, 08:33 AM
Jun 2020

the authors of the jobs report that came out Friday -- said the unemployment rate was low by "about 3 percentage points" -- that error translates into about 4.7 million additional unemployed, or 5 million with rounding.

So it's not anything that is in dispute, when the organization that is responsible for producing the report says its low by about 3 percentage points. If "some" say that it was off by 5 million or 4.7 million and 3 percentage points, that's great, they should, because the BLS admits it and tells us right in the original report (except they only tell us "about 3 percentage points", and leave it to us to do the math.)

If "some others" don't say it's off, they are simply ignorant.

(And all this is aside from the discussion about how 25.72 million -- the corrected number of unemployed in the May report -- again something left to us to do the correction -- is only a little higher than the 21.49 million continuing claims for unemployment insurance benefits in their latest report of that, Thursday, 6/4/20)

This is from the report that came out Friday 830 AM ET -- at the same time as the original (and only) report's release (just to dispel another common myth -- it was not some correction they made later. Another myth: they corrected it. No they did not, the only "correction" they made was to tell us the unemployment rate was wrong by about 3 percentage points. They never actually provided a corrected figure. In fact, they explicitely said they didn't correct it).

https://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm

_____________________________________________________________________
|
|
| Coronavirus (COVID-19) Impact on May 2020 Establishment and Household Survey Data
|
|
| Data collection for both surveys was affected by the coronavirus (COVID-19) pandemic.
| In the establishment survey, approximately one-fifth of the data is collected at four
| regional data collection centers. Although these centers were closed, about three-
| quarters of the interviewers at these centers worked remotely to collect data by
| telephone. Additionally, BLS encouraged businesses to report electronically. The
| collection rate for the establishment survey in May was 69 percent, slightly lower
| than collection rates prior to the pandemic. The household survey is generally
| collected through in-person and telephone interviews, but personal interviews were
| not conducted for the safety of interviewers and respondents. The household survey
| response rate, at 67 percent, was about 15 percentage points lower than in months
| prior to the pandemic.
|
| In the establishment survey, workers who are paid by their employer for all or any
| part of the pay period including the 12th of the month are counted as employed, even
| if they were not actually at their jobs. Workers who are temporarily or permanently
| absent from their jobs and are not being paid are not counted as employed, even if
| they are continuing to receive benefits.
|
| The estimation methods used in the establishment survey were the same for May as they
| were for April. However, after further research, BLS extended the modifications that
| were made to the April birth-death model back to March, which accounted for a portion
| of the revision to March data. For more information, see
| www.bls.gov/cps/employment-situation-covid19-faq-may-2020.pdf.
|
| In the household survey, individuals are classified as employed, unemployed, or not
| in the labor force based on their answers to a series of questions about their
| activities during the survey reference week (May 10th through May 16th). Workers who
| indicate they were not working during the entire survey reference week and expect to
| be recalled to their jobs should be classified as unemployed on temporary layoff. In
| May, a large number of persons were classified as unemployed on temporary layoff.
|
| However, there was also a large number of workers who were classified as employed but
| absent from work. As was the case in March and April, household survey interviewers
| were instructed to classify employed persons absent from work due to coronavirus-
| related business closures as unemployed on temporary layoff. However, it is apparent
| that not all such workers were so classified. BLS and the Census Bureau are
| investigating why this misclassification error continues to occur and are taking
| additional steps to address the issue.
|
| If the workers who were recorded as employed but absent from work due to "other
| reasons" (over and above the number absent for other reasons in a typical May) had
| been classified as unemployed on temporary layoff, the overall unemployment rate
| would have been about 3 percentage points higher than reported (on a not seasonally
| adjusted basis). However, according to usual practice, the data from the household
| survey are accepted as recorded. To maintain data integrity, no ad hoc actions are
| taken to reclassify survey responses.

|
| More information is available at
| www.bls.gov/cps/employment-situation-covid19-faq-may-2020.pdf.
||_____________________________________________________________________


So the official unemployment rate, which in their report is 13.3%, is low by "about 3 percentage points" meaning that it should be "about" 16.3%. But it was left up to the reader to do the math. And to seasonally adjust the "about 3 percentage points". Nice.

What's more, it happened in March ("almost 1 percentage point" ) and April ("almost 5 percentage points" )

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=13560715

and what's more, it's not just one or two numbers that are wrong (and uncorrected in the report or on their website or anywhere else). Its a whole slew of subdemographics of the unemployment rate and the unemployed numbers --

black unemployment, white, male, female, the different age groups, U-4, U-5, U-6, And their demographic subgroups, states and other geographic entities. And the Employed numbers and subdemographics.


https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=13560826

progree

(10,918 posts)
21. You're welcome. I'm glad you don't seem to think it was directed at you, because it very
Tue Jun 9, 2020, 08:51 AM
Jun 2020

definitely wasn't. There is so much understandable confusion on this subject. (The only understandable thing about this subject, is that the confusion is understandable, LOL)

I've been spending about half the time I have had available since the report came out Friday morning up through now and continuing no doubt for days more, dealing with misunderstandings about it.

And thanks much for the thread

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