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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsBill Maher defends calling coronavirus 'Chinese virus,' blames China
HBO's Bill Maher on Friday defended calling the novel coronavirus the "Chinese virus," arguing that "pretty liberal" scientists have been "naming diseases after the places they came from for a very long time."
The remarks from the "Real Time" host come after President Trump had repeatedly referred to COVID-19 as the "Chinese virus," but stopped doing so late last month.
Scientists, who are generally pretty liberal, have been naming diseases after the places they came from for a very long time, Maher said Friday night while broadcasting his weekly show from his home in California.
Zika is from the Zika Forest. Ebola from the Ebola River. Hantavirus, the Hantan River. Theres the West Nile Virus and Guinea worm and Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever, and of course the Spanish flu.
MERS stands for Middle Eastern Respiratory Syndrome, the host continued. Its plastered all over airports and no one blogs about it. So, why should China get a pass?
Maher proceeded to respond to a tweet by Rep. Ted Lieu (D-Calif.), who criticized Rep. Paul Gosar (R-Ariz.) for calling coronavirus "the Wuhan virus" on March 8.
No, that would be way stupider because it didnt come from Milan, said Maher. And if it did, I guarantee wed be calling it the Milan Virus. Jesus f---ing Christ. Cant we even have a pandemic without getting offended? When they named Lyme disease after a town in Connecticut the locals didnt get all ticked off?
This is about facts. Its about life and death. Were barely four months into this pandemic and the wet markets in China the ones where exotic animals are sold and consumed are already starting to reopen," he later added.
"Sorry Americans, we're going to have to ask you to keep two ideas in your head at the same time: This has nothing to do with Asian Americans and it has everything to do with China," Maher concluded. "We can't afford the luxury anymore of non-judginess towards a country with habits that kill millions of people everywhere. Because this isn't the first time. SARS came from China. And the bird flu. And the Hong Kong flu. The Asian flu. Viruses come from China just like shortstops come from the Dominican Republic. If they were selling nuclear suitcases at these wet markets, would we be so non-judgmental?"
https://thehill.com/homenews/media/492340-bill-maher-defends-calling-coronavirus-chinese-virus-mocks-ted-lieu
underpants
(182,872 posts)But it should be the Wuhan flu or the Wuhan Terrible Flu (WTF).
The naming convention is precedent
Blues Heron
(5,939 posts)they deliberatlely didn't go with a place name because of stigma. I don't see what's so hard about using the name it already has rather than jump through hoops to justify racist impulses, othering, blame etc.
HarlanPepper
(2,042 posts)Lyme disease and Ebola got their names for places and things. In the first case it was a town. In the second it was a river.
I dont have a dog in the fight. Not passionate about Maher either way but the point you just made doesnt refute his at all.
Laffy Kat
(16,386 posts)I imagine they can walk down the street without fear. You know, there's that.
HarlanPepper
(2,042 posts)But unfortunately it doesnt change his point about the tradition of the naming of these diseases.
Bradshaw3
(7,528 posts)And said that obviously people shouldn't be holding it against Asian-Americans. So there's that.
BComplex
(8,063 posts)It has to do with rightwing racists trying to stir up fear & hatred among not too bright, very mentally & emotionally imbalanced people.
Blues Heron
(5,939 posts)get with the program or risk getting called a racist.
lame54
(35,317 posts)Rollo
(2,559 posts)... because unlike other European nations engaged in WWI, neutral Spain hadn't censored the news.
HarlanPepper
(2,042 posts)There are just as many people who believe it started in a WW1 field hospital which was obviously not in Kansas.
former9thward
(32,068 posts)According to the National Geographic it came from China. I will go with them...
https://www.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/1/140123-spanish-flu-1918-china-origins-pandemic-science-health/?fbclid=IwAR0Geu1G7iMg4DR5GiqKg6-wFJRDZUhjKhlEjhD_6_Zggyb4P83YTexIdY4
1918 Flu Pandemic That Killed 50 Million Originated in China, Historians Say
Chinese laborers transported across Canada thought to be source
THE GLOBAL FLU outbreak of 1918 killed 50 million people worldwide, ranking as one of the deadliest epidemics in history.
For decades, scientists have debated where in the world the pandemic started, variously pinpointing its origins in France, China, the American Midwest, and beyond. Without a clear location, scientists have lacked a complete picture of the conditions that bred the disease and factors that might lead to similar outbreaks in the future.
The deadly "Spanish flu" claimed more lives than World War I, which ended the same year the pandemic struck. Now, new research is placing the flu's emergence in a forgotten episode of World War I: the shipment of Chinese laborers across Canada in sealed train cars.
lame54
(35,317 posts)And shouldn't be used as an example
LiberalFighter
(51,054 posts)The coronavirus was named COVID-19 or coronavirus.
HarlanPepper
(2,042 posts)Doesnt really matter much. This is a conversation for people who have too much time on their hands or are invested emotionally one way or another as far as the name. Almost everyone refers to it colloquially as the virus anyway.
Lancero
(3,011 posts)But COVID-19 is the name of the disease, not the virus itself. SARS-CoV-2 is the name of the virus, but that's quite a mouthful so most people refer to it as the Coronavirus since it's the easiest to remember or Covid-19 since it's easier to remember.
LakeArenal
(28,837 posts)Geez Bill, chill. Dont be so offended!!!
Its Trumpsvirus, anyway.
Youre such a efhead.
malaise
(269,157 posts)Fuck him
dalton99a
(81,570 posts)Never forget
malaise
(269,157 posts)I don't plan to forget either
dalton99a
(81,570 posts)MoonchildCA
(1,301 posts)Bradshaw3
(7,528 posts)Sheesh. Some can't stand the truth.
dalton99a
(81,570 posts)"I'm going to say to you what I say to every conservative who comes on this show: Thank you," Maher told Bannon on "Real Time with Bill Maher."
"I appreciate it and it says volumes why Republicans are in power and we have none, Maher continued. Hillary Clinton never came here. Maybe shed be president if she was a little more confident."
"Big time," Bannon responded, largely to silence from Maher's audience.
Girard442
(6,083 posts)NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)I gave up on him when he was agreeing with that "Milo" troll (the Ann Coulter wannabe with some Greek surname) when Milo was arguing that transgender individuals should not use public restrooms that match their gender identity. Maher said something in agreement with Milo along the lines of "well, you make a good point there" or "you've got a good argument" or something like that.
malaise
(269,157 posts)Not my cup of tea although when I watched back in the day, he did have some good guests
Loki Liesmith
(4,602 posts)More than any other government on earth. Thats true.
Blues Heron
(5,939 posts)we have 1/4 the population and about 5 times the deaths. But they fucked up. right.
ansible
(1,718 posts)They're bragging about having less than 100k cases.
https://i.insider.com/5e713cb7c48540280e694787?width=1100&format=jpeg&auto=webp
Blues Heron
(5,939 posts)You really think they're hiding hundreds of thousands of sick people? Don't let your prejudice cloud your better judgement. Let's hear all the details of your "hidden sick people" conspiracy: where are they? You must have solid info or links right?
forthemiddle
(1,382 posts)Does that disprove New Yorks numbers?
Do you realize that the overwhelming majority of hospitals in the United States are furloughing employees because there are no patients in the beds?
China has not been honest about the numbers, and has no reflection what so ever about how busy the hospitals are.
Blues Heron
(5,939 posts)forthemiddle
(1,382 posts)Are you questioning the empty US hospitals, or something else?
I work for a major healthcare consulting firm. We contract for hospitals all over the United States providing healthcare administration and billing functions. We are furloughing almost 90 % of our staff, and the hospitals we work for are doing the same. Without elective, and routine care there is no patients. With people lockdown in their homes, the trauma patients are almost nonexistent.
The hospital beds arent being filled up. Outside the hot spots there is no capacity problems.
I am not saying they wont fill up in the future, but they are empty now.
So once again, what is the Cool story Bro referring too?
dalton99a
(81,570 posts)The wet markets in China no longer have exotic animals - China's Congress banned that trade in February ("hunting, trading and transportation of wild terrestrial animals for the purpose of consumption" ). They also banned the slaughter and sale of live animals in wet markets. (Incidentally, wet markets are where many if not most people get their fresh meat and produce in urban areas.)
The Chinese regime is not stupid. They cannot afford a recurrence of this fiasco.
EllieBC
(3,040 posts)Nope, there were still reports of civets at the wet markets.
I think Trump fucked up royally but that doesn't mean embrace China and suddenly trust them.
dalton99a
(81,570 posts)EllieBC
(3,040 posts)This whole idea they are not fudging their facts and numbers is laughable.
Politicub
(12,165 posts)He sees the writing on the wall with Biden winning the presidency, so now he's tilting to the conservative/libertarian side to be contrarian.
And his straw man of selling nuclear suitcases at a wet market being akin to a pandemic is neither funny nor clever.
I stopped watching his show long ago. At times it was good, when he was more on the liberal side.
Thomas Hurt
(13,903 posts)He is using it as racist newspeak to shift blame.
Response to ansible (Original post)
kcr This message was self-deleted by its author.
sarge43
(28,943 posts)Most experts now are mostly in agreement that it started here in the states.
The "Spanish" Flu didn't start in Spain. In fact, Spain was one of the few European countries that wasn't overwhelmed by it.
dalton99a
(81,570 posts)sarge43
(28,943 posts)that he was seeing an outbreak of abnormal flu, more widespread, more lethal. He was ignored.
"History may not be repeat, but it does rhyme."
Celerity
(43,491 posts)Kansas is only one of many hypotheses, and is certainly not the consensus of the scientific community.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_flu#Hypotheses_about_the_source
Hypotheses about the source
United Kingdom
The major UK troop staging and hospital camp in Étaples in France has been theorized by researchers as being at the center of the Spanish flu. The research was published in 1999 by a British team, led by virologist John Oxford. In late 1917, military pathologists reported the onset of a new disease with high mortality that they later recognized as the flu. The overcrowded camp and hospital was an ideal site for the spreading of a respiratory virus. The hospital treated thousands of victims of chemical attacks, and other casualties of war, and 100,000 soldiers passed through the camp every day. It also was home to a piggery, and poultry was regularly brought in for food supplies from surrounding villages. Oxford and his team postulated that a significant precursor virus, harbored in birds, mutated and then migrated to pigs kept near the front.
A report published in 2016 in the Journal of the Chinese Medical Association found evidence that the 1918 virus had been circulating in the European armies for months and possibly years before the 1918 pandemic.
United States
There have been statements that the epidemic originated in the United States. Historian Alfred W. Crosby stated in 2003 that the flu originated in Kansas, and popular author John M. Barry described a January 1918 outbreak in Haskell County, Kansas, as the point of origin in his 2004 article.
A 2018 study of tissue slides and medical reports led by evolutionary biology professor Michael Worobey found evidence against the disease originating from Kansas as those cases were milder and had fewer deaths compared to the situation in New York City in the same time period. The study did find evidence through phylogenetic analyses that the virus likely had a North American origin, though it was not conclusive. In addition, the haemagglutinin glycoproteins of the virus suggest that it was around far prior to 1918 and other studies suggest that the reassortment of the H1N1 virus likely occurred in or around 1915.
China
One of the few regions of the world seemingly less affected by the 1918 flu pandemic was China, where there may have been a comparatively mild flu season in 1918 (although this is disputed due to lack of data during the Warlord Period of China, see Around the globe). Multiple studies have documented that there were relatively few deaths from the flu in China compared to other regions of the world. This has led to speculation that the 1918 flu pandemic originated in China. The relatively mild flu season and lower rates of flu mortality in China in 1918 may be explained due to the fact that the Chinese population had already possessed acquired immunity to the flu virus.
In 1993, Claude Hannoun, the leading expert on the 1918 flu for the Pasteur Institute, asserted the former virus was likely to have come from China. It then mutated in the United States near Boston and from there spread to Brest, France, Europe's battlefields, Europe, and the world with Allied soldiers and sailors as the main disseminators.
In 2014, historian Mark Humphries argued that the mobilization of 96,000 Chinese laborers to work behind the British and French lines might have been the source of the pandemic. Humphries, of the Memorial University of Newfoundland in St. John's, based his conclusions on newly unearthed records. He found archival evidence that a respiratory illness that struck northern China in November 1917 was identified a year later by Chinese health officials as identical to the Spanish flu.
A report published in 2016 in the Journal of the Chinese Medical Association found no evidence that the 1918 virus was imported to Europe via Chinese and Southeast Asian soldiers and workers and instead found evidence of its circulation in Europe before the pandemic. The 2016 study suggested that the low flu mortality rate (an estimated 1/1000) found among the Chinese and Southeast Asian workers in Europe meant that the deadly 1918 influenza pandemic could not have originated from those workers.
A 2018 study of tissue slides and medical reports led by evolutionary biology professor Michael Worobey found evidence against the disease being spread by Chinese workers, noting that workers entered Europe through other routes that did not result in detectable spread, making them unlikely to have been the original hosts.[26]
Other
Hannoun considered several alternative hypotheses of origin, such as Spain, Kansas, and Brest, as being possible, but not likely.[34] Political scientist Andrew Price-Smith published data from the Austrian archives suggesting the influenza began in Austria in early 1917.
snip
1918 Pandemic (H1N1 virus) (from the CDC)
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/1918-pandemic-h1n1.html
The 1918 influenza pandemic was the most severe pandemic in recent history. It was caused by an H1N1 virus with genes of avian origin. Although there is not universal consensus regarding where the virus originated, it spread worldwide during 1918-1919. In the United States, it was first identified in military personnel in spring 1918. It is estimated that about 500 million people or one-third of the worlds population became infected with this virus. The number of deaths was estimated to be at least 50 million worldwide with about 675,000 occurring in the United States.
The Deadliest Flu: The Complete Story of the Discovery and Reconstruction of the 1918 Pandemic Virus
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/pandemic-resources/reconstruction-1918-virus.html
Study revives bird origin for 1918 flu pandemic
https://www.nature.com/news/study-revives-bird-origin-for-1918-flu-pandemic-1.14723
The 1918 Spanish Flu Pandemic, the Origins of the H1N1-virus Strain, a Glance in History
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/314079733_The_1918_Spanish_Flu_Pandemic_the_Origins_of_the_H1N1-virus_Strain_a_Glance_in_History
The Origin and Virulence of the 1918 Spanish Influenza Virus
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2720273/
still_one
(92,372 posts)when he pushed goat milk cures HIV:
https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/virginiahughes/goat-milk-cure
He also borders as an anti-vaxer. I wonder if the asshole will get the vaccine when it comes out?
That Maher is playing STUPID that he doesn't realize what the racist asshole is doing by calling it the "China virus", has nothing to do with the geographical area where the virus first appeared, but instead wants to say that China intentionally caused this virus, and tap into the conspiracy theorists that this was some germ warfare plot
No one is denying that the Coronavirus originated in China, but to push xenophobic bullshit is typical Maher. His anti-Muslim rants is another one of his trademarks
Maher is just a f**king entertainer, who quite a few times doesn't get his facts straight
ismnotwasm
(41,999 posts)If the intent is to be racist, and it is, than fuck that. I cant stand that guy
Also, MRSA should be called The American killer bacteria by that logic
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)to his racist/bigoted supporters. That ain't right.
And now thousands (maybe millions) of Americans are jumping on the blame China bandwagon as an excuse to deflect blame away from Trump and the GOP for mishandling mitigation from the get go. That's precisely why he's calling it the China virus. I'm OK with "Wuhan Virus" but I have gotten used to calling it CV-19 or Coronavirus.
dalton99a
(81,570 posts)A country?
Condemn specific practices in an industry, not an entire country or culture. The vast majority of Chinese citizens had nothing to do with the wildlife in the videos.
BeckyDem
(8,361 posts)Ferrets are Cool
(21,109 posts)And you, sir, are a FUCKING IDIOT to even suggest that it's not a risk to Asian-Americans to call it the "Chinese virus". So, with all due respect, FUCK YOU!
cabot
(724 posts)You have German measles, Marburg Virus, Lyme Disease, Ebola, etc...but we all know why dipshit insists on calling it the China virus.
If they re-open the wet markets, as it seems they are, then China should have to pay a penalty. I don't know..like, let's allow Taiwan to join the UN and every country can cancel its outstanding debt to China in order to recoup costs of treating the pandemic.
I blame Xi, not the Chinese people. They're just as much victims as everyone else. Xi's got to go.
lunasun
(21,646 posts)Buckeye_Democrat
(14,856 posts)If it was originally called the Chinese virus by health authorities, then fine, but it wasnt!
An idiot in the White House doesnt get to rename it. He played no role in identifying it as a novel virus!
Renaming it was obviously an attempt by Trump to perpetuate xenophobia during this mess!
You know, like anti-Muslim xenophobia, Mr. Maher.
Hav
(5,969 posts)I suppose variations of Mers-Cov, Corona, Covid-19 are used pretty much worldwide. You know what is meant by it if you didn't just wake up from a coma. Those who point to previous pandemics/diseases named after their suspected origin neglect the fact that there was no need to come up with a new name. We already had a name and everyone understood it.
sop
(10,239 posts)the WH podium on a daily basis. Trump also saw this as a convenient way to deflect responsibility for his own bungling of the US response, and as further justification for his disastrous ongoing China trade war.
Republican Senator Tom Cotton (and others in the GOP) then suggested the Chinese government was behind the outbreak of the virus, implying it was a military plot to destroy the American economy. Predictably, many of Trump's followers in the right-wing media picked up and ran with this conspiracy theory, resulting in Chinese-Americans being harassed and attacked.
Note to Bill Maher: Many on the left have taken exception to Trump's shameless politicization of the virus, and the anti-Chinese hysteria created by right-wing conspiracy theorists, not the naming of the virus.
TreasonousBastard
(43,049 posts)let him get one step out of line...
He is a libertarian comedian-- not a liberal, socialist, activist, or anything else people around here like to call themselves.
And we're back to defining any speech that doesn't conform to strict standards as racist sexist, or some other "-ist".
ismnotwasm
(41,999 posts)To tell you the truth, generally the only time I see anything about him is here. And Im never surprised
HarlanPepper
(2,042 posts)walkingman
(7,655 posts)used the term as a derogatory statement, knowingly, and with malice. The right-wingers jumped on this with glee.
sop
(10,239 posts)in every situation. I view Maher as a contrarian, not a libertarian. He prefers absolutism, not nuance, and can be inconsistent in his choice of targets. I reserve the right to criticize Bill Maher whenever I choose.
Bill's taken a lot of heat for his disparaging comments about the muslim faith over the years. He's opened himself up to a lot of hate from progressives, possibly the sort of reflexive criticism we see here. In the end, he's just a comedian.
HarlanPepper
(2,042 posts)But I wasnt a big fan of this particular point even though he is correct about it. Lyme, Conn., Ebola river in Zaire, etc.
Eyeball_Kid
(7,434 posts)infected the US CAME FROM EUROPE. It was determined through research on contact tracing.
hardluck
(640 posts)Many of the strains found in New York were traced to Europe, while some were traced to the West Coast and Asia. Doesnt change the fact that the outbreak of SARS-CoV-2 started in China.
As to Maher, he an attention seeking ass, and hes getting what he wants here. Same as always.
Paladin
(28,271 posts)He didn't say one fucking word about how using "Chinese virus" would set off trump scum violence against U.S. citizens with Asian backgrounds, did he? (Somebody confirm that---I stopped watching Maher a long time ago.) What the hell is wrong with the "COVID-19" designation?
WhiskeyGrinder
(22,407 posts)Gothmog
(145,496 posts)He is wrong yet again
empedocles
(15,751 posts)Carville is funny also, but is grounded in political philosophy, real experience, and depth - agree with Carville or not.
Maher is too much like trump. Lot of access, assumes he is smart, shallow, smirky.
Steelrolled
(2,022 posts)What will be next?
Silent3
(15,259 posts)...but you could tell Trump was specifically and transparently calling COVID-19 the "China virus" (in that strange, over-enunciated way Trump says "[CH/G]I-NAH" ) in an effort to deflect blame from himself. And that's disgusting.
Mike Nelson
(9,966 posts)... it really doesn't matter, now. The virus has two names... Corona and Covid. We certainly don't need a third.
Wounded Bear
(58,699 posts)Part of his schtick is poking people where they feel uncomfortable. I don't get much chance to watch him anymore since he's on cable, but he was never really a "liberal." He's mostly a libertarian that leans left on some things.
mainer
(12,029 posts)When they called it Zika and Ebola, people werent getting beaten up because of it. This has consequences for AMERICANS who just happen to have Asian features.
HarlanPepper
(2,042 posts)2014-15 wasnt a great time for them.
mainer
(12,029 posts)And we are not talking about people from China. We are talking about families who've been Americans for generations.
It would be like suddenly beating up multi-generational African-Americans for the Ebola virus.
HarlanPepper
(2,042 posts)Ilsa
(61,697 posts)Diseases could easily come from other wild and remote locations. Tearing down rainforests deep in the Amazon could unleash viruses and bacteria we've never seen. Drilling into ancient permafrost could do the same. This isn't about about "China". It's about humanity spreading out and using up resources by encroaching into places that defend themselves, so to speak.
Dem4Life1102
(3,974 posts)Why is anyone surprised? He has been one for decades. Its not new news. What is disgusting is the Maher sycophants who will defend him just because he doesnt like Trump.
dalton99a
(81,570 posts)TV Host's Words Draw Criticism and Apology
Jan. 18, 2001
During the show's Jan. 11 telecast, Mr. Maher compared his dogs to ''retarded children,'' adding, ''They're sweet. They're loving. They're kind. But they don't mentally advance at all.'' He made the comments in a discussion about parenting.
samsingh
(17,600 posts)tonedevil
(3,022 posts)so hearing that he wants to justify his own racist tendencies isn't surprising. I'm said to see so many do it here though.
dalton99a
(81,570 posts)Galraedia
(5,027 posts)The wet markets in China are a petri dish for the creation of deadly viruses. China's government knows this, which is why they closed them. Unfortunately, they've reopened them again. Which is insulting to every nation and culture currently dealing it. China's response has not been to address the underlying issue, which is their utter lack of food, health, and safety regulations. Instead they have chosen to isolate it long enough for it to go away only to rinse and repeat the same cycle over again.
HarlanPepper
(2,042 posts)I guess were supposed to ignore that.
totodeinhere
(13,058 posts)happening in Wuhan. If they had been more forthcoming about it early on then perhaps the world would have been in a better position to prepare for what has happened since then. So I think I understand where Bill is coming form. It's not about anti-Chinese racism. It's about unconscionable conduct on the part of the Chinese government.
SMC22307
(8,090 posts)or any media blowhard. Too much "opinion" and not enough "fact" is killing this country.
The Magistrate
(95,255 posts)Even when he is right, he's wrong, because nothing but a reflexive opposition to what he imagines to be a consensus of well-meaning people animates him, and he just wants to be the bad boy people can't help but notice.
Notoriety is not fame, but people of his sort cannot tell the difference.
dalton99a
(81,570 posts)(assuming Trump will depart from the scene)
Azathoth
(4,611 posts)nt
Lancero
(3,011 posts)Might have originated in China sure, but it originated specifically because someone had to satisfy their blood fetish.
mainer
(12,029 posts)Farmers in China collect bat guano for fertilizer. The first case of Covid had no connection with wet markets, so maybe it came from a farmer.