The four day work week under consideration in New Zealand. Why not here?

[Alex4Martinez]

This should be considered for the US workforce to provide employment for more of us while giving everyone an extra day each week to spend with family or on community building, or just relaxing or pursuing what brings us joy.

Link to tweet

[sfstaxprep]

1. republican SCUM

That's the reason it would never happen here.

Even comparing the U.S. to New Zealand is hilarious.

[Igel]

2. I missed where she said for there to be a 20% cut in hours.

Also where she said employers would be happy to have workers 20% less time but at the same pay.

Most of the talk (from others) has 4 days x 10 hr instead of 5 days x 8 hours. Not a decrease in hours. Nor pay.

[meadowlander]

14. She's talking about a 30 hour work week at the same level of pay

to help prop up the tourism industry (which is something like 10% of the GDP in New Zealand). The idea is to give everyone more time to travel around domestically until the international tourism market recovers. The alternative she floated was more public holidays but that just creates a crush at the same time.

I wouldn't be surprised if she got something through like an additional three day weekend per month (taken on the weekend of choice for the employee) on a limited term basis - like for the next two years. The hospitality industry lobby in New Zealand is absolutely massive.

[JI7]

3. We can't even get help for people during a fucking pandemic

[Skittles]

4. I sometimes do four nights

alas, they're about 13 hour shifts

[Thomas Hurt]

5. My dentist and his staff work 4 ten hour days

[sarcasmo]

6. Here we have the 7 day a week, two job, work week.

[tulipsandroses]

9. Sad but true

And throw in Uber and Lyft on the side along with those two jobs.

[GulfCoast66]

7. Because I've normally got, well, work to do

While we all believe in much more tightly regulated capitalism than we now see, someone has to generate the wealth that keeps society running.

I’m furloughed now because the virus. Looking forward to getting back and being productive.

Some of us actually like our jobs and want to be there.

Besides, there is one huge benefit of work no one ever mentions. When you are working you generally aren’t spending money.

That said, I have a great set up. If I ever get to return to work I have 7 weeks a year paid time off I can actually take. That what we need to strive for.

The folks in Europe work hard. But get an acceptable amount of paid time off.

[DFW]

11. Standard here is six weeks paid vacation

Each country has its little quirks. In Switzerland, my guy there gets a 13th month's salary every year as a traditional bonus. Of course, he puts in six day weeks. He came to us in 1984 at age 37, and is still with us fill time at age 73. He knows he can retire any time, but says, "what for?" I have been doing that routine (pre-virus) for decades now. My outfit could not get everything done, either if we only worked 4 day weeks. We could never pay for the benefits we give everyone if we had a 4-day work week. Maybe a factory with a few hundred workers doing jobs that anyone could do could somehow structure this, though I don't know how that would work. In my case, half of us are specialists in our fields, and can't just be replaced by putting an ad in the paper. I've been looking for someone with the necessary qualifactions to take my place for 15 years (I'm 68 now), and still have no takers.

About 30 years ago, one of the unions was pushing for this here in Germany. Four day (actually, 30 hour) work weeks with no reduction in salary from the 5 day work week. When most of the big employers in Germany pointed out that they would have trouble staying solvent under those conditions, it fizzled. If the option is getting the (pretty good) conditions most German employees have or watching your employer move to another country because he can't cover his costs (high due to benefits they pay), the choice gets easy.

Ideals are good to have, but reality always takes it rightful place at the head of the line. Just ask Bernie Sanders.

[GulfCoast66]

24. I only get so much for 2 reasons.

I’m a salaried employee with over 20 years of service. 5 weeks actually vacation.

Because where I work we work many holidays we are given those 11 days to take where we want. Unless you are not allowed to work on a holiday due to your job. Then you get normal holiday pay.

I don’t have a problem with seniority earning extra time. But everyone should get at least 3-4 weeks.

[DFW]

25. I agree with that completely

Two weeks off per year is just not enough R&R unless your job is testing mattresses.

[USALiberal]

18. You work 7 days a week? Nt

[Alex4Martinez]

8. Funny, maybe we're brainwashed into thinking long hours are so very important.

Or, maybe the corporatocracy has turned us into mindless worker/consumers.

Yeah, sure, many passionate workers love the long hours, even if it means no time with family and children.
I'm surrounded by that sadness but it's not in my life.

Funny, it seems other countries, healthier countries, don't share this Capitalistic everyone should work while only a few actually amass wealth work ethic.



https://www.indy100.com/article/map-europe-long-hours-per-week-7994441

[DFW]

12. "Including part-time workers"

That should be in big letters at the top. It does affect the average--a LOT.

Here in Germany, part-time workers make up a huge part of the economy (working mothers, semi-retirees, etc.). No one with a full-time job works 26 hours. That is a pure fantasy having nothing to do with the reality on the ground here. Showing up here in Germany and applying for a full-time job that has a 26 hour work week will land you in line applying for unemployment benefits pretty quickly. The people at my office in Holland would laugh at the "27 hour" work week. They get to set their own agenda--complete autonomy with no input from me. They get to the office between 8 and 9, and usually are still there at 5:30 in the evening. Some of them travel on weekends for work, too.

[tulipsandroses]

10. That would be awesome. The one thing I miss about working in the hospital is my 3 day work week

Those 3 days were loooong. 12-16 hr days. But I so appreciated having 4 days off. Now that I work in an outpatient clinic and work 5 days a week, - supposedly 8 hrs per day. I can tell you its rare that I work 8 hrs. I'd rather do long hours for 3-4 days than work 5 days a week. I was planning on staying for benefits here and loan forgiveness but when my contract ends, I want a job that I don't work 5 days.

[smirkymonkey]

13. Very sane idea whose time has come.

I'm sorry, but I can easily get my work done in 4 days and I think so can most white collar workers. We should have the option. Some of us are just more efficient than others. I don't spend a lot of time screwing around during the week so I get my work done and find myself doing mindless admin work on Fridays, or just taking a half day off.

I am tired of this whole idea of time. You should be evaluated upon the job you do, not on how many hours you clock in. I work with a lot of people who spend half their day goofing off and chit-chatting, yet they stay late and are looked at as "hard workers". However, they have completely pissed their day away doing nothing and have to catch up in the evening or early in the morning, unlike those of us who can get our work done in a concentrated time span.

I'm all for it. If you perform, the time you spend in the office should not make a difference. It is your manager's responsibility to make sure you are measuring up, regardless of how much "face time" you put in.

[Alex4Martinez]

15. The carpenters union had "Black Fridays" to keep everyone employed.

When work was low, taking every other Friday off meant keeping everyone working.

This point seems to be lost on many but is one of the benefits of a four day work week and the current recession is the reason I posted the idea.

Some of the replies are depressing, for different reasons, but I'm encouraged by your comments.

[smirkymonkey]

16. I think it would be a good idea for a number of reasons, many of which would benefit

society as a whole - less cars on the road, more family time, less electricity used to run workplaces, a greater sense of work-life balance for employees, even increased productivity. However, the authoritarians among us are opposed to anything that looks like less work and more freedom, no matter how much sense it makes.

Hopefully, this lockdown can make employers see the benefit of at least a flex-schedule, where people can wfh more often. As it is, I was wfh one day per week before the lockdown, which was nice, but it would be even better if it could be two or if they could just make it a four day workweek. And no, I am not willing to take a cut in pay unless they expect me to scale back my responsibilities. Mature adults should be able to manage their time. If you can't get your work done in four days, then work the extra day or the weekend. But it shouldn't be required.

Thanks for an interesting, thoughtful post!

[Alex4Martinez]

19. Thanks! Of course, no cut in pay is required for this to work, we just need to tax wealth.

I'm saddened by claims from our side of the aisle that we can't afford this or that.

We can afford a lot of what more advanced nations provide if only we would tax wealth and pull back from the military spending.

Take care!

[Wounded Bear]

17. I did that for years...

worked 4 10s. Was great. 4 8s would be even better, assuming they adjust wages so the weekly salary remains livable.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

20. Because this country's relationship to work is broken.

[Johnny2X2X]

21. We were meant to work 4 days IMO

Believe it or not, Work Life balance is a trendy corporate term, some leading companies are really starting to get it in that they are seeing that less hours makes people more productive and helps the company in the long run. My company still has us doing 5 days, but they give us so much vacation time that it's possible to have 12 weeks off in a year paid. We have the week off between Xmas and New Years, we get the day after Thanksgiving off, we get Good Friday off, and we get permissive vacation time, so you take what you need.

Well rested employees make better, more efficient, and more productive workers. It's hard for some to believe, but a growing number of US employers are starting to get that.

I am taking tomorrow off, So I have a 4 day work week this week and next, I can't tell you the difference that makes. I'll take several long weekends in the Summer. the 3 day weekend is a completely different animal that the 2 day one, it allows for rest and recharging as well as getting house work done and entertainment.

And some companies aren't even doing 4 tens, they're letting salaried workers work 35 hours for full time pay, studies are proving that they get more from people in 35 hours in 4 days than they do in 40 hours from 5 days. It's a tough sell for some, but this is actually starting to get traction.

[Alex4Martinez]

22. Exactly, thank you!

It's a paradigm that is supported by science. Balance in all things, 40, 50, longer hours work weeks are unnatural and not productive.

The indirect negative impacts on family and community are measurable.

[Johnny2X2X]

23. It's been know for decades

Anything over 40 hours hurts the worker and the employer. It's bad for business. That is a known fact.

Less clear, but also suggested is that 40 hours is too much still. There's enough evidence out there that 35 hours should be the standard work week. It's just hard to change people from their norms. And the fact that there is the odd person here or there that is super productive for 50 or 60 hours a week.

There is clear scientific evidence, so much so that that there is no doubt that a maximum of 8 hours a day should be adhered to, and a straight 8 is best, working 8-1/2 hours with an unpaid half hour lunch is harmful, it's better a straight 8 with a half hour paid lunch. These are known facts, we've known them for a long time. And yet managers all over continue to hurt their company by forcing people to work too long for the company's good.

https://www.askspoke.com/blog/hr/40-hour-work-week/

[ProfessorGAC]

26. Forget For A Moment, The New UE Numbers

Go back 4 months, and see the total unemployment numbers, including long term unemployed.
We were at the 4th best numbers since 1930.
There aren't enough unemployed people to backfill the 5th day.
There are now, of course, but I don't see it viable.
Companies either can't or won't increase their labor costs by 25%. The option being all those 5 day workers go to 4 days take a 20% cut. Good luck with getting cooperation in today's "want it now" culture.
Companies won't eat the 25%, workers wouldn't take the 20% cut, likely won't agree on 12.5% & 10% mid point, and we'd run out of job seekers.
The nonessential businesses are going to open eventually. A fairly high (certainly not all) percent of those jobs will be refilled.
UE will be higher than before, but there still won't be enough capable employees.
It's why UBI is such a worthy goal.
It boosts from the bottom without crowding the job opportunities.