If you are not AntiFa you are ProFa. You choose.

[Edwcraig]

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/2567bggecVAKFeCFfq9IHJYOSKvIAxLpdBtZRL0_j3pF3GEJJJasbXi3OVlrWkqnWQjoKStl3faoW-7yNgm6wY580wV70Kw23LQc-LRIhxwBUr91fiwkKEEzF_nv

[former9thward]

1. Really?

Do you think Joe Biden identifies himself as Antifa? So is he ProFa?

[Edwcraig]

3. yes.

[Demsrule86]

31. Are you saying that Biden is pro-fascist? Really.

[Edwcraig]

62. He is Anti fascist. So yes he is AnitFa. But this not the point

Last edited Sat Jun 6, 2020, 05:10 PM - Edit history (1)

Democrats historically, when called a meaningless name like Socialist or AntiFa, spend time, as many are doing here, in doing a self examination to determine if the slur is true. Not smart. Who cares if it true. A defensive strategy. The smart is to turn the tables by responding with an offensive messaging. The offensive response to being branded as violent AntiFa "whatever that is" to make this binary in branding the opposition as ProFa. Pro fascist. I think Republican strategist are exposed here. Socialism is better for them. It is obtuse. Fascism has a history and a huge negative brand. We must turn this on them.

[eShirl]

4. Do you think he's neutral about fascism?

[former9thward]

12. No.

And I don't think Antifa holds the market on anti-fascism. Do you think Biden identities as Antifa?

[Cirque du So-What]

22. There's a market for anti-fascism? Can one buy stock in it?

AntiFa should show us their business plan, but they're somewhat reticent...almost as though nobody is in charge.

[TheBlackAdder]

41. That binary choice is kind of Sith-like. One of my neighbors is ambivolent & doesn't care either way

[Coventina]

2. Proud to be Antifa!!!

[LuvNewcastle]

5. I've never met anyone who claimed to be part of Antifa.

Looks to me like they're a RW myth. There might be some organized Antifa people in NYC or somewhere, but there aren't any around here.

[Squinch]

10. Nope. None in NYC either.

[LeftInTX]

54. I have

I'm in San Antonio

One guy threatens Democrats

[LuvNewcastle]

60. One guy is likely a case of mental illness.

[LeftInTX]

61. I know a few others too

They're plain old annoying and run the International Women's Day March here. Kinda militant and not very inclusive for a public event.

The event is peaceful though.

[vlyons]

6. Antifa is short for antiFascist

My father and all his brothers fought Fascists in WWII. One of his brothers gave his life doing so in the Battle of the Bulge. Why wouldn't every American be anti-Fascist? Trump and his cronies are neo-Fascists.

[Voltaire2]

9. Exactly.

My father was antifa and so am I.

[pwb]

7. Fa should be spelled out Fascist.

Antifa confuses dumb fuck pukes and cops they think it is anti America.

Antifa works for them. Anti fascist works for us. IMO.

[Squinch]

8. This is playing into Republican lies and propaganda by suggesting

there actually IS an antifa movement at work today, and that it's more than the figment of fevered conservative imaginations that it is.

Antifa, as the term is being used today, was invented by right wing radicals so they could point to an enemy that is as vile as they are and so they could justify their own violence.

The concept of antifa is usually pushed in Democratic spaces by right wing trolls. Getting us to cheer for antifa is an excellent way to make antifa look like a legitimate thing, and to get quotes to use to frighten the easily frightened right wing propaganda guzzlers.

Don't help them do this. There IS NO antifa. Don't legitimize it.

[Edwcraig]

16. Demonizing Your Political Opponent is a base Republican strategy

Appreciate your advocacy, but when Republicans demonized the word "liberal as being associated with socialism which is associated with Communism" all Democrats did is was responded in a feckless manner "oh not we are not" Democrats are communists is now embedded in the deplorable's minds. They are now attempting to brand Democrats as AntiFa and say that AntiFs is violent. They can then justify their own violent acts against Democrats. Walks like a duck, looks like a duck. It is a fascist. I believe we must fight fire with fire. We need to turn this derision against them and not let this go unchallenged. Thanks for your note.

[Squinch]

18. That's nice Edwin.

Enjoy your stay.

[MineralMan]

11. And a Warm Welcome to DU for You...

Good luck with your time here.

[skip fox]

13. Is this what is called "trolling"?

I'm not trying to "call someone out," but from what I've heard of trolling, this sounds like it.

[Edwcraig]

17. It is not.

[CentralMass]

14. Sorry I disagree.

The anti-tRump rioting in Portland back in November of 2016 after tRump won was unprovoked. After peaceful protesting a pack of black clad mask wearing club wielding thugs tore up the city. I'm not onboard with that.

[Ferrets are Cool]

30. And, looking back on it now, knowing what we know now...

how are you 100% certain that those mask wearing "thugs" were not white supremacists or the beginnings of Boogaloo?

[rgbecker]

38. Great report. Doesn't mention Antifa once but gives out this link.

[link:https://www.pdxresistance.org/events|


Portland Resistance. I guess all the 71 arrested were members but then don't really know. If this kind of group is what the RW and Barr is calling Antifa......sign me up.

[Ferrets are Cool]

51. +1

[rgbecker]

57. Maybe they were members of other groups that wear Black?

I forget what my premise was, but I'm pretty sure I have no idea who those guys are. Don't recognize one name. Haven't been to Portland since 1981 and can't remember much about it. Doubt if you're the Pope. So maybe we can agree we don't know who Barr is after, who protested in 2016 or who Antifa is. If we don't know who Antifa is or who is Antifa, then we will never find out if they reject vandalism and looting or embrace it. Put me down as a Democrat in favor of Peace, Love and Understanding....for now.

[link:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_bloc|

[CentralMass]

58. I'm on a cellphone and have the typing skills of a rock.

Looking at a few other videos from that 2016 riot th ed reporters and police seem to identify them as an anarchist group.

Regarding my own beliefs, I dont identify with any groups.

[FakeNoose]

15. AntiFa is a false label that's been created by fascists

Only the idiots are "for" fascism.

Every American with normal intelligence is "against" fascism, why wouldn't we be? But none of us have joined the AntiFa club because there is no such thing. So this is all posturing and false labeling, and it's coming from the ultra-right-wing trolls that have taken over the social media outlets.

Remember the days of debating Roe v. Wade and the people who opposed the ruling positioned themselves as "Pro-Life" because they didn't want to be called "Anti-Abortion"? Those who favored the ruling didn't want to be called "Anti-Life" which would have been ridiculous, so they labeled themselves "Pro-Choice." It's all a bunch of crazy labels and half the time they mask the true nature of their political leanings.

People are confused about the label AntiFa - and that's just what the ultra-right-wingers want: they want confusion, resentment, fear and anger. They want people to think "I don't know what this is, but it's something I need to be scared about."

[Edwcraig]

19. So respond by using ProFa as the alternative

Defuse.

[Squinch]

21. You're insisting we name a nonexistent organization. Why don't

you use your time instead fighting against the Citizens For Frosted Flakes.

Because, I mean, THOSE people are CRAZY!

[Squinch]

20. Great post. I would add: not only has none of us joined "antifa," but

none of us has even HEARD of anyone who joined "antifa."

None of us has any kind of first hand or hearsay information about antifa from anything but right wing sources.

No one has ever come forward who was a member and no action has ever been proven to have been perpetrated by them. When those who have been called antifa ARE caught and unmasked, they are invariably right wing agitators.

[rgbecker]

39. Careful! Too logical. Might get alerted.

[Celerity]

69. no, its a really poor post, historically blind

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=13555549

[Squinch]

71. And you think that is the antifa that bots are telling republicans

are going to invade small American towns by the busload?

Perhaps you are missing the context here.

[Squinch]

45. Did you know that Rose City is not a city at all? It's a little tiny neighborhood in

Portland, Oregon. Yes, the same Portland, Oregon that is home to lots and lots of right wing militia groups.

[Celerity]

68. you really need to read some history

AntiFa is a false label that's been created by fascists

Karl-Liebknecht-Haus, the KPD's headquarters from 1926 to 1933. The Antifaschistische Aktion (a.k.a. "Antifa" ) logo can be seen prominently displayed on the front of the building. The KPD leaders were arrested by the Gestapo in this building in January 1933, when Hitler became Chancellor. The plaques on either side of the door recall the building's history. Today it is the Berlin headquarters of the Left Party.

Trump's threat to label Antifa terrorist group triggers row in Germany

"I am Antifa" began trending in Germany after Trump said he might label the group a terror organization. Left-wing politicians hit back at the US president, while far-right politicians expressed support for the proposal

https://www.dw.com/en/trumps-threat-to-label-antifa-terrorist-group-triggers-row-in-germany/a-49780400

.

The hashtag #IchbinAntifa ("I am Antifa" ) began trending on Twitter in Germany on Sunday after US President Donald Trump said he was considering labeling the group a terrorist organization.

Antifa, which is short for anti-fascists, is a loose network comprised of radical left-wing activists that confront right-wing extremists, neo-Nazi groups and white supremacists.

On Saturday, the US president said that the new classification "would make it easier for police to do their jobs," and dubbed the anti-fascist group "gutless radical left wack jobs."

snip



The Origins of Antifa

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antifa

The Antifa movement has existed in different eras and incarnations; the original organisation called Antifa was Antifaschistische Aktion during the late history of the Weimar Republic until 1933.





The Antifa congress organised by the Communist Party of Germany (KPD) in 1932



The modern Antifa movement in Germany comprises different far-left, autonomous, militant groups and individuals who describe themselves as anti-fascist and usually use the abbreviation Antifa, and who regard the historical Antifaschistische Aktion or Antifa of the early 1930s as an inspiration. The modern Antifa movement ultimately has its origins in the student-based Außerparlamentarische Opposition (extra-parliamentary opposition) of the 1960s and early 1970s, and opposed the alleged "fascism" of the West German government. The earliest modern Antifa groups in this tradition were founded by the Maoist Communist League in the early 1970s. During the 1970s parts of the Außerparlamentarische Opposition were radicalized, culminating in the formation of terrorist groups like the Red Army Faction (RAF), the 2 June Movement and the Revolutionary Cells; some of the more radical elements within "Antifa" groups of the late 1970s had contact with the Red Army Faction and the Revolutionary Cells. From the late 1980s the squatter scene and autonomism movement were important in an upswing of the Antifa movement.

Unlike the original Antifaschistische Aktion, which had links to the Communist Party of Germany and which was concerned with industrial working-class politics, the late 1980s and early 1990s "autonomists" were instead independent "anti-authoritarian" Libertarian Marxists and anarcho-communists, not associated with any particular party. The publication Antifaschistisches Infoblatt was started in 1987.

Most modern Antifa groups were formed after the German reunification in 1990, mainly in the early part of the 1990s. For example, the Autonome Antifa (M) was established in Göttingen in 1990. The Antifaschistische Aktion Berlin, founded in 1993, became one of the more prominent groups. The Antifaschistische Aktion/Bundesweite Organisation was an umbrella organisation at the federal level that coordinated these groups across Germany. Aside from their violent clashes with ultra-nationalists, these groups participated in the annual May Day in Kreuzberg, which resulted in large-scale riots in 1987 and which have been characterized by a significant police presence.

[jmg257]

23. Woo hoo - new world order!!

Lets check the Antifa guidebook..

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1en7RmfNttXrBKDv7f2dqDNyh8i7ZrXvL/view


I’ll take C please.

[Squinch]

27. Clearly written by evil bad guys in ill lit rooms as they twirl

their long black mustaches and say, "Mwahahaha!" In an evil manner. So we will know they're evil.

Actually its kind of funny how transparent conservatives can be.

[jmg257]

40. Yeah - I'll pass...

Antifa, short for anti-fascist, is an amorphous movement of people who are opposed to fascism. They do not comprise an organized group, do not have a visible leadership, and acknowledge that they are secretive, so it is impossible to know how many people even count themselves as members. Anti-fascists lean strongly toward the left of the political spectrum, and many of them refer to themselves as socialists, anarchists, communists, or anti-capitalists. [/div]

[Maeve]

34. To be fair, there is a real handbook

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1612197035

Many of the reviews are total BS written by RW trolls

Edited to add this from Snopes:

Antifa, short for anti-fascist, is an amorphous movement of people who are opposed to fascism. They do not comprise an organized group, do not have a visible leadership, and acknowledge that they are secretive, so it is impossible to know how many people even count themselves as members. Anti-fascists lean strongly toward the left of the political spectrum, and many of them refer to themselves as socialists, anarchists, communists, or anti-capitalists. The positions of various antifa groups can also be difficult to define, but many of them support oppressed community members and protest against amassing of wealth by corporations.

Some antifa movements date their origins to the battle against European fascism in the 1920s and ’30s. The BBC cited Mark Bray, the author of “Antifa: The Anti-Fascist Handbook,” as an authority in noting that “[Bray] says the modern American Antifa movement began in the 1980s with a group called Anti-Racist Action. Its members confronted neo-Nazi skinheads at punk gigs in the American Midwest and elsewhere. By the early 2000s the Antifa movement was mostly dormant — until the rise of Donald Trump and the alt-right.”

Antifa groups are not monolithic and employ a range of tactics. Many condemn the use of violence, but according to BBC News, some groups engage in aggressive confrontations, especially with far-right groups on the streets. Extreme factions have carried pepper spray, bricks, knives, and chains with them.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/trump-antifa-terrorist/

[jmg257]

42. Thanks for the info - appreciate it!

[mathematic]

24. Do you believe the Democratic People's Republic of Korea is Democratic, too?

"Antifa" is a name of an ideological movement. They're trying to co-opt all opposition to fascism within their movement. They are wrong. They do not get to say only they are true opponents to fascists.

They take historical inspiration from the original Antifa of germany, which was run by a Stalinist and who's main political adversaries were social democrats (who they described as fascists upholding the power of Capital), not nazis.

This is just like how radical socialists today try to split liberals from the left. They use terms like neo-liberal to describe any liberal values and they have co-opted progressive to mean socialist values, in an attempt to give social democrats no political home.

[Squinch]

26. "The antifa movement" was made up by the far right.

This "they" you speak of does not exist.

[mathematic]

28. That's a weird conspiracy theory.

I'm more than a little confused on what you're claiming doesn't exist.

There's clearly a movement of people that believe in the things an "antifa movement" would believe in, if it existed. These people do show up to protests. Some of these people belong to organizations explicitly described as antifa, for example Rose City Antifa (https://rosecityantifa.org/). Are all these people right wing plants? Does nobody sincerely believe in revolutionary anti-capitalism?

[Squinch]

29. This website, named after a tiny neighborhood in Oregon is this violent nationwide terrorist

movement that everyone is talking about?

OK.

[mathematic]

36. Nice job moving the goalposts

You said that the antifa movement didn't exist. I showed that they do. Now you're saying, well maybe the antifa movement exists, but they're not a violent nationwide terrorist movement, which is a complete non sequitur to my original comment.

[Squinch]

44. No. I'm not saying it exists at all. I'm saying that your "proof" is silly.

[mathematic]

46. That's just gaslighting. Those people literally exist

I have leftists in my facebook feed literally posting antifa memes. Those people exist. They're not figments of my imagination or right wing plants.

[Squinch]

48. Suuuure they do. Memes are total proof!

Last edited Sat Jun 6, 2020, 02:04 PM - Edit history (1)

[madinmaryland]

64. Come on, dude! FDR and Dwight d. Eisenhower were the original Anti-Fascists.

It’s a belief, not an organization. There is no organization. Just because there are three guys in bath tub comparing penis sizes does not make an organization.

Just remember, the only good Nazi is a dead Nazi.

Are you anti fascist?

[mathematic]

70. No, the original Antifa were members of the Communist Party of Germany in the 20s

The OP here makes the claim that if you are not antifa you're pro-fascist. That is wrong. The original Antifa were communists and allied with the nazis against liberal social democrats. Their rhetoric claimed liberalism was fascism. No, I'm not antifa.

FDR and Eisenhower were indeed anti-fascists but they were not Antifa. That's the key point I'm making. "Antifa" doesn't get to be the only anti-fascist movement and not being "antifa" doesn't make you pro-fascism.

(Also note that I never said it was an organization, rather that it was a movement. You call it a belief, which is in concordance with my description of it as a movement).

[Iggo]

25. I'm anti- a lot of things, and fascism is one of those things.

However, I do not support nor am I a member of any anti-fascist group or organization.

[ismnotwasm]

35. Your link doesn't work

Also, no, that’s not how it works

[Peacetrain]

37. I will let you know what I am... keep your ASSumptions to yourself

sheesh

[rgbecker]

43. Read up on the Patriot Prayer group.

You'll learn more about "Antifa" from what some have consistently opposed than from what Barr is babbling about on National TV.

[link:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriot_Prayer|

Not everyone needs to join a group to oppose oppression but thank God there are groups that do.

[MineralMan]

47. What is at your link? I cannot see it. I get a 403 error.

Can you describe what that link is supposed to lead to?

[Squinch]

49. I get something called a "D-Day Visitor's Handbook, a guide to Normandy battlefields."

[MineralMan]

50. I get a 403 error.

This is the error message from Google:

403. That’s an error.

Your client does not have permission to get URL /proxy/2567bggecVAKFeCFfq9IHJYOSKvIAxLpdBtZRL0_j3pF3GEJJJasbXi3OVlrWkqnWQjoKStl3faoW-7yNgm6wY580wV70Kw23LQc-LRIhxwBUr91fiwkKEEzF_nv from this server. (Client IP address: 2601:448:8580 420:c590 609:ac13:52a)

Forbidden That’s all we know.

[rgbecker]

52. It is a link to a picture showing the cover of a guide to D-Day battle sites in France.

I'll put the link here...it works fine for me.

[link:https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/2567bggecVAKFeCFfq9IHJYOSKvIAxLpdBtZRL0_j3pF3GEJJJasbXi3OVlrWkqnWQjoKStl3faoW-7yNgm6wY580wV70Kw23LQc-LRIhxwBUr91fiwkKEEzF_nv|

MM...if you haven't read about Portland fights you might enjoy reading this. I'm really interested in Barr's interest in the "Antifa" yet lack of interest in the White Supremacists groups.

[link:https://rosecityantifa.org/articles/patriot-prayer-courts-tristen-barhite/|

[MineralMan]

53. It is not a binary thing at all.

I am neither of those things. You are incorrect.

Antifa could be a number of different things, depending on where on this planet you find yourself. It could be a violent movement of anarchists and extreme leftists. It could be a fake designation that has been usurped by people on the right.

There is no ProFa. It does not exist as any sort of organization whatsoever.

You are incorrect.

[Kashkakat v.2.0]

55. Calm down people, its just looking at meaning of words. I think it would be brilliant to apply the

word "Pro Fa" to the far RW nationalist/white supremacist/boogaloo crowd.

One all encompassing word for ALL OF THEM, pro-fascist or ProFa for short. Or how about Neo-fa (neo fascist)

Theres no reason why new words cant be created and put into common useage - it happens all the time.

[rgbecker]

65. Neofa. I like it.

Unfortunately you could use it to label almost all the police SWAT and rapid response teams, the ICE and the CBP that Barr and Trump scrapped up to defend the Jackson Statute in Lafayette park (or whatever they were concerned about)! The Michigan militia, the Proud Boys and all the rest of the gun nut white supremacists. Whether one name for all will gain anything over individual designations is another question. Sometimes lumping groups together simply clouds the conversation rather than clearing things up.

[skip fox]

59. Another mindless binary

in service of political self-righteousness, not applied with thought, and not with a hope of eventual comity.

[AntiFascist]

63. If someone asks if you are Antifa, you can reply that you are anti-fascist...

if they are synonymous then it shouldn't matter how you respond.

An anti-fascist activist should be keeping an eye on neo-fascist and related movements and, when it is appropriate, protecting people from them.

There may be those who overlap with Anarchist movements, but that is something separate. There are also plenty of right-wing anarchists, as we have seen.

[Raine]

66. No thanks, I refuse to play that game. 👎 nt

[Crunchy Frog]

67. I am opposed to fascism with every fiber of my being, and I am not Antifa.

Last edited Sat Jun 6, 2020, 07:48 PM - Edit history (1)

This is very divisive and inflammatory posting for someone who just joined.

What are you hoping to accomplish here?