General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsTweet of the day!
Link to tweet
Any vote for anyone other than Joe Biden is a vote for Trump. We must make that clear!
Tree-Hugger
(3,370 posts)Siwsan
(26,263 posts)It didn't go well. For some reason he decided to turn his anger on to me. I did a 'virtual' walk away because it seemed really pointless to continue the dialog.
Initech
(100,076 posts)I keep thinking we're going to see some kind of resemblance of pre-virus life but every day I have my hopes dashed. I refuse to accept this as "the new normal".
Cha
(297,249 posts)it took me a few days but then I started campaigning for the winner.. always thinking more of our country than my own disappointment.
And, now it would be crazy suicide not to vote for our Dem.. AFAIC.
Siwsan
(26,263 posts)We had an abundance of very highly qualified candidates. Most have been gracious in how they conceded because they are putting the nation above their own ambitions.
If we were living in normal times, I would have had a difficult time settling on a candidate. But these times are far from normal. I joined 'Team Joe' early on, because I know we need someone well respected, who can hit the ground running with no need for a learning curve. And I felt, from the start, that a good number of the candidates will support our candidate, and they will have invaluable input, no matter who ended up as our candidate. The GOP is banking on some sort of big schism, within our party. I am 99.999999% they are going to be deeply disappointed.
As a side note, I admire Senator Sanders. He was my candidate in 2016 but I EASILY moved my support to Hillary Clinton. I just think this is the wrong election cycle for him to run.
Blue Owl
(50,383 posts)and shove 'em up your ass...
KPN
(15,646 posts)gratuitous
(82,849 posts)Let folks simmer down. Sen. Sanders suspended his campaign just yesterday, and his partisans are going to need some time to process, grieve, act out, and deal. It costs nothing for them to do that, although if I had my druthers, I'druther they did it a bit more privately.
Since that's not going to happen, let the process play out for a few days, maybe even a week. After that, let's handle each other with care. One of the most persuasive things I can think of is that Justice Ginsburg will not serve out the remainder of the next president's term. If you don't want Donald Trump naming her replacement (and you don't), then work like hell to beat him in November. I promise I'll listen to every last complaint from Sanders supporters when Trump loses the November election.
usedtobedemgurl
(1,139 posts)In the last 24 hours I have been told there is no difference and Joe and Donnie are both rapists. I have been told Joe was harder on immigration by throwing more folks out of the country. Joe changed his stance about gays. His healthcare policy is no good. Both sides cheat, so why even vote. This is by several different people. I have had it. One did: #writeinBernie. We are in a lot of trouble.
relayerbob
(6,544 posts)It's not always that way to spot them, but call them out (I usually ask if they got paid in advance, as Trump's checks bounce) ... and they'll usually disappear
jayschool2013
(2,312 posts)by a Sanders supporter that "the system" is in need of being dismantled, and that the quickest way to bring on the "progressive revolution" is to put Trump back in the White House to "tear it all down."
I just can't anymore, and though I know this person is in the minority of Bernie supporters, it is a strain.
John Fante
(3,479 posts)Unlike 2016 (but very much like 2018) this will be a high turnout election, so the Bernie Buster "both sides" bullshit won't be as harmful this time around.
If anything, it was harmful to Bernie's campaign, and likely played a big role in cratering his campaign. The Bernie Buster act is stale.
Scarsdale
(9,426 posts)waiting to vote in Wisconsin, I thought "These voters are NOT tRump people" I have to think Joe won big, in spite of the traitorous gop there.
SheltieLover
(57,073 posts)Ms. Toad
(34,073 posts)Seriously. My daughter and two close friends are in the category of people who are now threatening (or are a hair's breadth away) from not voting - or from writing in Sanders.
They are angry. They are grieving. But at least these three are reachable - but not by heaping anticipatory guillt on them. Especially not right now.
I was surprised by the vehemence - and the absolute trash my daughter repeated to me about Biden (with absolute certainty that it was true). She was unaware that some of Bernie's followers stick just as closely to the truth as Trump followers. Many are people of good will, but some of the strongest voices are as much a cult as Trump's followers.
We need to counter the voices of the cult-like few with reason, in order to reach the majority who are people like my daughter and my two friends I know of who are strong Sanders supporters because they actually do like his politics. It will take some deprogramming - but these are people who - at their core - hate everything Trump stands for.
onetexan
(13,041 posts)then why would they not vote for Biden the anti-Trump, thus enabling the Idiot to have another term?
As you said, cultish following.
Ms. Toad
(34,073 posts)Those vocal few have learned how to craft their message so that even reasonably intelligent people (primed by the alternate facts we've all been inundated with), are apparently not able to sort fact from fiction.
My daughter announced yesterday, as if it was fact that everyone knew, that Biden was a pedophile. I talked her down from that - but the reality that Biden does actually have personal boundary issues. That history tilled the soil for a picture of him comforting hid grandson to be believably portrayed as sexual interst in a young child.
Before you proclaim that she should have known better, should have checked the facts, etc. how many on DU believed that the foil-blanket covered refugees in a cage depicted current events (rather than photos of children in cages under the Obama administration)? How many believed the rosaries collected from refugees during Obama and prior administrations were evidence of Trump's evil? How many told me that it was absolutely irrelevant that we were spreading photos of things that occurred under the Obama administration to trash Trump? There is way too much stuff on DU that is just plain false, but we share it because of confirmation bias without checking the facts for DU to get on a high horse about people who spread/believe information without checking the source.
The other two believe the very recent report from a former Biden staffer who has made rape allegations about him. One has flat out declared that she will not vote for a rapist. Frankly, this allegation bothers me - as well. I spent a sixth of my life very deeply involved in anti-rape work. My inclination is to believe women who allege rape, because the presumption is to believe the rapist. I've read one account that raises my something-not-quite-right antennae, but not enough to dismiss it. That may be my own confirmation bias speaking - I don't want to believe that our only alternative to Trump might actually have raped someone.
Even if it turns out to be true - Trump is thousands of degrees worse, so I will still be voting for Biden. But I understand my friends' reactions - especially since the allegation came so close in time to Sanders' withdrawal from the race.
onetexan
(13,041 posts)Ms. Toad
(34,073 posts)Who were using the Obama-era foil blanket pictures to condemn Trump are also indoctrinated and displaying cultish behavior? It's no different.
People on DU so wanted to believe how evil Trump was, that they didn't question, or do basic research when those images started circulating and connected to Trump. The pictures fed into their confirmation bias - and they were so tied to the concept that Trump was evil that, even when uncontroverted evidence that the photos were taken during the Obama administration was provided, they (1) refused to believe it - or (2) insisted that it was perfectly fine to use Obama-era pictures to prove Trump is evil.
Trump does happen to be evil - BUT - along the way to the truth, many on DU latched onto the outlandish (false meme) that attributed those specific images to Trump.
A lot of people are failing to do simple reality checks on the information presented to them, especially when it sounds so good (or bad to the other side). They are repeating it to others as fact. That is happening with increasing frequency - on both sides of the political aisle. Although I agree it is irresponsible, it's not cultish, in the same way as the actions of the people who took the grain of truth, distorted it, and are deliberately distributing it for political gain.
John Fante
(3,479 posts)It is a FACT that Trump was seperating children from their parents and locking them in cages. That is not a smear, never was. The pictures taken from the Obama era were reported as false almost immediately, but there was nothing outlandish about them. If anything, they were probably tame compared to what was going at the height of that scandal. We don't know because Trump wouldn't let reporters inside these camps.
Also, those pictures helped Trump spread the lie that Obama had a child seperation policy as well. THAT is a smear. A smear that Bernie Bros pushed as well btw.
Comparing this to Bernie Bro smears is ridiculous. Joe is a pedophile, Joe is a rapist, Joe has dementia, etc. Those are smears. One Bro on Twitter was practically accusing Biden of being the architect of the Iraq War, right down to the creation of ISIS. I asked him to show the moment when George W Bush and Biden morphed into same person, and he replied with some irrelevant article from
1998. THAT is a smear.
Ms. Toad
(34,073 posts)That's the kind of response that Trump supporters give, or Bernie supporters give when actual facts contradict the narrative that confirms our bias.
It was a flat out lie that the pictures initially circulating on DU were pictures of what Trump did to children. They were reported as false immediately - AND far too many on DU did exactly as you are doing now: the children in a chage with foil blankets is nothing like Trump; nothing outlandish about them. Do you hear what you are saying? There is nothing outlandish about children in dog pens with foil blanket? Of course it is outlandish, and offensive, and yes - our president perpetuated immigration policies that were inhumane.
Yes - Trump was far worse for a whole crap-ton of reasons. BUT (1) anyone who was outraged by those images when they thought they depicted what Trump was doing to immigrant children but NOT when it turns out they were pictures of immingrant children under the Obama administratino is a hypocrite and (2) those pictures had NOTHING to do with Trump.
And even now, you're excusing the reaction on DU, and telling me that facts (horiffic images that were not the responsibliity of Trump attributed to him) don't matter.
Facts do matter - and far too many people on DU excuse inconvenient facts - in the same way that some Bernie supporters ignore or explain away actual facts, and Trump supporters ignore or explain away inconvenient facts.
That, alone, doesn't make one cult-like. Sloppy as to the truth, perhaps. Human, because we want to believe things that confirm our biases - and we don't want to believe anything bad about our heroes.
We all need to get better at checking our facts before we spread them as true.
And people who are merely believing - and even repeating - things that fit their confirmation bias can be reached - in a way that those who intentionally create the lies in the first place can't.
So, to answer my own question - no - you're not cult-like. But perhaps you can understand why others similarly situated as to people whose politics they support might - without being cult-like - are also not being cult-like, deserve a bit of time to mourn, and after that deserve to be helped to learn the truth so that we have a chance of getting the orange idiot out of the white house.
warmfeet
(3,321 posts)Deserves about 75 million Recommendations, all for Joe Biden.
James48
(4,436 posts)But you guys don't understand that this isn't going to be enough.
Somebody is going to have to create a movement and coalition to get enough votes to overcome Trump.
I just don't see any enthusiasm for Joe, that would rise to the level necessary.
It's not that I won't vote for him. I will.
I just spent two election cycles, however, knocking on doors, and waiving signs, and debating policy positions-
and I don't see anybody else doing that for Joe.
I see today, Joe is announcing "Medicare at Age 60" as his big goal. His big concession to get Sanders supporters on-board.
That's not going to do much good for the 15 million people who lost their job related health care in the last four weeks.
Medicare-for-All - not tied to the job you hold, is the thing that it is the time for. Joe isn't there.
I'm saddened for our nation.
Mr.Bill
(24,294 posts)It's called the Democratic Party. Anyone can join it or not. It's their choice.
How did that work out in 2016?
I will vote for Joe.
Mr.Bill
(24,294 posts)They only won by cheating, and that's the issue that needs to be addressed. We outnumber them, plain and simple.
And thanks for voting for Joe.
Dem2theMax
(9,651 posts)Beat Trump. That is our only goal.
There is no place for hand-wringing or weeping or 'oh what could have been.'
Put a Democrat in the White House. Then we can discuss what happens from that point forward.
To anyone who has a Bernie supporter who is feeling down right now, give them time. You don't have to convince them right this second that they have to vote for Joe.
Biden supporters would be feeling the same thing if it had turned out the other way.
It's all about beating Trump. That is all it is about right now. Repeat that over and over and over to yourselves. And when your friends have calmed down, just tell them that if they don't vote FOR Joe, they ARE voting for Trump.
Fritz Walter
(4,291 posts)I have a distant relation who is a Bernie-bot, and shes still in the sackcloth-and-ashes stage after this weeks news, as evidenced by her incessant boo-hooing on FB. She and all the other bots need to wake the fuck up! By withholding their active support of VP Biden, theyre playing right into the hands of the GOP. But theyre blind to that.
When and if she gets over the reality of our current situation, Ill resume communication with her. In the meantime, she can continue to choke on her own bile.
ronatchig
(575 posts)The party has spoken. I supported Bernie in my primary here in NC but it was close for me. I almost went Warren but opted for the Bern. Now I will work to gotv for Joe. In fact let me say
GO JOE GO!!!
Pillow talk
(265 posts)Tiger8
(432 posts)Facebook had my blood boiling this AM with the Biden=Trump lies, so I decided to exit lurker status on here and join for a dose of sanity. Thank you all for being here....
This is just more evidence that Russian Troll Farms are highly active and sophisticated operations. I think Bernie supporters have been targeted for several months, and this is the result. How else can they believe such outlandish lies and be so impervious to facts or logic? And worse, they repeat this nonsense to others. Cant they see theyre unwittingly working for their own destruction?
So I dont know what to do. This is going to be a very ugly, traumatizing election, and I just wanna scream from the rooftops.
The Magistrate
(95,247 posts)Tiger8
(432 posts)gldstwmn
(4,575 posts)after a month of Bozo the Orange Clown's pandemic pressers.
LakeArenal
(28,818 posts)WTF...Thats just pot stirring and bs.
Initech
(100,076 posts)They've already got bots and trolls bombarding Twitter and Facebook with bogus rape claims. I just hope it doesn't escalate.
LakeArenal
(28,818 posts)jimlup
(7,968 posts)lifetime.
Just say'n
Go Joe! The sooner the better!
Marrah_Goodman
(1,586 posts)Whoever my candidate is always loses the primary...But that is what a primary is. It is choosing a candidate. Biden has been chosen so he gets my vote.
liberalla
(9,248 posts)So many "Tweets of the day!"
but this one I really like! K & R!