So the rich got together and created a market for right wing propaganda at a time

[applegrove]

when there wasn't huge demand for it. But they put money and wedge issues into play, and many people were convinced to vote for this GOP and its right wing views based on hate and fear of others, not on what would be best for them if their feelings had been left unmolested over the years. And the right demanded equal time for their propaganda on the news. They went nuts when a black man was elected president and became the tea party. They no longer cared what their economic self interest was and voted that way. They got what they voted for: no employment and a crashing middle class. Then the OWS (99%) came along and woke people up a little. People took pleasure in being connected with a wider group all of a sudden, to fight for against what truly is hurting them: crony capitalism and crony political economy. And they felt relief at not having to feel hate and fear all the time.

How do get this narrative out there.

[Joe Shlabotnik]

1. good post, many good points.

My reply (opinion) in short:

1) The RW media onslaught started (I think) under Reagan when the 'fairness' doctrine got thrown out the window, as a violation of the 1st Amendment.

2) Yes, they went apeshit when Obama was elected, and I think much of the tea party base are old school racists. Granted (I know I can get killed for sayin' this on here), they brought up some valid issues, and the the actual people involved (albeit many racists) did not want to destroy the economy; they were just played. Played like useful dumb-asses. They were quickly co-opted by the 'Almighty Church of Corporations'.

3) As far as Occupy goes. Well... it's still starting. It will mature as the spring and summer go on. I wish more people would tune out from American Idol, and tune in to, (and re-evaluate) their values. The narrative will be spread by the Internet until it's shut down, but by then it'll be too late for the PTB. I spread the narrative everyday the old fashioned way, by talking face to face. How about you?

[applegrove]

2. I can't go to my local occupy group. I try and talk about occupy with others. I talk about it a lot

online. That is about it.

[Joe Shlabotnik]

3. Well, Good for you! Every bit counts. Keep at it.

There is no occupy group in my city, and for now I'm kind of glad, because my city isn't mature enough for one yet. St. Catharines was once a proud steel, paper, machinery and automotive producing place. Now it's full of retired seniors who watch their nightly news in fear, vote overwhelmingly conservative and won't acknowledge that anyone under 65 around here is struggling. It sickens me, but the moment has not yet arrived here.

[applegrove]

4. St. Catherines, Ontario? Another Cannuck? I'm from Ottawa.

Isn't this a great site the DU. I've learnt so much about politics here. And we need to keep up on what is going on in the USA because, if the neocons have their way, Canada is only about two decades behind the US. Most of the seniors I hang around with here are pretty liberal and don't want to see the right wing fantasies play out in Canada. Which is a relief. I think Occupy will reorient the left/centre around the world. We certainly need to bring our A game to politics because the right plays to keep and would have us all living like people in Pakistan live if they had their way.

[Joe Shlabotnik]

5. I agree with everything you said.

except about the seniors thing (but I think thats a local to local issue). But ya, I'm from THAT St. Catharines....... uggghhhh. And yep, we do need to bring our A game: short of a MASSIVE scandal (ie 'Harper busted at airport with child porn' kind of thing), were stuck with the neo-cons for years.

But another way to look at it is... we have 4 years to KILL them. Wipe them out like a bunch of Kim Campbell conservatives. Who knows. But I DO in my heart of hearts believe that the occupy thing is going to be a deciding factor, its been building since the Battle of Seattle in 99, resurfaced at the Toronto G20, anti-Iraq war protests, and all over in different incarnations like the union vs Scott Walker-soon-to-be-Recalled in Wisconsin thing.

Every time I hear bad news (arrests, violence etc) I always think of the Peter Gabriel Tune Biko. "You can blow out a Candle, But you CANNOT blow out a fire.... Once the wind begins to whip, the flames keep growing higher". Thats my internal mental toughness chant when it comes to things like the 99% movement.

[applegrove]

6. I don't see the 99% as the descendants of Toronto or Seattle because those events involved riots

and were not geared to the multiple realities that the 99% represents. Toronto and Seattle were far to the left in their views or trade and such. The 99% doesn't pretend to take one stand of issues like world trade. It focuses more on the inputs & outcomes of politics & policy choices such as the 1% having bought and paid for government that benefits only them. That is why the 99% will make a difference in the world, because it represents as many realities as there are people, not just the platform of the far left.

[Joe Shlabotnik]

8. Again I agree with everything you say (but this time in spirit)

I see your point about Seattle and G20. But my point was that a lot of activists for various causes have coalesced around Occupy, and thats why I mention them. If you read the crap from CBC; they'd have you believe that OWS started from a (wait for it...... aha....) a scrappy little CANDAIAN anti-consumerism rag. Well there is some truth to that, (And for reference sake I'm one of about 200 people who actually own print copies of Adbusters going back 10 years), but the important thing is, is, that this isn't some scrappy little protest, it's a MOVEMENT, evolving since before the Bush years. And briefly to your point about the riots: who started 'em? They were POLICE riots, totally different from drunken hockey fan riots.

[applegrove]

14. Yes Adbusters talked about a demonstration called occupy in September. Joseph Stieglitz wrote

an article about the 1% in may. And some people have been talking about inequality for years. The reality of government (and thus the economy) bought by the rich, for the rich, on the sly finally broke through. The genius of the 99% is that it allows so many realities to coexist in one movement.

[Joe Shlabotnik]

15. damn, you're hard to disagree with!

What people (ESPECIALLY THE MEDIA), forget is that movements can take years or decades to reach a critical mass-point. We live in a very short sighted, instant gratification, low attention span, cognitive-dissonant society. Granted we are in a new frontier with the internet and instant communication which has sped things along, but we're not quite there yet. Unfortunately, the complacent ones in society are not going to wake up one day and stop saying shit like....... (well (fuck it): you've heard all of the public's lame flames about hippies and turf damage). They are only going to wake up when they individually hurt. Again, time is on our side to get our A game together, and maybe some traditional concrete people/things/ideas/establishments etc will evolve as alternatives.

[applegrove]

16. But that is just it. With the internet ideas can bubble up from many. Same with OWS.

Perhaps we are in a post concrete/platform world where the media is the message, not the old way. The 1% does have control of the political and the media establishments. But if the 99% doesn't depend on those structures, then they have other ways to communicate ideas with the public and wake the public up. Getting people to think about their own economic best interest is how we get better equality (and do away with the warped economic ideals that brought us the subprime crisis and the refusal of the bankers to apologize). Of course the right wing would like the 99% to build some structure and lay out some platform that can then be attacked or nullified so they can go ahead with plans to undo unions and lower wages. Why give it to them? We know they will try and divide the 99% by playing up differences, as they have for the last 30 years. Many grassroots ideas have sprung up and are being implemented as we speak. No need to itemize them. Or put them forward to government for approval or corporate approval. Change happens on the ground anyhow. Leave the movement organic. The evolution of an idea to some change on the ground has taken place in many ways, most notably in the minds of the middle class. It's not broken. Don't fix it.

[Joe Shlabotnik]

17. +1, but just a few quick points before I fall asleep at my desk...

TV is dying. When the baby-boomers go, TV as we know it will be gone forever. So what we are doing now, and governments around the world (USA and Canada included) are doing, is trying to control OUR free and open source message, before WE take control of the national dialog.
Keep in mind that humans are humans too. In this regard, as you refer to 'getting people to realize what is in their own best interest' is only a first step to break the ruling oligarchies. As difficult as that may be, beyond that is much more difficult. Because people must re-evaluate their values. Unfortunately, many drowning people will clutch their jewelry, iphones and stupid shit. This is where not only BIG ideas need to come into play, but also a re-education to the masses of whats really important, ie environmental, and food sustainability, enshewing the politics of pandering, building trustworthy communities that are policed by good neighbours, not lorded over by law upon law upon law, enforced by ever-increasingly present militarized police.

uhhhhhh.... I'm burning out but I think you get the gist of what I'm saying..... "Change must first come from within" but its gonna be a massive effort. Ok, thats it for me for tonite, but thanks Applegrove, we always have great discussions! and we shall meet again, till next time, ttyl.

[applegrove]

18. See. I'm far to the left of many Americans what with wanting public health care and public day care.

But I'm to the right in that I want to see strong professional policing with as much up to date technology as possible. I'd much rather see that than any kind of private police.

Again, I don't think occupy should be about "re-education"of anybody. That is top down stuff. The 99% is about bottom up bubbling of ideas. People need to be free to express their own realities and the inequalities they face. And find solutions so they can foment change in their communities & around the world. A million little actions have made occupy a great force in only 3 months. Imagine if these million people had been given a laundry list of environmental things they should be conserned with. How that would have dulled the multitude of ideas then actions that did take place.

Anyway. Goodnight to you. It has been interesting.

[PETRUS]

7. Yep, dispatching with the fairness doctrine unleashed some crap.

But in some ways, the modern propaganda campaign began shortly after the 1971 Powell memo.

[Joe Shlabotnik]

9. Really, I honestly don't know about the 1971 Powell memo, I'd have to research that.

But here's the a point on (that on DU) that might not go over well: Actually I think in some ways the supreme court decision over the fairness doctrine had merit. Obviously us progressive have always been pissed about it, but maybe we just weren't as good at exploiting it as the conservatives.

Wait a minute.... 1971??? your not talking more like 2001 with Colin Powell's son being appointed to the FCCC are you?

[PETRUS]

10. An honest discussion about the fairness doctrine could be interesting.

But yeah - 1971. Lewis Powell Jr (prior to his supreme court nomination by Nixon) wrote a then-confidential memo to the US Chamber of Commerce. It's full of patriotic-sounding BS, and it outlines a strategy for reorienting public opinion. And whaddaya know, that's exactly what happened.

[Joe Shlabotnik]

11. WOW, never heard of that, thanks for informing me n/t

[Luminous Animal]

12. Link to the memo...

http://reclaimdemocracy.org/corporate_accountability/powell_memo_lewis.html

[Joe Shlabotnik]

13. thanks! I will read it tommorow. (Off to bed shortly). n/t