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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsNo, You Did Not Get COVID-19 in the Fall of 2019
Herd immunity is a right wing lie.
https://slate.com/technology/2020/04/coronavirus-circulating-california-2019-bunk.html
If genomics arent your thing, consider this: If the virus had arrived earlier, we would have known. Humans have no natural immunity to this new virus, which is why its spreading quickly, infecting millions and killing tens of thousands. Thats evident in whats going on in New York right now, says Black. If it had arrived in fall of 2019, and we were all living our lives as normal, we wouldve had New York back in fall of 2019, she says. Theres no reason why this virus would have spread undetected for months before wreaking the havoc it has.
So whats really behind this theory? It might be worth considering the source. KSBWs piece begins by mentioning Stanford Medicines research, then quotes Victor Davis Hanson, a Stanford-affiliated source; the piece reads as if Hanson is one of these aforementioned Stanford Medicine researchers. But Hanson is a military historian, not a doctor or scientist; he is affiliated with Stanfords Hoover Institution, a conservative think tank.* (I reached out to Hanson for comment, but he has not responded; we will update this article if he does.) The piece makes no effort to clarify what the Hoover Institution is, and it delves into Hansons theory as a prelude to a brief explanation of Stanford Medicines study. Hansons recent work, published in National Review, suggests he is eager to reopen the American economy. It would be quite convenient, then, to claim that the virus has already torn through the U.S. and granted us immunity. (In that article, Hanson also claims that much of the virus modeling is nearly worthless and refers to it as science, in scare quotes.)
Hanson also (incorrectly) suggests that the viruss spread in California came from Chinese nationals visiting California. Looking more closely at his recent work reveals a potential political motive for that claim; in a recent op-ed for Fox News, he argues that we already have too many Chinese nationals visiting, studying, or collaborating in the U.S., and that post-coronavirus America should wake up and make changes.
This CA herd immunity stuff is not true, this doctor tells us why...
https://abc7news.com/health/coronavirus-herd-immunity-in-california-doctor-shares-his-thoughts/6093881/
bigoted conservative "theorizes" bullshit unscientific nonsense? the hell, you say!
Ms. Toad
(34,086 posts)That particular fight wore me out.
mercuryblues
(14,537 posts)It was bad, real bad. Do you know why I don't believe it was Covid-19? Because no one in my tribe caught it. Not my brother who I spent 14 hours with in a car. Not my husband. None of my kids who visited. No friends I socialized with.
Anon-C
(3,430 posts)... infections with this virus were occuring in California as early as December. I will believe the data and leave it to the scientists. But use common sense in the interim to draw a reasonable conclusions Wuhan was burning with this in December...thousands left infected before China shut it down and thousands more travelled here before any ban was put in place. Community spread was active and underway in Washington state in January!
The data will show and we should respect it even while resisting the right's need to scapegoat and deflect.
GulfCoast66
(11,949 posts)He is the reason I root against Stanford in all sports. He is the person who gives all the right wing bullshit any cred by being a Stanford professor. Hate radio quotes him all the time. A history professor who is a fascist, racist hack. His entire motivation in furthering the most right wing of causes.
I know more about epidemiology than he does.
Stanford is not a state school. Great in many departments. Full of nut in others. And a right wing tilt all the way.
JCMach1
(27,572 posts)herd immunity, yeah questionable.
Personally, I am waiting for the anti-body test for the whole family.
I had a mystery illness end of Nov./Dec. 2019 (non Influenza, non Strep) not normal whatever the hell it was. It resulted in pneumonia with tightness and shortness of breath that went on for almost a month. It kicked into pericarditis that damaged one of my heart valves. I am only since about the beginning of the quarantine getting back to normal.
Son and Wife had non-influenza, non-strep that made them both sick. Both myself and my son the the seem to be improving thing, only to have it postponed within 48hrs. He had even gone back to school spiked a high fever and also had pneumonia in one lobe. That was around Valentine's day. My wife is a home health nurse who works with elderly and hospice patients.
And yeah, I fully realize the chances are much lower I did not have it... It may have been some RSV on steroids that mutated to attack older people. I get that.
However, we would like the anti-body test please... ASAP
My wife is terrified she will bring it home to us if we ARE NOT immune.
smirkymonkey
(63,221 posts)I also had something similar. Not the flu or anything similar. It was a dry cough that was so harsh I was choking on it because I could not actually cough anything up. I took Mucinex and other cold preps but nothing helped. It lasted through almost the entire month of December. I never took my temp, so I am not sure if I had a fever, but I was very run down. I just assumed it was a cold. I had a flu shot in early October, so I wasn't very alarmed.
I tried to go into to work a few days and they sent me home because my cough was so bad. It lasted almost a month and I still don't feel like I am completely over it. It kind of kicks in every now and then, especially after I have had something to eat.
Hope you and your family stay well and healthy!
The_REAL_Ecumenist
(728 posts)I got it in the last week of December. It was SO bad that IO had to move an appointment for after the beginning of the year. I have Sarcoidosis, which manifests, often, is in my lungs, with the dry cough & have cutaneous granulomas. After I have any insult, infection, a cold, heck a bad allergy attack, my autoimmune disease flares, with coughing that ramps up horribly. When it's JUST the Sarcoid, the coughing DOESN'T hurt BUT itches, as if you've been bitten by very mosquito that has ever existed. The cough I had when I was sick...HURT LIKE HELL! It's almost as if you don't want to take deep breaths because it HURT LIKE HELL. Even to the touch. IT hurt like I'd had my chest used as a chair by a 2 tonne bull.
I'm with you JCMACH1 & all others who had a weirdly horrible "flu" between mid-Nov-Early Feb. I believe that somebody in what passes for federal gov over TrumpTheOrangeAssholeLand knew that CV19 was here on the West coast but it took the cluster of deaths & lifethreatening illnesses in that Washington State Nursing home to amplify it so it could no longer be ignored by the media.
Bae believes, as do I, that he was infected in the airport because until the shutdown, he spent the better part of last year & the beginning of this year flying out on business...spent an avg of 3 weeks a month on business. Just before he brought CaptainTrumpz home, he'd been in Pryor, OK but I believe that he got it in the local INTERNATIONAL Airport, SMF & there were dozens here who got this mysterious malady here in the northstate & none of us could figure out what it was & WHY BECAUSE everyone had gotten flu shots, (mine was in late Sept & Bae? it about 3 wks later)& ALL the us who got tested, tested NEGATIVE for the flu.
The symptoms that have been widely disseminated, from the beginning to the worst of the MILD cases, matched what we went through, from the sore throat that seemed to come out of nowhere, to the tickle in the back of the throat to the horrifically painful body aches, etc, etc, etc.
EVERYONE described the body aches made it seem as if we'd all been in a BAD car accident & earned serious contusions from head to toe. Luckily, I CANNOT take ibuprofen, so all I had here was tylenol. I even had the infamous red eyes, as in swollen puffy & red lids all around my eyes & it looked like I'd been rubbing my eyes with fine gauge sandpaper & don't get me started with the throbbing headache which stayed with me for the better part of 8 days. Literally, it felt like it was throbbing in time with my heart beat, if that makes sense & the photophobia outlasted the actual "flu". Now, I was SICK as hell for almost 3 weeks & although I didn't have any true acute respiratory events like countless others have all across the world, I didn't have several events where I LITERALLY coughed for 30 minutes straight, It was to the point where I actually threw up.
Of course, I can't get tested but I'm hoping that there'll be tests given to see if anyone has gotten the virus & have recovered because I'd be willing to bet my life that I'll come up positive for antibodies from exposure to CV19. I just gotten to the point where I am no long coughing up my pancreas. I mean LITERALLY, as in yesterday is the first day I didn't wake up hacking. This was so totally unnecessary & I want to know if the families who so unnecessarily lost their loved ones,the folks who fought their way through this monster, those who've lost their jobs & housing or soon will can SUE the bastard for what seems to be INTENTIONAL neglect because this is bullsshit on a galactic level.
JCMach1
(27,572 posts)and nothing came bask positive. I can pretty much trace that I infected at least 2 other people directly The adult did not a diagnosis either. My 4yo nephew ended-up hospitalized in Dubai with what they though was RSV.
Like I said, I suppose I can't rule out a kick ass mutant whatever the hell case of adult RSV. Whatever it was was highly atypical.
An old college friend of mine who lives in Atlanta caught something flying on business to California. His respiratory whatever the hell it was hit in late December. He dangerously lost oxygenation and had to be ambulanced to the hospital.
I have had regular influenza many times... so much so I take the shot every year. I am also susceptible to pneumonia and bronchitis for whatever reason.
DeminPennswoods
(15,290 posts)the cough was something else, just as you describe, hurt all the core muscles. Like a worse version of the dry heaves.
fishwax
(29,149 posts)dalton99a
(81,569 posts)...
The American public is already asking tough questions.
Does the U.S. really need almost 15,000 people flying in from China each day? At a time when American students owe $1.5 trillion in student loans, it is smart to have some 360,000 Chinese students enrolled in U.S. colleges? Is it safe to fund hundreds of labs on university campuses that conduct joint research with Chinese academics?
Does the United States really wish to curtail fracking, which has made it the largest producer of natural gas in the world and ensured that a quarantined America has plenty of fuel?
https://www.foxnews.com/opinion/coronavirus-after-us-roaring-giant-crybaby-victor-davis-hanson
BadgerMom
(2,771 posts)The UK considered waiting for herd immunity to kick in. Experts disagreed. As a result of taking time to look into that approach, the UK experience of COVID-19 has been harsher than for some countries that instituted lock downs sooner. Sweden has made the pandemic worse for its people by following this course.
On the other hand, California locked down early and has had more success flattening the curve. Gov. Newsom has been applauded for this response. The RW jerks at the Hoover Institute cant stand that. They have to try to make Californias experience the result of herd immunity, a thoroughly worthless approach, rather than accept that good leadership was the reason.
appalachiablue
(41,170 posts)into the 'herd immunity' train- 'let the old people/pensioners die' until lately when Boris came down with Covid-19. 'Herd immunity' seems like nothing but anti-human, libertarian social Darwinism.
niyad
(113,532 posts)Quixote1818
(28,960 posts)reACTIONary
(5,771 posts).... at this august institution
https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/the-contrarian-coronavirus-theory-that-informed-the-trump-administration
denbot
(9,901 posts)Literally the first time in over 60 years I had all the classic symptoms. While Hanson is a heartless fuck, Id love to know what my antibody would show.