It's entirely possible that COVID-19 has been circulating

[MineralMan]

for quite some time in the United States. Why do I suggest this? Well, back in December, I had a very uncharacteristic respiratory illness. A low fever and a dry cough. My wife caught it from me. There were never any upper respiratory symptoms. No stuffy nose or sore throat. We called it a "chest cold." We know several people who had a similar minor illness around that same time, and right through January. The words everyone used to describe it was "a weird cold."

Now, it could have been a different strain of coronavirus, since about half of all "colds" are caused by a coronavirus. Or, it could have been the strain that is causing so much alarm right now. I don't know.

The cough hung on for a couple of weeks, and then disappeared. The fever lasted only a couple of days. It was "weird," because of the fever and lack of upper respiratory symptoms. Not a typical cold at all.

I wouldn't say that it was the COVID-19 strain, but it might have been.

I wonder if there is any lingering immunity that minor infection bestowed to the current wave. I have no idea, and probably will never know.

[OhZone]

1. Yeah, well -

regular colds don't cause a fever, do they?

So who knows?

[unblock]

36. Colds can certainly cause fever.

Flu is more likely to cause fever, but fever is not uncommon as a cold symptom.

[whopis01]

154. Colds can cause fevers. n/t

[luvs2sing]

2. Similar situation here.

Husband came home January 30 with a cough and fever of around 100. The next afternoon I got it and had a mild dry cough and fever around 101 for about 24 hours. Within two days we were both recovered except for the cough which slowly went away. I figured we just had a mild strain of regular flu. But you may be on to something.

[getagrip_already]

3. there was a vid posted recently from a scientist discussing distancing...

But one of the things he discussed was "viral loading". He was saying that if you are exposed to a small amount of inoculate, the disease takes longer to multiply in your system and that gives your immune system time to react to it. This results in more mild symptoms and a quicker recovery.

Conversely, a sudden extreme inoculation (as in someone sneezing in your face) caused a quick increase in the virus in your system and more severe impacts.

He was discussing it in the context of masks and how they do help healthy people by reducing the amount of inoculate you will inhale if you encounter it.

That is contrary to cdc advice, which seems more aimed at extending their meager mask stocks than providing sound medical advice. They only have 2.5m masks stockpiled and there are none on the open market right now. They will need 20m.

[LisaL]

8. Exactly. There are not enough masks for everyone.

I absolutely believe if everybody wore masks, we would be much better off.

[getagrip_already]

11. not enough ppe, not enough ventilators, not enough icu beds....

but plenty of money for the bond market and to bail out mega corps and the travel and trump industries....

Let the people eat virus.

[at140]

105. Mask material has bigger openings than size of virus

so if someone coughs or sneezes near you, mask will not stop you from breathing in the virus.
Only surgical grade masks can give some protection, 95% of masks sold on market do not.

But any mask is extremely effective in protecting OTHERS from YOU!
Because when you cough or sneeze, the droplets are trapped by the mask.

[Sugar Smack]

27. Was that Chris Martsnson? He's talked about that on YouTube.

I really trust him over whatever the WHO or CDC is saying.

[getagrip_already]

31. yes... here is the link

[Sugar Smack]

34. Thanks for putting this up!

This guy has a fantastic brain, and I think, just exactly the right attitude.

[SaveOurDemocracy]

94. Will you please make this it's own op? I would like to bookmark it. Thanks.

Perhaps we should have a dedicated covid-19 group where info and the latest relevant updates can be posted in one easy to find location.

[mercuryblues]

106. Several days ago I asked the Admin

if they would create a forum for Covid-19. Never heard back. Maybe if enough people did, they will. IOW: DU, do your thing.

[SaveOurDemocracy]

150. I went and asked after I posted that, no reply as yet. 😷

[phylny]

156. Fascinating information, thank you!

[Dave in VA]

4. Sounds similar

to what my wife experienced about a month ago. She has Crohn's Disease and is on immune suppressants due to this issue. Saying that, she rarely gets a cold. Always gets her flu shots. But this one seemed to come on quickly with the same symptoms you describe. Also called it a chest cold.

Curious minds want to know!

Thanks for posting.

[Wounded Bear]

5. The fact thay they're already finding alternatve DNA strands is kind of suspicious...

It takes a bit of time for viruses to mutate.

You're probably right.

[Laelth]

38. AFAIK, SARS viruses can and do mutate very rapidly. n/t

-Laelth

[Ms. Toad]

63. No. It doesn't - and no, he is not right.

Viruses mutate very rapidly (why do you think the flu vaccine is never, since ~2011) been more than 50% effective?

Here is the genetic tracing. You can see the mutations, you can see they all trace back to a single origin. There are no magically appearing strains that are not connected to the single origin (as would be expected if it was circulating in the US prior to infecting people in China)

https://nextstrain.org/ncov

[jeffreyi]

85. I was wondering the same thing, but no.

Thanks for that link.

[babydollhead]

6. early january, husband I were laid low by same thing

we watched "Anne with an E", and felt dead, and all we could muster up energy for was getting back to green gables and sipping soup and tea, in bed.

[Thomas Hurt]

7. I had the flu over christmas. Was odd in that my oxygen level was low in this bout.

I wrote that off to me getting older but I have to wonder if it was a brush with CV considering I am almost certain I picked it up on a plane.

[Ace Rothstein]

9. Yep, my wife and I think that she had it as well as our 9 year old daughter.

It hit my wife a lot worse than my daughter. My wife had a bad cough for about 2 weeks and some pretty severe congestion along with a fever that lasted a few days. The cough lingered on for about 2 more weeks. She was tested for the flu and that turned up negative, they said it was a virus. My daughter had a fever for a day and a cough for about 5 days.

[DFW]

10. Maybe a test would reveal a previous infection and buildup of corresponding antibodies?

On the other hand, if so, and they say your blood is the perfect base for a vaccine, you might want to consider a hastily decided last-minute vacation on Nauru.

[Igel]

14. I don't know that they have a test for COVID-19 antibodies yet.

Sort of not a real priority right now. It doesn't further containment or mitigation, has no relationship to treatment. Knowledge for knowledge sake's something I'm seriously into, but I still have more pressing concerns sometimes.

Problem is that it's a pretty generic set of symptoms (except for the final bit involving death, and even that's not extreme for the flu) so lots of things look at lot like covid-19.

As for circulating early, it's likely that it was in the US by the end of winter break. The only way we'll ever know is to go back and look at any death that might have been caused by it and test whatever samples remain.

They did something like that in China and found evidence of its circulating more widely earlier than first thought. They still had a fair number of flu test kits that had been used. They tested those that came back negative for COVID-19 and found a number of cases. (And still they had leftover cases with similar symptoms, negative on flu and COVID-19.)

[dalton99a]

12. From yesterday's paper in Science:

Estimation of the prevalence and contagiousness of undocumented novel coronavirus (SARS-CoV2) infections is critical for understanding the overall prevalence and pandemic potential of this disease. Here we use observations of reported infection within China, in conjunction with mobility data, a networked dynamic metapopulation model and Bayesian inference, to infer critical epidemiological characteristics associated with SARS-CoV2, including the fraction of undocumented infections and their contagiousness. We estimate 86% of all infections were undocumented (95% CI: [82%–90%]) prior to 23 January 2020 travel restrictions. Per person, the transmission rate of undocumented infections was 55% of documented infections ([46%–62%]), yet, due to their greater numbers, undocumented infections were the infection source for 79% of documented cases. These findings explain the rapid geographic spread of SARS-CoV2 and indicate containment of this virus will be particularly challenging.

[NurseJackie]

13. Are you immune? Or... are survivors of COVID19 immune to reinfection?

OR... is it possible that they can catch it again, or relapse? I haven't heard anyone discuss this, have you?

[MineralMan]

22. All questions without answers, really.

One of the problems is that coronavirus infections are very common, so it's hard to say one way or another. I see that others are reporting similar "chest colds" with low fever here, around the same time. It could be a completely different strain of the virus that caused that. But nobody knows, because who does anything about a cold?

[Demsrule86]

26. I read that if you become reinfected, you are more likely to die...this virus causes lung damage

even in the young...according to what I read.

https://www.sciencealert.com/even-those-who-recover-from-corona-can-be-left-gasping-for-breath-afterwards

[obamanut2012]

61. People are not being reinfected -- this has been disproven

People need to quit sharing misinformation.

[Demsrule86]

80. Nothing has been disproved. There are not even antibody tests yet.

[empedocles]

15. My wife and I, and 3 other family members who don't live here, have had

a transient light cough, few times a day at most, for months. Always assumed it was some kind of virus.

[marble falls]

16. Thanksgiving week I got something that gor into my lungs lieraly overnight after getting ...

my flu shot at VA. By Thanksgiving Day I had a deep cough and started passing out when I coughed. I finally went to the ER the Sunday after TG and was admitted and spent most of the week there. They could find no reason beside "rhinovirus except that it was deep in my lungs.

The symptoms match what I've read: fever on and off, poor oxygen absorbtion, totaly weak, hot then cold, lots of 'non productive heavy coughing etc.

[Turin_C3PO]

49. Exactly what I experienced.

Literally everything you said. They told me it was likely a terrible chest cold.

[marble falls]

70. Colds roll in, this came on like instantly - one minute feeling good, the next BANG sick, right?

[MFM008]

142. Me too

But it was around halloween.
I thought chills with a cold?
Lung infection...lasted for weeks.

[smirkymonkey]

160. I had the same thing right after Thanksgiving and it lasted for about a month.

Dry, unproductive cough. I was coughing so violently I was choking on it.

[marble falls]

161. My cough lasted until after Christmas, too. Dry but racking.

[pattyloutwo]

17. Same with me

Early January, dry cough and fever for days. I’m wondering..

[Zoonart]

118. Mr. and me..

Headache, chills, lethargy, cough, fever...Dec 28 thru Jan 20 or so.

[Phentex]

18. I think you are right...

lots of teachers had something similar at our preschool. There are so many illnesses there, it's hard to know what's what. We even suspected a "sick" building. It could very well have been this virus.

[MineralMan]

25. That's the problem with this. There are so many upper respiratory illnesses

that never even get seen by doctors, and schools are definitely breeding grounds for them. We catch them, and deal with them without any medical attention. Apparently COVID-19 causes mild infections in most people, but bad ones in others. So, it's impossible to say, since nobody tests people with colds for any particular virus. Most people never bother to go to the doctor at all with such symptoms, because we've all had bad colds at one time or another.

I'm certainly not saying that's the case with this, and severe illness seems more prevalent in the current epidemic, but I think it's interesting to think about.

[livetohike]

19. I was sicker than I've ever been back in Nov. Fever of

104 F for four days before I went to Urgent Care. I had hives on both legs and didn’t know what it was. They sent me to the ER. They tested for flu and it was negative. Xrays on the lungs were clear. I had a dry cough with no nasal congestion.I was so weak and tired. The ER Doctor said I had a virus and “they could test for it but it would cost $1600”. He said there would be nothing to treat it with other than to get the fever down, drink lots of water and rest.

I went to my PCP two days later because the fever was hovering at 103F and the hives kept coming back/going away/coming back. They drew blood to check for Lyme disease and she started me on doxycycline. The results came back negative.

I was so tired and no appetite for three weeks. The fever finally went away by alternating Ibuprofen and Tylenol.

[Demsrule86]

23. I was too...ended up in hospital...really ill and a forty something woman where my daughter worked

died at my daughters job in the ladies room..she had been coughing and been sick for a while.

[SWBTATTReg]

74. I read your post re. lyme disease, I was just curious if somehow, lyme disease is related to ...

this covad 19 going around? The only reason I asked is (1) why did they test you specifically for lyme disease vs. all of the other stuff out there (you could have indicated perhaps to the docs that you were in the woods etc.)?

The only reason I bring this up is that my dog tested positive for lyme disease when I took her in to be checked out by the vet (which at that time, we treated her w/ antibiotics), and then later on, when I went in for my annual physical, and had the usual blood work done, they asked me if I knew that I had lyme disease. I said no, I didn't. Apparently they discovered antibodies for lyme disease in my blood work. Apparently me and my dog both got lyme disease at the same time (we were down in the Ozarks at my place for a regular trip).

Thanks, be safe, and take care.

[livetohike]

104. Hi. We live in the woods in northwestern PA where Lyme disease

is prevalent. Plus I had it before, but had the classic bullseye rash (and I barely had any other symptoms). My dogs get it every year despite using monthly preventative drops and a yearly Lyme disease shot! They are given a three week course of antibiotics, retested and given more if necessary.

Maybe researchers will find a connection between the two. The symptoms are far ranging with Lyme, so who knows? 🤔

[SWBTATTReg]

108. Thanks so much. I was shocked and surprised that I too, had lyme disease, didn't even know ...

it either. I should have put 2 plus 2 together when my dog tested positive for it, but didn't at the time, until I got the results of my annual blood work back. Take care and be safe!! Thanks again.

[RobinA]

115. Lyme

is a bacteria.

[panader0]

20. I've had low fever and a slight cough for a month.

I haven't been sick in almost two years. I figured it was a flu, something I
had never had shots for, but have now decided I will from now on. I'm 69.
I play music with four or five other guys. Two of them developed pneumonia,
and got antibiotics. I never felt really bad, just weak and a bit short of
breath. No reports of CV-19 in Cochise County yet. No tp either.

[Turin_C3PO]

21. Same here.

I had something in January that was almost a cross between a cold and flu. It was kind of weird. I’ve wondered about it too.

[cry baby]

24. Early February, my daughter and her 3 yr old had what dr called

a unknown respiratory virus. Both felt terrible with fever and other typical symptoms of Coronavirus. It went through the veterinary clinic where she works.

I suspect that she was visited by this virus. We’ll never know for sure.

[MineralMan]

29. Could be. Now, we're testing. Earlier, we weren't.

So, nobody knows what was already going around before testing began.

[cry baby]

50. Exactly. I wonder if doctors widely knew at the time of the

Coronavirus. Surely, there were people like my daughter going to doctors offices with similar symptoms. They must have noticed a trend. I was thinking at the time that daughter was sick how unsatisfying the conclusion of “ unknown/unnamed respiratory virus” was.

[MineralMan]

51. Well, they know about coronaviruses in general, since

half of colds are caused by them. But the unspecified virus is a typical answer, since actual testing is almost never done for relatively mild respiratory illnesses. They're just too common and resolve on their own without treatment. Usually.

Oddly enough, a few very serious cases or even deaths might go relatively unnoticed during flu season, really. Since Tens of thousands die each year from the flu, a few cases not associated with the flu might happen without seeming out of the ordinary.

Had there not been an outbreak in China, we might not even know about this at all right now.

[cry baby]

56. Totally true!

Happy that you recovered well and are healthy now.

[MineralMan]

58. It was just a cold. I've had dozens of them.

I'm just musing about the possibility that this might have been going on longer than we know about, undetected and unidentified..

[totodeinhere]

35. You might be able to know if they get a covid-19 test.

I'm not sure how it works and if the test will show positives for people who had it weeks ago, but it might be worth a shot.

[cry baby]

44. Hopefully they'll come up with a test that can pick up

on the antibodies. And maybe by that time, they’ll know if people develop immunity to it.

[leftyladyfrommo]

28. I was in the hospital in January.

They told me the hospital was full. So I asked if it was the flu and they said "no" that it was some weird respiratory thing.

[MineralMan]

30. Hmm...

Interesting.

[Cracklin Charlie]

62. I don't like to assume.

Do you live in Missouri now?

I do live in Missouri, and I had some nasty thing end of January, and I know lots of other folks that were sick since Christmas as well.

I think it’s been here awhile.

[leftyladyfrommo]

82. Yes. I live in KCMO. nt

[totodeinhere]

32. If you really did get it and if you have recovered then thank God for your recovery.

I wonder if exposure to the virus last December would be sufficient for it to show up on a covid-19 test now. If so then I think you would be a candidate for getting the test.

[MineralMan]

37. Well, if I'm right and it has been around for a while,

there would be too many people to test, really, who had completely recovered. I don't know if there's a test for antibodies to the virus, but that would be what they'd test for.

I'm seeing a lot of people here describing similar things back in December, January, and February. So, it's possible it has been in circulation for a while. Or not. The focus is elsewhere at this point, though.

[ProfessorGAC]

33. Week B4 Christmas Here

Bad respiratory problem with unproductive cough. Muscle aches too, but not major.
However, I did not have a fever.
So, it was considered bronchitis. Albuterol helped a lot, and antibiotics helped after a couple days. Antibiotics suggest not a virus.
So, maybe it just bronchitis. After all, I subbed 9 times in December which is about half the days that month. And 7 of them were junior high, not HS.
Don't want to jump to conclusions.

[MineralMan]

41. No conclusions here. Just questions.

[ProfessorGAC]

48. Wasn't Accusing MM

Didn't mean for it to come off as criticism. Just proffering a personal event.

[RhodeIslandOne]

138. It would be a more pleasant conclusion

The idea that people can have it go thru their system and ride it out at home.

[ProfessorGAC]

141. Probably So

I've had noughts with bronchitis in the past, so I think the docs got it right.
But, it would be nice to think a 4 day ride out was possible.

[RhodeIslandOne]

147. I have bronchitis too at times

It’s never knocked me out where I couldn’t function and had to stay home. If I had your symptoms I’d probably think it was the flu or this thing.

[ProfessorGAC]

148. No Fever

That's why it didn't seem like flu to me or the docs.
But, who knows for sure. In 4 days I was out & about. And by the time I was over it, Winter Break started and the schools didn't need sub's.
So, I had all the way to Jan 6 to be sure I wouldn't pass anything on, if I was wrong.

[Progressive Jones]

39. A round of something similar went around our house in January.

We wrote it off as some "bug" our daughter brought home from school (she's 11 years old).
I had it the worst. I'm 60. My wife had it a little easier than me. She's 49.

[woodsprite]

40. I had something similar back over xmas, although fever wise, it didn't fit the MO.

Someone was sick in a music group I'm in. Out of 8 people, 5 people got whatever it was. We all were sick within 7-10 days. All stood either next to or in front of the lady that graced us with her presence that day. I remember feeling unbelievably drained and exhausted; fever of around 100-101, cough (thought it was going down into my chest), sinus drainage like you wouldn't believe. I actually said it felt like someone turned the faucet on and I could drown if I didn't start getting better. My daughter caught it from me, but nobody else in our house did.

[kimbutgar]

42. I was really sick mid January

One day could not get out of bed. Terrible cough, body ache and fever. I wonder if I got the early version also?

My husband also got sick and was in bed for a full day. We brought Clorox wipes and wiped off all the surfaces in the house when we felt better. Our son came home the next weekend and never got it.

[CanonRay]

43. My neighbors experienced the same thing

They were sick for over a week

[unblock]

45. There's a suspicion that there are two similiar viruses

One being mild, the other being very severe.

[peacefreak2.0]

46. Wondering the same thing.

Not usually prone to bronchitis, but this “cold” made me nervous. Took to my bed, in front of a humidifier. Deep cough for three weeks after that.

[marlakay]

47. I had the same thing and was sick

Most of December and part of Jan when I caught it for second time. Both times had cough and fever and it was unlike any cold or flu I had had before.

I am one of those that does nasal rinses for my normal sinus issues so i did it a lot. I have read in many places that doing so makes the problem in your lungs not as bad, wondering if thats why I didn’t get worse or I had a milder case.

I have been curious too.

[El Supremo]

52. My wife brought home something in late December.

She was sick and a clinic said it was an upper respiratory virus. I got sick on Xmas day (ruined the day) and had a small fever along with diarrhea. I lost five pounds. It went away in less than a week but bronchitis lasted for two.

I haven't had anything like it for many years. I did have a cold in January 2019. So it was something new that I wasn't immune to.

[Victory at Yorktown]

53. I had the same mid-January

I had a day of jury duty on Wed. (Jan.8) and ended up next to someone with a bad cough. Sure enough three days later felt very week and basically slept one Sat. afternoon until Sunday night. I didn't take my temperature but could have had a low one. Then came a very deep cough and congestion deep in the lungs that hung on for two weeks. Never had head congestion or a runny nose, which was odd. I was worried about developing pneumonia but it ended up gradually clearing up. The whole thing lasted over a month. I think I had the same thing.

[jberryhill]

54. No, that is simply wishful thinking

Yes, a normal seasonal cold went around.

No, it did not do to people what covid-19 is doing.

This is a popular “dumb thing people are passing around on the internet” thing. But it is wildly inconsistent with the observed reality of covid-19 infections and their statistical outcomes.

[BusyBeingBest]

55. I will say my husband had what he considered "the flu" in mid-January.

Fever, unproductive coughing, body aches, NO gastrointestinal symptoms--lasted about 3-4 days. He had had a flu shot, so I was surprised. I didn't have a flu shot, didn't get sick myself although he was hacking right next to me in bed for consecutive nights. Now I wonder...

[Cracklin Charlie]

57. I think I may have had it.

I ran a fever for four days, starting January 24th. Headache, body aches, cough, some congestion. I missed a full week of work, cause I didn’t think anyone should be around me.

I can’t even remember the last time I ran a fever before that. It was pretty bad.

[Ms. Toad]

59. That's the same theory I've been trying to quash in a right wing republican FB "friend" of mine.

You do know they have traced a lot of the genetics of this thing though mutations that have occurred in the US. The community transmissions on which they have done the genetic testing come from China, with specific mutations that occurred early in the US in Washington.

https://www.fredhutch.org/en/news/center-news/2020/03/tracking-covid-19-trevor-bedford.html

https://nextstrain.org/ncov

(ETA: I see the genetic tracing has progressed significantly since I last saw it - but the general point remains. All the existing mutations can be traced back to the original patients in Chihna)

[MineralMan]

67. Interesting.

I have never heard of fredhutch.org, though, so I have no way to evaluate it.

Most researchers are tracking this from China, that's true. I'm asking a question, actually. It's interesting to hear from people, I think.

[Ms. Toad]

103. You can do your own resesarch, but here's a bit of explanation

of nextstrain (the article is not about one person - it is about a respected open source project):

In the case of the Seattle area teenager, genetic data about his strain of Covid-19 was uploaded to Gisaid, a platform for sharing genomic data. Then researchers at Nextstrain made the connection with the earlier patient.

Nextstrain is an open source application that tracks the evolution of viruses and bacteria, including Covid-19, Ebola, and lesser-known outbreaks such as Enterovirus D68 using data sourced largely from Gisaid. Hodcroft and other researchers involved with the project analyze the data shared on Gisaid for mutations and visualize the results. That’s how the team was able to spot the connection between the two Covid-19 cases in Washington.

Nextstrain’s work is enabled by the widespread sharing of data by scientists and health professionals. Duncan MacCannell, the chief science officer for the Center for Disease Control's Office of Advanced Molecular Detection, says public health authorities, universities, and clinical laboratories are releasing genomic data from Covid-19 specimens at unprecedented speed—often within 48 hours of a specimen arriving at a sequencing laboratory.

https://www.wired.com/story/data-sharing-open-source-software-combat-covid-19/

[jberryhill]

119. Have you ever heard of the "Nobel Prize"?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Hutchinson_Cancer_Research_Center

The center has employed three recipients of the Nobel Prize in physiology or medicine:

Linda Buck, Ph.D., who received the award in 2004 for solving many details of the olfactory system; and

E. Donnall Thomas, M.D., who received the award in 1990 for his pioneering work in bone-marrow transplantation and who died in 2012; and

Lee Hartwell, Ph.D., who received the honor in 2001 for his discoveries regarding the mechanisms that control cell division. After retiring from leading the center in 2010, Hartwell left to join Arizona State University.

-----------

[MineralMan]

123. Thanks for that information.

I had just clicked the link in the previous reply, and did not investigate further, so I appreciate your additional info.

And yes, I have heard of the Nobel Prize, thanks.

[BusyBeingBest]

75. From what I've read in Wired, the first cases were noticed in China in November.

They noticed by the first week of December that it was being transmitted between people, including people who had zero contact with wet markets or risky animals. It's not too preposterous to believe the virus may have had a farther reach both inside and outside China than previously known. Is it likely that ordinary Americans with no international travel may have picked it up at Christmastime or in January? Probably not, but there's no way to know now. Tracing mutations, that's kind of a guess.

[Ms. Toad]

100. Tracing the mutations is not a guess.

Every person they have traced goes back to the cases in China.

Essentially, once a separate chain arises (becuase of a mutation), the descendants of each chain will forever be distinct. The desdendants tested are not.

Think of a string of 100 white beads. If the third bead "mutates" and becomes a black bead all of the children will have that black bead. If one of those children swaps out the 12th bead for a blue one, all of the children of those children will have both a black bead in position 3 and a blue bead in position 12.

NOW - assume that the entirely white string was running around for a while - maybe since October, with no mutations. One of those white bead strings came to the US in October - and the rest stayed in China. Further, assume that the string we've just been discussing (the black bead in position 3) was a mutation in China.

IN the US, however, bead 4 turned red. So all of the descendants of this chain have a red bead at position 4.

Then - someone with the black-bead-in-position-3 strain came to the US.

We now have two distinct strains in the US

Now - if we sequenced people in the US, we would see some that have a black bead in position 3 (and children that have other mutations). We would also see some that have a blue bead in position 4 (and children that have other mutations)

ALL we are seeing are the chains that have the black bead in position 3 (from the china string). We are not seeing any children that do not have the black bead in position 3. We are not seeing children that have the blue bead in position 4.

That means that the virus was not circulating in the US prior to the original cases we have identified from China.

That's simplified, but it really is pretty precise and,(barring new discoveries equivalent to a blue bead in position 4, it exlcudes circulation of this virus in the US prior to the cases coming in from China.

[BusyBeingBest]

113. I'm not saying the virus didn't have origins in China.

I fully believe it did. I'm saying maybe it slipped loose from China earlier than we realized. Maybe it had a month-long or six-week long head start before medical personnel realized what was happening.

[Ms. Toad]

121. My point isn't the exact timing -

But that it all traces back to those early December cases in China (not in October, November, or early December), since every case in the US is a descendant of those cases

[obamanut2012]

60. I had the exact same thing, and it was also a very unusual "cold virus" for me to have

It presented itself weirdly, including the dry hacking cough and the aches. I saw my doctor two weeks ago for my MMJ followup and mentioned this to him, and he said it wouldn't surprise him if some of us have had it. Not that we did, but it is totally possible. Also, that this year's flu season had a lot of elderly very sick with pneumonia, and he and his colleagues are now wondering about that, too.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

64. I have a friend with pre-existing severe respiratory ailments

who lived in Florida who suffered an extreme what was believed to be asthma attack at the beginning of February that killed her suddenly. It may have been what we all initially were told that it was but after hearing of how far and wide this may have been circulating, I now am wondering.........

[mecherosegarden]

65. I was in Lombardy, Italy, in December of last year.

On the 26, I started running a fever , along with dry cough , chills and feeling weak. I thought it was the flu. Came home January 2nd. Fever came back , chest felt like I had someone pushing it in. Couldn't breathe! I went to the Urgent care and the doctor prescribed some medication to stop the cough and an inhaler to help me breathe. Went back to work on the 7th and back to Urgent Care on the 9th because I was having a very hard time breathing. They ran a Valley Fever test: Negative. X Rays showed a small spot in one of my lungs. Dr. The doctor said that I probably had walking Pneumonia and I got the treatment . I started feeling better after I finished Zpack , but I am still coughing. Was COVID-19 ? I don't know. Yesterday I was sent home as my place of work started to screen for symptoms . However, my cough started in December. Still have it. Was I spreading something for 3 months? I hope no.

[Nonhlanhla]

66. I wonder about the same thing

I've just recovered from bronchitis that felt quite different from my usual bouts with bronchitis. Started with a weird sudden fever (not too bad, hovering around 100.5-101 for one afternoon and evening), then stomach issues (one of the minor symptoms of COVID), followed by my kid developing a weird cold that made her fever spike for an hour or two - took her to doctor and she tested negative for strep and flu - she developed a mild chest cold. I then developed bronchitis with shortness of breath, dry cough, lungs that are burning, general sweatiness/low grade feverishness, lots of diarrhea. All in all about 4 weeks finally feeling better.

Once they develop a serum test to check for antibodies and this is over, I'll have my blood tested to be sure.

[Act_of_Reparation]

68. Not likely, in my opinion.

COVID-19 seems too infectious to slip under the radar for every long.

[MineralMan]

69. Well, it first got noticed in China.

That's significant, of course. I'm just raising a different question regarding it.

[Act_of_Reparation]

71. I think the epidemiological models also point to China as the point of origin.

Haven't had much time to look at them, though.

But you're right about most common colds being caused by coronaviridae. There's going to be a lot of overlap in symptoms between the different speciecs.

[MineralMan]

78. Yes, it seems so.

It's very important to distinguish between strains of viruses. Most people are only hearing about coronavirus infections just now, and don't realize that that group of viruses have been making people sick for a very long time, indeed.

From what I've read recently, rhinovirus and coronovirus "colds" appear to be prevalent during different seasons. it's all very interesting, but right now, it's also frightening.

[Lulu KC]

72. I keep hearing this--

from people who have family members in nursing homes. A non-flu flu since December. If only we had someone tracking things like this. Data, it's a beautiful thing.

[Amishman]

73. No. No it hasn't

How do I know?

Because other countries have been doing extensive testing. We would have asymptomatic US travellers testing positive elsewhere.

We would be unable to trace most of the infections we have been identifying, as they would have most likely caught it from one of the other 'silent' infected. We have been able to trace the majority, suggesting we know about most of the cases here.

This would also mean this virus is way more contagious than currently calculated. If that were the case, then the quarantine measures that have worked in other countries would have failed.

If you were sick in the past few months you had the flu. This is not the flu.

[Celerity]

155. +10000000000000000

[phylny]

157. You may well be correct, but

my father was deathly ill and tested negative for the flu.

[Amishman]

158. flu tests have a significant false negative rate, particularly on this past winter's strains

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/professionals/diagnosis/clinician_guidance_ridt.htm

Disadvantages

Sub-optimal test sensitivity, false negative results are common, especially when influenza activity is high
Sensitivity of RIDTs to detect influenza B viral antigens is lower than for detection of influenza A viral antigens.

and Influenza B was common this past winter

https://www.medicaleconomics.com/influenza/influenza-b-leading-charge-2020-flu-season

[phylny]

159. Thanks for this information!

[Golden Raisin]

76. I had something similar in January.

Dry, hacking cough and difficulty breathing. A couple of nights in the middle of the night I literally had to get out of bed and stand upright for a few moments to try and breathe normally --- I was sort of gasping for air. Whatever this was lasted about 3 or so weeks. After about a week I would start to feel a bit improved but then it would come back again. This pattern kept repeating. I had gotten my seasonal flu shot earlier this year and just sort of put it down to thinking the flu shot hadn't really worked and this was the flu. It was definitely more than a cold. For some reason I never took my temperature so I don't know for sure if I had a fever but those episodes of having to get out of bed to stand up and breathe were preceded by feeling hot/flushed. By complete coincidence and preplanned much earlier I happened to have my annual physical scheduled and it took place about 2 weeks into whatever this was. I asked the doctor to specifically listen to my lungs and he said they were clean sounding. He also very casually said, when I was describing this, that it would probably last another week or so ---and I got the impression that he was seeing a lot of this in other patients. So who the Hell knows what it was. I'm not saying it was Corona but, in hindsight, am seriously suspicious. And it seems that the initial onset of Coronavirus in the U.S. keeps getting pushed back earlier and earlier.

[EarlG]

77. I came down with something in early February

which was unlike anything I've had before. I didn't take my temperature but it felt like a low fever -- I lay in bed for a day feeling gross and very tired, then developed a dry cough. Felt like I had a lot of crap in my chest that I couldn't cough up. I have mild asthma so I used my albuterol inhaler but it would only relieve the chest congestion for a very brief period before it came back.

This all seemed normal. I've had similar colds before, and although I had a flu shot this year, I understand it's not 100% effective.

What was unusual was that the chest congestion and shortness of breath went on for AGES. After three weeks it still hadn't cleared up, and during this period I felt fatigued and light-headed from time to time, so I went to my doctor, who suggested it was bronchitis and prescribed me a steroid inhaler. (My oxygen was good, and he said he could hear some raspiness in my chest but it wasn't too bad). The steroids helped, but after a week of taking them the chest congestion still hadn't fully cleared up. I'd say it took about five weeks from when I first felt sick before I felt relatively normal again.

About a week after I first came down with this, my son (who had also had a flu shot) also had to take a day off school because he had a low fever and was obviously sick. He was fine after a day or two, but then suddenly started complaining of shortness of breath when he was doing his saxophone practice. He'd never exhibited asthma symptoms before but he was obviously in distress, so I took him to the doctor and they gave him an albuterol inhaler too, which he had to keep using for a week or two because he kept running out of breath. (He's completely fine now.)

So was it COVID-19? Dunno... didn't feel like anything I've had before though. (FWIW I'm assuming that I did NOT have it, and am acting accordingly).

[MineralMan]

83. That's the problem, I think, with a lot of this.

There are so many respiratory illnesses caused by various coronavirus and rhinovirus strains that it's hard to sort it all out, really. The medical profession typically takes viral respiratory illnesses as a matter of course and sends people home with them. There's no testing to identify which virus caused it.

The flu is something quite different. It prostrates almost everyone, and is easy to recognize for most people who have had the flu previously.

Other respiratory illnesses are less easy to identify. Once the COVID-19 virus appeared, with its higher mortality rate, people stared paying attention. But, the other viruses are still around making people sick, too. That does complicate the matter. That we're still not testing everyone who shows up with a viral respiratory illness makes it very difficult to distinguish the cause in an individual patient.

I'm certainly observing all of the cautionary procedures. No question about it. I have no idea what I had earlier, but I sure don't want to get sick again.

Thanks for your description of what you had!

[LanternWaste]

79. I had a slight flu in November.

Now I'm mulling over about telling people "it may have been scarlet fever. You never know, and it's just a thought..."

[MineralMan]

84. ..

[uponit7771]

81. It was going around KC during the superbowl

[LizBeth]

86. January 6 my whole front desk. 5 people myself included. We had a team of three working at our

desk and thru out our building for over a week and at least one had been to China within the last month. I am thinking we got it too. Started with a cough. Never had a cold start with a cough but I assigned my to a cold without the usual stuff nose. The others called it a flu. Three days of really feeling crappy and the cough lingered. Also in the NW so there would have been plenty working in service I came in contact with from Washington and California.

[MineralMan]

87. Interesting...

[Bernardo de La Paz]

88. I bet if you were tested for antibodies you would NOT have covid-19 antibodies

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Anecdotes are not evidence. Your experience is repeated a million times every winter.

I reject your thesis that you got the virus before it was even noticed in China, let alone Washington state.

[MineralMan]

90. You could certainly be correct.

I'd be willing to bet, though, that what I had was caused by a coronavirus strain. I'm not making any claims here. I'm advancing a possibility. There is a difference between possibilities and claims.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

92. There are MANY coronavirus diseases. SARS was one of them. It means nothing in this context. . . nt

[MineralMan]

98. OK...

[Texin]

112. I suspect you're right; however, it wasn't until folks with severe cases

started showing up/being rushed to emergency rooms. The first (known) epicenter was in China, and the illness began to make it onto certain news channels (one of them Twitter - I've been following Max Howroute who began tweeting video clips and info received by a pal(s) living in China back in December). I've known about this virus since then. It really hit home in January as the sheer number of infections began filtering out. The images seen in those videos - all real, not a hoax - were nightmarish. That timeframe coincided with holiday travel, with people making trips back and forth from China and bringing that infection back to wherever they originated, whether here or elsewhere. I think the people presenting with symptoms on the west coast were more likely infected from a traveler returning from that province (or elsewhere???) after the holidays, especially those living in WA. We know, based on firsthand accounts that not everyone has the extreme form of the infection. Based on what I've been reading in the last couple of weeks, even people who seem better after this infection still have virus circulating in their systems, and some who have seemingly recovered do relapse.

[gollygee]

116. Agree

It's too contagious. If people in the US had it in December, our hospitals would be overwhelmed and would have been for a long time. There's no way we wouldn't know that.

This kind of speculation seems irresponsible to me. People might think they've had it and not take proper precautions.

[relayerbob]

89. I agree, the earliest known case in China has been moved to Nov 17

My wife and I got something in early Jan that had the exact symptoms, including, in her case, a fever of 102.

See my post:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/100213115538

[MineralMan]

97. Could be. I'm really just pointing out that we don't know, because

nobody was testing for anything at that time. Now, more people are being tested for COVID-19, so the number of cases is rising quickly. That doesn't mean that more people have suddenly come down with the illness. It just means that we know about more cases, due to more tests being used. Those people were already infected, but hadn't been tested before.

The more tests they do, the more cases they'll discover, so we should expect the numbers to rise very quickly, since they're testing far more people than previously.

The anecdotal evidence is also complicated by the influenza virus still infecting people and causing similar symptoms. So, if you have a fever, a cough, and aches, it could be COVID-19 or the flu. There is a test for the flu, so that can be detected relatively easily. Now, with COVID-19 tests being administered to more people, we'll know more. Whichever thing you have, though, you're sick.

[relayerbob]

109. Yep, and the tests don't identify past cases, AFAIK

[MineralMan]

110. I imagine there will be a test for antibodies.

It's not a priority item, though, right now.

[relayerbob]

126. YEs, eventually. I just saw a report that they have isolated the antibodies

for the first time, very recently

[MineralMan]

127. Good. All of those things take time.

Too bad Trump deliberately stalled early on.

[relayerbob]

132. Yes, the problem is far less the disease than 45's ineptness

The economic freakout that he caused is going to have much more of an effect than the virus

[matt819]

91. I think you may be right

Spouse was in Florida in early Feb, came home sick. Exhausted, coughing, trouble breathing, felt like she was subject to extra gravity she just felt "weighed down." I know better after so many years that I only reluctantly asked if she wanted to go to the doctor. She didn't. By the time it passed, COVIC-19 was in the news.

As you ask, was it? Don't know. But it has crossed our minds.

On the subject of the virus. I just saw that there's a case in Greenland and 3 in French Polynesia. I would think an awful lot could be learned from how people in such remote locations have the virus. And, equally curious, how were they tested?

[Cary]

93. That would mean we have some immunity

I hope you're right.

[jmbar2]

96. Several friends had it - referred to it as a "zombie" cold

They thought they were done with it, then it would come roaring back.

One was a nurse at an Oregon university where a lot of Chinese students came back sick after the Christmas break. They isolated them all in one part of the clinic. The other was a friend in Salem, OR.

They all recovered, but said that it was a truly miserable cold/flu. Happened during Jan-Feb.

[LizBeth]

101. Out of our five we had one were she felt better and then came back too.

I didn't have a thermometer so I do not know I had a slight fever, but felt like it. Two had fever. But we are in Eugene. One often going to Salem. We are across from the University and had lots of Chinese students come in after Christmas break.

[jmbar2]

107. The folks I knew were also Eugene and Salem

Interesting...

[LizBeth]

114. It is. I like how gov and mayor are handling the crisis. But, we are not showing any tested

cases here in Lane Co which is surprising to me. All over Oregon, but not here. I find that incredible. I also heard until just recently we had no testing kits so that might be a reason. I also heard that the hospital was down to a skeleton crew because hospital overwhelmed but I have gotten no info on that. And it is a known story teller, lol. I have someone in medical I haven't chatted with. I am just surprised we have no cases here as of late last night.

[jmbar2]

120. I am assuming it's here and acting accordingly.

I'm on the coast, among the retirees. Haven't seen anything here yet, but folks are taking it VERY seriously. No one is going outside except for necessities.

Take care and keep us posted on what's happening there.

[LizBeth]

124. Here is a map I am looking at. Not seeing it on the coast.

https://kval.com/news/local/map-track-coronavirus-covid-19-cases-in-oregon

[jmbar2]

131. Thanks - I hadn't seen that yet.

[Susan Calvin]

99. I had something similar, but

This started in mid February. It never involved any respiratory symptoms or a fever higher than 99 point something. But it sure did involve being tired. Exhausted. Virtually unable to get out of bed for more than a few minutes at a time and that a real strain.

It started with pretty bad muscle aches, but they went away quickly except for some residual. I soldiered on for a couple of days even though I didn't feel the best, and then on the third day after the muscle aches Wham. I basically hardly got out of bed for two weeks. It's the sickest I've ever been in my life.

Tested negative for flu but they gave me Tamiflu anyway. May have helped a very little bit. After a week they gave me super antibiotics even though I didn't have a fever. I never had a fever after they gave me the Tamiflu. And then only ninety-nine point something. Maybe the antibiotics helped, I don't know. They were throwing stuff at it to see what would stick.

I had blood tests after I'd been sick a week and all it showed was kidney problems, which is understandable considering that keeping hydrated wasn't exactly high on my list that first week. Being asleep was.

Anyway, I put it out here for what it's worth. I've never had anything like that and I've never been that sick in my life. I'm still not really over it 100%.

[Jrsygrl96]

102. Thank you!

My family thinks I'm crazy. Mid-January I fought off a flu-like thing for a couple days until it took me down. Felt sort of like the flu but did not have the aches and pains. I had a fever, a dry cough and complete exhaustion. I was short of breath and used my husband's inhaler and nebulizer. It started on a Wednesday, and lasted about 8 days. But neither my husband or daughter got sick, so they say it could not have been COVID-19.

[PunksMom]

111. I have to add my own story about this

Weirdly,February 11th I started feeling “weirdly sick”, but was sitting with my mom, who was on her deathbed. She passed the next day, and by then,I could not even help my sister plan for her funeral. It hit that quick, and that furious. In no time, so many that we came in contact with, we falling ill as well, I mean like wildfire. A few of us are of the conviction that we had what is going around now. It took me a month for my lungs to clear, I’m an asthmatic. I had the fever, aches, sore throat, and the shortness of breath, but attributed that to the asthma. Like others in here, it was so “different” that any ailment I had.

[Nay]

117. Interesting, because I told Mr Nay that I wondered whether I had already had COVID

after coming home from Florida at the end of January. I had what you experienced, PLUS I was very tired. It took 2 or 3 days to go away. I thought it was some sort of random plane-flight virus that my body threw off quickly, but now I'm not so sure. I wish there was a test to see if we already had it once! I'd love to know

[JenniferJuniper]

122. The worst "flu" I have had

turned out to Lyme disease.

There is so much nasty stuff out there..

[MineralMan]

125. Yes, it can be confusing without tests.

It's too bad testing did not begin in the USA earlier. It's just now rolling out in adequate numbers.

[JenniferJuniper]

129. Exactly...

part of the problem with Lyme is that the tests only show positive within a small window. There was no doubt in my case, so I will always know exactly what caused that devastating illness that is still affecting me to this day.

Right now, the lack of tests is causing insanity. My sister is an RN in an urban hospital. She has been working on a floor with a large number of "flu" patients. She has convinced herself she has Corona. I think she has my niece's cold.

But we can't know. She has no access to testing. She doesn't even have a properly fitted mask.

And that orange imbecile continues to congratulate himself.

[greytdemocrat]

128. My wife and I...

Had something very similar about the
same time...

[RobinA]

130. I Have No Idea

who had what when, but my money is on antibody testing, if it is done, will show a lot more people with antibodies than ever turned up sick with Corona.

[Hortensis]

133. China officially notified the WHO December 31. That's

after various backfiring Trump-like tactics and when they gave up trying to keep it secret.

[MineralMan]

134. Yeah, I remember that.

Meanwhile, folks are flying back and forth, to and from China. Folks are getting products from China via Amazon. It's a small world these days.

And governments always, always try to cover up bad news until they can't any longer.

And there it is, once again.

[Hortensis]

135. Among the many things we won't know is who actually

died of COVID-19 early on and not of whatever was diagnosed.

Under the circumstances, though, congrats on surviving whatever it was.

[MineralMan]

140. It was a rather mild illness. I remember it because it was different.

Back in November and December, nobody paid any attention to air travel between China and the US, and there was a lot of it. I started another thread that shows routes being flown between the two countries. There were even non-stop flights from Wuhan to NYC on one airline. Lots of business going on.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100213116713

[Hortensis]

143. Those maps really say it, don't they? At that they're just direct

to one point in the U.S. and don't include other flights of travelers boxing the globe in their work. An illustration for why, even though epidemiologists stop many pandemics at their sources, eventually some they can't block have to be stopped at their first incidences here. And were before Trump-McConnell.

[RhodeIslandOne]

136. I agree

I think it's been festering wherever it came from since early in 2019 and in this country since late last fall.

A lot of people diagnosed and dying with "the flu" might have had this.

That MIGHT be a slight positive in this whole thing, because the idea it spread like wildfire only in a few months is much more frightening.

[blm]

137. Elizabeth Warren put out Coronavirus plans in January.

She addressed the immediate need for public health action and the need to address what would be a certain hit on the economy.

She also submitted a bill in the senate.

She was ignored.

[Takket]

139. wow.... I had the same thing.........

around the same time........ actually i remember it was Christmas week because i get that whole week off and i was ticked i was sick! I had a cough and some wheezing. it was not horrible. i've had much worse. the cough hung on for like a week and i had a bit of fever for like a day. but no sore throat and i remember it being the most weak stuffy nose i ever had. i was a little stuffy for like one day. i literally blew my nose one time.

my wife, who has a weakened immune system and asthma caught it and it knocked her on her ASS for about ten days. it was flu like, coughing, loss of appetite.

it was a very strange "cold" since with most colds they start in my throat and the infection "moves around" from throat to nose and fever, and rarely do things get "into my chest" but this one started there.

[WhiteTara]

144. In mid December, an art buyer came to our house

after he returned from Maylasia for holidays. His brother in law came to their gathering from Hebei province. He had been back in the US for almost 2 weeks and on his way back from the west coast where he had flown in from, he was quite ill. He stayed at our house for a couple of hours and spent most of his time with MR. WT. A few days/maybe a week later we were both sick. I was well within about a week, but he was sick for 2 months. Very weak, high fever, deep pain in his lungs. He was diagnosed with an unspecified respiratory viral infection and he spent about one month actually in bed because he was too sick to stand.

[MineralMan]

145. Wow!

[WhiteTara]

146. I think the virus has been around for at least 3 months.

The same guy and his wife stayed at one of the hotels in town and they ate at a couple of restaurants and that same week, a friend who was a server at one of the nicer restaurants got sick, passed it around through the community (Mr WT and I live in the country and self-isolation is pretty much a way of life) but another friend, who lives in town, told me today that she has been to the clinic for unspecified respiratory tract infection, so the same illness is circulating in a community of about 2000 people for 3 or 4 months.

[MineralMan]

149. Interesting.

[bearsfootball516]

151. Wouldn't surprise me.

My boss came down with a nasty cold that cling to him all January. Had an awful cough and just felt miserable the whole time. He’s now wondering if he actually had COVID-19.

[2naSalit]

152. Ever since hearing about this strain, I started wondering about

a respiratory illness my friend and I had in Feb. 2019. We went to a tourist town that sees a huge flow of Chinese tourists, we didn't know but much of town was ill with it. Nobody knew what it was. My friend and I were there only a few hours and woke up very sick the next day with all the same symptoms of covid19. The fever lasted a couple days and the coughing lasted weeks. My friend, much younger, was just as sick as I was... I'm in my early 60s. But we picked it up together and had only been to a couple establishments, and then, the whole town had been seeing it for at least a week.

That the town is flush with Asian tourists much of the year could be a connection. Though, as I say, we had it in late Feb 2019... could have been circulating for a while longer than we think or some possible relative of it. I'm not looking forward to getting anything like that or worse ever. For the most part we fed on chicken soup, some pastries and two package of alkaseltzer cold remedy and to packages of mucinex. After four days we were well enough to travel, two hours to the airport for she said she kept her face covered on the flight, I had another hour's drive home after that. I went to the doctor the next day and was given antibiotics but they didn't do anything for it. I stopped having coughing attacks after three weeks. And went through another box of alkaseltzer but since I was home I used some of my natural fixes and that helped a lot. It's hard to be that sick and not at home.

Just thought I'd add that since it could be relevant.

[mercuryblues]

153. I was hit with the same thing in Nov, last year

I chalked it up to a bad cold. It was the worst cold I ever had. A lot of family and friends were complaining of the same cold. I had no contact with them, so it wasn't spreading among us. As a matter of fact, people I did have contact with, didn't get it.

During that time, I attended a funeral for a friend. She died suddenly from pneumonia. She had been in the hospital the month before and was discharged. She had just come home from shopping and starting gasping for air. By the time Emt's got there she had died. The autopsy showed she had Pneumonia. During this time I had no contact with her.

I spent 2 days in a car with my brother. I was handling his phone, GPS, radio and opening bottles of water for him, while he was driving. He didn't even get a sniffle.

[BlkOrchid58]

162. Is this a similar situation like the Spanish Flu that lasted from January 1818 to December 1919?

With the Spanish Flu, there were three waves, with the mildest one beginning in January of 1818. It seems that there was something similar going around in the fall of 2019. (I live in one of the US territories, and there were many cruise ships and also visitors who traveled by air to the islands around that time. Many locals also traveled to and from the territory.) I was affected by whatever was going around at the time, and I was using over-the-counter medicines for the first week, but they did not seem to work as usual. I had a slight fever and a very raw, burning sensation in my throat like Strep throat, so I bought some Chloraseptic spray. Believing that it was a normal cold or flu, I purchased some Theraflu on November 21, 2019, along with Hall's cough drops. This combination seemed to bring me some relief, but I had a lingering dry cough for at least two more weeks after.

At the time I was also taking public transportation while my car was in the shop. I recall that there was a man sitting behind me with an incessant cough, and it seemed as though he might die coughing. A few of my coworkers and some of the children in schools reportedly were coughing quite a bit around the same time. It would be good to know if anyone has antibodies from that "flu" event.

Now, as in the second wave of the Spanish flu, COV ID19 has come on with a vengeance, and many of our fellow Americans have lost their lives. I wonder if this is because the virus may have had more time to mutate than we really know.

[MineralMan]

163. It would be interesting to see a chart of respiratory disease deaths

for 2019, to see if there was some sort of surge in the fall of that year.

On the other hand, it could easily have been a different strain of coronavirus that cause the weird colds we had. That's probably the case, actually. Related, but not the same.

The clue will be if those of us who had it show antibodies to the current strain when tested. I'll be taking that antibody test when it's easily available, just out of interest. Hopefully, I won't catch this strain before then.

[BlkOrchid58]

164. I agree about the antibody testing. It would certainly explain a lot if we were able to get tested.

Even if it was a different strain, it is worth investigating because those who may have been affected may already have antibodies. All of that data would be useful. I hope we can get to that point soon. Some respiratory therapists, as many others in the medical field, are baffled about the way some people are asymptomatic and are spreading the virus just as much as those who have outward symptoms.

Aside from looking at age brackets, underlying conditions, race and other common factors, it would be good to compare the time lines of those patients who have recovered to those who remain hospitalized or who died as a result of disease. There are so many unanswered questions.